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United States33625 Posts
Sources:
http://www.fomos.kr/board/board.php?mode=read&keyno=76202&db=interview&cate=&page=1&field=&kwrd=
http://www.fomos.kr/board/board.php?mode=read&keyno=76203&db=interview&cate=&page=1&field=&kwrd=
Zerglee and Zergman are the next pros to join the recent wave of retirement. Military service is always a looming problem for old gamers, as are long term career decisions.
However, in this case, it appears that Samsung's new management is part of the problem as well. There have been some changes at the upper levels of the team, it seems, and troubles occurred during contract negotiation. Or at least, the lack of such.
Zerglee was offered a significantly lower pay, but according to him, it's not the money that bothers him so much. It was that it was offered to him as a take-it-or-leave-it type of deal, with no negotiation possible. It was unacceptable to him, as one of the senior members of the team (seniority is still very important in Korean society), and considering his performance in the first half of the 2007 pro-league.
Zergman also described Samsung's attitude towards their players over contracts as less than satisfactory. The two players felt disrespected by the team they had served so loyally over the years, and combined with the other difficulties they face, it lead to their decisions to retire.
Though we can hardly be expected to believe Zerglee when he says it's not about money at all, it's unfortunate that they were treated so poorly. Many fans are cynical about the attitude of pro-teams towards e-sports in general, as they continuously show the attitude of those trying to exploit a short-lived fad, rather than trying to help create the foundations for a long term industry.
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Korea (South)11598 Posts
wow wtf samsung ppl sound like bitches
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United States33625 Posts
well, rumors are air force is going to disband. that's just the word in the street, no sources I know of.
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wow damn. 
although to be honest, it seems like there's a lot of progamers that are only sticking around due to respect for seniority and past popularity. there's no way teams can keep picking up the promising new players without dropping some other players.
ACE disbanding makes sense too... it doesn't do much for the air force's image to have a consistently losing team (anyone think they'd be able to turn it around?), and i have a gut feeling a progaming team wouldn't fit the air force culture very well.
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United States20665 Posts
On March 26 2008 11:29 Waxangel wrote:
well, rumors are air force is going to disband. that's just the word in the street, no sources I know of.
I heard so too
but I'm in denial
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On March 07 2008 03:23 Kennigit wrote:
Predictions -> Zergman, July, Silent Control (wait did he retire already?)
oh ho ho ho
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Awwww, no more 2v2s from sigamari...
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On March 26 2008 11:47 Last Romantic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2008 11:29 Waxangel wrote:
well, rumors are air force is going to disband. that's just the word in the street, no sources I know of. I heard so too but I'm in denial
LIES
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ZergLee is really only known for the maelstroms Giyom did to him.
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Osaka27174 Posts
On March 26 2008 12:12 rushz0rz wrote:
ZergLee is really only known for the maelstroms Giyom did to him.
Welcome to not knowing anything about starcraft 101. -_-
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On March 26 2008 11:23 Waxangel wrote:
Many fans are cynical about the attitude of pro-teams towards e-sports in general, as they continuously show the attitude of those trying to exploit a short-lived fad, rather than trying to help create the foundations for a long term industry.
This thing about people exploiting fads is all over Korea.
I feel that the whole Korean wave is going to crash and burn because of this.
Not only is e-gaming being mismanaged but also the newer media. The junk that Korean companies call pop music and movies and all that junk..
They are riding on the success of the formers and are honestly ruining it.
I know Korean culture is strict.. that is why I know that it will not change the easily.
But there should be some people who should just say who gives a fuck about the Korean culture in Korea and fucking improve the industries.
There should be some companies in Korea similar in USA where they review the industry ratings.. take it over, improve it and sell it at a higher price.
It's fucking logic.. it's embarrassing what Korean industries are becoming.
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United States20665 Posts
On March 26 2008 12:15 Manifesto7 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2008 12:12 rushz0rz wrote:
ZergLee is really only known for the maelstroms Giyom did to him. Welcome to not knowing anything about starcraft 101. -_-
So, rushz0rz, does the name 'sigamari' ring a bell?
