• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 22:08
CEST 04:08
KST 11:08
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8
Community News
StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026)24Weekly Cups (Sept 21-27): herO and ByuN double2Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple3BSL Season 2313Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down1
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026) StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon Weekly Cups (Sept 21-27): herO and ByuN double Recent Patches and the Future Stellar Fest 1 Replay Pack
Tourneys
Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) 2026 GSTL Grand Finals SC2 INu's Battles#21 [ 3-Days tournament ] ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts Mutation # 544 Double Trouble Mutation # 543 Enhanced Defenses
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Bot on ladder a Announcement on the JEDI Ringing Where can I find Flash replays that work? Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon?
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro8 Day 4 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Ro8 Day 3 [ASL22] Ro8 Day 2
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Zero Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread All you football fans (soccer)! Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Violent-Cooperative Play and…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8558 users

[Suggestion]Can we have special maps only for ZVZ?

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
Rovant1c
Profile Joined October 2014
China72 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-06-15 07:52:20
June 15 2022 07:22 GMT
#1
Hello everyone,Starcraft is almost a perfect game,but we all know that zvz 's not perfect.

Mutalisk is cool,but we also want to see Hydralisk/Lurker/Defiler/Ultralisk…Also I want the game to be longer than 15 minutes~
If the ASL Final is bo7 zvz,I bet you'll shout out “Oh no,come on, no zvz 7 games !".

But,If we make some changes directly(like reduce Mutalisk's damage) ,it would affect zvt/zvp.

BW is a classic game more than 20 years.We can't do anything to disrupt the balance.


So,I think we could design a special version for each map,only for ZVZ(like Fighting Spirit zvz version/Circuit Breaker zvz version).

In this map,you can reduce Mutalisk's damage/speed,or remove the glaive wurm,or change it's type to big unit...etc.maybe let the pros decide how to balance.

The most importing thing is,this will not have any effect on zvt/zvp's balance and zvz of course.

I don't think there is much difficulty in map design technology~

now
If you play zvt/zvp,use “Fighting Spirit normal version”
If you play zvz,use “Fighting Spirit zvz version”

come to an end,yeah I'm so bored~
[sc1f]eonzerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Belgium7087 Posts
June 15 2022 17:31 GMT
#2
Imagine having Kerrigan as starting hero that shutdown any muta.
Volka
Profile Joined December 2010
Argentina412 Posts
June 15 2022 18:54 GMT
#3
If something like this were to be implemented, I would go for a more subtle change. Perhaps reduced gas main/natural.
http://www.starsite.com.ar
t2azor
Profile Joined April 2017
32 Posts
June 15 2022 21:08 GMT
#4
buff spores? make ensare more accessible?
ThunderJunk
Profile Joined December 2015
United States741 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-06-15 21:17:28
June 15 2022 21:17 GMT
#5
Same maps, but just have neutral aggressive valks patrolling all the cliffs
I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.
Rovant1c
Profile Joined October 2014
China72 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-06-16 08:01:47
June 16 2022 07:47 GMT
#6
Thanks, valks,Kerrigan or Jim Raynor,really imaginative.

But,we dont like muta vs muta,it does not mean remove that unit.Ideally,Bo5,you could see muta/Hydra/defiler each time,that's great.

Just like PVP,first game drak,2nd Reaver,3rd Hightemplar.Wow,nobody likes a cookie cutter game, right?


What I'm emphasizing is a way to modify zvz without disrupting balance,not a specific solution to the problem.

Also in TVT,the game is too long.We can make a special TVT map, do something to reduce the game time.

Like adjust the 3rd/4th base minerals/gas 5000 to 4000,then “Battlecruiser vs Battlecruiser”30min+ games may be less.

And the most importing thing is,this will not have any effect on tvz/tvp.
Leonix
Profile Joined June 2019
161 Posts
June 20 2022 11:54 GMT
#7
i have a much better idea, put trasparent dark swarm at certain position like minerals and gas.
t2azor
Profile Joined April 2017
32 Posts
June 21 2022 08:49 GMT
#8
spores do air splash GG
PaxViaAtomi
Profile Joined November 2021
United States17 Posts
June 21 2022 09:46 GMT
#9
I like this idea. I've had similar thoughts about map design but my idea went further with separate maps for even more match-ups. We used to get a lot of strange and quirky maps earlier in the game's life but now maps are much more standardized. From my understanding, the biggest reason map makers are now more conservative in their experimentation is because of balance. After all, nobody wants to play on an imbalanced map. Once the novelty of a map gimmick wears off, people start to dislike the map and complain about how awful it is to play on.

Currently in Starcraft, a map must be (more or less) balanced for all 9 match-ups, meaning a map maker is hugely constrained in any changes they can make on a map. When a wacky map is scrapped for being too imbalanced, sometimes it is just one match-up that is blatantly unfair but it's not obvious whether the others are as well. It's easy to see (or at least convince oneself) that certain kinds of maps are impossible to balance for all three races. That doesn't mean these maps can't be balanced for some of the match-ups (or be tweaked to be balanced).

Mirror match-ups seem to be the logical place to start, since the worst that can happen is an imbalanced or degenerate strategy becomes dominant but overall race balance isn't affected (in terms of one race winning more than another). To get going, however, requires both competent map makers (which I am not) to experiment with these new ideas and a large enough community willing to play these maps and provide constructive feedback. Perhaps if enough people like the idea, it might spread and gain traction for others to start considering it at least for fun or something. We have, to my knowledge, never tried to balance a map for just one or a subset of the match-ups. This game is old - many people love it just the way it is - but I think this is something interesting that can be explored, fully community-driven, without making any changes to what already exists.
smilevideo1
Profile Joined May 2021
3 Posts
June 21 2022 10:34 GMT
#10
make a map that has no high ground or unpathable terrain and mutas will do much less
Crimson)S(hadow
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
Philippines954 Posts
June 22 2022 23:32 GMT
#11
On June 16 2022 03:54 Volka wrote:
If something like this were to be implemented, I would go for a more subtle change. Perhaps reduced gas main/natural.


what if the map started off with depleted gas in main? or min-only main
"It's the end of the BW era which i devoted everything to for 10 years. I tried playing sc2, but my BW memories run too deep; I felt like I was playing an entirely different game" -ToSsGirL
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 7h 52m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 148
Nina 76
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 13254
Rain 2253
Artosis 636
Dewaltoss 32
NaDa 22
Bale 21
Dota 2
monkeys_forever547
NeuroSwarm161
League of Legends
Doublelift4743
Counter-Strike
taco 527
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox1651
ArmadaUGS282
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor1296
WinterStarcraft506
Other Games
summit1g7732
Day[9].tv725
JimRising 628
PiGStarcraft189
Maynarde163
C9.Mang0152
ViBE121
ZombieGrub3
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick885
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream148
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 107
• davetesta31
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki11
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• Day9tv725
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
7h 52m
OSC
10h 52m
Stellar Fest
10h 52m
OSC
21h 52m
Stellar Fest
1d 10h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
Online Event
2 days
FEL
2 days
AI Arena Tournament
2 days
BSL: Ladder Tournament
2 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
INu's Battles
3 days
herO vs Classic
Percival vs Rogue
BSL Open Qualifier
3 days
BSL Open Qualifier
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
WardiTV Weekly
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
INu's Battles
5 days
SHIN vs Cure
ByuN vs Zoun
PiGosaur Cup
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-09-27
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Calamity Invitational

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Custodian Cup
Copium Cup
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.