On May 09 2026 13:19 TT1 wrote: most of the easy QoL changes that could be made were made during the SCR build out by the classics team, theres just limitations on what you can do with the game on Bnet
BW's code is archaic so if they tried to fix or update something it would just break/create another problem and afaik now they don't have a big team working on the game to deal with that stuff (pre Microsoft that was the case at least, i dunno anything about Blizz now but i doubt that there's a dedicated team working on the game, pre Microsoft they just had like 1 guy working on Bnet updates/maintenance)
BW is limited by the code so there's many things that can't be done, or it could be something that needs a big team working on it with "carte blanche" (so they wouldn't need to get approvals from other departments which they need to, unless its for a special project like SCR was, cus BW is on Bnet so changing stuff can have an impact on other games as well)
the classics team had carte blanche during the early SCR days cus Blizzard as a whole was doing a big project around remastering BW/WC3/D2, back then they had the team and permission to mess around with w/e they wanted, the problem was that many projects either broke something else on Bnet so they would have to spend a lot of time fixing it or it was too time consuming (and they wanted to move on to remastering other games, BW was the 1st one) or it needed long term maintenance etc. (so a lot of stuff wasn't followed up on, like 2v2 ladder for example on bnet)
when the classics team left to go work on WC3 for example there was a new BW team that came (very small team and they didn't have the same freedom/resources that the classics team did, these guys also ended up leaving btw :D) and every time i spoke to them about doing minor QoL changes they always said it wasn't possible due to certain limitations..
so for example i asked if we could change the default login channels to something better so new people wouldn't be lost when they'd log into Brood War AUS-1 on US East for example with 0 ppl in the chat (the default login channel was based on your country back then), i asked if we could have default ICCup style ladder channels based on peoples ranks (Ladder B/Ladder A/Ladder S etc.) but it wasn't possible.. the best they could do was convert everything to Brood War En-1 En-2 etc. (there's many other examples but this is 1 that i clearly remember, cus i thought it would be easy to implement), still better than nothing but ideally we woulda had Brood War En-1/2/3/4 etc for non ladder players and ranked channels for ladder players so they could meet/talk to similarly skilled ppl and play customs etc.
for Fkeys in particular, i asked the classics team if they could add F1 as a camera fkey instead of it being the help menu, it makes sense cus BW doesn't have a lot of fkeys and f1 to f4 is on the same row and it's not something that would change the essence of the game too much, they said that fkeys were coded differently than the other hotkeys so they weren't able to update it as easily as the other hotkey changes
long story short is there's a lot of headaches (both bureaucratic and technical) if you wanna update the game even if you figure out good features to implement
Oh wow. So even for adding a single camera location or changing a default channel is a hustle. Well i was just thinking what they have been doing to warcraft 3. Recently they even added the old school login screen for example.And with diablo 2 new expansion. So there are most likely a team working right now in classic games. At the end of the day is very doubtful something happens. But still so weird that a game that can gather 25k people online daily get so few dev support. I know many games that would dream of such numbers lol.
removing excess colors that are too similar would be a huge quality of life improvement. I get why they added more colore, but with all due respect, the devs turned their brains off adding colors that look almost the exact same.
Changing how latency works by changing from peer to peer to server based connnections. We would have at least a 100, if not more, ms ping improvement playing long distance opponents.
Fixing hold position and stopping bugs on ranged units. This generally affects Marines, and dragoons the most. Some people think it affects goliaths air attacks but goliaths just work differently.
Pathfinding zones affect a reaver's ability to shoot at a target from a distance. This is more Scarab coding related but it would stop reavers from having to crawl closer to shoot in some areas on maps.
Vulture mine placing in groups larger than 4. Not exaclty sure how they can fix this but it is annoying when a vulture in a group does not place its mines because it cant get close enough to the exact spot that was clicked on to mine. Vultures clipping into mines it also a bother, but a side effect of their pathfinding behavior.
BTW, it was 12.5 years between StarCraft and StarCraft 2 release, and already pased almost 16 (!!) years after StarCraft 2 relese. I think someone in Korea should start lobbying for SC3 since 2 was so much crap.
Regarding to topic, the idea you cannot preview ladder while waiting for game is definitely smth what bothers me lol
They couldnt fix anything because it would CHANGE something. And since people were very vocal on the: "DO NOT CHANGE, DO NOT "FIX", KEEP THINGS HARDCORE OG", they didnt do anything. Obviously those people were in the minority, most of them probably not even playing the game. But its just Cool to pretend.
