News - Strelok Replay shown

On July 04 2009 14:47 Jonoman92 wrote:
That game wasn't as close as I thought it was going to be. Strelok had a pretty big advantage imo. Having a 20-30 supply lead in TvP is generally pretty decisive and I doubt Fenix would be able to hold his bases against the soon to come push. Or Strelok could just take his half of the map and sit.

On July 04 2009 15:36 IdrA wrote:
his tank count wasnt high enough to absorb storms and roll anyway, he couldnt attack anytime soon and fenix's economy was alot better. strelok was 3 base but his scv count wasnt good and fenix was about to hit 5 base. fenix had something like 8-9 gate vs 6 fac too. strelok had just started a vessel and was about to take his fourth and was only 1-1, he was just gonna turtle and wait for grades and a vessel fleet, giving fenix's better economy and arbiters time to kick in, turning it into a normal desti pvt stalemate and it all comes down to how well recalls do. theres no way to call that game for either player. you cant just look at the supplies. ya if strelok had his 170 army set up outside fenix's base the game would be over, but he isnt able to do anything with his supply advantage so its pretty irrelevant at that point in the game.

and given that i hate fenix and he tried to disc artosis with spam bots during tsl i dont see how anyone can be claiming bias here

On July 04 2009 15:39 ViruX wrote:
YOUR GOING TO VISIT GRRR

On July 04 2009 15:36 IdrA wrote:

his tank count wasnt high enough to absorb storms and roll anyway, he couldnt attack anytime soon and fenix's economy was alot better. strelok was 3 base but his scv count wasnt good and fenix was about to hit 5 base. fenix had something like 8-9 gate vs 6 fac too. strelok had just started a vessel and was about to take his fourth and was only 1-1, he was just gonna turtle and wait for grades and a vessel fleet, giving fenix's better economy and arbiters time to kick in, turning it into a normal desti pvt stalemate and it all comes down to how well recalls do. theres no way to call that game for either player. you cant just look at the supplies. ya if strelok had his 170 army set up outside fenix's base the game would be over, but he isnt able to do anything with his supply advantage so its pretty irrelevant at that point in the game.

and given that i hate fenix and he tried to disc artosis with spam bots during tsl i dont see how anyone can be claiming bias here

On July 04 2009 20:46 Strelok. wrote:
So now according to precendent rule, after having disadvantage which is not critical, i can always disc from game and claim regame. Let's see how it works.

On July 04 2009 20:53 Itachii wrote:

next time be a fucking man and take the re, this whole drama is really unnecessary.

On July 04 2009 20:46 Strelok. wrote:
So now according to precendent rule, after having disadvantage which is not critical, i can always disc from game and claim regame. Let's see how it works.

On July 04 2009 20:46 Strelok. wrote:
So now according to precendent rule, after having disadvantage which is not critical, i can always disc from game and claim regame. Let's see how it works.

On July 04 2009 20:53 Itachii wrote:

next time be a fucking man and take the re, this whole drama is really unnecessary.

On July 04 2009 21:52 Chosi wrote:


this is what my browser tells me when I click that Video. Still gonna watch it but ...

On July 04 2009 16:51 Raithed wrote:

grr has been interviewed before by koreans.

On July 05 2009 00:15 ZeitgeistMovie wrote:
Pretty sure when Nony played F91, it was a similar situation. Nony had advantage, but he wasn't outside F91's base or anything, he was mostly at his base defending and making his third vs F91 3 bases, yet Nony was given the win. Same situation here. IMO, everyone is just going where the wind blows. If Artosis were to say that Strelok was surely going to push out and win, everyone would be like "yeah, yeah."

On July 05 2009 00:15 ZeitgeistMovie wrote:
Pretty sure when Nony played F91, it was a similar situation. Nony had advantage, but he wasn't outside F91's base or anything, he was mostly at his base defending and making his third vs F91 3 bases, yet Nony was given the win. Same situation here. IMO, everyone is just going where the wind blows. If Artosis were to say that Strelok was surely going to push out and win, everyone would be like "yeah, yeah."

