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genuinely surprised that Terran outnumbers Zerg. it's relatively small and probably skewed by relatively inactive F rank accounts, but in any case surprising
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On April 17 2021 04:27 onlystar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2021 04:25 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On April 17 2021 03:56 onlystar wrote:On April 17 2021 03:55 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On April 17 2021 03:34 onlystar wrote:
and besides you can judge the S rank statistics by itself dont need to include the rest of the ladder perse
it gives you what it is S rank race distribution in S. Well if 42-43% of the whole ladder is playing P then P is actually underrepresented at the top rank. 2% doesn't seem that significant of an amount in any case so the results are in line with what you would expect. keep in mind we are speaking about the top 1% here so just having a bigger player base of protoss users doesnt make a big factor here its remarkable that of those 1% there is an abundance of protoss players What does this even mean If half the population plays a race and we assume perfect balance across all races, then we would expect half the population will be that race at the top level. okay except no game is perfectly balanced
Yep and that's why there's 43% Protoss players overall but only 41% Protoss in S rank. If it were perfect you'd see exactly 43% Protoss in S rank.
Protoss has ~10% more players than the other races in S because overall they have ~10% more players than the other races, not because of maps or whatever.
It's like there are 1 billion Chinese men compared to 150 million US men. It's because the Chinese population is freaking 2 billions, not because Chinese parents favor boys over girls more than US parents. What's hard to understand?
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On April 17 2021 04:36 TT1 wrote:
balance is only relevant at the highest level because they're the ones who actually play the game properly, everyone else is just looking to blame something other than themselves
you'd feel better about yourself if you played a moba ^^
It's not so much pure game or unit balance I think it's also that Protoss is a easier race to play in terms of mechanics and micro which gives Protoss a slight advantage over a comparable Zerg or Terran player that has the same skill and that affects players in all levels.
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On April 17 2021 07:30 TMNT wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2021 04:27 onlystar wrote:On April 17 2021 04:25 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On April 17 2021 03:56 onlystar wrote:On April 17 2021 03:55 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On April 17 2021 03:34 onlystar wrote:
and besides you can judge the S rank statistics by itself dont need to include the rest of the ladder perse
it gives you what it is S rank race distribution in S. Well if 42-43% of the whole ladder is playing P then P is actually underrepresented at the top rank. 2% doesn't seem that significant of an amount in any case so the results are in line with what you would expect. keep in mind we are speaking about the top 1% here so just having a bigger player base of protoss users doesnt make a big factor here its remarkable that of those 1% there is an abundance of protoss players What does this even mean If half the population plays a race and we assume perfect balance across all races, then we would expect half the population will be that race at the top level. okay except no game is perfectly balanced Yep and that's why there's 43% Protoss players overall but only 41% Protoss in S rank. If it were perfect you'd see exactly 43% Protoss in S rank. Protoss has ~10% more players than the other races in S because overall they have ~10% more players than the other races, not because of maps or whatever. It's like there are 1 billion Chinese men compared to 150 million US men. It's because the Chinese population is freaking 2 billions, not because Chinese parents favor boys over girls more than US parents. What's hard to understand?
One of the worst possible analogies because Chinese parents DO favor boys over girls LOL, is this a Chinese shill account??
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_women_of_China
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On April 17 2021 09:12 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2021 07:30 TMNT wrote:On April 17 2021 04:27 onlystar wrote:On April 17 2021 04:25 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On April 17 2021 03:56 onlystar wrote:On April 17 2021 03:55 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On April 17 2021 03:34 onlystar wrote:
and besides you can judge the S rank statistics by itself dont need to include the rest of the ladder perse
it gives you what it is S rank race distribution in S. Well if 42-43% of the whole ladder is playing P then P is actually underrepresented at the top rank. 2% doesn't seem that significant of an amount in any case so the results are in line with what you would expect. keep in mind we are speaking about the top 1% here so just having a bigger player base of protoss users doesnt make a big factor here its remarkable that of those 1% there is an abundance of protoss players What does this even mean If half the population plays a race and we assume perfect balance across all races, then we would expect half the population will be that race at the top level. okay except no game is perfectly balanced Yep and that's why there's 43% Protoss players overall but only 41% Protoss in S rank. If it were perfect you'd see exactly 43% Protoss in S rank. Protoss has ~10% more players than the other races in S because overall they have ~10% more players than the other races, not because of maps or whatever. It's like there are 1 billion Chinese men compared to 150 million US men. It's because the Chinese population is freaking 2 billions, not because Chinese parents favor boys over girls more than US parents. What's hard to understand? One of the worst possible analogies because Chinese parents DO favor boys over girls LOL, is this a Chinese shill account?? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_women_of_China
Read my sentence again and find in which part I say they do not, alright Mr Big Brain?
