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hey guys, im new to the TL forum and relatively new to starcraft broodwar. Being a victim to zerg mineral hacks multiple times and just getting owned by good players, (or at least good compared to me) i was wondering where i should start to get decent at playing starcraft. Is there a certain realm or gateway, whatever you call it, where you guys think a beginner could work on their game? And also i used the search fuction and found that hamachi server but all the users there seemed to never be on.
Thanks in advance, Mitch.
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Hungary11291 Posts
Hi mitch! (very creative choice of nickname)
I suppose the solution of "clan Art" which you have found is the best for starting off. The second would be, if you are a real noob, to find some others who are also starting - as long as you play with people you know, they won't hack, I hope. Thirdly, a virtually hack-free environment is available on the ICCup server (iccup.com), but there you have to enter into competition, which is good for practicing once you have reached a certain level but certainly frustrating if you are just starting.
best, Aesop
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You can start with reading through this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=60601
Then I would suggest just watch some replays to see what good players do. If you pick zerg Chill has made some very interesting vods from which you can learn alot, search for them.
To be safe from the minhackers etc ICCUP is the place to be, but if you are really noob its better to start with some public games to get your basics up. Once you have those just start massgaming on ICCUP and you'll learn the game eventually. But really keep watching replays, you can learn alot from them.
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Taiche
France1963 Posts
You might want to start looking for the sticky topics in various categories ; in the Strategy forum, have a look at The Recommended Threads that will list a few guides for beginners and other helpful ones. In the Featured Threads category, haji's Resources Threads is also a must-read as it will provide you with tools and sites that will make your life easier.
EDIT : bah, too late
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One problem with watching replays is that there are mostly "good" games posted on various replay sites and not clear strats and perfectly executed ones as they are short and not so fun to watch. Replays of 8rax BBS, 9pool and such are hard to find and thus learn. It used to be easy to find good games on WGT and somewhat still is but WGT activity is still low or dead as it seems. Sorry if this was a bit offtopic.
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IMO, if ur very very new to sc, its better to start off a bit with bgh or fastest
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Thanks for the replies, really quick! And thanks, Eatme, all input is much appreciated. The only thing i dont like about watching replays is that most require the different .exe files, but i have downloaded pretty much all the vods with 10+ seeders on the 'vods' section of tl.net. they are very helpful and i have already read a fair amount of the recommended strategy threads.
I play a fair bit with my mates and brothers but they dont care much for getting better, so i think i will start doing the ICCUP thing.
cheers!
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51449 Posts
On January 24 2008 19:13 b_unnies wrote: IMO, if ur very very new to sc, its better to start off a bit with bgh or fastest
well IMO your opinion sucks
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51449 Posts
On January 24 2008 19:19 hctim wrote: but i have downloaded pretty much all the vods with 10+ seeders on the 'vods' section of tl.net. they are very helpful and i have already read a fair amount of the recommended strategy threads.
make sure you dont burn your d/l limit live streaming also burns your data -.-
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yeah, im staying at a beach house with really fast internet and like a 25 gb limit so when im surfing i can download.
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you can download replays at wgtour.com (in the player's profiles). That way you won't get replays of outstanding games that are fun to watch, but standard play.
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Apart from how to learn and improve, I do think it's a good idea to not overwhelm you with too much nail tough 1v1's too much. Sure, you will have to play against people better than you to improve. But if you are really new getting crushed in an absurd way is not helping that much.
If you surf around the Starcraft boards online you will see quite some people asking exactly the same question. Maybe add as many of those people as friends so there is often one of them online when you log in. And then you can play against those people. No risk of mineral hacks and whatnot. Play 1v1's against them. You can also arrange matches with them of course. Soon you will find out which opponent match you the best. And you can even practice specific scenarios against each other.
I also don't think it's a bad idea to familiarize yourself more with the game through more casual games like 3v3 Hunters. People that play those are a lot worse in general than those in 1v1s. They are also micro heavy and you don't have to multitask 3 or 4 bases to have a chance nor is there a lot of strategy and timed attacks involved.
Ooh, and one tip on what to learn and practice on right now. Practicing specifically on how to macro/multitask/use hoykeys/increase your speed/APM seems to make you play better the quickest.
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On January 24 2008 19:20 GTR-2-Go wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2008 19:13 b_unnies wrote: IMO, if ur very very new to sc, its better to start off a bit with bgh or fastest well IMO your opinion sucks
BGH isnt too bad, its fastest that screw up your game senses. But if you play fastest you get to work a lot more on macro and stuff, while BGH let you test out BOs and strategies better.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
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Yeah BGH is not too bad. Players there are usually lower skill lvls than those who play 1v1 so hunters or BGH games will help you develop mechanics and hey they are fun too. If you can find regulars who are around your game lvl on something like ClanArt than you got it made heh.
