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Active: 1449 users

iloveoov: The Greatest Genius - Page 5

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
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Darkmole
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States900 Posts
October 30 2008 22:31 GMT
#81
damn this article was very nice :D
loved it ^^v
Ghostclaws
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
114 Posts
October 30 2008 22:50 GMT
#82
amazing. every time I read about Oov, he's even greater in my mind than before. Oov is the true genius terran?
hhjkkjhgffghhgg, hhjkkjhgffghgff
fAnTaCy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States893 Posts
October 31 2008 01:00 GMT
#83
This is a really great write up. There's not a whole lot of things i'll read from start to finish but this one i would re-read several times. I call final edit
President of Doctor Helvetica Fan Club...PM to join. Members--4, Most recent: Archas
Pulimuli
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Sweden2766 Posts
October 31 2008 01:10 GMT
#84
On October 31 2008 07:50 Ghostclaws wrote:
amazing. every time I read about Oov, he's even greater in my mind than before. Oov is the true genius terran?


He's a really smart player like BoxeR,something NaDa lacks - but, makes up for with his sick mechanics.

I think NaDa said he would have wanted the strategical skill that oov and boxer have.
We Are Here
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Australia1810 Posts
October 31 2008 03:56 GMT
#85
this really should be TLFE, i almost missed it =/
He who turns those around him into allies, possesses the most terrifying ability in the world.
eshlow
Profile Joined June 2008
United States5210 Posts
October 31 2008 04:10 GMT
#86
Awesome article.

Can't wait for another!
Overcoming Gravity: A Systematic Approach to Gymnastics and Bodyweight Strength
Railz
Profile Joined July 2008
United States1449 Posts
October 31 2008 04:27 GMT
#87
On October 31 2008 10:10 Pulimuli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2008 07:50 Ghostclaws wrote:
amazing. every time I read about Oov, he's even greater in my mind than before. Oov is the true genius terran?


He's a really smart player like BoxeR,something NaDa lacks - but, makes up for with his sick mechanics.

I think NaDa said he would have wanted the strategical skill that oov and boxer have.


Boxer has also said he envies Nada, so its a trio of jealousy >_>
Did the whole world just get a lot smaller and go whooosh?_-` Number 0ne By.Fantasy Fanatic!
timchi
Profile Joined December 2007
United States57 Posts
October 31 2008 04:31 GMT
#88
really great write up! i actually read it all and i enjoyed all of it =D
Ozarugold
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
2716 Posts
October 31 2008 05:10 GMT
#89
Good read~

Can't wait for his return!!
this is my quote.
onihunter
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States515 Posts
October 31 2008 05:29 GMT
#90
On October 30 2008 19:29 SilverSkyLark wrote:
Final Edit please, haha. Great Read.

jaedong forever~
StormSnarlX
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
United States278 Posts
October 31 2008 05:37 GMT
#91
WOW, this has got to be one of the best articles I've ever read on TL.net. Absolutely amazing! None of the replies praising the OP, including mine, can truly appreciates for what you have just created. Please Please write more.
Catz Forever <3
NahLGaE
Profile Joined February 2008
Korea (South)523 Posts
October 31 2008 05:50 GMT
#92
wow that was really detailed and long. great job. only thing i have to say is that oov isnt the 'most dominating of all time' since that title is clearly taken by savior =) otherwise awesomeee XD
마재윤.
ketomai
Profile Joined June 2007
United States2789 Posts
October 31 2008 05:56 GMT
#93
Amazing read. Possibly the best article I've read on this website.
gg_hertzz
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
2152 Posts
October 31 2008 06:06 GMT
#94
i never got the impression that oov was great at macro. i know that it's what he's known for and that it figures into one of his nicknames (cheater terran) but i just don't see it.
zgl
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
United States1055 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-10-31 06:29:13
October 31 2008 06:06 GMT
#95
On October 31 2008 14:50 NahLGaE wrote:
wow that was really detailed and long. great job. only thing i have to say is that oov isnt the 'most dominating of all time' since that title is clearly taken by savior =) otherwise awesomeee XD


No, its Oov:
higher elo peak + more success in individual leagues (Oov has 3msl/2osl/1wcg golds, Savior has 3msl/1osl) along with proleague domination


Oov vs Reach game 5 was beautiful. Too bad arbiters haven't been "invented" yet.
b_unnies
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
3579 Posts
October 31 2008 06:33 GMT
#96
thats a really really nice article


one thing i would like to point out is that oov also made the 8 rax build, even though boxer was the first to use it
Ver
Profile Joined October 2008
United States2186 Posts
October 31 2008 07:15 GMT
#97
Lots of unrelated stuff to respond to. As always, thanks for all the support. It is very much appreciated and is good motivation for future projects (which there will be!).

Yes oov deserves the title of Genius Terran a lot more than Nada, at least in our context. From what I understand, and I might be wrong, the eastern definition of genius is more of someone who is just extremely skilled, which fits Nada perfectly: being the best terran mechanical player in history. Terran Emperor is more fitting for Boxer, the only other contestant for 'Genius Terran.' Flash has shown spurts of brilliance, but hasn't done it for long enough to compare. And after those oov/boxer/flash, no terran is really that smart.

oov was known for macro cause he didn't win by outmicroing them and people had to explain his victories somehow lol. But remember that oov did create the macro revolution, the biggest transformation in SC history. He had more units for other reasons than his ability to multitask and make lots of units efficiently, but that was how it looked like. Oh, and he was never wasteful with his forces and always conserved stuff, so his armies would always be larger than possible just by producing; this is in stark contrast to many Terrans who would make an army and throw it away, then do it again. This efficiency was emphasized by Savior as well. Heh, there's a fair amount I would've liked to add to this in the strategy section but I didn't want to put too much/ruin the flow.