On July 04 2009 20:46 Strelok. wrote:
So now according to precendent rule, after having disadvantage which is not critical, i can always disc from game and claim regame. Let's see how it works.

On July 05 2009 01:00 Rekrul wrote:
but then some righteous asshole like me might come around and make sure you are banned from all sc1 and sc2 competitions

On July 04 2009 20:46 Strelok. wrote:
So now according to precendent rule, after having disadvantage which is not critical, i can always disc from game and claim regame. Let's see how it works.

On July 05 2009 00:50 Liquid`NonY wrote:


F91 gave me the win

About the Strelok/Fenix game: I think the key thing there is that Strelok would only have a big advantage if he was in position. He can't just move all his shit down and siege up. If there was a push going, then it would seem that Terran would have a good chance to hit his timing. But what we see in the replay is a Protoss with a great chance to defend his half of the map long enough to let Arbiter tech kick in and finish off a Terran whose timing failed.

On July 05 2009 02:59 ZeitgeistMovie wrote:



Strelok could have pushed any second after the disconnect (if the disconnect didn't happen). He said he was waiting for 180 supply to push, and Arbiter had no energy for anything, only 2 high temps, and maybe 160 supply (he needs a maxed army stop the push) for Fenix when Strelok starts pushing. Fenix's bases at 7 and 8 o'clock (which wasn't even mining) would have been taken out, Strelok's reinforcement from his 6 factories would have ended it. Replaying the game would not be fair because they are fighting for $1000, and Strelok shouldn't have to beat Fenix one more time just because Fenix disconnected. And the guy had had a history of fucking around in tournaments with large prizes, like TSL, as Artosis himself pointed out. Strelok decided to leave the tournament in protest of the unprofessional conduct of the tournament officials. I haven't heard Tasteless, Daniel, Lipton or anyone else from the tournament step up and admit fault, everyone is just trying to ignore SDM final decision.

On July 05 2009 01:00 Rekrul wrote:


yeah

i guess you could

but then some self-important asshole like me might come around and make sure you are banned from all sc1 and sc2 competitions

wouldn't that be awesome

On July 05 2009 02:59 ZeitgeistMovie wrote:



Strelok could have pushed any second after the disconnect (if the disconnect didn't happen). He said he was waiting for 180 supply to push, and Arbiter had no energy for anything, only 2 high temps, and maybe 160 supply (he needs a maxed army stop the push) for Fenix when Strelok starts pushing. Fenix's bases at 7 and 8 o'clock (which wasn't even mining) would have been taken out, Strelok's reinforcement from his 6 factories would have ended it.

Replaying the game would not be fair because they are fighting for $1000, and Strelok shouldn't have to beat Fenix one more time just because Fenix disconnected. And the guy had had a history of fucking around in tournaments with large prizes, like TSL, as Artosis himself pointed out. Strelok decided to leave the tournament in protest of the unprofessional conduct of the tournament officials. I haven't heard Tasteless, Daniel, Lipton or anyone else from the tournament step up and admit fault, everyone is just trying to ignore SDM final decision

On July 04 2009 16:38 HuskyTheHusky wrote:
Holy snap I actually agree with something IdrA says for once.

It was definitely the right call not to give a win to either party as I think it would have still been a pretty close game TBH.

On July 05 2009 04:33 ZeitgeistMovie wrote:
I'm interested to hear day[9]'s opinion on this. He thought Nony should get the win (and he did) when someone DC'ed during Liquibiton. This is a very similar situation. See if he sticks to his guns.

Most likely what happened was Artosis felt sorry that Fenix didn't know much english and had no contacts, therefore he decided to punish Strelok for knowing english doing the right thing and contacting Lipton/SDM about the issue.

" I think if Idra or Nony say that strelok didn't have a decisive advantage that it's probably pretty likely they're right."

And they are also members of Media and friends of Artosis, and it only makes sense for them to support Artosis. Maybe we should ask White_ra and BRAT_OK and see what they think also?

On July 05 2009 04:45 SmokeMaxX wrote:
Wow at conspiracy theory.