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Last weeks there has been decent activity on the clan art hamachi servers, but mainly on afternoon-evening US timezones. this morning I had to kick 12 offliners out, even though I had almost emtied the server like 9 hours earlier.
So if you come to Clan Art 1//liquid early in the afternoon (your timezone) I think you should find games without too much trouble. But weekends is the best time to find games i think. Unfortunately people do not always suck as much as I would sometimes hope on that server... Many claim to be D(with plus or minus) on icc, but you can easily be D- on icc and still go 10-0 against someone who is "relatively new to sc" I believe. 
Well, try it out, and ask for advice if you lose. Most are very mannered.  So check out the Clan Art thread if you havent already. Good luck.
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Well, 3v3 sucks when you play against or with a complete newbie or when the match-ups aren't equal, which sadly is a lot of the time.
If you play on hunters, then you have a low tech micro game. On BGH you often have a more high tech game and sometimes you get to macro off two or three bases where your main should be considered as an extra base actually, which is also good practice I guess.
Fastest maps, I don't know what that is good for. They are slow and generally terrible.
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Mitch, i suggest you start your own blog, there youll get better help i think. there is a couple of good APM (action per minute) UMS (use map settings) maps you should try.
reg.
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I think a good place to start would be by watching games on any servers of 1vs1 Play/Obs type of game names.
This will allow u to observe, make sure others are as well so they can criticize on the players, this will allow u to hear stuff like - why the fuck did he do that. He should have gotten more of these. etc.,
I know this works because i played wc3 for about a week online and learnd anuff from the bm observers, not very bm but very helpful :D lol.
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http://starcraft.strategy-gaming.com/index.php is a good place for newbs. The skill level varies a lot from pretty high to very low so you will meet other players like yourself just beginning and a couple good players who know way more than enough to get you started on the right foot. Other than that try to find a friendly clan on east you can join. Teams and ladders are the best way to improve but you have to be at a certain level if you want to ladder and get something out of it.
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How can anyone on this forum call bghers lower skilled?
I hate to bring it up again, but it is a myth. BGH mopped the floor with TL.net.
They play a different game that requires less strategy, but they very often have better mechanics because they are always pressured to push their game further because they have more to do. They often have better team play as well. (This is untrue at higher levels of play obviously in BW).
But for the general player, BGH is a good thing and can help you improve your mechanics if you do not get lazy during a game and try to focus on constant production from all buildings.
What do you do to improve? Play for fun, experience is the best teacher. At your level I suppose watching replays and attempting to copy builds might help you though so in watching better players play, you get more feel of the game and see why it is so closely balanced.
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I tell you how i started learning #1 I found my favourite progamer - Hot486 (heyhey, long time ago, guys! >.<) #2 I copied all his builds and tried to play as much as him (this made my play not frustrating, but very enjoyable) #3 I started to think by myself, like "this strat is not good on this map" and stuff like that
might help you =) just find your idol hehe it's just a little bit too bad, cuz now many pros have very similar game style...
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On January 24 2008 19:13 b_unnies wrote: IMO, if ur very very new to sc, its better to start off a bit with bgh or fastest
I think this is really bad advice. I think it would probably be best for him to start off with a simple regular map, such as luna. For now I'd advice him to stay away from bgh and ESPECIALLY fastest. I think regular maps help you learn faster, and help you learn a lot of subtleties that he wont realize playing team games on bgh.
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Actually, playing some bgh could help you mechanically, but at the same time if you play bgh pub theres a chance you'll develop a turtle with cannons and mass style of play. I've had freinds who played bgh and later tried to play regular maps, and vice versa. The latter always do better, simply because regular maps teach you more than bgh will.
I think find some friends, watch replays/vods, try to analyze where you went wrong, but most importantly, have fun!
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He shouldn't be playing only BGH. You can't turtle in ordinary Hunters. And he will also be playing against people of his skill level in 1v1s.
At least ideally.
People talked about macro UMS maps. I have a friend with very low APM and not much time to play. Basically he mainly watches Korean matches. I have seen the multitask maps for T and P. Maybe I can give him that macro map one of you talked about. I tried a quick search but didn't find anything.
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CA10828 Posts
you guys greatly underestimate the skill level of some of the bgh/hunters players out there.
one time i played a 3v3 and all of the other team had 200+ apm
wtf T_T
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Agreed with Testie. Also if you look at almost every top player today, they all started off playing BGH.. obviously it helped something.
anyways if you are a total newb I'd suggest playing BGH and stuff just to learn basic skills and macro, and then progress to low money maps. when you do that watch lots of replays especially when you lose, to isolate mistakes you made and work to fix them. Watch your reps and compare with reps of other good players to see how they play, learn timings, builds, etc.
after that, just start laddering.
