|
Team Think Quick & Alpha X Present![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/RXo50JV.jpg) VOD of Ample vs Yabsab (bo3) and Best vs Light (bo7) available here======> Watch LIVE here <======Event DetailsThis exclusive LIVE event will feature a 1v1 showmatch between the two top Korean pro-gamers   Light and  Best! ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/jLeqF7A.png) Seven whole games will be played on seven different maps, with a $500 minimum prize pool, and 30% of it going to the overall winner and 10% for each game won. Matcherino Donations WelcomeAll contributions go to prize pool, code : aX313 adds $0.50 for free A teaser event featuring Ample and  Yabsab will start at 12:00 am EST before the main event at 1:00 am EST. Casted by Kwark, SaiyanSC & SteveJung. Date of event in your timezone: Thursday, Mar 18 4:00am GMT (GMT+00:00)Sponsored by Trovo.LiveThis Trovo sponsored event is very important. Please watch it live on our new Trovo account during the scheduled time. If we achieve a decent viewership, Trovo which is owned by Tencent has agreed to sponsor many more Brood War events (both showmatches and season long events) featuring top foreigners and pro-gamming Koreans on their platform. We already have another Trovo sponsored event scheduled for Tuesday March 16 starting at 8:30 pm ESTTo avoid confusion concerning the day/time of the Light vs Best event, please note the teaser match will start at midnight on Wednesday the 17th according to US Eastern Time (which will make it Thursday then). For Pacific time, the tease match will kick off at 9:00 pm PST on Wednesday March 17. Decent viewer numbers will justify continued sponsorship which will directly support and benefit foreign and Korean Brood War players while providing some of the highest quality entertainment to StarCraft lovers. This sponsorship opportunity should not go to waste, especially since it does not require the organizers or fans to contribute financially. We are a non-profit, for the community by the community initiative, supporting players, casters, mappers and graphic designers so please consider helping us out by watching this event on Trovo! Please create a Trovo account and follow TeamThinkQuickTTV. ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/823eEOw.jpg) The StarCraft II Team Alpha X is sponsored by Trovo and is working with us to do the same for Team Think Quick. We have dubbed our collaboration with Alpha X in hosting experimental events on Trovo 'Think Alpha'. Team Think Quick will continue to stream its other events on its regular Twitch channel.
======> Watch LIVE here <======Liquipedia Page (Created by FakeFin)
VOD of Ample vs Yabsab (bo3) and Best vs Light (bo7) available here
|
This is great, will watch, thank you!
|
OMG really! Your rock Ox. 
|
Sounds excellent! Will tune in for sure.
A+ for the effort, Ox. You're a legend.
|
|
|
|
|
***Players requested slight postponement so event has been pushed to March 18***. OP has been updated
|
Light em up ! Light em up!
|
Wow this is awesome! Should be an amazing series. Big props to TQ!
Everyone needs to submit the coupon code!!!
|
thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
Hopefully watching the VODs after the fact will contribute to sponsor recognition given the broadcast hours.
|
that is dope
|
Niiiiiiiiice. Ox hardest working man in BW industry. Taking straight off son
|
Hey guys thanks. I know there's a lot happening in BW lately, and not enough time to keep up with everything, but it would really mean a lot if people could tune into these Trovo events as much as possible. BW community finally has an opportunity to have a real sponsor - Trovo which is interested in helping us. Look at the SC2 team Alpha X which is sponsored by Trovo (and Afreeca TV). They host several events a week (check out TL calendar for proof or their Liquipedia pages). We are just trying to pave the way for more BW content entry into Trovo. Hopefully we'll sustain their interest so that we can continue hosting more events on Trovo AND hopefully popular BW streamers gradually enter Trovo themselves and benefit from their Trovo 500 streamer program which pays money. This is the best way to keep BW alive and growing.
I've tried my best to spell all of this out in my Trovo related threads, and I've informed several popular streamers (players and casters) about their sponsorship opportunities, so fingers crossed this all works out for the benefit of BW community in the end.
As for any thanks due, it should go to our casters, graphic designers and fans/viewers who have been putting in a lot of hours just to support our community driven goals. Big shout out to them!
But yes this week tQ got a lot of great games on offer!
March 16 at 8:30 PM EST: Terror vs Khala (five whole games) then Dandy vs Dewalt (nine whole games!)
Thursday, Mar 18 12:00am EST: Ample vs Yabsab (bo3) and then Light vs Best (seven whole games)
Friday and Saturday's Best of the Best Tour features
Fri March 19 2021 13:00 EST / 19:00 CET
Dewalt v Sziky (live) (5 whole games)
Bonyth v Trutacz (5 whole games)
Sat March 20 2021 17:00 EST / 23:00 CET
Cross v Sziky (5 whole games)
Oya v Stryker (5 whole games)
Dewalt v Terror (5 whole games)
That's 49 games we'll be broadcasting this week
|
You guys are amazing. I try to leave streams up and idle even when I can't personally tune in ♡
|
On March 15 2021 18:45 MineraIs wrote:
Predict Best 6-1 Light
are you joking? Light is in another whole new level above best.
|
On March 16 2021 13:39 End1esss wrote: are you joking? Light is in another whole new level above best.
