EPTMaybe it wouldn't work, I don't know, I just thought of it...I just thought a tiny increase in 3rd distance would make a much more significant impact on Terran getting their 3rd than it would affect anything in ZvP. In reading this thread I see a lot of people saying that the problem with the match up hierarchy is that PvT is close to equal which messes up the balance since it's supposed to be Protoss's strong match up.
FlaSh Explains Why There is No Protoss Bonjwas - Page 6
| Forum Index > BW General |
|
ZFcrush
1 Post
Maybe it wouldn't work, I don't know, I just thought of it...I just thought a tiny increase in 3rd distance would make a much more significant impact on Terran getting their 3rd than it would affect anything in ZvP. In reading this thread I see a lot of people saying that the problem with the match up hierarchy is that PvT is close to equal which messes up the balance since it's supposed to be Protoss's strong match up. | ||
|
Piste
6109 Posts
| ||
|
Timebon3s
524 Posts
Random will always have a leg up when playing vs a spesific race. Then everyone would pick Random to not be at a disadvantage. Then all games would be RvR and nobody could complain about anything. | ||
|
vOdToasT
Sweden2858 Posts
On May 27 2023 08:12 ZFcrush wrote: I wonder if you could boost Protoss's results by making maps such that the 3rd base is ever so slightly further away than they are in your standard tournament map. My thinking is that it would make PvT slightly more Protoss favored without affecting ZvP very much. It would make Protoss defending their 3rd a little harder PvZ, but perhaps a tiny increase in 3rd distance might not affect PvZ a whole lot since by the time Protoss gets their 3rd they usually have a pretty big army and a lot of PvZ has Protoss fighting for a long time on 2 base anyway. Maybe it wouldn't work, I don't know, I just thought of it...I just thought a tiny increase in 3rd distance would make a much more significant impact on Terran getting their 3rd than it would affect anything in ZvP. In reading this thread I see a lot of people saying that the problem with the match up hierarchy is that PvT is close to equal which messes up the balance since it's supposed to be Protoss's strong match up. Eclipse is right down the middle at 50% PvT and has a far away third | ||
|
vOdToasT
Sweden2858 Posts
On May 27 2023 14:52 Piste wrote: How bout having match up specific maps? Would propably result in a lot of complaining from the losing race even when the results were determined by skill rather than map imba. Instead, just strive for an even map pool overall. If one map has 55% in one matchup, then another map in the same pool should have 55% for the other race, so that every matchup in total is at 50%. | ||
|
MaGic~PhiL
Germany7334 Posts
On May 27 2023 17:46 Timebon3s wrote: The natural evolution of SC:BW is for everyone to realise that Random is the best race. Random will always have a leg up when playing vs a spesific race. Then everyone would pick Random to not be at a disadvantage. Then all games would be RvR and nobody could complain about anything. Of course the best race is Random by A LOT.. but it is downright impossible to play Random as well as one race.. I mean just count how many match ups you need to be able to play at top pro level.. So basically we can ignore this one entirely.. rofl | ||
|
XenOsky
Chile2041 Posts
On May 27 2023 17:46 Timebon3s wrote: The natural evolution of SC:BW is for everyone to realise that Random is the best race. Random will always have a leg up when playing vs a spesific race. Then everyone would pick Random to not be at a disadvantage. Then all games would be RvR and nobody could complain about anything. ppl would complain about RNG, "you won cause of ZvP, lucky roll" kind of argument. | ||
|
TMNT
959 Posts
| ||
|
Timebon3s
524 Posts
Only way to find out is to make a big RvR tournament with a big prize pool. You’re all wrong, this would be amazing. You’re just stuck in an old mindset:D | ||
|
bovienchien
Vietnam1108 Posts
Game 1: Main race vs main race Next games: winner plays main race, loser plays off race. Or it's opposite. This thing reduces important of race. We have so many ways to players play more than 1 race. They will practice more and we have more amazing/fun matchup/game. Example: Players have to choose their race (main race is only maximum 2 times) for each round before tournament starts. I play Terran, I will choose Ro24 (T), 16 (P), 8(P), 4(P), Final (T) | ||
|
darktreb
United States3014 Posts
Both Flash and Jaedong achieved the comparable level for TvX and ZvX respectively, combined with the drive to be and stay #1, at least for some period of time. And Jaedong's period of that was partly if not largely cut short by Flash achieving that.
No Protoss has ever checked all of the above boxes at the same time. The closest player is Bisu, who was dominant at PvZ and PvP at times, and at the same time for at least a brief moment in history. Bisu also achieved a very high PvT ELO from executing the right game plans and being more skilled than a large number of proleague opponents. But Bisu never really understood PvT the way Stork did, or had the final level of battle execution Jangbi did. So he was never able to reach the PvT level needed to rise to that final level.
Is the lack of Protoss player checking all those boxes due to Protoss being worse? Given that different Protoss players have been able to achieve the bonjwa-esque PvX level for different matchups, it seems like the issue is the challenge of combining all these skills at the same time. That said, it's possible that it's simply "harder" for Protoss to reach this level simultaneously for its matchups, than other races. The discussion should at least involve this question. | ||
|
TMNT
959 Posts
Here's his Kespa record from TLPD: vT: 128-75 (63.05%) vZ: 133-53 (71.51%) vP: 110-62 (63.95%) Flash is out of this world, so here's Jaedong: vT: 172-101 (63.00%) vZ: 164-61 (72.89%) vP: 126-61 (67.38%) Here's Stork PvT: 151-78 (65.94%) You can see that Bisu's PvT was not that different to Stork's. And Jaedong's level in different matchups was not that equal too. But to be honest, here we are only talking about the absolute no.1 of each race so it could be totally by chance that Bisu is not as all-rounded as Flash and Jaedong. If we expand to the top 5/10 of each race, the story for Terran and Zerg players are not that different to Protoss. Let's just get back to the table I made earlier: ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/PHZ9nFv.png) You can see all top Terran players are better at TvZ than TvP. And likewise, all Zergs are better at ZvP than ZvT. So apart from a few selected players, no one in this game can be that all-rounded in all matchups. | ||
| ||