On May 09 2026 21:04 SCRVN wrote: I set a side button which is double-click, so I can select my groups better than my opponents. I am sorry about that, if you think it's unfair.
Vulture mine placing in groups larger than 4. Not exaclty sure how they can fix this but it is annoying when a vulture in a group does not place its mines because it cant get close enough to the exact spot that was clicked on to mine. Vultures clipping into mines it also a bother, but a side effect of their pathfinding behavior.
That is hotboxing. The move in unit formation command does not recorrect if any unit impacts something along the way. Think of it like an instruction set command. If it fails, it does not issue again.
On May 09 2026 20:02 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote:
Fixing hold position and stopping bugs on ranged units. This generally affects Marines, and dragoons the most. Some people think it affects goliaths air attacks but goliaths just work differently.
I have seen it from hydralisks and dragoons, also. I think it is still related to hotboxing. I see it moving its head, but not shoot because of invalid range.
I think most people would agree that Broodwar is very special, in many different ways.
You are not special. You have to bend your knee to it. Broodwar does not have to change to meet your predilections.
Every player who learns the game is dealing with the exact same set of rules and restrictions, and faces the same punishments and rewards. If you cant handle a little discomfort and want everything made easier for you then Broodwar is not for you. There is a reason the skill cap is still so high and the game is still so competitive at an insane level today.
These threads seem to show up around here every few months. It is always the same discourse: all the miraculously beautiful quirks and eccentricities and bugs which provide so much character and depth to the game are somehow classified as "bad" or "evil" or "wrong", and always for the same reason: "its too hard" (for me, or for someone else, or for some abstraction like "the new players" (oh lord in heaven, pity the new players!!)
Blizzard please just dont touch it... just dont do it.
"We all start with the same 4 workers and the same 5 fingers."- Lee Jae-dong
On May 09 2026 22:30 tankgirl wrote: I think most people would agree that Broodwar is very special, in many different ways.
You are not special. You have to bend your knee to it. Broodwar does not have to change to meet your predilections. Every player who learns the game is dealing with the exact same set of rules and restrictions, and faces the same punishments and rewards.
Blizzard please just dont touch it... just dont do it.
"We all start with the same 4 workers and the same 5 fingers."- Lee Jae-dong
The game is a logistical challenge, not an economic one the way sc2 is. Personally I prefer seeing units with different move speeds rather than ultralisks crawling at the same speed as any unit else.
that's the first time i've heard of this rally point/right click issue, i don't seem to have an issue with it
is that related to hatcheries sometimes forgetting their rally points? i remember scan asking light about this issue as well (i think he said it wasn't an issue before remastered), sometimes buildings will just forget rally points and spawn units under the building, and you have to put the rally back to your choke
but generally, i say just leave the game the same as it always has been, but give us more map tilesets/terrains/doodads to work with, because maps is how we deal with balance
so many of these suggestions are apm/balance/etc changes not quality of life
showing the unexplored map has an apm effect. occasionally you see high level players send units into fog of war wrong and it requires attention to notice and change it. it's happened in bsl, and it's happened in asl. for lower level players it happens more often, and it requires players to pay attention to their minimap, yes.
similarly the stop-stuck ranged units bug is a thing that doesnt affect people who have the attention to notice and unstuck units. it also doesnt affect people as frequently who have more experience on the game too, just by virtue of avoiding the situations where it occurs.
starcraft is a mass of emergent properties. individual bits of it might seem trivial or meaningless obstacles. but the whole of it put together makes it the great thing that it is. a game where you have to manage your attention, where situations fall apart if you don't pay attention to them closely, and a game that rewards you paying attention to everything that you do. every little "convenience" or "quality of life" feature detracts from that experience.
many people think of apm/attention as physical execution. but most people who play bw can type fast as fuck just fine. if you can type at 90wpm, then you can probably hit 400apm on a physical level. on the other hand, knowing how and where to spend your apm/attention is in more about strategy, experience, and knowledge. you'd need to know what to do, when to do it, how to do it quickly. most people don't. and so every little obstacle, even the trivial ones that seem like bullshit, are a part of the friction that makes the game function.