Not from what I have seen lately. Rush/JyJ on the same level as light as far as I can tell, rush probably #1 Terran at the moment.
Light was top tier when KSL was a thing.
BeSt #1 protoss right now.
|
thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
agree, both Light and Sharp look to be somewhat below peak form atm, while Rush is currently on fire, looking at recent KCM games.
Things can change when ASL itself starts up and they start preparing in earnest though.
|
Light and best have been playing against each other for years so it is hard to judge based off of other results. They are both legends, but i think best is god tier right now.
|
Looks cool, will try to tune in!
|
Time zone difference is really a bitch isn't it? So basically this event will start when NA just goes to sleep and Europe hasn't woken up yet. Who will represent the main audience then?
I'll try to turn in at 5am though.
|
Yeah I agree, the time of this event is quite unfortunate, it will make it difficult for people to tune in.
|
On March 16 2021 15:03 thedeadhaji wrote:
agree, both Light and Sharp look to be somewhat below peak form atm, while Rush is currently on fire, looking at recent KCM games.
Things can change when ASL itself starts up and they start preparing in earnest though.
Sharp
|
Unfortunately Light, Best and a few others were only available around this time, as they have commitments before ASL kicks off. Otherwise they would not be able to play for a little while. We will try to negotiate a better time for NA and Europe next time, although for Pacific viewers, the event starting at 9:00 PM is not terrible. This is our first pro-gamer live event so let's see how it goes. Thanks everyone~
This event will be casted by Kwark, SaiyanSC and SteveJung.
|
|
|
Time is 12:00 pm eastern right now. The event should start in 12 hours from now. I corrected a small error in the post regarding time of event for Pacific viewers (9:00 pm PST)
|
Event starting soon. Please tune in if you're awake, available and interested.
https://trovo.live/TeamThinkQuickTTV
12 am est (9 pm pst) = ample vs yabsab
1 am (10 pm pst) = light vs best
|
worked out quite well that I had a terrible nights sleep - so I'm awake in time for this, nice
|
|
|
+ Show Spoiler +BeSt: Light turned off his stream? Light would have been annoyed to play because of the lag. There was an inevitable lag because it was far from the observer's country
Please get a Korean to observe the games next time. Nontheless it was a great event for the viewers.
|
Thanks to anyone who tuned in. Greatly appreciate Kwark, SaiyanSC and SteveJung for casting some entertaining games for everyone. All shortcomings were my own, including the lag issue, which I should probably address for the sake of clarity.
Unfortunately there is no way around that. I am not comfortable with sharing my stream link, and generally not interested in organizing such events unless I am the person observing. There will always be purists who are uncomfortable with the idea of pros playing under higher latency than they are used to. I encourage these individuals to try to set up such events as they please.
There is lag in our live foreign organized events and most people seem to be fine with that. I think the same applies to such pro-gamer events. Additionally, it was made known to all pro-gamers whom we contacted that the observer would be from North America and they were fine that with. So it is really up to the players to decide whether they wish to participate under such conditions or not. I am glad they accepted because it turned out to be really fun for us.
Thanks again~
|
On March 18 2021 16:27 TeamThinkQuick wrote:
Thanks to anyone who tuned in. Greatly appreciate Kwark, SaiyanSC and SteveJung for casting some entertaining games for everyone. All shortcomings were my own, including the lag issue, which I should probably address for the sake of clarity.
Unfortunately there is no way around that. I am not comfortable with sharing my stream link, and generally not interested in organizing such events unless I am the person observing. There will always be purists who are uncomfortable with the idea of pros playing under higher latency than they are used to. I encourage these individuals to try to set up such events as they please.
There is lag in our live foreign organized events and most people seem to be fine with that.
I think you're wrong on both accounts and a lot of people complained about the lag including the players that were rolling their eyes whilst playing, everything resulting in Light cheesing every other game to get it over with as soon as possible.
At the end of the day you're putting in the most effort and should have the last say on everything but you're short-changing yourself as an organizer if you're not aware of how detrimental these playing conditions are for the players, especially those of the highest caliber that rely on micro to hit their sharp builds.
That being said, the overall effort to put up these events is admirable.
|
wow.. SO much cheese, man..
That's such a damn shame. To be honest I would rather watch some great foreigners play than this, if this is how it will look like. Foreigners definitely need the money and the spotlight more than koreans do..
anyways, thanks for organizing the event and keep up the amazing work, Ox.
|
Nice idea but those Kwark and SteveJung cast was hard to listen,its was so bad quality of sound. If it cant be right,better Saiyan to cast alone!
