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ok i started playing iccup a couple of months ago..
started to watch replays, work on build orders, and basically get my ass kicked with something learned from every loss (hopefully).
now my question is, how long did it take you to get comfortable and started to win most of your games? my record now including alts is 17-35.. the win ratio hasn't improved since i started. thats about 50 games, at what point did most of you start to see a huge improvement and general turnaround from losing to winning? (im obviously playing D level, with a goal of eventually D+ .. yes im a noob but i sill love this game)
i feel as if im learning still from my losses but its a slower process to learn the mid/late game compared to the early game..
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When iCCup first started I hit D- on every account I made, and now I can hit C with a ~52% record. It does take a while, but one day you'll just click and suddenly those fucking 9/9 gating Protoss players aren't auto-loss anymore!
EDIT : As to exactly how long, 3-4 seasons for me, more or less for you depending on the quality and frequency of your practice.
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how frequent would you play? with a job, gf, and sports its tough to find time although i try to play at least 1-2 games a day. i was thinking maybe just hardcore it for a while to get to a certain level and try to maintain it.
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in my first season (it was on theabyss, be4 iccup) i went like 20-30.
now after few seasons with lots of breaks, im C rank with 59-56 stats,
for me it always been like when i get better and i achieve new rank, ill be stuck on this rank for a while and keep a 50% win ratio(sometimes it goes lower), when i start winning my ratio will get a lil better and thats how i get to the next rank.
to sum it up, u have to keep playing till u get better (in ur case, lets say u manage to have a 40%
win ratio then it means u improve, always have a goal u want to reach),
always keep a goal in ur mind, that helps a lot (well at least for me).
check ur replays, find the mistakes, check what u have to work on, and work on it.
if u cant manage to find the mistakes, post a rep + description of the rep and im sure ppl will be glad to help u.
another thing i suggest to u, is to play only motw and play ppl that are the same rank as u (or better if u'r willing to improve).
what i like to do, is when there is a new motw, i pick one map, then i go and download replays with these maps played and watch them of course.
then i usually play only this map for 1 week till there is a new motw.
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intrigue
Washington, D.C9933 Posts
for me my improvement came in big jumps that happened randomly, usually for specific matchup. i'd be playing a ladder game and all of a sudden something would click, and i'd suddenly be drastically better than i was before. this happened about once every few months when i was active, which was probably 50-100 serious games each period (i'm not really a massgamer). between each leap in skill i'd plateau and stay around the same.
i guess the best explanation for my pattern of getting better is the gradual culmination of little things that i worked on every game, coming together to make a significant impact on my overall play. not sure how other people get better though, i've never really experienced a linear improvement in my play.
this is boring advice, but it's the best and only way to get better - keep on going at it, ignore your record (at your level your priority should be getting better, not winning games), look over your replays, and remember to think critically about why you won or why you lost. i used to save only loss replays and watch them over and over in agony but they really paid off. everybody here who's laddered knows what it's like to feel like you're going absolutely nowhere, but don't give up! good luck!
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I never really massgame or anything, so when I game for periods of time, I always improve slowly.
If you are able to play 5-10 games per day, and carefully analyze games you lose / constantly thinking about mistakes you are making and work to fix them, you should see fairly rapid improvement, especially if you are only a D rank player.
If you really dedicate yourself to it, I think its pretty feasible to jump from D rank to C rank in about 1-2 months (2 if you are between 5-10 per day , 1 if you are 15-20 per day).
Higher than C ranks though becomes more difficult to improve rapidly.
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i guess i should play more often then .. i usually do 1-2 games a day with a few more on weekends. for the next couple of months ill try to play 5-10 games a day.
maybe ill post some replays but im sure everyone will just laugh.
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shouldnt this depend on the player? different players improve faster than others. I think it took me around 2 weeks to get from 7-16 to 16-7 after i sharpened my build orders and got my macro better. (my micro still struggling in some degree)
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I think the first iCCup seasons are really different to the current iCCup - it's so much harder.
For me personally, the first iCCup seasons, I hit C or C+ with like 60-70% win rate; but now, i'm at C+ and barely holding on with like 55% hahaha.
anyway, just remember, it gets harder as the ranks go up. from D to C wasn't too difficult for me, even though i was mainly a UMS and 2v2 player.
The only way to improve, is pretty obvious and general. you just keep playing.
