No News regarding any official English Stream. Teams, Info and Draft
Team sponsors may change but not the team itself (meaning players/team name/logo) He also mentions that players will stay on the team even if players go to the army and return.
Ex. MPL2 Gamjeon market Sparkyz → MPL3 Jeil Company Sparkyz → MPL4 Mutube Sparkyz → MPL5 Kim Bong Jun Sparkyz
On October 14 2018 13:21 Kimoleon wrote: Team formation:
Coach: There will be an old gamer pre matched with a sponsor
Draft: Will happen at Britney’s studio
Team: Name/Logo/Uniform will be created by viewers and/or the team itself
Profile shooting after uniforms are complete all provided by the sponsor.
(seems Britney is talking about providing everything he can including uniforms created by viewers)
Team Draft information:
In MPL will include every male Star Afreeca BJ and separate 48 players into ELO rankings and separate them into 5 tiers. Females will be picked separately.
The coaches of the 8 teams will get pick priority by a randomizer I assume and will pick Tier 2--5th based on the diagram shown there
Talks about draft orders in Football or Baseball based on the rankings of the previous season but Britney is open to suggestions on the best way to draft players.
The female players tier and Tier 1 players will picked based on ELO ranking starting from 8th placed rank. To create more balanced teams the 1st place rank for both tiers will not have a choice in team.
(note: this may change based on feedback)
Team Payroll:
The coaches of the 8 teams will receive a payroll of 5,000$ USD and can pay the players however they see fit. (Britney apologizes about such a small amount, but dude you da mvp)
The sponsors have each put in 10,000$ each for equality.
Half as mentioned will go to players and the other half will go to either prize money or running the league. All monetary transactions will be transparent for the public to see. Created a MPL 2 bank account.
The other 4 slots will be filled by a single day qualifier Date - 10/30 Place - Jamsil AfreecaTV PC Room Format - Bo3’s (Map-Fighting Spirit -> Circuit Breaker -> Fighting Spirit) Requirements to attend: Any female streamer.
To register you need to respond to Britney’s afreeca post concerning this qualifier. At this moment in time there are 13 entrants.
This event will be run just like an ASL qualifier.
Lee Hyun Kyung announcer will attend as well, what a qt.
Team Draft information:
All Male BW Streamers on Afreeca will be separated into tiers via ELO ranking(probably sponbbang ranks)
Females will be picked seperately
Coaches then Draft Players from Tier 2-5 randomly, think of sports drafting(however Britney is open to suggestions on how to handle drafting moving forward)
Female players Tier and Tier 1 Players will be picked based on ELO ranking starting from 8th placed rank.
1st rank players get auto assigned to a Team based on above points to create more balance in teams.
Schedule and Format 12/1/2018 → Team Draft & Group Ceremony
Round of 8 Format and Schedule 2 Groups of 4 teams each [list] [*]Dual Tournament Rules(Same As ASL/KSL/MSL) [*][b]Match 1 and 2 will be Bo7, Winners, Losers and Final match series will be Bo5.
So it would look like this: Team A vs Team B (Bo7) Team C vs Team D (Bo7) Winner's Match (Bo5) Losers' Match (Bo5) Final Match (Bo5)
12/8/2018 → Ro8 Group A match 1 12/9/2018 → Ro8 Group A match 2
12/12/2018 → Ro8 Group B match 1 12/13/2018 → Ro8 Group B match 2
12/16/2018 → A/B Winner's match 12/17/2018 → A/B Loser's match 12/19/2018 → A/B Final match Round of 4 format and Schedule
Ro4 will be Bo2 series of Bo7(they will play 2 Best of 7 matches)
In case of 1:1 Tie they will have a single Super Ace match after the 2nd set
12/22/2018 → Ro4 1st match set 1 12/23/2018 → Ro4 1st match set 2
12/26/2018 → Ro4 2nd match set 1 12/28/2018 → Ro4 2nd match set 2
Finals
Single Bo7 series for the Finals
Finals to be played Offline at the Afreeca Freecup Studio.(the ASL/GSL Studio)
12/30/2018 → Finals Prize Pool Prize money: (currently 1$ - 1.1k won ratio)
1st Place - 15,000,000 won
2nd Place - 5,000,000 won
3rd Place - 3,000,000 won Sponsorship and Speculation
Main sponsor for MPL is Shinhan Investment Corp. which is the subsidiary of Shinhan Bank who have a longstanding histroy of sponsoring Proleague and 3 seasons of OSL back in the KeSPA era.