Good games!
|
it was nice but cast was cringy most of the time which I find oddly entertaining, there was an awkward dynamic between casters. I'd try to fix audio quality issues next time, good job
|
Anyone know where i can catch a replay?
|
Sharing accounts on Trovo is forbidden because of their streamer program, so that's another thing. But as I mentioned, if Trovo is willing to sponsor such events and I get to observe with the players agreeing, I am fine with it. If there viewers who have serious issues with the latency, there is not much that I can do about that. Otherwise there are plenty of Korean organized pro-gamer events for foreigners to follow.
It was nice to receive over 50 messages thanking me for the event from people who enjoyed it regardless of the shortcomings, so while I appreciate the critical feedback, I treat it with a grain of salt as they say ;-) I just wanted to do a foreign organized progamer event, hang out with my caster friends and have fun with people. And of course, the vision was to raise awareness around Trovo and its sponsorship opportunities for Brood War organizers, casters and players, thus paving the way for BW related entry into that platform. Mission accomplished on those accounts.
Yes the sounds were sub optimal and my apologies for that. Steve had it set up the best he could and Kwark was baby sitting his wonderful child while trying his best to keep his commitment to cast. It was a nice experience for us and hopefully not too bad for others
I will upload a VOD link by the end of today in case any souls out there are interested in watching it.
|
good job guys. one thing I should mention about website is, when you watch past stream and you press right arrow, you cant go fast forward. (like skip 5 seconds forward)
you can only do it by mouse clicking or maybe theres another way that I haven't figured out
|
I really wanted to watch this event, I was even going to make an account on Trovo. Unfortunately while I was watching them get the games set up I was hit with such a ridiculous amount of disorganization, disrespect for the players, and EGO that I could not keep the stream open after the first game.
First they didn't even have a map pool figured out, and deferred to the players to just figure it out. The lack of communication, and prep felt disrespected to Best and Light imo.
Then the conversation of who would observe and host was discussed. The obvious choice was to have Steve host/observe to avoid unplayable lag, and broadcast to discord or some other means to be rebroadcast to trovo. When this was suggested somebody said "Over my dead body" choosing to instead observe from outside of Korea. The games were incredibly laggy, and you could tell from the FPV how frustrating this was for the players. I find this to be incredibly rude and disrespectful that this observers EGO got in the way of a solid showmatch. Not only were the games laggy, but the games were bad as Light and Best cheesed each game. Presumably to put themselves out of their misery of playing in such a shit environment.
|
Jeez, y'all sure are critical. I thought the event was great! Like others have said, lag is something that everyone outside of Korea plays with all the time in LIVE events, so you have to understand that's what you get when you participate in LIVE foreigner events.
Teamthinkquick already addressed the other points around having korean observers.
Btw, I don't know if there are any other Brood War events that tick all of these boxes:
1. Feature S-list progamers
2. Organized by foreigner scene
3. LIVE matches
4. Significant prize pool (keep in mind this was $500 for what was essentially a 3-hour event)
|
It's okay, let them get it out of their system. Incessant whining and complaining can be therapeutic for some people. Fortunately, in this case the disappointed and confounded found something more entertaining and constructive to do with their time.
There are a lot of hills to climb in life, and you may not want to die on every single one of them. Save your emotions for more important things, you'll need them ;-)
|
On March 18 2021 18:26 M3t4PhYzX wrote:
"To be honest I would rather watch some great foreigners play than this, if this is how it will look like. Foreigners definitely need the money and the spotlight more than koreans do..
anyways, thanks for organizing the event and keep up the amazing work, Ox.
^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ this
|
Did I miss an announcement about a long string of pro-gamer events organized by us? ^^ Just kidding, of course.
This event and the one before it was sponsored by Trovo to raise awareness around their platform among different regions of the world interested in BW related content. They wanted a foreign one and a pro-gamer one. Hence Dandy vs Dewalt and Best vs Light.
My own personal goal was to use these events as an opportunity to expose the potential of this Trovo 'plug' with as many qualified and interested people as possible in order to help pave the way for more BW related content on Trovo. I think there are foreign organizers, casters and players who could potentially make it into their paid streamer program. Trovo is already speaking to several of them as a result of our events. Just to be clear, I am not interested in their streamer program nor looking to solidify some sort of foothold with them. Just happy to have them sponsor events for us as long as the opportunities exist and my schedule allows for it. But I don't make all the calls when it comes to the details of the events. So please be aware of that.
As far as supporting the foreign scene goes, I have personally organized 400 showmatches now involving foreigners (both low and high rank) and many of the VODs are uploaded on YT. We have spent nearly $15,000 financially supporting high rank foreign players (as well as semi-pro Koreans) who have won showmatches or games. This is not to mention the amount of time required to manually set up showmatches. They are not like tournament brackets which can be automatically generated using a list of names. Anyone who is a member of our discord will know that I have to personally message people in order to set regular showmatches up.
