I just played around with Camtasia Studio's recording stuff, took me maybe 20 minutes to figure it out and make a 7 1/2 minute video about the terran units. Granted, the audio is pretty bad and I had awkward pauses etc, but I just wanted to get a feel for what I'd be showing. I think we're gonna need a LOT of videos though, because it took me that long just to explain all the units, show their attack ranges and abilities... nothing about strategy or unit uses or anything like that.

Diggity

United States806 Posts

March 04 2008 23:03 GMT

#63

My understanding was that you wanted to train a bunch of newbs to bring more blood into the scene. Whoops.

Eventually that but starting with this.

I guess in retrospect that was subtlety different in presentation. Meh. *shrug

As far as I know, matchup stuff is generally explained in the actual game commentaries that folks like Diggity do. ("He's 9-pooling, this means..."). If they don't already do that, they should

We try to directly say or insinuate generally depending. :/

JellyCat

Canada138 Posts

March 04 2008 23:09 GMT

#64

One thing I don't really get when reading the thread is: how are you planning to deliver those tutorials to people who need them?
-Do I need to be proactive and search the web for it, find TeamLiquid.net and watch the videos?
-Should I get the information first time I'm looking at a vod / live stream?
-Should it be integrated directly into live streams from GSI? (if we take GSI as an example)

For example instead of having an ad before the game, you've got a 30 - 45 secs video showing the general concepts of the game (one on one, destroy the other, build an army, resource concept, technology concept...)

And if you want to go further, during the game presentation you can show stuff specific to the match up. That way you don't have to watch everything at once and get borred.

Or when the games are announced, you'll get a teaser video with that kind of content announcing the game to a broader audience.

All comments on this thread are great but it just looks like you are all looking into tiny details already when focus should be on:
-Who do we want to provide tutorial to?
-What would be the smallest thing we absolutely need to provide for it to be worthwhile? (have an idea of all the things to be done but aim at delivering something very tiny first to prove concept)
-How would you provide that?

Anyway, sounds like a really cool project.
Have fun guys

Quesadilla

United States1814 Posts

March 04 2008 23:34 GMT

#65

If this goes through, every strat we see from lower-tier players will be from these videos. They will lose even more from predictability. Haha

useLess

United States4781 Posts

March 04 2008 23:45 GMT

#66

@JellyCat:

-Do I need to be proactive and search the web for it, find TeamLiquid.net and watch the videos?
-Should I get the information first time I'm looking at a vod / live stream?
-Should it be integrated directly into live streams from GSI? (if we take GSI as an example)

imo, we should just compile a tutorial database and have it available on tl.net through youtube. this can bring traffic through web searches and youtube. as for integration into vods and live streams, i think thats probably too much work for little payoff. the way i see it atm is just community-produced videos, so it would feel amateur at some points and wouldnt fit into professional games. previews or recaps would be better if they simply included highlights from earlier games, and not a 4-5 minute clip on a specific strategy.

Moletrap

United States1297 Posts

March 05 2008 01:02 GMT

#67

Yeah, Diggity and I have been planning this for a long time. Neither of us have had the time to implement it lately, but we have been slowly discussing and hammering out what we were going to do.. how simple we wanted to get, how detailed, what structure...

I'm not saying we've claimed rights to it or anything, I'm just backing up what Dig said 'for the record' so people don't get all "omfg idea hax" later on.

As for what Chill said, yes, we have also been doing other starcraft tutoring stuff, but also looking into this.

Edit: Also, yeah, we kindof mention some stuff in our commentaries, but as Kennigit said, if you've ever watched with someone who has NO clue what's going on at all... They need lots of initial explanation before the build orders, etc, will mean anything.

It's like when I watch War3.... I played it a little when it came out so I can appreciate battles going on, but I have no idea what's going on when I watch and don't even remember what buildings do.

mahnini

United States6862 Posts

March 05 2008 01:44 GMT

#68

How about a TL Database? Something like TLPD with community editability like wiki. We can have strat sections under which simple tutorial videos would go under as well as cover strat write-ups and pretty much everything inbetween. I guess a big issue with that is abusing the articles but I'm sure there's a way to regulate that.

prOxi.swAMi

Australia3091 Posts

March 05 2008 01:48 GMT

#69

This idea sounds really awesome. I've always wanted a way to introduce my newb CS friends to starcraft without them being all *cry cry* "too hard" *cry cry*

Sounds really good.
Should get Dyo to do the actual videos

caution.slip

United States775 Posts

March 05 2008 03:36 GMT

#70

SC wiki sounds like a good idea, and if the links need futher explanations a video can be provided

the Wiki would first of all lay a framework for what videos would be needed. If anything the wiki would be a great brain stormer

useLess

United States4781 Posts

March 06 2008 10:25 GMT

#71

I gave a few unscripted tries, but because I was playing and explaining at the same time, I think I came off as rambling too much and not being informative enough.