1) I don't know the Liquibiton game you're talking about (or whatever), but how similar are the two games? This seems like a fairly unique situation where one person arguably has an advantage, but it's not exactly crystal clear and there are still areas where very efficient army management has to take place. I mean in FBH vs. Flash, Flash lost what? 6-8 tanks for no reason?

2) So they have a positive relationship with Artosis = automatically supporting Artosis, but them having a negative relationship with Fenix = ...them helping Fenix?

It's obvious the game had to be replayed, regardless of anything. I can't speak for Strelok, but I imagine if any reasonable gamer played in an important tournament, had their internet die, examine the replay, and discover that they were barely behind in a game that they still had a pretty good chance to win, they would be pissed if they were awarded a loss for it. What precedent would it start if the "Final Decision" was finalized?

It's even worse than "Oh no, I can just disconnect when I'm losing to hopefully replay." It'd lead to "Hmm, I'm barely ahead but if I disconnect, I'll get the win."

On July 05 2009 05:15 machinehead.. wrote:

When you do nothing wrong, but yet feel "punished," it is just something that shouldn't happen.

On July 05 2009 05:15 machinehead.. wrote:
I don't think it is fair to the person who has the advantage (especially if he didn't disconnect) to have the game replayed; Instead, if possible, the game should be "resumed." In other words, 2 people should get together and try to replicate this game as best as possible, and then save the game and upload the file. Yes, count how many units each has, how many building facilities they have, how many resources left at the main/nat, how many probes are situated at each expo, etc.

Given the time of this disconnect and what was going on, it didn't look like the gamers were surprised by much, ie., strelok knew fenix was making an arb (started making a vessel), knew where his expos where, etc. So...if anyone were to possibly gain something from this (having seen the replay), I think it would be fenix. But with that said, I think strelok would rather try to resume this game than have his withdrawal stand, and I think "fans" would like that too.

Whether having this game be replayed is more fair than awarding a player with a win for this game, it DOES start a bad precedence, something that could easily be abused in the future -- players just disconnecting when they get into an unfavorable situation, but they know it isn't decisive enough to be ruled against. Even if the player isn't intentionally abusing, which I doubt happened here, the bottom line is that it isn't fair to the player who has the advantage.

When you do nothing wrong, but yet feel "punished," it is just something that shouldn't happen. Hopefully that can start to happen less in SC than it is now.

On July 05 2009 05:29 SchOOl_VicTIm wrote:
Hey, didn't someone recently make an application where you can get a save file from the replay? Wouldn't that allow them to continue playing the game normally?

On July 05 2009 05:15 machinehead.. wrote:
I don't think it is fair to the person who has the advantage (especially if he didn't disconnect) to have the game replayed; Instead, if possible, the game should be "resumed." In other words, 2 people should get together and try to replicate this game as best as possible, and then save the game and upload the file. Yes, count how many units each has, how many building facilities they have, how many resources left at the main/nat, how many probes are situated at each expo, etc.

Given the time of this disconnect and what was going on, it didn't look like the gamers were surprised by much, ie., strelok knew fenix was making an arb (started making a vessel), knew where his expos where, etc. So...if anyone were to possibly gain something from this (having seen the replay), I think it would be fenix. But with that said, I think strelok would rather try to resume this game than have his withdrawal stand, and I think "fans" would like that too.

Whether having this game be replayed is more fair than awarding a player with a win for this game, it DOES start a bad precedence, something that could easily be abused in the future -- players just disconnecting when they get into an unfavorable situation, but they know it isn't decisive enough to be ruled against. Even if the player isn't intentionally abusing, which I doubt happened here, the bottom line is that it isn't fair to the player who has the advantage.

When you do nothing wrong, but yet feel "punished," it is just something that shouldn't happen. Hopefully that can start to happen less in SC than it is now.

On July 05 2009 05:49 soudo wrote:


Aren't you supposed to be banned?

On July 05 2009 05:59 koreasilver wrote:

That's the most unrealistic, stupid thing I've read in this entire thread.

