EPTiloveoov: The Greatest Genius - Page 4
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SonuvBob
Aiur21552 Posts
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_Grazze_
834 Posts
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soudo
603 Posts
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Mora
Canada5235 Posts
Ver i fucking love you. omg. just wow. | ||
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LightRailCoyote
United States982 Posts
Best sc read i've had oustide of TLFE. | ||
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EvilTeletubby
Baltimore, USA22261 Posts
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Excalibur_Z
United States12260 Posts
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gm.tOSS
Germany898 Posts
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RamenStyle
United States1929 Posts
Nada does know how to play safe, but he is not a conservative player at all. Actually, if he is known for something is for his freestyle play and ability to adapt. And even up to date he has his own freestyle variations of the various bo. He has a great capacity for decision making, and he adapts almost instantly to any situation, reading the game flow perfectly. That's why he still hangs in there even today. But great article anyhow. | ||
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Mazer
Canada1086 Posts
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allowicious
United States972 Posts
gj, thanks! | ||
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Zoler
Sweden6339 Posts
At last someone that understands Iloveoovs style. Iloveoov was not boring macro, he took economical riskes, like expanding while not having units to defend, etc. | ||
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fanatacist
10319 Posts
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Ver
United States2186 Posts
I had intended to make some controversy and spark discussion with my broad claims about iloveoov as the smartest ever, since Boxer can certainly lay claim to that as well. But there is none! How disappointing  Yeah, I may only have 18 posts now but I've been lurking here since the halpmeh/broodwar.com era with various half year/year long breaks. So I am very familiar with pretty much everything that's been posted here. On October 31 2008 04:29 Excalibur_Z wrote: This was a fantastic article. I didn't know oov was as hated as you've shown here, I've always liked him and considered him a protégé of Boxer. I also never saw oov's strategy beyond monster macro and skillful but inconsistent micro, aggressive and stealthy expansion is a new strategic concept to me, so thanks for enlightening me on that. Brilliantly done. Part of it certainly was just new-guy-beating-up-my-favorites syndrom, and I'm sure some smaller part was inherent tl-anti non-Boxer terran bias. But oov, like Savior, attracted a very peculiar amount of hate or apathy. I suppose hate is not the proper word though; it is more of: very few people speak good about him or the others who may are drowned out by the bandwagon, many people speak negatively about him, and many for a time refused to recognize his elite level. My reasoning is that they were both psychologically dominant, defensive players, who rarely showcased awe-inspiring micro. The former two qualities are not easy to be impressed by, as you have to be specifically looking for it, while Boxer, Nada, or Casy's micro jumps out of the screen at you. Even Xellos, the most boring champion ever, got a ton of praise. Just like with Savior, it took until oov was no longer a big force in the progaming world and the years had passed to get the apathy to pass. If you want a modern equivalent, look at Flash. He has a minority of fans, and he has a LOT of hate/apathy. Compared to Jaedong, who is a) zerg and b) showcases very flashy play, has more fanboys than one can count, it's striking. Flash is characterized as boring etc, but he is the neo-iloveoov. Hence why I'll be writing about him later I don't want to go on a searching rampage like I had to make this article, but this was easy to find: "Why the hate for ILoveOOv?" http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=15888 If you really want to read a lot you can go through all the major live report threads, but that is a lot of reading heh. (oov vs yellow, boxer, and july finals would be the most flagrant) On October 31 2008 04:53 RamenStyle wrote: Nice article, but I disagree with the oov - nada comparison. Oov not a safe first player? Ok, what do players who play safe? Early rushes? Cheesing? No. They play safe by going defensive. And that's exactly what oov did. He relied on his superb defense to go fast exp knowing that once he resisted the first siege minutes, his macro would be virtually unstoppable. So basically> Fast exp> defend for 12 mins>macro the shit out of his opponent>autowin>go back in cage and fed bananas. Nada does know how to play safe, but he is not a conservative player at all. Actually, if he is known for something is for his freestyle play and ability to adapt. And even up to date he has his