EPTLeeJaeDong Interview! - Page 2
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AloneInDaBunker
Korea (South)123 Posts
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RamenStyle
United States1929 Posts
On December 25 2008 02:00 AloneInDaBunker wrote: TL is blessed with quality korean translators. I couldn't have translated this article better than how Ramen translated it. gj Thx, but we just try to follow up the steps of the guys who bring us all the real quality stuff every week. I'm always thankful for the VODs, articles and follow ups the staff does, so I guess we mere normal posters just try to chip in whenever we can. Credit goes to risingdragoon to. On topic, I always try to use the "odd" units when I play just for fun(which is always, since I can't play competitively due to how much I suck) and I always wondered why they didn't give more use to the micro-intensive ones. I mean, me I can understand. Pro's who go up to 400 apm, I'm sure they could make the effort and spare 30 apm for some little DA, Queen or Ghost partying. Just to give an example, when Much played JD on the Arena MSL, he maelstormed JD's mutas. Shame he hadn't any storms left, because he would have been able to kill ALL of them and then the game would have gone in a different direction. There was a great DA control showoff between Reach and Nal_Ra(I think it was on Paradoxxx, MyCube OSL) exchanging carrier ownership and going all-magic duel. To a point, I think it could compensate to develop the broodling ability in the queen to snipe out HT. It might require some micro, being careful and taking the right angle so goons don't obliterate your queen before it does the damage, but I believe pro's like JD can make it happen. As for ghosts, in the past we have seen(was it TheMarine vs Boxer?) ghosts being used as a defensive asset(locking down bc's) rather than showoff for nuking the opponent. More recently, Boxer used it to stop an arbiter from recalling. The ghost lockdown is probably the hardest one to fit, since it is so fragile, and you need to have really precise micro, but if anything, Terran always had a lot of micro intensive freaks(Boxer and Casy on top of them all). Maybe we are ready to witness one last evolution stage in the game before we have to face SC2 in a couple of years. | ||
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.risingdragoon
United States3021 Posts
Q: Why do you think this hasn't been effective before? I wanna clarify this point a little bit: He meant that it didn't work before because it was not incorporated as a part of a specially prepare strategy. And that in the future if the occasion allows / calls for it, he'll use them, again, as a part of a prepared strategy. Kickass, cus I like the queen/defiler combo a lot. -ps oh and can moderator edit the thread name slightly? | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
On December 24 2008 23:08 Warrior Madness wrote: Jaedong wasnt the one to use queens first. Hyvaa was the most recent in memory, but im sure theres been others. Yes!!! The Jaedong build, it's official folks! How effective and useful it will be in the long run, we will see. The two hatch muta got countered quite quickly. God I'm excited. I mean, I don't think there is a zerg player on this board who hasn't theory wanked Queen usage. It has taken so long but it's here. I'm equally happy that it would be JAEDONG, out of everyone else, who will lead the way. (Well actually, didn't Chojja use queens a lot?) I'm happy with Jaedong's newest, latest role as the zerg revolutionist (Though he really has been doing so for the last year). It looks like he's been working really hard to try and innovate, and he's not gonna stop any time soon. Edit: Lol, Jaedong is not a revolutionist. He's known for doing the same shit that zergs have done since Savior- only better. Thats why Zerg play has not changed dramatically, a race usually follows by good example. Hyvaa used Queens, because im sure all zergs were testing them out, but I doubt it would of become standard because of Hyvaa. Hes a weak zerg. Jaedong used it, and now zergs who were practicing it, will have that much more confidence and will begin to use it. Really, since Saviors time, no new zvt strategies have formed except two hatch muta, and even that had nothing to do with Jaedong [though he was amazing at it]. Don't pretend hes revolutionized shit when he hasn't- he just plays a big role in forcing new strategies into modern play, because hes "the" zerg. | ||
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Avidkeystamper
United States8556 Posts
On December 25 2008 10:10 Dazed_Spy wrote: Jaedong wasnt the one to use queens first. Hyvaa was the most recent in memory, but im sure theres been others. Was already clarified; first to use time a queen/defiler combo effectively. | ||
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nK)Duke
Germany936 Posts
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Rotodyne
United States2263 Posts
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17743 Posts
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
On December 25 2008 10:10 Dazed_Spy wrote: Jaedong wasnt the one to use queens first. Hyvaa was the most recent in memory, but im sure theres been others. Edit: Lol, Jaedong is not a revolutionist. He's known for doing the same shit that zergs have done since Savior- only better. Thats why Zerg play has not changed dramatically, a race usually follows by good example. Hyvaa used Queens, because im sure all zergs were testing them out, but I doubt it would of become standard because of Hyvaa. Hes a weak zerg. Jaedong used it, and now zergs who were practicing it, will have that much more confidence and will begin to use it. Really, since Saviors time, no new zvt strategies have formed except two hatch muta, and even that had nothing to do with Jaedong [though he was amazing at it]. Don't pretend hes revolutionized shit when he hasn't- he just plays a big role in forcing new strategies into modern play, because hes "the" zerg. larva micro!! | ||
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AttackZerg
United States7584 Posts
His entire systematic approach to ZvP, the timings as phases are all unique. Zerg only has so many mid-game units, his timming for those units and his strategic use of them brought zerg out of a year of brutal rapings. Savior and july were the only zergs still doing good ZvP post bisu error, check the stats, and only because other protoss had much worse timing/multi-task. Please don't talk as if you understand zerg strategy. Watch savior zvp, any of them, and you won't see 3 hat spire -> scourge to nullify sair play plus scout and then completely adapt from there. Zerg was far less refinned strategically against FE until he refined the macro game. Get a clue please. | ||