Moreover, the prize system of our Best of the Best Tour and high profile showmatches (both of which distribute money according to single game wins) are some of the most equitable prize allocation systems I am aware of. So plenty of support there in terms of both money and ways of allocating it more fairly to benefit more people. And of course, this is not to mention the countless of top tier events already in place -- BSL will be hosting three seasons this year I believe, each one with a prize pool of $5000 and the Russian Cyber Games has a prize pool of $10,000 minimum - there have also been other events like BW Jeez Weekly, HaveAtYou, etc. offering foreign players the opportunity to make some cash. Most importantly, e sport fund exists to financially support any new events, so for those out there who are interested, they should consider giving event organizing a shot and count their blessings that an organization exists that can potentially double their prize pool.
So this is all to say folks, that infrequent pro-gamer or foreign events organized by a foreign community oriented platform which does everything for free with very little human resource or monetary support (excluding our wonderful sponsor esportfund and Trovo) deserves a 'pass'.
The event last night was dedicated to the foreign Brood War community and its children: Bombastic Starleague, Brood War Clan league, Brood War UMS community, BW Jeez Weekly, Brood War Maps. Net, Coach Pupil League, Deathfate Pro League, Engineering Bay, HaveAtYou, Rogues Gallery, Rookie Star League, Russian Cyber Games, Shinhan Tank Proleague, Staredit Network, Titanes del Ring, TL.net and many others.
|
United States42252 Posts
On March 19 2021 02:28 Sva3 wrote:
I really wanted to watch this event, I was even going to make an account on Trovo. Unfortunately while I was watching them get the games set up I was hit with such a ridiculous amount of disorganization, disrespect for the players, and EGO that I could not keep the stream open after the first game.
First they didn't even have a map pool figured out, and deferred to the players to just figure it out. The lack of communication, and prep felt disrespected to Best and Light imo.
Then the conversation of who would observe and host was discussed. The obvious choice was to have Steve host/observe to avoid unplayable lag, and broadcast to discord or some other means to be rebroadcast to trovo. When this was suggested somebody said "Over my dead body" choosing to instead observe from outside of Korea. The games were incredibly laggy, and you could tell from the FPV how frustrating this was for the players. I find this to be incredibly rude and disrespectful that this observers EGO got in the way of a solid showmatch. Not only were the games laggy, but the games were bad as Light and Best cheesed each game. Presumably to put themselves out of their misery of playing in such a shit environment.
You watched a different series to me.
Game 1 wasn't a cheese game, Light's rax at nat into bunker rush was a completely standard response to a first scouted 12 nex. That's 100% normal. Zero cheese involved.
Game 2 Light scanned a carrier build and hit it with a timing push, exactly as he's meant to do. Zero cheese involved.
Game 3 was a solid macro game. Zero cheese involved.
Game 4 Light picked up an early good kill with a vulture and then capitalized upon it with a tank timing before Best's 3 gates could produce enough goons to stabilize the expansion. That's what he was meant to do and he was rewarded with a good number of probe kills. After that he locked his bases down, progressed to 2-1, and executed Best who was reliant on a Light mistake to get back into the game. Zero cheese involved.
Game 5 was another first scouted 12 nex but the new map had some interesting Blue Storm style chokes that Best exploited to defend against Light's rax at natural into bunker rush expand. Again, very standard, the rush distances were just longer than on game 1 and the map layout different. After the failed bunker rush Best was far ahead and able to end it with a reaver. Zero cheese involved.
Game 6 was lulzy, I'll grant, but it's a new map. Light's proxy rax was smart though, Best did the expansion build Light was hoping to punish. It only failed because Best went for a zealot opening, got one in, and killed a bunch of marines. After that Best showed some strong crisis management decisions and held off the cheese attempt.
Game 7 I'm 110% fine with Light going BBS because Best had done 12 nex twice already in the series. If you have that kind of read on your opponent going BBS isn't a hail mary cheese play, it's a punish. You do it to keep your opponent honest, to tell them "hey, don't think you can keep going 12 nex forever, I'm absolutely prepared to go BBS some percentage of games". And Light was right too, Best did go 12 nex. Light's issue with that Best scouted it and that only 2 scvs went with the bunker rush attempt but I agree with Light's decision to 12 nex there.
As for the lag, it's unfortunate but ultimately its a part of the game. When Koreans are playing for a foreign audience they'll experience lag. Nobody enjoys lag but they're professionals and were compensated for playing for the foreign audience.
|
Bulgaria750 Posts
Every undertaking has a few kinks here and there. This is understandable. I hope there is more motivation to iron them than what I see in this thread, for the sake of the community aspect of having a... community.
Thank you for your effort! Best of luck in your projects.
|
United States42252 Posts
On March 18 2021 20:09 LfunkGG wrote:
it was nice but cast was cringy most of the time which I find oddly entertaining, there was an awkward dynamic between casters. I'd try to fix audio quality issues next time, good job
Unfortunately I had to change from casting at my desktop with my usual headset to casting from my laptop with a bluetooth mic and a baby sleeping on my shoulder. It wasn't planned that way and the baby was sleeping when the cast started but he woke up and needed to be held. We aspire to professionalism but none of us are professionals, this is a passion project that we have to juggle with our other life commitments.
|
I haven't watched this event yet, but I'm quite anxious to do so. As for me, I am quite grateful for any BW content I receive. It's free, no one wants anything from me, I can't find grounds to complain and to display that most universal of our flaws - ungratefulness. So I'm just going to patiently wait for the vod and I'm going to watch it with pleasure.