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On April 17 2021 11:21 TMNT wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2021 09:12 Jealous wrote:On April 17 2021 07:30 TMNT wrote:On April 17 2021 04:27 onlystar wrote:On April 17 2021 04:25 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On April 17 2021 03:56 onlystar wrote:On April 17 2021 03:55 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On April 17 2021 03:34 onlystar wrote:
and besides you can judge the S rank statistics by itself dont need to include the rest of the ladder perse
it gives you what it is S rank race distribution in S. Well if 42-43% of the whole ladder is playing P then P is actually underrepresented at the top rank. 2% doesn't seem that significant of an amount in any case so the results are in line with what you would expect. keep in mind we are speaking about the top 1% here so just having a bigger player base of protoss users doesnt make a big factor here its remarkable that of those 1% there is an abundance of protoss players What does this even mean If half the population plays a race and we assume perfect balance across all races, then we would expect half the population will be that race at the top level. okay except no game is perfectly balanced Yep and that's why there's 43% Protoss players overall but only 41% Protoss in S rank. If it were perfect you'd see exactly 43% Protoss in S rank. Protoss has ~10% more players than the other races in S because overall they have ~10% more players than the other races, not because of maps or whatever. It's like there are 1 billion Chinese men compared to 150 million US men. It's because the Chinese population is freaking 2 billions, not because Chinese parents favor boys over girls more than US parents. What's hard to understand? One of the worst possible analogies because Chinese parents DO favor boys over girls LOL, is this a Chinese shill account?? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_women_of_China Read my sentence again and find in which part I say they do not, alright Mr Big Brain?
" not because Chinese parents favor boys over girls more than US parents. "
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On April 17 2021 11:21 TMNT wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2021 09:12 Jealous wrote:On April 17 2021 07:30 TMNT wrote:On April 17 2021 04:27 onlystar wrote:On April 17 2021 04:25 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On April 17 2021 03:56 onlystar wrote:On April 17 2021 03:55 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On April 17 2021 03:34 onlystar wrote:
and besides you can judge the S rank statistics by itself dont need to include the rest of the ladder perse
it gives you what it is S rank race distribution in S. Well if 42-43% of the whole ladder is playing P then P is actually underrepresented at the top rank. 2% doesn't seem that significant of an amount in any case so the results are in line with what you would expect. keep in mind we are speaking about the top 1% here so just having a bigger player base of protoss users doesnt make a big factor here its remarkable that of those 1% there is an abundance of protoss players What does this even mean If half the population plays a race and we assume perfect balance across all races, then we would expect half the population will be that race at the top level. okay except no game is perfectly balanced Yep and that's why there's 43% Protoss players overall but only 41% Protoss in S rank. If it were perfect you'd see exactly 43% Protoss in S rank. Protoss has ~10% more players than the other races in S because overall they have ~10% more players than the other races, not because of maps or whatever. It's like there are 1 billion Chinese men compared to 150 million US men. It's because the Chinese population is freaking 2 billions, not because Chinese parents favor boys over girls more than US parents. What's hard to understand? One of the worst possible analogies because Chinese parents DO favor boys over girls LOL, is this a Chinese shill account?? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_women_of_China Read my sentence again and find in which part I say they do not, alright Mr Big Brain?
He's right. Reread your own post lol.