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On August 02 2008 05:19 WindCalibur wrote:
shouldnt this depend on the player? different players improve faster than others. I think it took me around 2 weeks to get from 7-16 to 16-7 after i sharpened my build orders and got my macro better. (my micro still struggling in some degree)
yes it does depends on the player... but im talking more about an average gamer who wants to improve himself in a particular game. ive played RTS games since warcraft1 but i never played competitively (use map settings, storyline, 8 player bgh ffas etc.), the last time i played ladder was on bnet 8 years ago... and when i saw the level of play at iccup i was absolutely amazed and wanted to get better. im not aiming to be the best, i just don't want to be destroyed every game. From the looks of the replies getting a 50% ratio is considered pretty good.
someone who was just introduced to RTS games in general will take much longer than someone with gaming habbits and a bit of commitment. lucky for me this isn't my first RTS.
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Uh when I started playing PGT I was like D+/C- for about the first 2 seasons I think...
Then once I joined nV. I skyrocked to B+ in another season 
All you need is a team and good training partners that you can play 10 games in a row with.
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On August 02 2008 04:44 kilika wrote:
ok i started playing iccup a couple of months ago..
started to watch replays, work on build orders, and basically get my ass kicked with something learned from every loss (hopefully).
now my question is, how long did it take you to get comfortable and started to win most of your games? my record now including alts is 17-35.. the win ratio hasn't improved since i started. thats about 50 games, at what point did most of you start to see a huge improvement and general turnaround from losing to winning? (im obviously playing D level, with a goal of eventually D+ .. yes im a noob but i sill love this game)
i feel as if im learning still from my losses but its a slower process to learn the mid/late game compared to the early game..
I played so many games that even early on I was winning the majority of my games.
I started with blood bath and hunters 2v2 and 3v3. Then I joined $playaz$ and started playing 1v1 bgh and lotem. then I started playing ladder and maphacking. then I finally made the switch to broodwar(wasn't hacking anymore, too), and by then I was good enough that I almost always won pub games.
then gamei, etc, etc
basically I moved up so slowly that I was almost always winning, except once I finally got to where I was playing the absolute top foreigners and good koreans. then i resigned myself to the fact that there would be much losing.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
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-play better players than yourself
-watch ur own replays after the game
for me the improvement comes like after gaming 15-25 games
hardcore and watching reps of your own games.
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1-2 games a day isn't enough at that level unless you're a genius. Mass games to gain experience.
Watch your own replays and sometimes have someone better comment on it. Better players can see things that you won't notice at all.
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On August 02 2008 06:59 [X]Ken_D wrote:
1-2 games a day isn't enough at that level unless you're a genius. Mass games to gain experience
Echoing this. 1-2 games a day really isn't enough since SC games are really short. There is no "key" to getting better at SC, just practice and observation.
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I found it helps to work on specific matchups, especially if you only play 1-2 games a day. Maybe practice BOs against computers first so you get the timings down, then only play that matchup on Iccup for a week or so. Rotate matchups until you can play them all well, then you can start moving up the ladder.
I started with a 1-10 record on Iccup, then it noticebally improved after i adopted this training tactic.
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On August 02 2008 07:23 Tomed wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2008 06:59 [X]Ken_D wrote:
1-2 games a day isn't enough at that level unless you're a genius. Mass games to gain experience Echoing this. 1-2 games a day really isn't enough since SC games are really short. There is no "key" to getting better at SC, just practice and observation.
actually watching a lot of progamers while keeping a consistent 2-3 game per day and trying your best actually improves you. Why I know this? because i did this during the 2 weeks of when I went from D- to D. You have to be really critical on yourself though. You have to play like its life and death and analyze your replays well.
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So what do you do when you are A MASTER (not really..) of theorycrafting but your mind goes completely blank and you lose your focus as soon as he starts fucking around with his scout in your base?
I watch Z reps everyday and i know the build orders and everything, but i can not for the life of me stay focused whenever shit happens.
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is awesome32274 Posts
On August 02 2008 05:02 intrigue wrote:
for me my improvement came in big jumps that happened randomly, usually for specific matchup. i'd be playing a ladder game and all of a sudden something would click, and i'd suddenly be drastically better than i was before.
This.
I remember being 70apm, not wanting to use hotkeys because i found them uncomfortable to use. And then one day I incorporated 2 hotkeys to my play because i don't know, i just did and my multitasking improved a lot (apm went to 120 or so).
Then when i started playing longer matches i would include more hotkeys, and then more harrasing that required more multitasking, then maps that have shitty pathing and you need to babysit your units more, etc.
I play very little, and I play little to no ladder (50 or so was my highest number of games played on a ladder season, and the second would be like 10.
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EPT