I think it's so weird that we the BW people are spoiled to such an extent that we whine over free games between some of the best players. I also happened to see the Afreeca SL losing English cast thread. I was ashamed while reading most responses. It's Afreeca's league, they can do whatever they want with it. If they close it - fine, it was fun while it lasted. If it has no English cast - still fine, at least we'll see the games free. And for this event: lag or no lag - I don't think it hurts to show appreciation. And if you don't feel like doing so, the least you could do is keep silent.
|
Here's the VOD for anyone interested
Thanks IntoTheStorm <3
Kwark I love you man, thanks for hanging out with us last night. It was "really special" as Steve noted. Shortcomings were all mine of course.
|
It was nice to see such an event occurring and kudos to those that were there to make it happen.
However, it was disappointing that the players had to play in sub-optimal conditions (TR24 extra high) in the presence of a foreign observer when there was a simple solution that would have sufficed in this situation. A little extra planning and a small compromise on the organizer's end would have allowed the players to play in their normal conditions.
Whether or not the Koreans are professional or compensated or playing for a foreign audience is largely besides the point. The level of play was clearly affected. I am happy there were still good games in spite of the lag, but there is definitely room for improvement, and the fact that the individuals involved disagree is disappointing.
|
On March 19 2021 08:55 FragKrag wrote:
It was nice to see such an event occurring and kudos to those that were there to make it happen.
However, it was disappointing that the players had to play in sub-optimal conditions (TR24 extra high) in the presence of a foreign observer when there was a simple solution that would have sufficed in this situation. A little extra planning and a small compromise on the organizer's end would have allowed the players to play in their normal conditions.
Whether or not the Koreans are professional or compensated or playing for a foreign audience is largely besides the point. The level of play was clearly affected. I am happy there were still good games in spite of the lag, but there is definitely room for improvement, and the fact that the individuals involved disagree is disappointing.
I definitely don't mean to come off as a negative Nancy as some other posters in this thread, I want to make it clear that I do appreciate the hard work put in by the organizer in order to set up this event. I know that it is difficult, and made even more difficult with international/professional players in the mix due to the language barrier and other issues.
However, the players should always come first, because the game always has to come first. When you put the games first, the viewers benefit by extension. Organizers and administrators second. Could have even been recorded and casted from VOD or replay, for example. Plenty of big online tournaments do that in other games and still get really high viewership and positive feedback. Just a thought for next time, if there can be no compromise reached as far as stream/re-stream/local obs and all that
|
On March 19 2021 06:16 IntoTheStorm wrote:
I haven't watched this event yet, but I'm quite anxious to do so. As for me, I am quite grateful for any BW content I receive. It's free, no one wants anything from me, I can't find grounds to complain and to display that most universal of our flaws - ungratefulness. So I'm just going to patiently wait for the vod and I'm going to watch it with pleasure.
I think it's so weird that we the BW people are spoiled to such an extent that we whine over free games between some of the best players. I also happened to see the Afreeca SL losing English cast thread. I was ashamed while reading most responses. It's Afreeca's league, they can do whatever they want with it. If they close it - fine, it was fun while it lasted. If it has no English cast - still fine, at least we'll see the games free. And for this event: lag or no lag - I don't think it hurts to show appreciation. And if you don't feel like doing so, the least you could do is keep silent.
This is the wrong take.
As a viewer, you are both the consumer and the product for the organizer.
A viewer consumes the matches that the organizer puts on, and generally speaking, the better quality of the content the more likely a given viewer will join in. Just because it is free to you doesn't mean that it couldn't be better.
The viewer is also the product that is being sold. This is the part you are missing. Afreeca and other leagues don't just get to do whatever they want because they are selling your viewership as product. That is why Trovo wanted these matches in the first place, to get to you.
To glibly state that viewers shouldn't complain about free content is ignorance of your relationship to the organizer and the parties the organizer is selling to.
|
There are plenty of Korean events where you can watch pro-gamers compete under latency-free conditions. This was a foreign organized pro-gamer event featuring a foreign observer and casters. The players agreed to participate and were compensated accordingly for their wins for less than two hours of game-time. There were no complaints from them afterwards (and they even shared their personal contact information) and we were happy with how the event turned out, as was the sponsor. If it is to be repeated again, I will be observing again. You can watch it knowing that, or simply not. If you or anyone else, who has serious issues with pro-gamers playing under less than ideal latency conditions, would like to try to organize your own foreign organized pro-gamer event with a Korean observer, you are welcome to do so. I don't believe it has ever been done so it may be something worth doing, for the greater good of the game (!) Let those who make such arguments be the first to present themselves as examples.
As for me, I am only interested in spending my own precious time (as an academic) on a leisure activity if it fulfills my own self interests in some ways, and well, observing happens to be one of those things that incentivizes me as an organizer of BW content.