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NeverGG
United Kingdom5399 Posts
I spoke to FBH about this online last night and the night before. He confirmed both retirements, but didn't provide any details aside from the fact that he's got no plans to retire in the near future himself. I'm personally sad to hear the news - both players were nice guys and I'll miss their presence both at matches and Khan events. I hope Samsung can bounce back from this with a fresh line up.
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On March 26 2008 11:29 Waxangel wrote:
well, rumors are air force is going to disband. that's just the word in the street, no sources I know of.
;;;;;;;;;;;;;
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On March 26 2008 11:36 Polemarch wrote:
although to be honest, it seems like there's a lot of progamers that are only sticking around due to respect for seniority and past popularity. there's no way teams can keep picking up the promising new players without dropping some other players.
Except Sigamari was still rather successful. And given that the proleague was just about to roll out maps designed for 2v2, this loss, in my opinion, could be quite painful.
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That's part of the problem though. Do you realize how hard it is to change the culture of a society like Korean? Unfortunately there is no quick fix to this and it is a shame.
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Whoa... Siggy retired? That sucks... whatever happening to owning the 2v2 circuit.
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51607 Posts
Return of the KPGA (Korean Pro Gamers Association)?
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Zergman!! Such brilliant ZvZ, and you had to go against Iris in your peak
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Wasn't zergman suppose to be the next "big" zerg? However, he didn't get too far.
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On March 26 2008 14:24 [X]Ken_D wrote:
Wasn't zergman suppose to be the next "big" zerg? However, he didn't get too far.
Zergman was so close, he was 1-0 up against Iris and would've faced Savior BO5 ZvZ in the OSL semifinals had he won.
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On March 26 2008 14:24 [X]Ken_D wrote:
Wasn't zergman suppose to be the next "big" zerg? However, he didn't get too far.
He dominated Gamei, was #1 with some ridiculous rating one season.
He basically used a strategy of a mass counter drop on the terrans expansion when FE started becoming REALLY REALLY popular (IE an everygame strategy)
Worked on OOV a few times.
Then he turned pro and switched his play around (started using lurk/ling instead of hydra/lurk)and never seemed to get really good zvt
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Baltimore, USA22259 Posts
Poor ZergLee.... man, progaming needs Boxer back, and I'm talking about ACE. He needs to be running the show and calling the shots, I can't wait for him to get out of the army and bring some respect back to pro-gaming.
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HonestTea
5007 Posts
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does Zerglee and Zergman suck at Zerg? I really have not heard from these two lately.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooo
=[
not siggy
NOT SIGGGGYYYYY
/wrists
this is the worst news of all the retirements for me
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
DY IS RUINEDDDDD
OMG
;;
4union team is retiring left right and center
only people remaining are boxer and rainbow =[
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rainbows gonna go soon into the modeling career of yellow so its only boxer left
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
getting kinda scary when SO many retire.. impending doom?
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Live2Win
United States6657 Posts
On March 26 2008 16:28 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
getting kinda scary when SO many retire.. impending doom?
well the number of new gamers registering to become a progamer is increasing each season, so I think it's more of a generation change thing. Young players like JD and Flash is now taking the place of BoxeR and YellOw, and I believe they will be the lead for the new wave of gamers.
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Russian Federation4333 Posts
Noooooooooooooo. Zerglee was your 2v2 ace, and Zergman was a decent player as well. Khan management has issues.
I dont want any more oldschool pros retiring, the new generation is so boring!
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all this retirement news so sad
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more respect to the two guys. sad to see they are "forced" to retire
bm samsung..
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=[
someone's 2v2 is fucked for next season.
and i actually kinda liked seeing zergman play.