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On April 17 2021 07:30 TMNT wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2021 04:27 onlystar wrote:On April 17 2021 04:25 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On April 17 2021 03:56 onlystar wrote:On April 17 2021 03:55 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On April 17 2021 03:34 onlystar wrote:
and besides you can judge the S rank statistics by itself dont need to include the rest of the ladder perse
it gives you what it is S rank race distribution in S. Well if 42-43% of the whole ladder is playing P then P is actually underrepresented at the top rank. 2% doesn't seem that significant of an amount in any case so the results are in line with what you would expect. keep in mind we are speaking about the top 1% here so just having a bigger player base of protoss users doesnt make a big factor here its remarkable that of those 1% there is an abundance of protoss players What does this even mean If half the population plays a race and we assume perfect balance across all races, then we would expect half the population will be that race at the top level. okay except no game is perfectly balanced Yep and that's why there's 43% Protoss players overall but only 41% Protoss in S rank. If it were perfect you'd see exactly 43% Protoss in S rank. Protoss has ~10% more players than the other races in S because overall they have ~10% more players than the other races, not because of maps or whatever. It's like there are 1 billion Chinese men compared to 150 million US men. It's because the Chinese population is freaking 2 billions, not because Chinese parents favor boys over girls more than US parents. What's hard to understand?
This analogy is so bad, it borders on harmful misinformation/propaganda.
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On April 17 2021 12:42 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2021 11:21 TMNT wrote:On April 17 2021 09:12 Jealous wrote:On April 17 2021 07:30 TMNT wrote:On April 17 2021 04:27 onlystar wrote:On April 17 2021 04:25 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On April 17 2021 03:56 onlystar wrote:On April 17 2021 03:55 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On April 17 2021 03:34 onlystar wrote:
and besides you can judge the S rank statistics by itself dont need to include the rest of the ladder perse
it gives you what it is S rank race distribution in S. Well if 42-43% of the whole ladder is playing P then P is actually underrepresented at the top rank. 2% doesn't seem that significant of an amount in any case so the results are in line with what you would expect. keep in mind we are speaking about the top 1% here so just having a bigger player base of protoss users doesnt make a big factor here its remarkable that of those 1% there is an abundance of protoss players What does this even mean If half the population plays a race and we assume perfect balance across all races, then we would expect half the population will be that race at the top level. okay except no game is perfectly balanced Yep and that's why there's 43% Protoss players overall but only 41% Protoss in S rank. If it were perfect you'd see exactly 43% Protoss in S rank. Protoss has ~10% more players than the other races in S because overall they have ~10% more players than the other races, not because of maps or whatever. It's like there are 1 billion Chinese men compared to 150 million US men. It's because the Chinese population is freaking 2 billions, not because Chinese parents favor boys over girls more than US parents. What's hard to understand? One of the worst possible analogies because Chinese parents DO favor boys over girls LOL, is this a Chinese shill account?? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_women_of_China Read my sentence again and find in which part I say they do not, alright Mr Big Brain? " not because Chinese parents favor boys over girls more than US parents. "
Lol it literally says "not because of X", with X being "Chinese parents DO favor...".
X is not the reason does not equal X not being true. What is wrong with your logic?
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On April 17 2021 12:42 fgt4w wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2021 11:21 TMNT wrote:On April 17 2021 09:12 Jealous wrote:On April 17 2021 07:30 TMNT wrote:On April 17 2021 04:27 onlystar wrote:On April 17 2021 04:25 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On April 17 2021 03:56 onlystar wrote:On April 17 2021 03:55 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On April 17 2021 03:34 onlystar wrote:
and besides you can judge the S rank statistics by itself dont need to include the rest of the ladder perse
it gives you what it is S rank race distribution in S. Well if 42-43% of the whole ladder is playing P then P is actually underrepresented at the top rank. 2% doesn't seem that significant of an amount in any case so the results are in line with what you would expect. keep in mind we are speaking about the top 1% here so just having a bigger player base of protoss users doesnt make a big factor here its remarkable that of those 1% there is an abundance of protoss players What does this even mean If half the population plays a race and we assume perfect balance across all races, then we would expect half the population will be that race at the top level. okay except no game is perfectly balanced Yep and that's why there's 43% Protoss players overall but only 41% Protoss in S rank. If it were perfect you'd see exactly 43% Protoss in S rank. Protoss has ~10% more players than the other races in S because overall they have ~10% more players than the other races, not because of maps or whatever. It's like there are 1 billion Chinese men compared to 150 million US men. It's because the Chinese population is freaking 2 billions, not because Chinese parents favor boys over girls more than US parents. What's hard to understand? One of the worst possible analogies because Chinese parents DO favor boys over girls LOL, is this a Chinese shill account?? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_women_of_China Read my sentence again and find in which part I say they do not, alright Mr Big Brain? He's right. Reread your own post lol.