Lastly, Trovo does not allow account sharing, so it is not possible for another person to observe and stream under my account. They could make another account to observe and stream from, but then there is no point in my (Team Think Quick's) involvement. They can simply try to organize such an event on their own, on their own time and resources.
|
On March 19 2021 13:12 TeamThinkQuick wrote:
There are plenty of Korean events where you can watch pro-gamers compete under latency-free conditions. This was a foreign organized pro-gamer event featuring a foreign observer and casters. The players agreed to participate and were compensated accordingly for their wins for less than two hours of game-time. There were no complaints from them afterwards (and they even shared their personal contact information) and we were happy with how the event turned out, as was the sponsor. If it is to be repeated again, I will be observing again. You can watch it knowing that, or simply not. If you or anyone else, who has serious issues with pro-gamers playing under less than ideal latency conditions, would like to try to organize your own foreign organized pro-gamer event with a Korean observer, you are welcome to do so. I don't believe it has ever been done so it may be something worth doing, for the greater good of the game (!) Let those who make such arguments be the first to present themselves as examples.
As for me, I am only interested in spending my own precious time (as an academic) on a leisure activity if it fulfills my own self interests in some ways, and well, observing happens to be one of those things that incentivizes me as an organizer of BW content.
Lastly, Trovo does not allow account sharing, so it is not possible for another person to observe and stream under my account. They could make another account to observe and stream from, but then there is no point in my (Team Think Quick's) involvement. They can simply try to organize such an event on their own, on their own time and resources.
+1
Just to entertain this idea that people have been mentioning... what is this "simple solution for lag", given these non-negotiable requirements?
1. NA observer (i.e. Team Think Quick is the observer/host)
2. Live games
If there is a simple way to satisfy the above 2 requirements AND have low lag, then I'd be down to help make it happen.
|
I didn't read all the comments and i want to say something about lag issue. Find a person who lives in west coast(like California) or hire a person to do the observer for the streamer. I figured AfreecaTV sends out cleanfeed(only screen+sound) to ENG, ESP casters when they are doing ASL S10 commentary(so they don't get mixed up with Korean commentary)
.
I also watched Yabsab vs Ample, it is absolutely terrible to play on TR14 for sure.
I get that your account cannot be shared with anyone. I'm just leaving a solution comment for your future plans.
|
Guys I understand a little bit that lag sucks. I don't play the game anymore so I cannot truly sympathize with players or viewers/fans who are much more informed than I am about the impact of high latency on gameplay. And yeah it's too bad that I am in eastern Canada now and no longer in California or the western part of this country. But all foreigners are used to higher than normal latency and don't complain about it as much and the players from the last event welcomed another showmatch in the future if it does happen again so there's not much else that I can say. But I do think such foreign organized showmatches with Korean observers can easily be arranged by others if they wish to make it happen.
Thanks everyone for their interest and of course, I appreciate the fact that underlying many of these criticisms lies a positive principle -- genuine passion for the game and respect for the top players.
|
On March 20 2021 02:12 ox.tQ wrote:
Guys I understand a little bit that lag sucks. I don't play the game anymore so I cannot truly sympathize with players or viewers/fans who are much more informed than I am about the impact of high latency on gameplay. And yeah it's too bad that I am in eastern Canada now and no longer in California or the western part of this country. But all foreigners are used to higher than normal latency and don't complain about it as much and the players from the last event welcomed another showmatch in the future if it does happen again so there's not much else that I can say. But I do think such foreign organized showmatches with Korean observers can easily be arranged by others if they wish to make it happen.
Thanks everyone for their interest and of course, I appreciate the fact that underlying many of these criticisms lies a positive principle -- genuine passion for the game and respect for the top players.
Imagine organizing a basketball event with professional nba players but telling them they have to play on a 9 foot rim instead of 10. "Lot's of people play on it and don't complain so deal with it" is basically what you are saying.
I think we all want good games, a good event, and to respect the players. I personally felt like this was 100% about ego to be the observer in a game with pro players. That's just from listening to the words from the observer during the cast. It felt very disrespectful that EGO was more important than the players/games.
|
You made an account on TL just to rage about this? You cannot account share on Trovo. It was not possible for someone else to use my account which was advertised to observe and stream the games from.
I have already mentioned the organizer (me) is not interested in content production unless he is observing and streaming the live (and/or preplayed) games. Deal with it or complain about it ad nauseam to your therapist. I am sure she/he will be impressed by your moral superiority.
Here's some really good advice: lots of hills in life, try not to don't die on each one, save your emotions for more important things, you will need them!
|
|
|
On March 20 2021 06:12 ox.tQ wrote:
You made an account on TL just to rage about this? You cannot account share on Trovo. It was not possible for someone else to use my account which was advertised to observe and stream the games from.
I have already mentioned the organizer (me) is not interested in content production unless he is observing and streaming the live (and/or preplayed) games. Deal with it or complain about it ad nauseam to your therapist. I am sure she/he will be impressed by your moral superiority.