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On March 26 2008 11:27 Last Romantic wrote:boo The whole IEG KeSpA fiasco always made me And now with Samsung getting screwed from all directions.. eh. I like Zergman too. And Sigamari. Are they going to be joining airforce? I imagine Sigamari would be an incredible 2v2 addition, and Zergman isn't shabby ZvZ
Soundz like samsung are doing the screwing
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man samsung would've never won a proleague without zerglee. As soon as he came over from SKT T1 he instilled a dominant 2v2 into Samsung and led them to a championship.. Surprised more loyalty is not shown
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On March 26 2008 14:28 Sadist wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2008 14:24 [X]Ken_D wrote:
Wasn't zergman suppose to be the next "big" zerg? However, he didn't get too far. He dominated Gamei, was #1 with some ridiculous rating one season. He basically used a strategy of a mass counter drop on the terrans expansion when FE started becoming REALLY REALLY popular (IE an everygame strategy) Worked on OOV a few times. Then he turned pro and switched his play around (started using lurk/ling instead of hydra/lurk)and never seemed to get really good zvt
I remember at one point, people called Zergman the Lost Temple master.. but when he turned pro he had to get good at other maps, and that was a handicap for him.. His ZvT was never quite the same..
At least that's what my fuzzy memory remembers =p
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What many of you fail to realise (mainly because you didn't live there, and worked in this business), is the overall misery and poverty that are the real ground of pro gaming. To make it really simple, you shouldn't be expecting any salary at all if you fail to win anything big or consistently get into later phase of leagues. Unlike what has been said, the age and senior priority wont be a factor at all of the salary. Might be when it comes to the team roster etc.. but definitly not when it comes to money.
And what you'd be suprise of, is that retirements were much much more common before. Spots under the light were fewer, and countless over talented players had to quit starcraft because not getting into the major leagues, or just that some of today's major leagues, back in the time were much smaller and ongamenet was basically the only place to be to get a sponsor.
Players such as Intotherain that were REAL famous back then, were struggling to find any kind of sponsorship.
Only Grrrr..,( and me 2 at that time ^^), samjjang, the Boys and Girls team, the KPGL Pc bang team (wich contained maynard^^), and Ideal Space folks later on were getting money. ALL the rest of the players, had to rely on tournaments prizes and minor leagues per match money, to live.
This situation evolved, but didn't change in it's core.
Situation got even worse in some places.
Two stories now, one new, one old.
New one first.
Feeling nostalgic I went on USwest in the channel of my old clan while i was in korea, sam gug gi ( 397 ), tag is SaM.
So as basically none of the ppl of my time were still active, I started chatting with some very young players there. A part of the clan, forms a semi pro team today. I was talking with this 15 years old kid, and asking him about his team, how things were running etc. It basically went like this :
- And so, what kind of money are you getting ?
- 500 000 (won).
- That's not too bad..
- No no. I pay manager 500 000.
- The fuck ? he should be paying you.
- T_T nono.
- Huk. You still live at your parent's house ?
- No, no. Team pc bang and house. I'm so tired, I have to play 40 games every day.
- Is your manager a nice guy ?
- No. He very scary man T_T. I'm scared.
That's somewhat fun and sad at the same time. But it's very much like this for many many gamers not famous yet.
Then the old one now. It's about cho jja.
So I was in COEX someday, at the time megawebstation was still OGN ground. At that time KTF didn't exist yet, but was about to begin. The head manager of the later KTF team, has a brother, that was gorush's manager.
That guy showed up to me, knowing my relation with Elky and other foreign players. And went on saying how he'd love to make a team, with korean players and foreigners. At that time, Gorush just had won WCG, but was pretty much getting owned left and right in korean leagues. Especially by elky, who'd consistently rape him any given TV game.
Anyway, I gave him my phonenumber, and he later called me back within the week. He knew I wasn't so hot about Gorush and such, but that Elky and smuft and me, because of Spunky, were alot closer to Chojja, that they liked and played with alot. He then asked me if I wanted to meet Chojja's manager that he knew well. I liked Chojja alot, and we were all pretty much considering him as one, if not the best player that ever existed at that time, cuz he was so impressive to watch play, and had that insane hand speed that shocked us each time we would have him around.
So I get on his car, and we get to chojja's manager pc bang.
More or less, that place was the devil's asshole. Just imagine a really poor area of seoul. Pick a basement of the suckiest and dirtiest building around there, set up a dozen of old and slow computers, ban any sort of light, add insects and an alien form of sticky, greasy and smelly dust everywhere, and you kind of get the place. The "manager" was some random low class yangachi lose bum, sitting in a broken chair in front of a fan all day long, smoking and burping while we were talking to him. When we asked him how about making a team, he didn't want to, saying that chojja was basically his own property, and that he offered him "this awesome place were to practice" that was his own pc bang. I didn't want to extend the meeting and asked gorush's manager to leave that place, saying later on we'd rather directly talk to chojja (eventho I had no intention, as I knew that gorush's manager, was also a bum and had a very bad reputation).