They will also be Sponsoring one of the teams.
Another Sponsor could potentially be an Afreeca Streamer who goes by Gamst.
Britney really delivering. This gives me a feeling of commitment/passion/whatever I haven't felt about a person in the communtiy since the sonic days (well - before THAT happend). Sustainability is very important and it seems like Britney is doing everything he can in this regard.
Also, how awesome is it that we have a foreigner in a BW Proleague (-ish)? Cadenzie fighting! Hope we get some great english cast as well.
Shame they're still opting to include female streamers. I understand the idea behind the publicity stunt, hope they garner enough attention to do away with that in the seasons to follow, though :d
On October 15 2018 16:58 Ziggy wrote: Shame they're still opting to include female streamers. I understand the idea behind the publicity stunt, hope they garner enough attention to do away with that in the seasons to follow, though :d
Yeah, I agree this should be purely a skill competition. I like the idea of involving females but maybe as kind of a side event? Like they could be a league for their own, while still playing matches at the same time and for the same teams.
On a side note, I hope Britney manages to launch a merchandise line for this, I'd defo pick up an MPL mug / shirt (or any of the team jerseys, should they come up with decent logo designs)
On October 15 2018 16:50 kogeT wrote: Britney is basicially a korean version of Qikz.
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Difference is Britney is actually popular haha.
Well this is sick news to me. Proleague was always the best part of professional Broodwar and I'm glad to see it returning in such a manner. Hopefully the old SKT guys get back together and form a team and coorce Fantasy and oov to come on board.
oov is coaching an LoL team lol he's not going to have time to play in this; his team is in the middle of a tournament right now even.
If Tastosis are too busy to do this then I hope some of the other english speakers that claim to want to become starcraft casters volunteer to cast this event. It's a lot of work but if you want to be a caster then this would be a great opportunity (assuming Tastosis decline).
Great stuff by Britney. His passion is just fantastic too. Hopefully this season becomes even bigger, and better than the first and he gets even more sponsors. I'm glad to see his hard work paying off.
This is really brilliant so happy to see a return of proleague style competition even if this won’t be quite as big or long as the original proleague it should still break some records for post ‘12/13 action which was the last season of pl. team moo all the way!
Wow I can't wait for MPL2! Pro Leagues have always been so refreshing and funny, even more now with the female tournament!
Do anybody know if there will be 2v2 matches this season?
On October 15 2018 23:33 ne4aJIb wrote: There should be at some point Full Foreigner All-Star Team
Yes please O.O
On October 15 2018 22:27 Rodya wrote: oov is coaching an LoL team lol he's not going to have time to play in this; his team is in the middle of a tournament right now even.
If Tastosis are too busy to do this then I hope some of the other english speakers that claim to want to become starcraft casters volunteer to cast this event. It's a lot of work but if you want to be a caster then this would be a great opportunity (assuming Tastosis decline).
Maybe if ppl stop the hate storm toward Rapid and NoRegret and begin to contribute to the community by giving them suggestions and polite feedback we might have more eng casters and more people overall willing to get into bw casting.
P.s. I'm pretty sure that many haters on twitch are sc2 trolls but still
rapid is great. i thought the hate on him is pretty much over. and noregret.. well, he did it like twice now and his commentary could be done by anybody with a pair of eyes. he doesn't know bw and i think he doesn't care to know and that's fine, but i certainly don't need his commentary. maybe sc2 players get something from it, i don't know.