own freestyle variations of the various bo. He has a great capacity for decision making, and he adapts almost instantly to any situation, reading the game flow perfectly. That's why he still hangs in there even today. But great article anyhow. I feel as if you only read half of what I said, if that. When Nada is getting raped to the extent that he only lives by mass repairing 1 goliath vs 6 wraiths, will he take a gigantic risk and hidden expo while not building any turrets to invite further harass? When Nada is in a very vulnerable state, does he be aggressive and try to bluff the opponent? And have you watched their game on Detonation? oov is way behind, and yet he immediately pressures Nada while Nada is sitting back turtling AND oov double expands again (4 expo to 2) while he is doing that. So basically oov is hurting Nada and expanding twice as much as him when oov has a weaker army. Yes that is perfectly safe play...right. Nada does not do that. Nada gets an advantage with amazing mechanics and just plays it out. Basically Nada, up until he got trounced by oov over and oov, did a 1 build fits all formula. He even says that he only prepared 1 build per map and didn't vary it much. Nada definitely had his own unique style and yeah you saw variance from him, but he was never a player who won on psychology or strategy until oov beat him down so much. Then over time, when pure mechanics would not win anymore for him, he gradually began to adapt. And he credits that to oov, and oov's amazing game sense which he says he lacks. Nada of present is far different from when oov and Nada played all their series. I really really wish I could find that interview, but I've done so many searches and come up with nothing. | ||
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Maenander
Germany4927 Posts
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Guybrush
Spain4744 Posts
On October 31 2008 04:29 Excalibur_Z wrote: This was a fantastic article. I didn't know oov was as hated as you've shown here, I've always liked him and considered him a protégé of Boxer. I also never saw oov's strategy beyond monster macro and skillful but inconsistent micro, aggressive and stealthy expansion is a new strategic concept to me, so thanks for enlightening me on that. Brilliantly done. I actually liked Oov even back then, because he was being so impressive nearly every game - he showed some tremendous play in the EVER2004 OSL. Aye he was hated by many, mostly for 'stealing' titles from fan favorites like Yellow, Nada, and Boxer. Oov was sort of like Stork is now - except more dominant obviously - if you replaced Storks silvers with golds you'd have Oov. Everyone knew he was fucking good, yet they found him boring. No doubt they are both very strong strategical players. Some other interesting similareties is that they both won WCGs and they have both fairly low APM evolving their play around solid macro. What separates them is the mental prowness Oov possess. He doesnt lose finals, Stork loses them. I remember me and PoP had a discussion with Nazgul over the fact that Oov didnt show creativity like Reach, Nal_rA, Boxer, Yellow and GARIMTO, and therefore he was boring/disliked. Our final conclusion was that all upcoming Terrans would model their play after Oov and the other top "machineterrans" like Nada and Xellos. And that kinda goes today too. You might see the occasional UpMagic, and Lomo do some creative plays now and then, but overall you will see the Minds, forGGs, Canatas, and Midases, all modeling their game after Oov. Oov is different though, because he is King Kong ![[image loading]](http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/9498/saviorvskongqi4.jpg) or because Oov has a plan, he doesnt do it because it's "good". He decides what is good, and people will follow. Unlike someone like NaDa he knows his mechanics wont allow him to do anything, and therefore he analyzes and finds possibilities to give him economic adventage by always defending with sufficient numbers. And the others follow. The 2rax expand is the perfect example. People hating Oov back then also failed to notice what ToKoreaWithLove posts here right after the Oov vs Reach semifinals - taken from the semifinal thread. Oov = Plan On November 07 2004 11:00 ToKoreaWithLove wrote: oov impresses me a whole lot more than nada does, nada even admitted in an interview that he never changes his strats according to maps but just keeps up the same old thing. The oov we are seeing now is different from the oov we saw only months ago. It is easy to see that he is slowly turning into a hybrid of the best macro around and the lethal strategic mind of boxer. | ||
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Guybrush
Spain4744 Posts
And a KTF fan too! Cant wait for your articles on Savior and Flash. | ||
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SuperJongMan
Jamaica11586 Posts
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Raithed
China7078 Posts
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Descent
1244 Posts
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