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On December 01 2020 16:35 BLinD-RawR wrote: make hydras do more damage to mutas.
make tank splash hit air units. This thing with hydras would change zvz forever ! I like this idea !!
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On December 01 2020 15:59 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2020 12:16 vOdToasT wrote:On December 01 2020 11:39 Jealous wrote:On December 01 2020 11:17 vOdToasT wrote: One change I certainly would make is to remove the random miss chance for dragoons. I once got an SCV in to an enemy base because a dragoon just missed on flat ground. All units have a random miss chance AFAIK (1/256), with Dragoons it's just more obvious. Are you sure that it's not just units with projectiles? (so marines can't miss for example) http://www.starcraftai.com/wiki/Chance_to_HitAccording to this page, it is all ranged units.
Ok, thanks for the information. It still hurts units with slow attack speed and high damage more, however, such as dragoons.
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Add the other F buttons, including F1, as potential bookmarks on the map. It doesn't make the mechanics easier, because it's more that the player has to use. It raises the skill ceiling and allows for more exciting, closer to perfect play, but only if the player is good enough to do it.
Custom hotkeys were already added. We've already opened that door and it didn't cause any doom.
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I was thinking maybe inreasing spore colony damage vs bionic units would be an interesting idea? To kinda get more defender advantage in zvz wars and possibly increase later game ratio? Also, maybe slightly decrease the animation duration for emp? Its really hard to land it on moving objects, even for pros. These are ideas i'd like to test, but not immediately convinced are good ones.
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why are people so obsessed with removing mutas from zvz? Actually think about what that would do to the matchup: the only unit you'd see are lings and hydras. Is that any better? You remove the dogfighting and muta vs scourge tension for... pvp minus shuttle/reaver. You'd still get the same low eco games because early lings would still be a thing.
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On December 01 2020 20:58 vOdToasT wrote: Add the other F buttons, including F1, as potential bookmarks on the map. It doesn't make the mechanics easier, because it's more that the player has to use. It raises the skill ceiling and allows for more exciting, closer to perfect play, but only if the player is good enough to do it.
Custom hotkeys were already added. We've already opened that door and it didn't cause any doom.
I remember the outrage this caused for some, lol. Where are those people now? Some are just going to complain no matter what, and if developers want to make changes they need to trust their intuitions and ignore the noise. I think expanding user mechanics is a great idea too, when those mechanics encourage better play and not laziness, like the ability to select idle workers. More F keys is very reasonable, I think more control groups would be nice too. Let players use as many keys on their keyboard as possible!
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On December 01 2020 21:52 Garrl wrote: why are people so obsessed with removing mutas from zvz? Actually think about what that would do to the matchup: the only unit you'd see are lings and hydras. Is that any better? You remove the dogfighting and muta vs scourge tension for... pvp minus shuttle/reaver. You'd still get the same low eco games because early lings would still be a thing. wouldnt more hydras being played in zvz result in much more late game development also with defilers and ultras? if mutas were medium they'd probably still be playable while being more counterable by hydras, for example. It would also help P goons vs mutas as well as scouts vs mutas.. all good imo. It would ALSO help goliaths vs mutas. And corsairs actually. Would that make mutas actually too weak, lul. Some change could make the game better no doubt, i think there are some issues and zvz is bad always thought so. Tbh one of the issue also is marine medic too strong vs hydra. There is an issue with hydras, they're kinda only good vs p even though its one of few early options for z.
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Dominican Republic580 Posts
Only units I would tweak are Dark Archon, D web, Queen,
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Scout sight range upgrade also give ground attack range +1/2. Scout speed upgrade also give (ground) attack speed boost. Would give the upgrades some much needed value, better justify the cost for the tech and individual units and create a pretty unique role for it. For the Ghost, make lockdown a small AoE spell, but with shorter duration, mote like Maelstrom.
Never gonna happen, but maybe some one could make a mod like this.
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On December 01 2020 21:52 Garrl wrote: why are people so obsessed with removing mutas from zvz?
its not removing, its adding variety TO them. I do love zvz even today, but boy does everyone get exited when any zvz gets to the hive tech! This is like Christmas, really.
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On December 01 2020 22:54 fLyiNgDroNe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2020 21:52 Garrl wrote: why are people so obsessed with removing mutas from zvz? its not removing, its adding variety TO them. I do love zvz even today, but boy does everyone get exited when any zvz gets to the hive tech! This is like Christmas, really.
This would change very quickly if hive zvz was more common. In reality, hive zvz is not that interesting if you think about it. It's extremly volatile because a single plague can win a game. Both players will mostly turtle for an extended period of time until one pulls the trigger and/or finds an opening. The fact that it is so volatile makes it tense. The intensity in combination with its rarity is the reason people get excited. If hive zvz was common I'm pretty sure people would view it the same way they view pvp.
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On December 01 2020 23:58 Miragee wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2020 22:54 fLyiNgDroNe wrote:On December 01 2020 21:52 Garrl wrote: why are people so obsessed with removing mutas from zvz? its not removing, its adding variety TO them. I do love zvz even today, but boy does everyone get exited when any zvz gets to the hive tech! This is like Christmas, really. This would change very quickly if hive zvz was more common. In reality, hive zvz is not that interesting if you think about it. It's extremly volatile because a single plague can win a game. Both players will mostly turtle for an extended period of time until one pulls the trigger and/or finds an opening. The fact that it is so volatile makes it tense. The intensity in combination with its rarity is the reason people get excited. If hive zvz was common I'm pretty sure people would view it the same way they view pvp.
yeah you might be onto something here indeed. I still think that it would make it more interesting overall if defenders advantage was just slightly increased. But chosing between a bad change/ game-breaking change and no change i choose no change every time.