On October 16 2018 09:26 [AS]Rattus wrote: rapid is great. i thought the hate on him is pretty much over. and noregret.. well, he did it like twice now and his commentary could be done by anybody with a pair of eyes. he doesn't know bw and i think he doesn't care to know and that's fine, but i certainly don't need his commentary. maybe sc2 players get something from it, i don't know.
Just give NoRegret some feedback, sometimes this community looks like we need nothing and anybody while in reality we need to get stronger and bigger especially in the foreign scene.
NoRegret showed some genuine love for bw in his casts, just give him a chance to learn and grow with the community.
Yeah - NoRegret just hasn’t done enough of it yet to be truly comfortable. I really enjoyed him casting with a Artosis during the qualifiers for KSL1, because the Tosis was able to answer all of the questions. NoRegret has the same questions that many viewers do, so pairing him with someone like Artosis or Wolf who knows a lot about the game would be really hype IMO.
On October 16 2018 10:57 Duceman wrote: Yeah - NoRegret just hasn’t done enough of it yet to be truly comfortable. I really enjoyed him casting with a Artosis during the qualifiers for KSL1, because the Tosis was able to answer all of the questions. NoRegret has the same questions that many viewers do, so pairing him with someone like Artosis or Wolf who knows a lot about the game would be really hype IMO.
Absolutely, sc2 players did't really had the opportunity to come to know sc1 like we did for sc2 because sc1 was pretty much abandoned so a sc2-friendly personality like NoRegret can be the best bridge between the two communities.
The big thing is that people don't realise how hard it actually is to go and be a caster out in Korea if you're not obscenely rich already or don't mind living for a while in poor conditions (like tasteless and artosis did). It's the reason why all the casters cast multiple games, the money isn't really there to sustain yourself just casting one game.
Like if I had money I'd love to go live and cast in Korea, especially something like MPL because Proleague was the big thing that got me into the game. Sadly for me it just isn't financially viable for me and honestly I don't even know if I'd be any good. The fact people like NoRegret and Rapid (Rapid I love unconditionally) go to Korea and work so damn hard is something a lot of people really don't appreciate as much as they should.
On October 16 2018 21:09 Qikz wrote: The big thing is that people don't realise how hard it actually is to go and be a caster out in Korea if you're not obscenely rich already or don't mind living for a while in poor conditions (like tasteless and artosis did). It's the reason why all the casters cast multiple games, the money isn't really there to sustain yourself just casting one game.
Like if I had money I'd love to go live and cast in Korea, especially something like MPL because Proleague was the big thing that got me into the game. Sadly for me it just isn't financially viable for me and honestly I don't even know if I'd be any good. The fact people like NoRegret and Rapid (Rapid I love unconditionally) go to Korea and work so damn hard is something a lot of people really don't appreciate as much as they should.
Holy shit, Qikz casting MPL!!! That would be beyond epic! Dude, maybe find an English teaching job in Korea? British accent is in demand, cuz of game of thrones and stuff. And do bw casting as parttime
Can we appreciate Shinhan Bank for being such an awesome company? If you're in Korea make sure to sign up for their lucky box event for a chance to win a car at http://goo.gl/nmChAa !
This message was sponsored by Shinhan Bank™.
...
No but in all seriousness, thank you Shinhan, thank you Brittney, thank you Gamst, and thank you everyone else who sponsored this teamleague. Also thank you to all the crazy number of viewers (especially China, where MPL was hugely popular) that allowed this to happen.
I would be down to try my tounge in commentating some of this mpl but it would have to be on stream or via YouTube way as moving to Seoul just for this isn’t a viable option right now.
On October 17 2018 12:34 RWLabs wrote: Can we appreciate Shinhan Bank for being such an awesome company? If you're in Korea make sure to sign up for their lucky box event for a chance to win a car at http://goo.gl/nmChAa !
This message was sponsored by Shinhan Bank™.
...
No but in all seriousness, thank you Shinhan, thank you Brittney, thank you Gamst, and thank you everyone else who sponsored this teamleague. Also thank you to all the crazy number of viewers (especially China, where MPL was hugely popular) that allowed this to happen.