Anyway, that's just to show how miserable and hard, is the path for any gamers starting off, with no real big connections, or special luck. And furthermore, that money, can't really be a concern until later on, when the player starts winning or qualifying. Most of the pro gamer's contract have a result "clause" in it, wich forces them to win. So when they retire, you can safely assume that 99% of the time, its because the sponsor doesn't want to give as much money as before, and that the player isn't winning anymore.
I could go on forever on that topic. So many fucked up stories.
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nice story man, keep on going if you want 
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Hong Kong20321 Posts
omg ^ above post is that shit for real?! i cant believe it >_< progaming ......behind all that glitz and so called stardom it's actually like that ?! -__-;
and poor zerglee and zergman retiring.... sigh
i wish they would just join another team or something
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On March 26 2008 20:28 alffla wrote:omg ^ above post is that shit for real?! i cant believe it >_< progaming ......behind all that glitz and so called stardom it's actually like that ?! -__-; and poor zerglee and zergman retiring.... sigh i wish they would just join another team or something
It's not always, but often really starts from the bottom. The thing is, us foreigner have trouble realising how much shit a korean kid is ready to take to become pro gamer.
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On March 26 2008 20:27 Elsi wrote:nice story man, keep on going if you want
Maybe I'll blog some. If time allows it.
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Otter ? You are Otter ? :p
Been a long time i've not seen him though, i wonder what he's up to now...
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Trinidad/Tobago1177 Posts
On March 26 2008 12:33 Last Romantic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2008 12:15 Manifesto7 wrote:On March 26 2008 12:12 rushz0rz wrote:
ZergLee is really only known for the maelstroms Giyom did to him. Welcome to not knowing anything about starcraft 101. -_- So, rushz0rz, does the name 'sigamari' ring a bell?
keke.
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wow shit thats pretty harsh conditions =(
sad that zerglee and zergman leaving.
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Damn, it's a shame to see Zerglee and Zergman going. : /
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On March 26 2008 20:51 Boonbag wrote:Maybe I'll blog some. If time allows it.
Don't mean this in any confrontational way but you're way before my time in SC, so...who are you?
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On March 27 2008 00:25 1t2t3t4t5taw wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2008 20:51 Boonbag wrote:On March 26 2008 20:27 Elsi wrote:nice story man, keep on going if you want Maybe I'll blog some. If time allows it. Don't mean this in any confrontational way but you're way before my time in SC, so...who are you?
(Orky)oTTeR, I'm fairly certain.
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On March 27 2008 00:26 pubbanana wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2008 00:25 1t2t3t4t5taw wrote:On March 26 2008 20:51 Boonbag wrote:On March 26 2008 20:27 Elsi wrote:nice story man, keep on going if you want Maybe I'll blog some. If time allows it. Don't mean this in any confrontational way but you're way before my time in SC, so...who are you? (Orky)oTTeR, I'm fairly certain.
Impressivly quoted my ID with the proper cases ! ^^
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On March 26 2008 11:29 Waxangel wrote:
well, rumors are air force is going to disband. that's just the word in the street, no sources I know of.
That would make me die a little inside. We need underdog teams! How am I going to get my Mumyung fix?
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On March 26 2008 19:35 Boonbag wrote:I could go on forever on that topic. So many fucked up stories.
I figured that most progamers were having a pretty shitty life, but damn.
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On March 26 2008 19:35 Boonbag wrote:
What many of you fail to realise (mainly because you didn't live there, and worked in this business), is the overall misery and poverty that are the real ground of pro gaming. To make it really simple, you shouldn't be expecting any salary at all if you fail to win anything big or consistently get into later phase of leagues. Unlike what has been said, the age and senior priority wont be a factor at all of the salary. Might be when it comes to the team roster etc.. but definitly not when it comes to money.