Pro-tip: Script out the dialogue, or at least a general idea of what to say.

sanftm00d

Austria73 Posts

March 06 2008 12:01 GMT

#72

i guess many of the things i'll write now have already been said, so i want to apologize for that.

Imo, a wikipedia kind of approach would be best, because it would enable foreign 'pros' to make a short vod, explain it a few words and upload it-the more people work on it the longer it 'lives'
On the other hand it should be a part of teamliquid if not a part of TLPD, because
teamliquid is working because of the great mods, and something as big as a tutorial-database has to ensure the same quality or it won't work. Imo there are two things that have to be done by a mod:
1) quality insurance-deleting very bad tutorials(if its a wiki everyone can contribute), restructuring bad tuts, getting in contact with the guy who made it and ecourage him to make it better etc
2) promoting the database to both 'writers'who can add value (pros semipros casters gom etc) and 'readers'...

So who will be a 'reader' of a strategic-tutorial database?
I think it wiill be people who are interested in e-sports and want to make the change to sc, there are alot of people who watch warcraft, counterstrike or we and dont get into sc because it seems to complicated.

Some days ago i watched the VOD of bisu vs flash on fantasy, with my girlfriend(she likes to play 'professional' ssbm and mario kart etc). She could recognice what was going on and that something unusual happened and that it was very breathtaking. But she didnt understand why things shaped up like this- and why the battles where different than in the other tvps she has seen (hidden expo on island, reaver harras doenst make damage, push before arbiters, etc). She frequently uses tlpd to see what happens in the scene and knows that katrina is imba tvp etc. But afterall she doenst really understand what happens in the game because she never played it and never will. I think this are the people we want to reach with the tutorial-database. People who are interested in e-sports but cant get into it because it seems to complicated.
We can suck them in on the drama, the stats and the glory through tlpd (someone who just wachted a match from flash will go on tlpd and and he will know that flash destroys everyone right now) but without tutorials on the game itself they will never get into the game part.

So please guys make it possible that my girlfriend can find out whats going on inside the game. Make it that if she searches for flash in tlpd she can find a link or something where she can find out about his tactics etc.
i wish u the best, i know teamliquid owns all and i am confident that the database will get superb.

EscPlan9

United States2777 Posts

March 06 2008 17:01 GMT

#73

I just want to echo that I also disagree that taking 5 minutes per viable build order will be of interest to the newcomers. Think again with how the poker craze started in the US. Did you hear them start off discussing Sklansky's Gap principle? I don't think so. Keep the intro video to what's going on with Starcraft to the basic elements of the game - not all the specific strategies and build orders. When people understand the different units and races features, macro, micro, multi-tasking, etc. they will begin to understand the game more. So then when a dropship full of units is killed, you can explain to them in terms they now understand - or some of the more interested ones will be able to understand it themselves.

alphafuzard

United States1610 Posts

March 17 2008 05:39 GMT

#74

I have recently been teaching some of my newb friends the beauty of sc and convincing some others to try it for the first time. One thing I have to warn you about is intricacy. I guarantee that if you go into build orders and whatnot your audience will get bored almost immediately. This is not to say that there should not be this information available. Just make sure you keep it hidden until the audience WANTS to hear about it. I tried to jump right in and explain the 2 rax expo build to and friend and he stopped me to ask what a cc is (we tend to forget how far we've come).

If this is designed to take complete, never-seen-the-game-before people and turn them into understanding viewers who can see what the players are doing, follow their strategies, and even spot possible dangers/mistakes, then there will have to be ALOT of video time. You must think back to the time when you sat behind 1234173 cannons and whored carriers, and even before then when you didnt even know what high templars were supposed to do.

I think the keys will be keeping interest and organization of the videos.

alphafuzard

United States1610 Posts

March 19 2008 02:03 GMT

#75

On March 05 2008 12:36 caution.slip wrote:
SC wiki sounds like a good idea, and if the links need futher explanations a video can be provided

the Wiki would first of all lay a framework for what videos would be needed. If anything the wiki would be a great brain stormer

liquipedia!!!

illmatic

Canada53 Posts

March 20 2008 18:40 GMT

#76

Great idea............. I have plenty of buddies who played the og SC in noobtasic BGH games with others who have never played but love to watch pro games.

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