Do Chinese ppl watch BW on Afreeca or in some other platform/site?
On October 17 2018 12:34 RWLabs wrote: Can we appreciate Shinhan Bank for being such an awesome company? If you're in Korea make sure to sign up for their lucky box event for a chance to win a car at http://goo.gl/nmChAa !
This message was sponsored by Shinhan Bank™.
...
No but in all seriousness, thank you Shinhan, thank you Brittney, thank you Gamst, and thank you everyone else who sponsored this teamleague. Also thank you to all the crazy number of viewers (especially China, where MPL was hugely popular) that allowed this to happen.
You must be smoking something really bad to think MPL is popular in China.
On October 17 2018 12:34 RWLabs wrote: Can we appreciate Shinhan Bank for being such an awesome company? If you're in Korea make sure to sign up for their lucky box event for a chance to win a car at http://goo.gl/nmChAa !
This message was sponsored by Shinhan Bank™.
...
No but in all seriousness, thank you Shinhan, thank you Brittney, thank you Gamst, and thank you everyone else who sponsored this teamleague. Also thank you to all the crazy number of viewers (especially China, where MPL was hugely popular) that allowed this to happen.
You must be smoking something really bad to think MPL is popular in China.
~150 000 Chinese viewers, which was about a third of the Korean counterpart for Brittney's broadcast. How much bigger should the audience be before it's considered popular?
Though weed is now legal in Canada, so I could be smoking something really bad regardless.
So there was hope I could cast this, but I'm told by Afreeca that Britney is...hard to contact. Apparently they have tried a couple times and haven't heard back. Cadenzie confirms the same in terms of getting ahold of him. Afreeca is okay with me casting, but I would need to know from Britney.
I figured I'd throw this out there if anyone has a way of getting in touch with him where he might respond,
On October 15 2018 16:50 kogeT wrote: Britney is basicially a korean version of Qikz.
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Difference is Britney is actually popular haha.
Well this is sick news to me. Proleague was always the best part of professional Broodwar and I'm glad to see it returning in such a manner. Hopefully the old SKT guys get back together and form a team and coorce Fantasy and oov to come on board.
On October 15 2018 16:50 kogeT wrote: Britney is basicially a korean version of Qikz.
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Difference is Britney is actually popular haha.
Well this is sick news to me. Proleague was always the best part of professional Broodwar and I'm glad to see it returning in such a manner. Hopefully the old SKT guys get back together and form a team and coorce Fantasy and oov to come on board.
On October 15 2018 16:58 Ziggy wrote: Shame they're still opting to include female streamers. I understand the idea behind the publicity stunt, hope they garner enough attention to do away with that in the seasons to follow, though :d
What's wrong with testing the coaching abilities of the team? It's called a team for a reason. If the girl match is another point that could win you a series, you'll actually want this player on your team to improve. If the ranking was separate for those matches, then they would actually become a meaningless, token event and there would be no team interaction involved. It's better this way.
Brittney's reasons for adding female gamers was apparently to induct more players. A casual watcher looks at ex-progamers duking it out and sees something they couldn't do in a million years. Whereas seeing non-progamer females play amazing games could get them to ask 'Could I do that?' and try it out themselves.
On October 15 2018 16:58 Ziggy wrote: Shame they're still opting to include female streamers. I understand the idea behind the publicity stunt, hope they garner enough attention to do away with that in the seasons to follow, though :d
What's wrong with testing the coaching abilities of the team? It's called a team for a reason. If the girl match is another point that could win you a series, you'll actually want this player on your team to improve. If the ranking was separate for those matches, then they would actually become a meaningless, token event and there would be no team interaction involved. It's better this way.
How is it better to have one shite game per match as opposed to having an extra set of actual pros playing?