Here's some really good advice: lots of hills in life, try not to don't die on each one, save your emotions for more important things, you will need them!
Actually my original account on TL was made in 2010 "Sva" but I lost access to it. Feel free to look it up.
Here's some good advice, when dealing with professionals you should check your ego at the door. Maybe saying something like "Over my dead body" when it comes to observing on stream isn't a smart look.
|
So you made an account in 2010 and your most recent posts in however many years have been about a disappointing StarCraft stream event. Impressive.
Generally speaking, I think it’s good to be aware that the content/efforts of others do not have to conform to one’s own personal preferences/opinions. The outside world does not have to bend to one’s expectations, nor does it exist for my own self indulgence. It must be mentally exhausting to incessantly cast judgement on everything and feel the urge to offer one's (unsolicited) advice.
FragKrag, I am sorry to disappoint you as well. I am sure I can take a page or two out of your accomplished book.
|
On March 20 2021 07:27 ox.tQ wrote:
So you made an account in 2010 and your most recent posts in however many years have been about a disappointing StarCraft stream event. Impressive.
Generally speaking, I think it’s good to be aware that the content/efforts of others do not have to conform to one’s own personal preferences/opinions. The outside world does not have to bend to one’s expectations, nor does it exist for my own self indulgence. It must be mentally exhausting to incessantly cast judgement on everything and feel the urge to offer one's (unsolicited) advice.
FragKrag, I am sorry to disappoint you as well. I am sure I can take a page or two out of your accomplished book.
Here is this better, now I have more posts than you do? Does this make me valid now? lmao so ridiculous.
I'm glad you are making events, and that's awesome. I just wish you put the players before yourself, that's all. Maybe try and understand some cultural aspects of Korea as well. I don't know that the players would ever complain to the person hosting the event, because that is just not culturally normal in Korea.
Anyways, best of luck on future events. I hope you can work out how to put the players ahead of your own ego. <3
|
On March 19 2021 17:02 LaStScan wrote:
I didn't read all the comments and i want to say something about lag issue. Find a person who lives in west coast(like California) or hire a person to do the observer for the streamer. I figured AfreecaTV sends out cleanfeed(only screen+sound) to ENG, ESP casters when they are doing ASL S10 commentary(so they don't get mixed up with Korean commentary)
.
I also watched Yabsab vs Ample, it is absolutely terrible to play on TR14 for sure.
I get that your account cannot be shared with anyone. I'm just leaving a solution comment for your future plans.
I agree with this. For what it's worth the Yabsab vs Ample game was the most non-series I've watched in a while; they were barely playing starcraft. You could tell that both light and best were extremely annoyed by the lag and it affected their play, but obviously they aren't going to complain when you're paying them hefty amounts lol.
Nothing wrong with sponsoring pro Koreans, but if you want a continued positive relationship with them the solutions are quite obvious and simple imo.
|
The opportunity for foreigners to organize pro-game showmatches with a Korean observer and foreign casters has existed for two decades now. Let's make it happen. But the onus is not on me.
Sva - I have dedicated enough of my precious time and money on the wonderful BW community (including not only 400+ showmatches featuring players but also things that have supported mappers, casters and graphic designers). Time for you and other backseat organizers to step up.
|
Why should foreigners organize showmatches with progamers? Progamers are already showcased in literally the biggest bw tournaments that exist, as well as daily sponsored showmatches from their Korean viewers, all of which have no issues whatsoever with latency, observers, scheduling, etc.
I appreciate the work you're putting in, but I'd much rather see it directed towards boosting the foreign scene personally.
|
Couldn't agree more.
Trovo insisted on a pro-gamer showmatch. I let them know about the latency issue and my streaming/observing aspirations (in case they wished to extend the opportunity to someone more "qualified") but they wanted us to do it so long as the pro-gamers approved, which they did and so we had our fun event, despite all the shortcomings. No point crying over milk that has not even spilled.
This event was also aimed at paving the way for more Brood War related content on Trovo and to persuade various players, casters and organizers to consider moving their wonderful events onto Trovo in order to potentially benefit from their streaming program.
|
On March 20 2021 08:10 littlechava wrote:
Why should foreigners organize showmatches with progamers? Progamers are already showcased in literally the biggest bw tournaments that exist, as well as daily sponsored showmatches from their Korean viewers, all of which have no issues whatsoever with latency, observers, scheduling, etc.
I appreciate the work you're putting in, but I'd much rather see it directed towards boosting the foreign scene personally.
Because the levels that Korean pros play at is much higher than any foreigner is able to perform at. It's a fairly basic concept.
It's normal that there would be an attraction to organize a showmatch between those guys for a foreigner audience.
It happens in sports all the time and it will continue to happen for sure.
|
On March 20 2021 08:23 ox.tQ wrote:Couldn't agree more. Trovo insisted on a pro-gamer showmatch. I let them know about the latency issue and my streaming/observing aspirations (in case they wished to extend the opportunity to someone more "qualified") but they wanted us to do it so long as the pro-gamers approved, which they did and so we had our fun event, despite all the shortcomings. No point crying over milk that has not even spilled. This event was also aimed at paving the way for more Brood War related content on Trovo and to persuade various players, casters and organizers to consider moving their wonderful events onto Trovo in order to potentially benefit from their streaming program.