On May 09 2026 20:48 Berstis wrote: They couldnt fix anything because it would CHANGE something. And since people were very vocal on the: "DO NOT CHANGE, DO NOT "FIX", KEEP THINGS HARDCORE OG", they didnt do anything. Obviously those people were in the minority, most of them probably not even playing the game. But its just Cool to pretend.
This is false. I don't know where you got this story from, but it is factually wrong. Blizzard consulted the players during the remastering and what happened was the opposite.
Bla, bla, bla... Bisu literally lost the final game because of a Reaver bug. The Reaver should fired there, but it didnt. Im pretty sure he was paying attention, but was unable to do anything about it because players dont see the map as zeros and ones like machines do. How was he (and any player) supposed to know whether the Reaver would actually shoot from that exact position or not? Its basically just guesswork, which makes no sense. And also saying that stop bug for other units is a skill issue is radicolous joke.
On May 09 2026 22:48 Crimson)S(hadow wrote: that's the first time i've heard of this rally point/right click issue, i don't seem to have an issue with it
is that related to hatcheries sometimes forgetting their rally points? i remember scan asking light about this issue as well (i think he said it wasn't an issue before remastered), sometimes buildings will just forget rally points and spawn units under the building, and you have to put the rally back to your choke
but generally, i say just leave the game the same as it always has been, but give us more map tilesets/terrains/doodads to work with, because maps is how we deal with balance
This has been an issue since the rally point was introduced to the right click. And that was way before remastered as i said in my first post. I imagine you dont really use hotkeys in your gateways/ barracks ?
I think it has something to do with input delay. So basically you are controlling units in your opponent main. you press a ctrl group to produce something. Lets say Gateway or Nexus. And then do you press your ctrl group back to the unit you are controlling. In that small switch of ctrl groups the rally point of the building is now in the place you are microing your units. So now all those units that are being produced are going to the enemy base by accident. Either just blizzard give us the option to remove rally point from the right click to a side button or make the rally point like in SC2 that is very visual and present all the time. I think WC3 rally point is also very visual compared to BroodWar.
I think if you press attention to any zerg progamer specifically you will notice how they redo rallypoints almost all the time.
one of the things that makes starcraft more interesting and worthwhile than many of its rts peers is its capacity to surprise people. and part of that, is how "janky" and filled with weird interactions the game is.
every "bad surprise" for one player is a *good surprise* for the opponent. every time you play against someone and their reaver doesn't fire or their hydralisk gets stuck or whatever, you have an experience where you survived something you didn't think you would.
i think a lot about this moment from 6 years ago when sacsri accidentally placed his pool in a way to where his drones pop out of the extractor all messed up (timestamp is 1:16:09):
i think this moment is a really important part of why starcraft is great actually.
the newer philosophy in modern game design is to view this moment as a flaw in the game, and that "fixing" this or providing visual feedback when placing the pool would be good game design. while they mostly havent been mentioned here (other than reavers) a lot of times changes to pathfinding or building placement are thought of as "quality of life" and not an important part of the game. i really strongly disagree.
things like this being possible gives the whole game this tense feeling, like you have to pay attention to everything, or else the game will fall apart from under you. it creates this delicious emotional tension, specifically because your "quality of life" is bad and fucked up.
an incredibly important part of what makes starcraft interesting is how incredibly uncertain it can be to parse a situation just by glancing at it. while the game itself is very visually clear and crisp, the *meaning* of what you're looking at it is very ambiguous.
for example, this is part of how players can shock you when they win a fight you never thought they could. first, often you did not have the ability to just look at the thing and see what they saw, and took advantage of. second, even if you see it, there's ambiguity about: will the player see it? they have fog of war, limited attention/apm, etc.
many of starcraft's competitors do things like put range circles on the ground that trivialize positioning, but their communities see this as, again, "quality of life". a quiet neutral, slightly positive thing, that would cause no terran player to ever accidentally misplace their siege tank in sunken range, no zerg player to accidentally lose hydras to cannons. but you try to mention this concept to those games' communities and their confused about what good could even come out of not having that kind of display.
there was a recent high level game where a player walled in their own units on accident, and it affected the game. there's a jinjin video showing pro gamers not knowing if the wall is going to wall or not! while nobody's suggested it, we see how starcraft 2 unified building edge size. and there could be a visual indicator too, of information like this:
the inconsistencies in this kind of thing are often thought of as this weird, unfair relic of "bad old game design".