You're implying the best of the best can't improve, ie they're flawless. The skill ceiling can always be raised and that is pretty much the whole point behind the idea of teamhouses and coaches - for players to improve through interaction. What's the point of wasting resources on female streamers who only got into StarCraft cause there was money to be made? I'd rather the competition had a rookie match, with teams coming together to inject new blood into the scene (with players who show actual promise, not C- scrubs like them streamers)
As I said, I hope MPL does well enough for Britney and Afreeca to do away with the streamer set in future seasons.
On October 15 2018 16:58 Ziggy wrote: Shame they're still opting to include female streamers. I understand the idea behind the publicity stunt, hope they garner enough attention to do away with that in the seasons to follow, though :d
What's wrong with testing the coaching abilities of the team? It's called a team for a reason. If the girl match is another point that could win you a series, you'll actually want this player on your team to improve. If the ranking was separate for those matches, then they would actually become a meaningless, token event and there would be no team interaction involved. It's better this way.
How is it better to have one shite game per match as opposed to having an extra set of actual pros playing?
You're implying the best of the best can't improve, ie they're flawless. The skill ceiling can always be raised and that is pretty much the whole point behind the idea of teamhouses and coaches - for players to improve through interaction. What's the point of wasting resources on female streamers who only got into StarCraft cause there was money to be made? I'd rather the competition had a rookie match, with teams coming together to inject new blood into the scene (with players who show actual promise, not C- scrubs like them streamers)
As I said, I hope MPL does well enough for Britney and Afreeca to do away with the streamer set in future seasons.
First, are you sure there is really money to be made for these female streamers? I don't get the impression they are making major money playing BW. Or at least making more playing BW than they would doing anything else, because if it's not BW that people are watching them generating the $$$, then it's because of them are a streaming personality and what game the play is just an externality.
Beyond that, female streamers have a huge marketing value, especially if they are somewhat well known streamers. They will draw in a variety of viewers that wouldn't otherwise be watching. Do you not think that marketing is a good tactic and good for the scene? It's good for male viewers because we know how guys react to females playing games they like...i.e. it draws them in. It's also good for female gamers to see other females on stage succeeding.
Calling these female streamers "C- scrubs" as a whole is very disingenuous. Several of the top players are at or above 2k MMR, in Korea. Not elite by anyones standards, but that's a massive distance away from being a C- scrub. It's damn near the top 1% of dedicated BW players.
Moreover, it's common to have female leagues for a variety of sports. So is it here. Makes sense to me. In this case we are integrating the top female players of LASL and other elite female leagues as part of a co-ed league. It would be like objecting to a golf tournament where it was a scramble and one player of each group was female, or a basketball showmatch where you had to have one WNBA player on the floor at all times for each time. And make no mistake, this is NOT an "elite" BW league. It's not Wimbeldon, it's not the Masters, it's not the Super Bowl, it's not OSL or KeSPA Proleague. It's a showmatch league with decent prize money.
I strongly agree with you about the rookie thing though, I would live to see that "Joker" tier move towards being strong up and coming amateurs.
On October 15 2018 16:58 Ziggy wrote: Shame they're still opting to include female streamers. I understand the idea behind the publicity stunt, hope they garner enough attention to do away with that in the seasons to follow, though :d
What's wrong with testing the coaching abilities of the team? It's called a team for a reason. If the girl match is another point that could win you a series, you'll actually want this player on your team to improve. If the ranking was separate for those matches, then they would actually become a meaningless, token event and there would be no team interaction involved. It's better this way.
How is it better to have one shite game per match as opposed to having an extra set of actual pros playing?
You're implying the best of the best can't improve, ie they're flawless. The skill ceiling can always be raised and that is pretty much the whole point behind the idea of teamhouses and coaches - for players to improve through interaction. What's the point of wasting resources on female streamers who only got into StarCraft cause there was money to be made? I'd rather the competition had a rookie match, with teams coming together to inject new blood into the scene (with players who show actual promise, not C- scrubs like them streamers)
As I said, I hope MPL does well enough for Britney and Afreeca to do away with the streamer set in future seasons.