If I say "I play BSL because I like BW, not because the top prize is 2000$", does that mean the prize is not 2000$?
Can't believe I'm having this conversation. Hope this is just a language misunderstanding.
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Well these are well known facts at this point. Protoss is the easiest race until the very highest end of the skill range, at which point it becomes almost impossible for Protoss to dominate (number of Protoss championships / Bonjwas vs. Terran-Zerg). (Low) S Protoss is still easier than S Terran or Zerg, hence the distribution we see, but of course increasingly harder than A Protoss (hence the decrease in overall share), and high S Protoss is almost impossibly difficult.
It's also the least APM intensive, which is also a nice added bonus (how many injured T/Z players, and how many injured P players?). Overall, all races are insanely hard to play and the difference is small, but still definitely significant in such a razor-cut game.
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On April 17 2021 19:53 TMNT wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2021 12:42 fgt4w wrote:On April 17 2021 11:21 TMNT wrote:On April 17 2021 09:12 Jealous wrote:On April 17 2021 07:30 TMNT wrote:On April 17 2021 04:27 onlystar wrote:On April 17 2021 04:25 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On April 17 2021 03:56 onlystar wrote:On April 17 2021 03:55 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On April 17 2021 03:34 onlystar wrote:
and besides you can judge the S rank statistics by itself dont need to include the rest of the ladder perse
it gives you what it is S rank race distribution in S. Well if 42-43% of the whole ladder is playing P then P is actually underrepresented at the top rank. 2% doesn't seem that significant of an amount in any case so the results are in line with what you would expect. keep in mind we are speaking about the top 1% here so just having a bigger player base of protoss users doesnt make a big factor here its remarkable that of those 1% there is an abundance of protoss players What does this even mean If half the population plays a race and we assume perfect balance across all races, then we would expect half the population will be that race at the top level. okay except no game is perfectly balanced Yep and that's why there's 43% Protoss players overall but only 41% Protoss in S rank. If it were perfect you'd see exactly 43% Protoss in S rank. Protoss has ~10% more players than the other races in S because overall they have ~10% more players than the other races, not because of maps or whatever. It's like there are 1 billion Chinese men compared to 150 million US men. It's because the Chinese population is freaking 2 billions, not because Chinese parents favor boys over girls more than US parents. What's hard to understand? One of the worst possible analogies because Chinese parents DO favor boys over girls LOL, is this a Chinese shill account?? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_women_of_China Read my sentence again and find in which part I say they do not, alright Mr Big Brain? He's right. Reread your own post lol. If I say "I play BSL because I like BW, not because the top prize is 2000$", does that mean the prize is not 2000$? Can't believe I'm having this conversation. Hope this is just a language misunderstanding.
Yet another horrible analogy because the $2000 is not tied into you liking BW whatsoever, whereas the reason why there are so many men in China IS to some extent due to the preference of male babies over female ones. So, while the logic structure you are referring to is correct, it's also false in the first case - which makes the analogy horrible on its own - and reeks of revisionism because the implication is that the number of men is not in any way associated with the well-known phenomena of male preference. Just a total train wreck. Stick to writing your words plainly, you can't handle much else.
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If you watch Arto's stream, you will know why Protoss has 40% at S rank.
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On April 17 2021 20:39 fazek42 wrote:
Well these are well known facts at this point. Protoss is the easiest race until the very highest end of the skill range, at which point it becomes almost impossible for Protoss to dominate (number of Protoss championships / Bonjwas vs. Terran-Zerg). (Low) S Protoss is still easier than S Terran or Zerg, hence the distribution we see, but of course increasingly harder than A Protoss (hence the decrease in overall share), and high S Protoss is almost impossibly difficult.
It's also the least APM intensive, which is also a nice added bonus (how many injured T/Z players, and how many injured P players?). Overall, all races are insanely hard to play and the difference is small, but still definitely significant in such a razor-cut game.
Please show me the “facts“ about protoss being easy on lower levels, i never saw any empirical evidence for it.