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BGH is good because if you only try 1v1s and get crushed horrifically again and again you will have no motivation to play and on top of that, you won't learn that much since you learn best when the skill difference is modest, i.e theyre somewhat better than you, or about even.
Also BGH lets you work a bit on doing fundamentals when you're starting out like making enough workers, macroing and also defending 2 on 1 and 3 on 1 rushes is good micro experience. Of course don't rely on it for timing and strats at all.
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1. Choose a race 2. Watch replays 3. Play a shitload of games on B.net/ICCup
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Btw I think playing micro based UMS games (1/1 or 2/2 microwars, mt, tmm, tmp blah blah) will help too, but I'm not sure how much.
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On January 25 2008 04:48 LosingID8 wrote: you guys greatly underestimate the skill level of some of the bgh/hunters players out there.
one time i played a 3v3 and all of the other team had 200+ apm
wtf T_T Yeah I have played against people from [z-zone], [name], [30D.O.M], [gm] ect and that was just normal pubbie games. If you look for good hunter games on asia (like #brood war ladder) there are rather skilled people. However normal pubbie hunters is the best option if you want to get speed and micro as a newbie. As long as you dont play 1:1 style you'll be fine. I like to think I improved quite alot when I started to play hunters. Never played hunters or BGH ect when I was starting out.
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On January 25 2008 05:45 FieryBalrog wrote: BGH is good because if you only try 1v1s and get crushed horrifically again and again you will have no motivation to play and on top of that, you won't learn that much since you learn best when the skill difference is modest, i.e theyre somewhat better than you, or about even.
Also BGH lets you work a bit on doing fundamentals when you're starting out like making enough workers, macroing and also defending 2 on 1 and 3 on 1 rushes is good micro experience. Of course don't rely on it for timing and strats at all.
This is the only comment that tells the truth about BGH.
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play whatever at first. just get used to all the units and shortcut keys and familiarize yourself with all of the races, units, spells, and buildings.
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United States20661 Posts
Reach started with BGH iirC
Then moved to teamplay
Then moved to 1v1.
So clearly it works
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On January 24 2008 18:58 Eatme wrote: One problem with watching replays is that there are mostly "good" games posted on various replay sites and not clear strats and perfectly executed ones as they are short and not so fun to watch. Replays of 8rax BBS, 9pool and such are hard to find and thus learn. It used to be easy to find good games on WGT and somewhat still is but WGT activity is still low or dead as it seems. Sorry if this was a bit offtopic.
Good post. When looking for replays, look for short games. These are most likely the ones that demonstrate flawlessly executed strats.
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On January 24 2008 19:20 GTR-2-Go wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2008 19:13 b_unnies wrote: IMO, if ur very very new to sc, its better to start off a bit with bgh or fastest well IMO your opinion sucks
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On January 25 2008 09:33 Last Romantic wrote:Reach started with BGH iirC Then moved to teamplay Then moved to 1v1. So clearly it works 
No wonder his macro is so sick. Constantly producing from 30 gateways can be a bitch :p
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Thanks everyone for the advice, And by the way, i started playing on iCCup and im D- already haha.
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lol. it's good to see that you're not taking it seriously. well, i mean, you should take it seriously, but not to the extent where it gets frustrating. just remember to always take note of what you did wrong if you lost and what standard things you did right if you win. (I say standard because you don't want to do an unorthodox strat and say "Oh! that really does work!" and start incorporating it into your standard playing style.)
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United States42682 Posts
I don't really practice anymore but I'd be happy to give you a few hours of intensive training if you wanted. I got a fair bit of help when I was starting and I find casual bw relaxing after poker. Add kwaark at gmail dot com on msn if you're interested.
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msg Zero[NaN] at us west and ill play some games with you if you want.
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On January 26 2008 11:21 hctim wrote: Thanks everyone for the advice, And by the way, i started playing on iCCup and im D- already haha.
Scout a lot, those D ranked iccup players love to cheese.
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On January 26 2008 18:19 Dr.Dragoon wrote: Scout a lot, those D ranked iccup players love to cheese.
You have no idea how many times someone tried to 1base guardian/vulture drop/DT rush me. of every 10 games that i play, at least 6 will try to cheese me.
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ive only been cheesed once this season, but then again you only need 10wins to get out of D? :|
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Korea (South)11579 Posts
t v p on blue storm at D is just cheese cheese cheese cheese cheese. When it was MOTW I got cannon rushed 4 times, proxy gates 3 times, and 1 base carrier rushed. Needles to say i won vs all of them, but they don't seem to give up. haha
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On January 26 2008 21:39 .MistiK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2008 18:19 Dr.Dragoon wrote: Scout a lot, those D ranked iccup players love to cheese.