Beyond that, female streamers have a huge marketing value, especially if they are somewhat well known streamers. They will draw in a variety of viewers that wouldn't otherwise be watching. Do you not think that marketing is a good tactic and good for the scene? It's good for male viewers because we know how guys react to females playing games they like...i.e. it draws them in. It's also good for female gamers to see other females on stage succeeding.
On October 15 2018 16:58 Ziggy wrote: Shame they're still opting to include female streamers. I understand the idea behind the publicity stunt, hope they garner enough attention to do away with that in the seasons to follow, though :d
What's wrong with testing the coaching abilities of the team? It's called a team for a reason. If the girl match is another point that could win you a series, you'll actually want this player on your team to improve. If the ranking was separate for those matches, then they would actually become a meaningless, token event and there would be no team interaction involved. It's better this way.
How is it better to have one shite game per match as opposed to having an extra set of actual pros playing?
You're implying the best of the best can't improve, ie they're flawless. The skill ceiling can always be raised and that is pretty much the whole point behind the idea of teamhouses and coaches - for players to improve through interaction. What's the point of wasting resources on female streamers who only got into StarCraft cause there was money to be made? I'd rather the competition had a rookie match, with teams coming together to inject new blood into the scene (with players who show actual promise, not C- scrubs like them streamers)
As I said, I hope MPL does well enough for Britney and Afreeca to do away with the streamer set in future seasons.
Calling these female streamers "C- scrubs" as a whole is very disingenuous. Several of the top players are at or above 2k MMR, in Korea. Not elite by anyones standards, but that's a massive distance away from being a C- scrub. It's damn near the top 1% of dedicated BW players.
Hmm, firstly, most of them don;t play ladder but actually 사랑e, the lowest rank in terms of spon games and such has an 1883mmr acc, and aegong has one sitting at 1935 with 12-2.
Theyre better than you think cause most foreigners wouldn't get over 2k in korea as much as they think they would. Frankly even I often drop down to B and then back up to almost S like a yoyo its so difficult out here because every other player you face at 2k is a pro gamer on a new acc, also since we are usually streaming our ladder games the amount of pros/semi pro's trying to match into us to do funny strategies and win is kind of absurd sometimes. It's all good fun though, just don't take the ladder ranking too seriously.
Most importantly it's bringing more new players and interest to the game like crazy right now. Something foreigners could learn a thing or two about doing for the scene. A lot of very popular afreeca streamers whom didn't play starcraft previously or recently, have been playing games with the female players and organizing events based around them because there is a lot of hype and interest in their games. I think that's a good thing for the scene but maybe i'm crazy?
But you who puts... what exactly? into the scene, would like to see all of that crumble into nothingness. good for you.
On November 24 2018 00:47 CadenZie wrote: But you who puts... what exactly? into the scene, would like to see all of that crumble into nothingness. good for you.
??? :D
Let me get this straight.
I said I understand Britney is doing this to expose StarCraft to a broader audience and this publicity stunt is reasonable, though I hope they do away with the streamer set in future seasons.
Then I said I'd rather see professionals get more chances to play, or at least that they invest in rookies, who actually have a chance of becoming professionals themselves at some point, so that there's actual fresh blood on the scene.
And you arrived at: you'd like to see all of that crumble into nothingness
nah, the more the better. and even if the female 1n1s were the worst ever played anywhere by anybody, the rest of the games wouldn't get worse because of their existence. so what could you have against them? that said, they aren't and i'm impressed at how fast they are improving.
I just don't see the fuss and why should these matches be done away with. Similarly, I can't agree with koget saying it's unfair or not based on skill, it's not like they have to play against Flash and it's not like they get points for afreeca subs. If you neglect your girl teammate and Cadenzie beats her every time, it's your problem.
On November 24 2018 00:47 CadenZie wrote: Hmm, firstly, most of them don;t play ladder but actually 사랑e, the lowest rank in terms of spon games and such has an 1883mmr acc, and aegong has one sitting at 1935 with 12-2.