On the contrary, the facts for p unterrepresentation at higher ranks are well explored and can be documented. Im inclined to call your first sentiment racial bias :p
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On April 17 2021 21:56 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2021 19:53 TMNT wrote:On April 17 2021 12:42 fgt4w wrote:On April 17 2021 11:21 TMNT wrote:On April 17 2021 09:12 Jealous wrote:On April 17 2021 07:30 TMNT wrote:On April 17 2021 04:27 onlystar wrote:On April 17 2021 04:25 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On April 17 2021 03:56 onlystar wrote:On April 17 2021 03:55 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
[quote]
Well if 42-43% of the whole ladder is playing P then P is actually underrepresented at the top rank. 2% doesn't seem that significant of an amount in any case so the results are in line with what you would expect. keep in mind we are speaking about the top 1% here so just having a bigger player base of protoss users doesnt make a big factor here its remarkable that of those 1% there is an abundance of protoss players What does this even mean If half the population plays a race and we assume perfect balance across all races, then we would expect half the population will be that race at the top level. okay except no game is perfectly balanced Yep and that's why there's 43% Protoss players overall but only 41% Protoss in S rank. If it were perfect you'd see exactly 43% Protoss in S rank. Protoss has ~10% more players than the other races in S because overall they have ~10% more players than the other races, not because of maps or whatever. It's like there are 1 billion Chinese men compared to 150 million US men. It's because the Chinese population is freaking 2 billions, not because Chinese parents favor boys over girls more than US parents. What's hard to understand? One of the worst possible analogies because Chinese parents DO favor boys over girls LOL, is this a Chinese shill account?? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_women_of_China Read my sentence again and find in which part I say they do not, alright Mr Big Brain? He's right. Reread your own post lol. If I say "I play BSL because I like BW, not because the top prize is 2000$", does that mean the prize is not 2000$? Can't believe I'm having this conversation. Hope this is just a language misunderstanding. Yet another horrible analogy because the $2000 is not tied into you liking BW whatsoever, whereas the reason why there are so many men in China IS to some extent due to the preference of male babies over female ones. So, while the logic structure you are referring to is correct, it's also false in the first case - which makes the analogy horrible on its own - and reeks of revisionism because the implication is that the number of men is not in any way associated with the well-known phenomena of male preference. Just a total train wreck. Stick to writing your words plainly, you can't handle much else.
Wtf are you on about? The analogy was never about why there are more men than women in China, it's about there are 1 billion Chinese men compared to 150 mil US men because their population is much higher (and that's just some arbitrary numbers for example, pls dont interpret it as facts). The male preference - which I never denied - has an influence on China demographic itself, but it has nothing to do with Chinese having 850 mil more men than the US. Any implications are inside your convoluted mind.
Even the part where you initially disagree with, is because you can't read a sentence properly.
This board is full of sensitive people isn't it. First the topic about USSR (which I can partly understand), and now this shit. Just an arbitrary example and there are people jumping on you calling this is a shill account (what does that even mean anyway?)
Anyway I'm in no way interested in this conversation anymore so let's call it a day here and get back to the main topic.
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On April 17 2021 04:36 TT1 wrote:
balance is only relevant at the highest level because they're the ones who actually play the game properly, everyone else is just looking to blame something other than themselves
you'd feel better about yourself if you played a moba ^^
While I never used the balance issues to excuse for my failure in being a decent player (best rank D+ on iccup) I still felt the balance was tilted. Back then I had 50% in PvT and about 10% win rate in PvZ while studying and practicing PvZ a lot more than PvT. And the overall level of Ts and Z's I encountered was about the same. PvZ is just harder at all levels I would guess.
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On April 18 2021 01:13 kaspa84 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2021 04:36 TT1 wrote:
balance is only relevant at the highest level because they're the ones who actually play the game properly, everyone else is just looking to blame something other than themselves
you'd feel better about yourself if you played a moba ^^ While I never used the balance issues to excuse for my failure in being a decent player (best rank D+ on iccup) I still felt the balance was tilted. Back then I had 50% in PvT and about 10% win rate in PvZ while studying and practicing PvZ a lot more than PvT. And the overall level of Ts and Z's I encountered was about the same. PvZ is just harder at all levels I would guess.
Interesting. zvp is the matchup I studied the most. Practised the most. I even stoped at some point playing vs other races. my zvp is still trash.
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EPT