That's fair.
On March 20 2021 08:27 oxKnu wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2021 08:10 littlechava wrote:
Why should foreigners organize showmatches with progamers? Progamers are already showcased in literally the biggest bw tournaments that exist, as well as daily sponsored showmatches from their Korean viewers, all of which have no issues whatsoever with latency, observers, scheduling, etc.
I appreciate the work you're putting in, but I'd much rather see it directed towards boosting the foreign scene personally. Because the levels that Korean pros play at is much higher than any foreigner is able to perform at. It's a fairly basic concept. It's normal that there would be an attraction to organize a showmatch between those guys for a foreigner audience. It happens in sports all the time and it will continue to happen for sure.
I'm honestly confused by this take. I've never found it a challenge to access and watch the constant stream of the absolute highest level of competition from Korean pros and semipros. The only thing that makes it less accessible is the timezone, which made this event just as inaccessible as anything else (for me).
|
On March 20 2021 08:43 littlechava wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2021 08:23 ox.tQ wrote:Couldn't agree more. Trovo insisted on a pro-gamer showmatch. I let them know about the latency issue and my streaming/observing aspirations (in case they wished to extend the opportunity to someone more "qualified") but they wanted us to do it so long as the pro-gamers approved, which they did and so we had our fun event, despite all the shortcomings. No point crying over milk that has not even spilled. This event was also aimed at paving the way for more Brood War related content on Trovo and to persuade various players, casters and organizers to consider moving their wonderful events onto Trovo in order to potentially benefit from their streaming program. That's fair. Show nested quote +On March 20 2021 08:27 oxKnu wrote:On March 20 2021 08:10 littlechava wrote:
Why should foreigners organize showmatches with progamers? Progamers are already showcased in literally the biggest bw tournaments that exist, as well as daily sponsored showmatches from their Korean viewers, all of which have no issues whatsoever with latency, observers, scheduling, etc.
I appreciate the work you're putting in, but I'd much rather see it directed towards boosting the foreign scene personally. Because the levels that Korean pros play at is much higher than any foreigner is able to perform at. It's a fairly basic concept. It's normal that there would be an attraction to organize a showmatch between those guys for a foreigner audience. It happens in sports all the time and it will continue to happen for sure. I'm honestly confused by this take. I've never found it a challenge to access and watch the constant stream of the absolute highest level of competition from Korean pros and semipros. The only thing that makes it less accessible is the timezone, which made this event just as inaccessible as anything else (for me).
You interpreted that the wrong way.
Making it a show special for foreigner audiences makes it more special...for foreigner audiences.
Admittedly, I don't care that much about it from that point of view but I definitely see why others might do.
|
Fair enough. It just aggravates me because I love what TQ is doing and I want them to keep doing it -- but I want them to do it for foreigners in particular. If Koreans are involved I'd like to see them vs Non-Koreans at the very least. I want to build up the Non-Korean scene. I didn't realize it was a deal with Trovo, though that should've been obvious.
|
|
|
The real issue (for me at least) was the time of the event. Unfortunately, several pros whom we contacted weren't available at a better time, when non-Koreans would be available (even working Koreans were not available at that time). Pros have their own busy schedules so it's understandable.
Maybe next time (if there is one) we can ask for the games to be freshly preplayed and then stream/cast those replays. And ask for those games not to be streamed by the individual streamers but that may be a non-starter for them. Not as hype as a live match, I know.
Everyone is welcome to make things happen with Trovo by the way. So feel free to reach out to them. I shared the plug. But I would definitely make sure the observer in game is experienced. That's a skill area that seems to be relatively underdeveloped in my opinion. I prefer observing that isn't similar to gamers watching their own replays, where they sporadically scroll the screen with a mouse cursor and keyboard arrow keys, clicking on everything. I think observing using the cursor in the mini-map with single frame changes creates a much more cinematic experience, especially when done methodically some how. Although mistakes are bound to happen with observing just as with casting and playing the game.
|
The games look almost thrown, but with the prize structure as it is, I imagine they just cheesed to get it over with.
> Game 2 Light scanned a carrier build and hit it with a timing push, exactly as he's meant to do. Zero cheese involved.
This game in particular is suspicious, a 2800 player would know 3 base into carrier doesn't work vs 6 factory, so maybe he just gambled on it to avoid a long game.
|
I think I got a bit more heated than I needed to.
Just wanted to go ahead and reiterate that I do really appreciate all of these events that are being hosted by Team Think Quick. They are great to tune into, but I was frustrated by the two showmatches on Trovo.
|
Dunno if anyone mention it. But if you are having a showmatch with 2 korean progamers just find another player from Korea that can obs the games and share it with you on discord.Maybe is a lot to ask but is better than having 2 progamers playing with bad latency.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