Theyre better than you think cause most foreigners wouldn't get over 2k in korea as much as they think they would. Frankly even I often drop down to B and then back up to almost S like a yoyo its so difficult out here because every other player you face at 2k is a pro gamer on a new acc, also since we are usually streaming our ladder games the amount of pros/semi pro's trying to match into us to do funny strategies and win is kind of absurd sometimes. It's all good fun though, just don't take the ladder ranking too seriously.
Most importantly it's bringing more new players and interest to the game like crazy right now. Something foreigners could learn a thing or two about doing for the scene. A lot of very popular afreeca streamers whom didn't play starcraft previously or recently, have been playing games with the female players and organizing events based around them because there is a lot of hype and interest in their games. I think that's a good thing for the scene but maybe i'm crazy?
But you who puts... what exactly? into the scene, would like to see all of that crumble into nothingness. good for you.
This. 100x this. We need more events and more exposure of events for new or up and coming players and teams, not less.
On October 15 2018 16:58 Ziggy wrote: Shame they're still opting to include female streamers. I understand the idea behind the publicity stunt, hope they garner enough attention to do away with that in the seasons to follow, though :d
What's wrong with testing the coaching abilities of the team? It's called a team for a reason. If the girl match is another point that could win you a series, you'll actually want this player on your team to improve. If the ranking was separate for those matches, then they would actually become a meaningless, token event and there would be no team interaction involved. It's better this way.
How is it better to have one shite game per match as opposed to having an extra set of actual pros playing?
You're implying the best of the best can't improve, ie they're flawless. The skill ceiling can always be raised and that is pretty much the whole point behind the idea of teamhouses and coaches - for players to improve through interaction. What's the point of wasting resources on female streamers who only got into StarCraft cause there was money to be made? I'd rather the competition had a rookie match, with teams coming together to inject new blood into the scene (with players who show actual promise, not C- scrubs like them streamers)
As I said, I hope MPL does well enough for Britney and Afreeca to do away with the streamer set in future seasons.
Beyond that, female streamers have a huge marketing value, especially if they are somewhat well known streamers. They will draw in a variety of viewers that wouldn't otherwise be watching. Do you not think that marketing is a good tactic and good for the scene? It's good for male viewers because we know how guys react to females playing games they like...i.e. it draws them in. It's also good for female gamers to see other females on stage succeeding.
thanks for summing up my first post on the matter
If you posted something like what I wrote, that makes no sense because you wrote:
How is it better to have one shite game per match as opposed to having an extra set of actual pros playing?
What's the point of wasting resources on female streamers who only got into StarCraft cause there was money to be made?
The answer of course being what I wrote about marketing. You seem to know this yet still posted the above.
Outside of that, the rest of the stuff you wrote was more or less condescending nonsense (except about rookie progamers, where I agree with you strongly). I know CadenZie has been over 2k numerous times, seems I was off a little bit off, by 100-200 MMR on some of the other players, but you just dismissed my claim doing a token investigation of stats and thinking you knew better. In any event, players like Aegong and Darin are close to 2k MMR. In Korea no less. That's around top 2-3% of serious BW players (S is defined as top 1%). In no world is someone in the top couple percent a "scrub".
Scratch golfer? What a scrub! 500lb squat? Fucking scrub. 16:00 5k? Meh. Scrub.
Long ways off the pros, but those are all very solid levels, and not levels you achieve just hopping in once for some views and money.
Even a 1600 player is unlikely to be one jumping in just for the money. It takes at least a couple hundred hours for even a focused and talented person to reach that MMR, and for many guys they have been playing for years and are only around that level.
Advocating for only high level KR BW I can get behind. Advocating for only high level KR BW by actively misconstruing player involvement, skill level, and effort; all of which you did, is a very dishonest argument. Your post basically implied majority of the female players were: worse than the average BW player, giving no shits about BW and just hunting for the money, and showing token involvement. From what I hear, this is true of a few of the players. It is not true for majority.
On November 24 2018 01:07 [AS]Rattus wrote: nah, the more the better. and even if the female 1n1s were the worst ever played anywhere by anybody, the rest of the games wouldn't get worse because of their existence. so what could you have against them? that said, they aren't and i'm impressed at how fast they are improving.