On July 05 2009 05:56 machinehead.. wrote:
I would have to think that in a lot of tourneys, if they can determine who disconnected, it is an auto loss to begin with, simply to avoid these kind of situations. With the exception being, when it is just clear as day who would win, regardless of who disconnected. To me, being someone who plays both sides of this matchup, I feel it would be more unjust to replay this game from scratch than to award someone a win for it. Having a psi advantage at that time in the game and toss not having many probes mining, that is just ideal.

I realize trying to replicate this game could be time consuming, but I feel it is doable, at least to a degree where both players can agree to it. Only reason Fenix wouldn't is due to not wanting to be in an unfavorable situation again.. I say you just subtract the units that were about to die -- 2 tanks, 2 vults and a drop ship, and toss was about to lose 2 or so goons. You make the apt amount of units, you have around the same amount of workers, and you go from there. From what I gather, Fenix can afford to lose this game (up 1-0), so it wouldn't be a travesty to do something like this as it wouldn't be the deciding game of the series. It would probably be more "wrong" to do so if that was the case.

On July 04 2009 20:46 Strelok. wrote:
So now according to precendent rule, after having disadvantage which is not critical, i can always disc from game and claim regame. Let's see how it works.

On July 05 2009 01:17 Zzoram wrote:


There we go, TL didn't award Nony a win, F91 did.

We all know how easy it is for bad positioning to ruin a Terran when Storms are out at any time ever.

On July 05 2009 06:56 ZeitgeistMovie wrote:
Yeah, the analysis by Artosis in itself was bias. He kept talking about Fenix had these "huge" forces around the map (which usually contained 2 dragoons and a few zealots). Fenix had a 4th with idle probes, and a 5th that was useless. Fenix had really only 1 base mining, with 20 less pop, NO arbiters, no storm, no nothing. Yet Strelok was only slightly ahead. ROFL. Any unbiased idiot can see Strelok taking this. Sure, anything can happen, but guess what, nothing happened because Fenix DCed.

Strelok had a better econ, better army, bigger army, he's a better player, yet the game needs to be replayed because Fenix DCed...SDM had it right all along.

On July 05 2009 06:56 ZeitgeistMovie wrote:
Yeah, the analysis by Artosis in itself was bias. He kept talking about Fenix had these "huge" forces around the map (which usually contained 2 dragoons and a few zealots). Fenix had a 4th with idle probes, and a 5th that was useless. Fenix had really only 1 base mining, with 20 less pop, NO arbiters, no storm, no nothing. Yet Strelok was only slightly ahead. ROFL. Any unbiased idiot can see Strelok taking this. Sure, anything can happen, but guess what, nothing happened because Fenix DCed.

Strelok had a better econ, better army, bigger army, he's a better player, yet the game needs to be replayed because Fenix DCed...SDM had it right all along.

On July 05 2009 08:14 Crunchums wrote:
What happens if OSL is going on and bnet crashes?

On July 05 2009 07:14 Sadist wrote:


actually no.....strelok could easily fuck up from there. Its not as if he was at fenix's base already. Arbiter was going to come out in ~ 15-30 seconds

just because hes a "better" player you cant give him the win there rofl. Theres a reason the games are played.

On July 05 2009 08:21 QuickStriker wrote:


They use LAN pal....

On July 05 2009 09:18 ZeitgeistMovie wrote:


WTH you talking about, Fenix is as likely or MORE likely to fuck up. He could of accidently drag a mine and kill 5 zealots. That is why we should judge who wins from the last second of the replay, and not from all the hypotheticals like "Stelok could mess up" . Strelok has advantage at the end of replay so he should get the win.

On July 05 2009 09:18 ZeitgeistMovie wrote:


WTH you talking about, Fenix is as likely or MORE likely to fuck up. He could of accidently drag a mine and kill 5 zealots. That is why we should judge who wins from the last second of the replay, and not from all the hypotheticals like "Stelok could mess up" . Strelok has advantage at the end of replay so he should get the win.

On July 05 2009 08:14 Crunchums wrote:
What happens if OSL is going on and bnet crashes?

On July 05 2009 06:44 mO.Palantir wrote:
Anf of course anything can happen ever...but if the better player is in a (clear) lead...one can asume he will win?