You have no idea how many times someone tried to 1base guardian/vulture drop/DT rush me. of every 10 games that i play, at least 6 will try to cheese me.
1 base guardian? I need to try that!
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intrigue
Washington, D.C9933 Posts
i really don't recommend starting off on iccup right away for several reasons
first, it's expected that a newcomer will get raped mercilessly. it's really easy to lose hope if you're bumbling around trying to figure out hotkeys and some bitch comes in with all this stuff and kills you right away. next, it's simply not fun losing all the time. bgh with some tlnetters will get you fun wins, and you can see basic unit combinations and production at work + advice on your own play. you learn mechanics, how to watch the minimap, and basic slang or build orders. on top of that you can probably meet more people and get some tlnet contacts to make your stay here more comfortable : ]
as someone's mentioned before almost all of the good foreigners at one point played these 'low skilled' games. if i remember correctly the american idra who's going to korea to be a progamer used to be a newbie fastest map player!
i suggest getting off of icc and starting on USWest, channel op TL-West and asking for some 1v1s or 3v3s in there
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Wow, I realize this post is from a very long time ago, but I am a new player and found this thread. And since I have to wait 7 days to post my own topic I figured using this was the way to look for help.
I am wondering what the best way is to find other new or low skill players to practice playing against? I have been on bnet but I feel like when I join to play a 1v1 against someone I am 90% of the time gonna get demolished and I dont want to waste his time or my time since I am new.
I watch replays and broadcasts on youtube of proleagues (obviously they are 10000x better than me, but to learn the basic strategies) and have read a lot of posts on here to try and improve my play. I am just looking for other similar players like me so we both can practice different build orders/tactics/etc. I definitely want to get better but obviously want to mostly have fun without being berated because of my lack of experience.
If you are a new player too, please send me a message and we can set up a game. Thanks for all the help in advance and I'll continue to search thru the forums for more helpful info.
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konadora
Singapore66161 Posts
How about getting used to the game first by playing on campaign, then slowly play against Computer, and then play on ICCup with D- ranked players?
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I always thought the computer was fun to play against until i beat it 3v1 at lost temple.. Then I started with 2v2 @ europe and making with the name "2v2 lt!" I was able to have winning stats.
I hope you find a worthy opponent and perhaps a coach aswell =P I do see you have an SCV icon so maybe I should take you under my wings >_<;
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Definitely work your way up against playing computers. I still remember the days when I had trouble beating three on LT 
edit:
Also, try playing all three races, and see which one you like best. I switched races at least ten times lol
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I recommend playing against the computer a whole lot, practicing hotkeys even while you're not playing (I used to practice them while watching GOMtv) - NOT looking at the keyboard, keeping yourself challenged, and not giving up. Note, challenging yourself with something new every day/week is much more progressive than meeting short-term goals and then being comfortable for a while. Beating a D player by just overexpanding and throwing units at him is much easier than beating a D player by trying your hardest to mirror a pro build and micro effectively, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't take the harder route.
To catch my drift, at lower levels on ICCup you can be really, really, really sloppy while still being really effective. You don't want to slip into the dark crevices of playing sloppy just to win. What you want to do is try to mirror A-rank players and lose as many times as necessary to play just like they do. Instead of taking drunken steps up a flight of stairs on which you'll probably just fall asleep and never make it up, get on a bike, put it on the highest gear, and ride up the steepest hill you can find. That's what makes pros as opposed to casual players.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina1437 Posts
On January 24 2008 19:20 GTR wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2008 19:13 b_unnies wrote: IMO, if ur very very new to sc, its better to start off a bit with bgh or fastest well IMO your opinion sucks
Dude.. don't say that... J/K! If you start off with fastest/bgh they will constantly play those 2 and will just get raped when they go normal sc. Its best to start off correctly at least.
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ill play if you want, i just started too. jonnyp on iccup, pm me if you want to play, ill give ya my msn
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I'll suggest understanding the game more, by playing vs computer, or just go up to Local Area Network, start a game with a computer, and remove the computer during countdown.. Then experiment what each unit/building does; like how each unit is characterised (melee/ranged/aoe), then learn how to get defilers/mutalisks/ultralisks (teaches you on how to identify what units you will be expecting when u see the certain building), learn what each skill does (plague/emp), then probably memorise the cost of units and buildings.. Next to learn will be upgrades and hotkeys..
Once u grasp those, watch replays as how the game play for each matchups should flow, like zvz going for lingsmutascourges, and zvt going for lings muta/lurk then transition to defiler ultralings.. By this time, u will need to work on your build orders (learn and perfect one BO first), then slowly learn to multitask/micro/macro and game mechanics through more practice..
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