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United States47024 Posts
On August 17 2009 04:58 Holgerius wrote:
No, it doesn't really matter how you define S-class. Flash, Jaedong and Bisu are clearly one class above Fantasy, so if Fantasy is defined as S-class we have to come up with a new word for what they are.
Read what I wrote more carefully. The OP put Leta, Effort, and Skyhigh in the S-class category. I agree that Fantasy is below Flash, Jaedong, and Bisu, but if Leta, Effort, and Skyhigh are in the S-class category, doesn't Fantasy deserve to be there too?
As GTR says, each person puts the bar somewhere different. There's nothing that makes your way objectively right, or theirs objectively wrong.
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Braavos36402 Posts
you really should take only statistics over the past year
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On August 17 2009 06:20 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2009 04:58 Holgerius wrote:
No, it doesn't really matter how you define S-class. Flash, Jaedong and Bisu are clearly one class above Fantasy, so if Fantasy is defined as S-class we have to come up with a new word for what they are. Read what I wrote more carefully. The OP put Leta, Effort, and Skyhigh in the S-class category. I agree that Fantasy is below Flash, Jaedong, and Bisu, but if Leta, Effort, and Skyhigh are in the S-class category, doesn't Fantasy deserve to be there too? As GTR says, each person puts the bar somewhere different. There's nothing that makes your way objectively right, or theirs objectively wrong.
None of Leta, Effort or Fantasy are S-class. They're all somewhere between the three S-class players and the A-class players.
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Stork is definately S class in pvp pvt just his pvz not there yet
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On August 17 2009 06:42 SkelA wrote:
Stork is definately S class in pvp pvt he just his pvz not there yet
Stork is just having confidence issue at the moment, I am sure that he'll bounce back.
I think the best way to describe an 'S-class' player is that he have to be the best in a certain matchups. For example, Jaedong is a S-Class for Z vs Z. So in turn, we can get 9 'S-class' players in total (of course, one player can be S-class in more than 1 MUs).
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On August 16 2009 21:35 okum wrote:
a lot of shit
you, my friend, are an idiot.
+ Show Spoiler +
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S class = top 10 kespa period
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When you want to compare statistics, just compare statistics. Weather or not a player is considered S-class just depends on weather most people think they are, it's a different sort of metric but it's still interesting/important. I don't see the need to quantify it.
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On August 17 2009 06:56 iD.NicKy wrote:
S class = top 10 kespa period
Guyz, Luxury was S-class last month.
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I really dislike how you seemingly just came up with an abitrary definition of 60% win rate. There are a lot of factors to include. I know you said it was just a rough arbitrary number, but I don't think you can place numbers on these at ALL.
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On August 17 2009 06:55 Heimatloser wrote:you, my friend, are an idiot. + Show Spoiler +
I bow to you.
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Defining it by ELO is much better, as ELO >>>> winrates, win % etc as it takes into account opponent strength.
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On August 17 2009 06:42 SkelA wrote:
Stork is definately S class in pvp pvt just his pvz not there yet
stork is nowhere near any of the players mentioned recently, look at his ELO.
edit: Stork is at the bottom of the A-class right now, if even that. That's more than just a PvZ problem, that's just an overall weak player compared to the players previously mentioned.
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On August 16 2009 21:59 Ver wrote:
You can't do this by stats though. i,e
Leta is not S class in anything.
Fantasy is S class TvZ.
If you go by stats you have people like Leta/Skyhigh grouped with Fantasy lol.
Basically it's pretty obvious when someone is S class overall (the top 5) or has an S class matchup (Yarnc/July). Kinda like being a bonjwa. You just are.
Are you kidding me?? When Leta wins he absolutely DESTROYS his opponents, its not even close and he just abuses them. When he loses he gets demolished and doesnt do a single thing right though. BUT his TVT and TVZ are by far S class!!!! Like someone already said 6-7 against JD?! Yeah ok thats not S class. I think beating JD once should make you a fucking mogul in the eyes of any SC fan.
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On August 17 2009 07:35 GreEny K wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2009 21:59 Ver wrote:
You can't do this by stats though. i,e
Leta is not S class in anything.
Fantasy is S class TvZ.
If you go by stats you have people like Leta/Skyhigh grouped with Fantasy lol.
Basically it's pretty obvious when someone is S class overall (the top 5) or has an S class matchup (Yarnc/July). Kinda like being a bonjwa. You just are. Are you kidding me?? When Leta wins he absolutely DESTROYS his opponents, its not even close and he just abuses them. When he loses he gets demolished and doesnt do a single thing right though. BUT his TVT and TVZ are by far S class!!!! Like someone already said 6-7 against JD?! Yeah ok thats not S class. I think beating JD once should make you a fucking mogul in the eyes of any SC fan.
So tester and rock are bonjwas?
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i agree with all ppl saying this shuold limit to a year past (like KeSPA)
The arbitrary ranking system should be how a player play his game, sick micro/macro, decision, etc. (like the GOM point's system)
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On August 16 2009 22:28 StalkerSC wrote:
Is this by Elo, KeSPA rankings or just some stupid thing you made up? You don't think Stork and Jangbi are S?
since when is jangbi s lol. i'll give you stork but jangbi really?
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On August 17 2009 07:22 FabledIntegral wrote:
I really dislike how you seemingly just came up with an abitrary definition of 60% win rate. There are a lot of factors to include. I know you said it was just a rough arbitrary number, but I don't think you can place numbers on these at ALL.
If I make a list of players sorted by their win rate in a given matchup, it will correspond fairly well to how I would rank their skills subjectively. If I draw the line between the players I consider S-class and not S-class, that line ends up somewhere around 60%. Sure, there are many factors involved, but skill strongly correlates with win rate (I disagree about not being able to place numbers on this at all).
The justification is that the difference between being a 55% and 65% player really is huge, and not an arbitrary fluke. As I said, I'd be interested in quantifying this difference based on the players' win rate distribution, but I can't be arsed to write a TLPD scraper (let alone copy stats by hand). There are better ways to quantify skill than using such a crude measure as the total win rate; the win rate is mainly interesting because it's such a simple and convenient statistic.
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On August 17 2009 07:35 GreEny K wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2009 21:59 Ver wrote:
You can't do this by stats though. i,e
Leta is not S class in anything.
Fantasy is S class TvZ.
If you go by stats you have people like Leta/Skyhigh grouped with Fantasy lol.
Basically it's pretty obvious when someone is S class overall (the top 5) or has an S class matchup (Yarnc/July). Kinda like being a bonjwa. You just are. Are you kidding me?? When Leta wins he absolutely DESTROYS his opponents, its not even close and he just abuses them. When he loses he gets demolished and doesnt do a single thing right though. BUT his TVT and TVZ are by far S class!!!! Like someone already said 6-7 against JD?! Yeah ok thats not S class. I think beating JD once should make you a fucking mogul in the eyes of any SC fan.
Leta is not 6-7 against JD. 6-7 is a record I could respect. Unfortunately, Leta is an atrocious 0-6 against JD, which is why I laugh at anyone who claims Leta's TvZ to be S-class. S-class isn't just about rolling noobs, it's about hanging with the best.
To me Fantasy is sitting on the fence between A-class and S-class; to me he's the only player close to breaking into the elite Flash/JD/Bisu club (as Stork once did).
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since we're using arbitrary statistics anyways, how bout we at least use an simple one like top 5 ELO or something
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EPT