but think about how many games you've seen that were determined by unexpected, unseen, interactions in this. experienced players and commentators are caught off guard by wall-ins working/not working! think about the emotional tension!
the mass of difficult-to-parse inconsistencies makes starcraft better
On May 09 2026 22:48 Crimson)S(hadow wrote: that's the first time i've heard of this rally point/right click issue, i don't seem to have an issue with it
is that related to hatcheries sometimes forgetting their rally points? i remember scan asking light about this issue as well (i think he said it wasn't an issue before remastered), sometimes buildings will just forget rally points and spawn units under the building, and you have to put the rally back to your choke
but generally, i say just leave the game the same as it always has been, but give us more map tilesets/terrains/doodads to work with, because maps is how we deal with balance
This has been an issue since the rally point was introduced to the right click. And that was way before remastered as i said in my first post. I imagine you dont really use hotkeys in your gateways/ barracks ?
I think it has something to do with input delay. So basically you are controlling units in your opponent main. you press a ctrl group to produce something. Lets say Gateway or Nexus. And then do you press your ctrl group back to the unit you are controlling. In that small switch of ctrl groups the rally point of the building is now in the place you are microing your units. So now all those units that are being produced are going to the enemy base by accident. Either just blizzard give us the option to remove rally point from the right click to a side button or make the rally point like in SC2 that is very visual and present all the time. I think WC3 rally point is also very visual compared to BroodWar.
I think if you press attention to any zerg progamer specifically you will notice how they redo rallypoints almost all the time.
Skill issue. Foreigners shouldnt be blaming the game for their sloppy messy input problems when they're playing in TR 16 High (or whatever people are getting these days) with someone 3000km away. You need to practice in single player. The game has a cadence. Do you not like the cadence? Then the game is not for you.
Thats ok. Blizzard Entertainment has other games, as you pointed out. If you feel that Broodwar doesn't give you enough entertainment, feel free to migrate over to SC2. I hear that after balance patch number 149023833.34836438 its really doing great lately.
And yes, most prosgamers players cycle their rally points. Are you certain it is for the reason that you think?
On May 09 2026 22:48 Crimson)S(hadow wrote: that's the first time i've heard of this rally point/right click issue, i don't seem to have an issue with it
is that related to hatcheries sometimes forgetting their rally points? i remember scan asking light about this issue as well (i think he said it wasn't an issue before remastered), sometimes buildings will just forget rally points and spawn units under the building, and you have to put the rally back to your choke
but generally, i say just leave the game the same as it always has been, but give us more map tilesets/terrains/doodads to work with, because maps is how we deal with balance
This has been an issue since the rally point was introduced to the right click. And that was way before remastered as i said in my first post. I imagine you dont really use hotkeys in your gateways/ barracks ?
I think it has something to do with input delay. So basically you are controlling units in your opponent main. you press a ctrl group to produce something. Lets say Gateway or Nexus. And then do you press your ctrl group back to the unit you are controlling. In that small switch of ctrl groups the rally point of the building is now in the place you are microing your units. So now all those units that are being produced are going to the enemy base by accident. Either just blizzard give us the option to remove rally point from the right click to a side button or make the rally point like in SC2 that is very visual and present all the time. I think WC3 rally point is also very visual compared to BroodWar.
I think if you press attention to any zerg progamer specifically you will notice how they redo rallypoints almost all the time.
Skill issue. Foreigners shouldnt be blaming the game for their sloppy messy input problems when they're playing in TR 16 High (or whatever people are getting these days) with someone 3000km away. You need to practice in single player. The game has a cadence. Do you not like the cadence? Then the game is not for you.
Thats ok. Blizzard Entertainment has other games, as you pointed out. If you feel that Broodwar doesn't give you enough entertainment, feel free to migrate over to SC2. I hear that after balance patch number 149023833.34836438 its really doing great lately.
And yes, most prosgamers players cycle their rally points. Are you certain it is for the reason that you think?
Dont be so passionate about this stuff. Even Jaedong has this issues with rally point. Overlords and drones running into canons. Im not blindly coming here to complain about this stuff cuz im a foreigner that is trash at the game lol.
In fact. U proly noticed in countless games how all of sudden a player messup the rally point with a random building right ? and caster point out oh he messed up his rally point. Well in fact is not something he even noticed he did. It just happened by accident for the reason i explained above.
EPT![[image loading]](https://liquipedia.net/commons/images/1/1b/Terran_Building_Sizes.jpg)