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TLADT24917 Posts
On December 01 2020 23:58 Miragee wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2020 22:54 fLyiNgDroNe wrote:On December 01 2020 21:52 Garrl wrote: why are people so obsessed with removing mutas from zvz? its not removing, its adding variety TO them. I do love zvz even today, but boy does everyone get exited when any zvz gets to the hive tech! This is like Christmas, really. This would change very quickly if hive zvz was more common. In reality, hive zvz is not that interesting if you think about it. It's extremly volatile because a single plague can win a game. Both players will mostly turtle for an extended period of time until one pulls the trigger and/or finds an opening. The fact that it is so volatile makes it tense. The intensity in combination with its rarity is the reason people get excited. If hive zvz was common I'm pretty sure people would view it the same way they view pvp. Indeed. If hive ZvZ was common, then it's not as special anymore.
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Well if hive zvz is volatile that would make that one matchup like SC2 then eh^^
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Northern Ireland20509 Posts
On December 01 2020 20:58 vOdToasT wrote: Add the other F buttons, including F1, as potential bookmarks on the map. It doesn't make the mechanics easier, because it's more that the player has to use. It raises the skill ceiling and allows for more exciting, closer to perfect play, but only if the player is good enough to do it.
Custom hotkeys were already added. We've already opened that door and it didn't cause any doom. That would be nice, one I could semi-mirror my SC2 setup which would be easier for me to bounce between the games.
Personal preference, my SC2 custom hotkeys are borderline standard with a few tweaks, bar the camera ones where I map them with shift, made F1 one and made the space bar another.
It’s handy in SC2, feels so much more crucial to semi-obligatory in BW to use camera locations but they’re a bit more awkward. I’d totally trade more locations and more remapping for using BW default hotkeys!
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Germany1297 Posts
One more idea for the ghost: make lockdown target a location (instead of a unit), give it a really small area of effect, basically like maelstrom for mechanical units, but with projectile travel time, like the EMP. That would make ghosts an aspect for any TvP or TvT late game and make them worth the effort to get them with all their upgrades. And I would still argue to change their attack type to normal damage and give them (right away or as an replacement for one of their upgrades) a higher attack speed or access to the stim pack upgrade, which could at least potentially make them kind of effective against Zerg.
Zerg get swarm, plague, cracklings, guardians, devourers and ultras on T3. All very powerful options but mainly: options. Protoss gets Carriers, Arbiters (Recall/Stasis), Dark Archons, DWeb: options. Terran's T3 is basically one unit: vessels, which counters Zerg T2 and "soft counters" Zerg T3. It would be nice to just have a few more options on the table, and making the ghost viable could do just that.
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I agree ghosts attack should either be normal or something, or just much higher concussive so that they at least have some actual effectiveness with that. Their attack is only 10+1, could easily make it 20+2 i think. Well with that 2 ghosts could 2 shot a high templar (thats kinda pretty fast of course). 2 ghosts cost the same as a high templar. Make it 16+1 and they need 3 shots instead. Or 18+2... so they can be good support damage vs zeals glings and marines, even hydras to an extent etc.
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Scout speed upgrade via Cybernetics Core instead of Fleet Beacon. That is all.
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It would be cool to have an option for tooltips to be more informative.
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I would love to see the Ghost used more. But I think its problem is that it doesn't work well in its current niche.
The Ghost is pretty much good for two things: 1) neutralizing mechanical units and 2) doing tons of damage in an area.
However the nuke in its current form, as Chosi put it, is really just a single-player novelty. For putting the time and effort in fully fleshing out every bit of your entire technology tree, you unlock the ultimate power - you get super cool nuclear missiles that destroy everything in a single click! If that were improved, it would probably be straight up broken. Every match against Terran would be "beat T before he gets nukes." I think it would have needed to have been radically different in order to be used more.
Maybe nukes should have behaved in a way to occupy the same niche as spider mines - getting space and map control for Terran. Mines are good, but they are easy to remove and limited. Nukes should be a small improvement on that - I think it would've been cool if nukes were quicker to strike, though still giving a reasonable enough time for the enemy to move, but did not do any direct damage. Rather, they left like a radioactive field where any non-friendly units would take damage over time, like plague, so they could not ignore the threat and sit there. This would be especially nice in TvT I think to add some dynamism to the otherwise slow and standoffish nature of tank lines.
With Lockdown, Terran already has no problem dealing with Protoss mech, between Vessels, Wraiths, Goliaths, Tanks, and Turrets. So I think any change should hardly affect TvP or TvP could be easily imbalanced for T. To me, Lockdown has a "sniper" spell feel to it, like Spawn Broodling, so I think it would've been nice to see that emphasized to really give the Ghost more of that sniper feel he exhibits. Instead of it being the rather short spell it is, the range could've been very long, like 13, and only worked on ground units. So like Broodling, it would've been great for neutralizing seiged tanks, and would likely only affect TvT and allow Terran armies to be more mobile.
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