And what you'd be suprise of, is that retirements were much much more common before. Spots under the light were fewer, and countless over talented players had to quit starcraft because not getting into the major leagues, or just that some of today's major leagues, back in the time were much smaller and ongamenet was basically the only place to be to get a sponsor.
Players such as Intotherain that were REAL famous back then, were struggling to find any kind of sponsorship.
Only Grrrr..,( and me 2 at that time ^^), samjjang, the Boys and Girls team, the KPGL Pc bang team (wich contained maynard^^), and Ideal Space folks later on were getting money. ALL the rest of the players, had to rely on tournaments prizes and minor leagues per match money, to live.
This situation evolved, but didn't change in it's core.
Situation got even worse in some places.
Two stories now, one new, one old.
New one first.
Feeling nostalgic I went on USwest in the channel of my old clan while i was in korea, sam gug gi ( 397 ), tag is SaM.
So as basically none of the ppl of my time were still active, I started chatting with some very young players there. A part of the clan, forms a semi pro team today. I was talking with this 15 years old kid, and asking him about his team, how things were running etc. It basically went like this :
- And so, what kind of money are you getting ?
- 500 000 (won).
- That's not too bad..
- No no. I pay manager 500 000.
- The fuck ? he should be paying you.
- T_T nono.
- Huk. You still live at your parent's house ?
- No, no. Team pc bang and house. I'm so tired, I have to play 40 games every day.
- Is your manager a nice guy ?
- No. He very scary man T_T. I'm scared.
That's somewhat fun and sad at the same time. But it's very much like this for many many gamers not famous yet.
Then the old one now. It's about cho jja.
So I was in COEX someday, at the time megawebstation was still OGN ground. At that time KTF didn't exist yet, but was about to begin. The head manager of the later KTF team, has a brother, that was gorush's manager.
That guy showed up to me, knowing my relation with Elky and other foreign players. And went on saying how he'd love to make a team, with korean players and foreigners. At that time, Gorush just had won WCG, but was pretty much getting owned left and right in korean leagues. Especially by elky, who'd consistently rape him any given TV game.
Anyway, I gave him my phonenumber, and he later called me back within the week. He knew I wasn't so hot about Gorush and such, but that Elky and smuft and me, because of Spunky, were alot closer to Chojja, that they liked and played with alot. He then asked me if I wanted to meet Chojja's manager that he knew well. I liked Chojja alot, and we were all pretty much considering him as one, if not the best player that ever existed at that time, cuz he was so impressive to watch play, and had that insane hand speed that shocked us each time we would have him around.
So I get on his car, and we get to chojja's manager pc bang.
More or less, that place was the devil's asshole. Just imagine a really poor area of seoul. Pick a basement of the suckiest and dirtiest building around there, set up a dozen of old and slow computers, ban any sort of light, add insects and an alien form of sticky, greasy and smelly dust everywhere, and you kind of get the place. The "manager" was some random low class yangachi lose bum, sitting in a broken chair in front of a fan all day long, smoking and burping while we were talking to him. When we asked him how about making a team, he didn't want to, saying that chojja was basically his own property, and that he offered him "this awesome place were to practice" that was his own pc bang. I didn't want to extend the meeting and asked gorush's manager to leave that place, saying later on we'd rather directly talk to chojja (eventho I had no intention, as I knew that gorush's manager, was also a bum and had a very bad reputation).
Anyway, that's just to show how miserable and hard, is the path for any gamers starting off, with no real big connections, or special luck. And furthermore, that money, can't really be a concern until later on, when the player starts winning or qualifying. Most of the pro gamer's contract have a result "clause" in it, wich forces them to win. So when they retire, you can safely assume that 99% of the time, its because the sponsor doesn't want to give as much money as before, and that the player isn't winning anymore.
I could go on forever on that topic. So many fucked up stories.
already answered my question...but your name still doesnt ring a bell:-P
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On March 27 2008 00:47 GoSuPlAyEr wrote:
already answered my question...but your name still doesnt ring a bell:-P
History only remembers champions. I wasn't one of them ^^.
