I get that all the BW purists will probably think this idea is dumb but good god I'd love to see some pro Bo3+ where ZvZ has arbitrary rules placed on them. Specifically only that matchup. Yeah its a fantasy where virtually everyone would complain except for maybe casual viewers/fans but just, the idea of in a Bo3/Bo5/Bo7 making a rule "each opponent can only use mutalisks in 1 game" (or maybe allow for 2 games in Bo7) or hell - even just not allowing mutalisk use at all (specifically, only in ZvZ) would be way more interesting.
Maybe I don't know enough of ZvZ and a no muta condition would just make it lings v lings but I bet if you forced the pros to play without muta for long enough a new meta would emerge where they'd learn how to grow the mid-game beyond just mass ling and we'd actually get to see hydra/lurker, maybe ultra/defiler at some point?
Plus allowing each player in a series use muta once creates maybe some mind game potential? Maybe one player is better at using muta on Map 2 so they deal with a loss on Map 1. Even if in the end its just trading a win each, at least game 3 will have a completely different skill-set and interaction between the pros where they have to navigate not using mutas.
I am a daily consumer of BW content watching casts or livestreams for 6+ years now from a a couple different sources and honestly, I think I can name 3-4 specific ZvZ games Ive seen out of literally hundreds that were actually exciting. I get that maybe a BW connoisseur will be like "Oh this ZvZ is actually great because of this one extra moving shot the mutalisk got/this one crazy scourge hit/dodge that happened" but that couldn't be more boring after years of watching lol. A 10-minute game where a single dice roll muta micro decision wins the game (cuz lets face it, when comparing the top 6 zergs they're all *pretty* close to equal muta micro skill).
but actually there might be for fun series like this, BSL had a tour like that banning some units in mirror MUs But how boring would hydra/lurker vs hydra/lurker be? there is no micro, a move into each other, bury the lurker. Once you have enough lurkers it basically becomes a TvT with no air. Not to mention that to not straight up die to lings with hydras you d need to turtle pretty hard, so it d be lurk/sunk/hydra vs lurk/sunk/hydra
This could be entertaining, I don’t think it should necessary be implemented into the big tournaments though. I’d imagine the Protoss players would demand that their mirrors also had special rules because of build order RPS or something like that
We've had some BSL tournaments which imposed special rules on mirror match ups.
No Muta ZvZ, No reaver PvP, no siege TvT
This is the only VOD I could find, it's two TvTs without tanks:
There have also been BSL games (I think in BSL15) where some ZvZs ended up using hydras, lurkers, swarm at the very least.
Alternatively, you could also organise a show match between two Zergs (non-Korean) with such rules quite easily. With Koreans you could probably get it done, too, if you contact the right people and offer some prize money accordingly.
I've seen suggested somewhere before maybe using specific ZvZ maps that had things like perm dark swarms in certain spots on maps etc to make mutas less powerful. I think that would be pretty interesting.
There's a much finer art to muta control than there is ling or hydra control. Without mutas it will just be ling vs ling into hydra/lurk vs hydra/lurk.
No mutalisk or no spire is a bit extreme. Splash damage spores could work, but probably too radical.
If I could do anything I wanted to, I would try to make all the hydra den upgrades (speed, range, lurker aspect) free and instant (with aspect still requiring lair). It might be enough to break out of the low-econ mutalisk dominance.
On April 15 2023 03:04 Ideas wrote: I've seen suggested somewhere before maybe using specific ZvZ maps that had things like perm dark swarms in certain spots on maps etc to make mutas less powerful. I think that would be pretty interesting.
I've gone as far as saying every match up should be played on specific maps.
This would improve balance a lot.
People prefer seeing the same stuff over and over and over and over and over and over and over again with 1-2% difference.
ASTL is as far as it gets in terms of non standard and even that was full of 1v1s...
Cool! I didn't think Id actually get this many responses to this lol.
Yeah, I think because I haven't played Z (I play P or T) I haven't encountered or seen what hydra/lurker mirrors could be in terms of boredom. I saw someone post here that it'd be like TvT with tanks, just with hydra/lurk/swarm. And maybe thatd be boring but I gotta say, Im down to see that haha at least to break up the constant 7 minute ZvZs I have to watch. TvT is more like starcraft chess because of siege mode. I could see how some find it boring (even I do sometimes) but controlling certain areas and knowing where to push and sac tanks for positional gains is pretty entertaining.
The special maps for mirror matchups is an idea I've never heard of - that would be pretty cool. I mean, at the end of the day I just want to see ZvZ go the f-ing distance sometimes. I want to see Hive, I want to see 3-4 bases. If muta vs muta could get me there I dont care lol its just like, any tournament I see Im like "Oh great a ZvZ" cuz I know its going to be a 20 minute series with 3-4 games played.
EPT