Other stories.

oov was definitely more dominant than Savior. The only person who can be compared to oov in dominance is Flash; who I will post for comparison below.

The only thing Savior can lay claim to is that he dominated for slightly longer. But oov dominated much harder and did it from the very first games of his career. Compare the records/time lengths:

+ Show Spoiler +

oov in absolute peak form, up until facing Julyzerg 03/04/05-04/07/01. Nearly 15 months.

77-20 Overall (79%)
32-15 TvT (68%)
27-0 TvZ (100%)
18-5 TvP (78%)

oov start of career to ever osl victory 03/04/05-04/11/20. 19 1/2 months.

114-48 Overall (70%)
45-28 TvT (62%)
37-9 TvZ (80%)
32-11 TvP (74%)

Savior: Uzoo Msl to pre-Bisu 05/04/28-07/02/24 Nearly 22 months

90-41 Overall (69%)
25-16 ZvZ (61%)
33-15 ZvT (69%)
32-10 ZvP (76%)

Flash dominant streak 08/01/02-08/06/11 5 1/3 months Bacchus to pre-Luxury loss, where he was clearly exposed as losing the magic and playing standard. When in Bacchus Flash turned 'on' I can't really tell, so I just took the whole thing.

56-16 Overall (78%)
16-3 TvT (84%)
16-6 TvZ (72%)
24-7 TvP (77%)


Flash did his in a much shorter time, which a) shows that he did not have the longetivity of the others nor the accomplishments (2 titles vs 4+1 silver), but b) was ridiculously overused to the point of sheer exhaustion.


In terms of accomplishments, oov no question accomplished more. Superfights vs WCG/iTv. 5 golds and two bronze I believe, rather than 4 and 2 silvers. While I do not quite know who overall was better in proleague, oov or Anytime, oov also single-handedly won the allkill leagues, making him the best teamplay player ever. Savior, while doing quite well in proleague, was not oov level.

The main difference is that Savior is dominant of the sense of, why doesn't this guy lose! He went 3-2 or 2-1 in so many major series it was ridiculous. oov on the other hand...didn't lose. 27-0 TvZ. Let me repeat that again. 27-0, against a mix of absolute top notch zergs and medium level ones. NOTHING compares to that. Both played against the absolute best competition possible. Both beat down the bonjwas. But Savior dropped more random games for really random reasons and wasn't mentally strong for the same reasons oov was.

And oov came back after his bonjwa reign to take another title, and it's pretty obvious he would've won Cyon MSL too if Savior was not in the way. Savior, after the fall at the hands of Bisu, has never made another finals. At least until 2009, yes?

On October 31 2008 15:33 b_unnies wrote:
thats a really really nice article


one thing i would like to point out is that oov also made the 8 rax build, even though boxer was the first to use it


Seriously? If you remember where you saw that, please point me to it!


Liquipedia
Railz
Profile Joined July 2008
United States1449 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-10-31 07:17:37
October 31 2008 07:17 GMT
#98
On October 31 2008 15:06 gg_hertzz wrote:
i never got the impression that oov was great at macro. i know that it's what he's known for and that it figures into one of his nicknames (cheater terran) but i just don't see it.


Read this http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=67579

+ Show Spoiler +
The age old question regarding Oov is: how did he do it? How did he produce more units than anyone thought was reasonable? Oov's play was actually rather sloppy. Very often he would forget midgame supply depots or mismanage his money and be forced to build more factories to compensate. So very often those billions of factories that were an Oov trademark were the result of sloppy play. Cold hard unit production was not Oov's strongest point, not by a long shot.



Boxer's tutelage had taught Oov the fundamentals of the game and this honed his game sense above all other things. His game sense is what is revolutionary about Oov, not his unit production. He knew the right time to expand and pressure and when it was time to defend and consolidate gains. His razor sharp sense allowed him to push the boundaries of what was deemed acceptable, and was thus able to compensate for his lack of production/supply management. -Plexa


He made himself appear large which disrupted his opponents.
Did the whole world just get a lot smaller and go whooosh?_-` Number 0ne By.Fantasy Fanatic!
gg_hertzz
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
2152 Posts
October 31 2008 07:30 GMT
#99
On October 31 2008 16:17 Railz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2008 15:06 gg_hertzz wrote:
i never got the impression that oov was great at macro. i know that it's what he's known for and that it figures into one of his nicknames (cheater terran) but i just don't see it.


Read this http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=67579

+ Show Spoiler +
The age old question regarding Oov is: how did he do it? How did he produce more units than anyone thought was reasonable? Oov's play was actually rather sloppy. Very often he would forget midgame supply depots or mismanage his money and be forced to build more factories to compensate. So very often those billions of factories that were an Oov trademark were the result of sloppy play. Cold hard unit production was not Oov's strongest point, not by a long shot.



Boxer's tutelage had taught Oov the fundamentals of the game and this honed his game sense above all other things. His game sense is what is revolutionary about Oov, not his unit production. He knew the right time to expand and pressure and when it was time to defend and consolidate gains. His razor sharp sense allowed him to push the boundaries of what was deemed acceptable, and was thus able to compensate for his lack of production/supply management. -Plexa


He made himself appear large which disrupted his opponents.


i don't normally say this but holy shit that was helpful. Plexa has great insight.
ambit!ous1
Profile Joined September 2007
United States3662 Posts
October 31 2008 07:55 GMT
#100
great artictle! thanks!
Bisu[Shield] / ♔ SoYeon
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