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United States20665 Posts
On March 27 2008 00:37 Boonbag wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2008 00:26 pubbanana wrote:On March 27 2008 00:25 1t2t3t4t5taw wrote:On March 26 2008 20:51 Boonbag wrote:On March 26 2008 20:27 Elsi wrote:nice story man, keep on going if you want Maybe I'll blog some. If time allows it. Don't mean this in any confrontational way but you're way before my time in SC, so...who are you? (Orky)oTTeR, I'm fairly certain. Impressivly quoted my ID with the proper cases ! ^^
Pubbanana is a beast.
And he still insists he has a selective leaky memory. Yeahhhhhhh.
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On March 26 2008 20:27 Elsi wrote:nice story man, keep on going if you want
seconded.
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Why is Samsung being cheap, this is really bad management. I liked zergman, he experimented a lot with zerg.
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u know, this situation isnt unique to SC. the same thing happens in the arts industry. visual arts, music, acting etc... there are many ppl with talents and wants to get on the big screen but only so few that really end up hitting it. many of em lived a miserable life.
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On March 27 2008 01:56 Waxangel wrote:i'm sure horror stories still exist, but that was what, over three years ago  ? and the tl.net face is way too happy, I was thinking of something more mocking -_-
;p is more what you're looking for imo
and yeah those stories are pretty fucked up, but aren't start up industries like this always like that in the beginning? athletes used to be treated like trash too.
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On March 26 2008 12:11 Wasabi wrote:
As I understand it, the ACE team was made simply because Boxer has a large fanbase and the Air Force saw through that as good publicity. Without Boxer (who's going to end his edit-mandatory service this year), the ACE team wouldn't have existed as there were progamers who went to the service before him, yet the idea wasn't heard of until Boxer came along. Either the team disbanding simply because Boxer is leaving is ridiculous, or their image as the team who loses even more than Estro doesn't look so good.
Well nada and Yellow will have to do theirs before too long, right? Surely the two of them could bring some good publicity to the air force.
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On March 26 2008 19:35 Boonbag wrote:
So as basically none of the ppl of my time were still active, I started chatting with some very young players there. A part of the clan, forms a semi pro team today. I was talking with this 15 years old kid, and asking him about his team, how things were running etc. It basically went like this :
- And so, what kind of money are you getting ?
- 500 000 (won).
- That's not too bad..
- No no. I pay manager 500 000.
- The fuck ? he should be paying you.
- T_T nono.
- Huk. You still live at your parent's house ?
- No, no. Team pc bang and house. I'm so tired, I have to play 40 games every day.
- Is your manager a nice guy ?
- No. He very scary man T_T. I'm scared.
That's somewhat fun and sad at the same time. But it's very much like this for many many gamers not famous yet.
God that's so shitty. Stuff like that makes me feel bad about watching pro starcraft. I feel like in some way I'm supporting child labor...
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On March 27 2008 04:33 Luddite wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2008 19:35 Boonbag wrote:
So as basically none of the ppl of my time were still active, I started chatting with some very young players there. A part of the clan, forms a semi pro team today. I was talking with this 15 years old kid, and asking him about his team, how things were running etc. It basically went like this :
- And so, what kind of money are you getting ?
- 500 000 (won).
- That's not too bad..
- No no. I pay manager 500 000.
- The fuck ? he should be paying you.
- T_T nono.
- Huk. You still live at your parent's house ?
- No, no. Team pc bang and house. I'm so tired, I have to play 40 games every day.
- Is your manager a nice guy ?
- No. He very scary man T_T. I'm scared.
That's somewhat fun and sad at the same time. But it's very much like this for many many gamers not famous yet.
God that's so shitty. Stuff like that makes me feel bad about watching pro starcraft. I feel like in some way I'm supporting child labor...
i was thinking the exact same thing!
gg zerglee and zergman
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I'm not surprised to see these two retire. Although I am disappointed to see players such as these two get treated so poorly.
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On March 26 2008 11:29 Waxangel wrote:
well, rumors are air force is going to disband. that's just the word in the street, no sources I know of.
Total opinion here: I think they just made ACE more active so that Boxer could play, once he leaves probably wont see much of ACE till savior or something.
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Man this sucks, must be some kind of zerg virus or something.
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EPT