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ish0wstopper
Korea (South)342 Posts
kwanro did ok for a while when people werent used to his hyper aggressive style and luxury has been a solid player for awhile now jaedong is really amazing, its hard to incorporate queens and defilers and get off perfect uses of spells while keeping up the unit production and everything else | ||
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Warrior Madness
Canada3791 Posts
Edit: Lol, Jaedong is not a revolutionist. He's known for doing the same shit that zergs have done since Savior- only better. Thats why Zerg play has not changed dramatically, a race usually follows by good example. Hyvaa used Queens, because im sure all zergs were testing them out, but I doubt it would of become standard because of Hyvaa. Hes a weak zerg. Jaedong used it, and now zergs who were practicing it, will have that much more confidence and will begin to use it. Really, since Saviors time, no new zvt strategies have formed except two hatch muta, and even that had nothing to do with Jaedong [though he was amazing at it]. Don't pretend hes revolutionized shit when he hasn't- he just plays a big role in forcing new strategies into modern play, because hes "the" zerg. This \/ On December 26 2008 00:32 AttackZerg wrote: Dazed_spy, he actually was the first zerg to use 3 hat lair -> 5 hat hat macro timming to get solid economic leverage against protoss FE builds. Putting Sair/Dt into extinction and making sair/reaver much much harder. His entire systematic approach to ZvP, the timings as phases are all unique. Zerg only has so many mid-game units, his timming for those units and his strategic use of them brought zerg out of a year of brutal rapings. Savior and july were the only zergs still doing good ZvP post bisu error, check the stats, and only because other protoss had much worse timing/multi-task. Please don't talk as if you understand zerg strategy. Watch savior zvp, any of them, and you won't see 3 hat spire -> scourge to nullify sair play plus scout and then completely adapt from there. Zerg was far less refinned strategically against FE until he refined the macro game. Get a clue please. Just watch Savior vs Nal_Ra, Savior vs Bisu, Jaedong vs Stork and then finally, Jaedong vs Bisu on bluestorm. Jaedong at the very least popularized, if not invented, the standard ZvP BO used today. If changing HOW standard ZvP is played is considered NOT revolutionary then I don't know what is. Is that AS revolutionary as Savior's defiler/hive innovation? I'd say no but it's still a great, lasting innovation that helped ZvP immensely. Anyways, now JD has his eye on Queens and this (though waaaaaayyy premature to say) could change ZvT midgame/SK games for good. | ||
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
Earlier than Jaedong vs Bisu; 815 vs Best - maybe 815 is the person who revolutionized ZvP!!!!! Jaedong's next most recent blue storm game; quite similar to the 5hatch build as it follows the scourge > sair mentality, but that was semi-popular then anyway. Fact is, by the time jaedong vs bisu rolled around, this was already another viable build in the arsenal of zerg tricks (notably on blue storm due to the two easy expos). I have my doubts that Jaedong employed this build exclusively, or near exclusively following this game - but ill research that up now. I'd be far more inclined to say that yarnc has really revolutionized it by employing essentially exclusively for most of his zvp's this year. EDIT: Upon further investigation it seems that Jaedong employed the 4hatch/hydra -> lair as his primary ZvP weapon (from a representative set of ZvP's) occasionally throwing in a 3 base mutalisk build. Revolutionary? Rofl fuck off EDIT 2: Is the next closest "major" event that showcased some cousin of the current standard ZvP. The difference here is the lack of the 5th hatch at the right timing. With that said, after 6~ months of this build seeing almost no use; this game is likely to have sparked some zergs to think about using this build more often. Here's savior using a very similar build in WCG for example For comparison, here is one of Jaedong's vods from WCG and viola! he's using essentially the same build with a slight change to the hydraden timing. And heres the first game on destination (around early oct) Yarnc loses, but the build is there. Jaedong uses this build in the next destination game played What my research has told me; Jaedong didn't revolutionize anything. It was a gradual evolution from savior until the latter days of blue storm, where precursors to this build existed. However, after that, the other rival variant, the 4hatch/hydreden->lair variation was most popular. July vs Best changed that, and we saw an influx of 3hat -> lair -> spire/den 4th/5thexpo which is quite obviously the immediate ancestor of the 5hat shit. Want to credit someone for a revolution? Credit July. Otherwise be content in knowing that it was a gradual revolution. But dont try to tell me jaedong revolutionized ZvP; because he didn't. | ||
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abakben
United States308 Posts
 Quote from Dazed_Spy: "Jaedong is not a revolutionist. He's known for doing the same shit that zergs have done since Savior- only better." 100% correct. | ||
Hot_Bid
Braavos36402 Posts
On December 25 2008 10:10 Dazed_Spy wrote: Jaedong wasnt the one to use queens first. Hyvaa was the most recent in memory, but im sure theres been others. Edit: Lol, Jaedong is not a revolutionist. He's known for doing the same shit that zergs have done since Savior- only better. Thats why Zerg play has not changed dramatically, a race usually follows by good example. Hyvaa used Queens, because im sure all zergs were testing them out, but I doubt it would of become standard because of Hyvaa. Hes a weak zerg. Jaedong used it, and now zergs who were practicing it, will have that much more confidence and will begin to use it. Really, since Saviors time, no new zvt strategies have formed except two hatch muta, and even that had nothing to do with Jaedong [though he was amazing at it]. Don't pretend hes revolutionized shit when he hasn't- he just plays a big role in forcing new strategies into modern play, because hes "the" zerg. lolol | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
Also there are alot of new zergstrategies since saviors time, dont be stupid. | ||
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
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Avidkeystamper
United States8556 Posts
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28875 Posts
He hehehe | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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