I think the argument here is that given format, by definition a female match reduces the number of elite level games by top steamers. If this was a premiere tournament, I would strongly agree with them. A 2k player in ASL, KSL, or a KeSPA Proleague equivalent that hadn't qualified on merit is not something I would approve of.
However, this is an event match. It's not meant to be an elite event. It's entertainment. Being annoyed by female streamers or any other players being brought in for viewers, marketing and general inclusiveness of an event is baffling to me. It's like if I was hosting a basketball showmatch that required there be one player from the WNBA on the floor at all times for each team. It's the whole point of a fun showmatch to do something different, and it's entertaining to watch for the majority of people.
Brittany isn't including female players because he HAS to. He is including them because it's his event and he thinks it makes for a better, more entertaining event with a more solid viewer-base.
I assume those that are unhappy are those that like to watch exclusively top level KR BW. I can understand that, but everyone has different events they want to host and watch. Many people for instance enjoyed Gem League. Silly, bizzare maps, and numerous players at lower skill levels than these female BJs playing. If you don't like events like that, don't watch. Bitching about somebody hosting Gem League, contributing to the vibrancy of the scene, seems both counterproductive and a waste of time.
On October 15 2018 16:58 Ziggy wrote: Shame they're still opting to include female streamers. I understand the idea behind the publicity stunt, hope they garner enough attention to do away with that in the seasons to follow, though :d
What's wrong with testing the coaching abilities of the team? It's called a team for a reason. If the girl match is another point that could win you a series, you'll actually want this player on your team to improve. If the ranking was separate for those matches, then they would actually become a meaningless, token event and there would be no team interaction involved. It's better this way.
How is it better to have one shite game per match as opposed to having an extra set of actual pros playing?
You're implying the best of the best can't improve, ie they're flawless. The skill ceiling can always be raised and that is pretty much the whole point behind the idea of teamhouses and coaches - for players to improve through interaction. What's the point of wasting resources on female streamers who only got into StarCraft cause there was money to be made? I'd rather the competition had a rookie match, with teams coming together to inject new blood into the scene (with players who show actual promise, not C- scrubs like them streamers)
As I said, I hope MPL does well enough for Britney and Afreeca to do away with the streamer set in future seasons.
Beyond that, female streamers have a huge marketing value, especially if they are somewhat well known streamers. They will draw in a variety of viewers that wouldn't otherwise be watching. Do you not think that marketing is a good tactic and good for the scene? It's good for male viewers because we know how guys react to females playing games they like...i.e. it draws them in. It's also good for female gamers to see other females on stage succeeding.
thanks for summing up my first post on the matter
If you posted something like what I wrote, that makes no sense because you wrote:
What's the point of wasting resources on female streamers who only got into StarCraft cause there was money to be made?
The answer of course being what I wrote about marketing. You seem to know this yet still posted the above.
Outside of that, the rest of the stuff you wrote was more or less condescending nonsense (except about rookie progamers, where I agree with you strongly). I know CadenZie has been over 2k numerous times, seems I was off a little bit off, by 100-200 MMR on some of the other players, but you just dismissed my claim doing a token investigation of stats and thinking you knew better. In any event, players like Aegong and Darin are close to 2k MMR. In Korea no less. That's around top 2-3% of serious BW players (S is defined as top 1%). In no world is someone in the top couple percent a "scrub".
Scratch golfer? What a scrub! 500lb squat? Fucking scrub. 16:00 5k? Meh. Scrub.
Long ways off the pros, but those are all very solid levels, and not levels you achieve just hopping in once for some views and money.
Even a 1600 player is unlikely to be one jumping in just for the money. It takes at least a couple hundred hours for even a focused and talented person to reach that MMR, and for many guys they have been playing for years and are only around that level.
Advocating for only high level KR BW I can get behind. Advocating for only high level KR BW by actively misconstruing player involvement, skill level, and effort; all of which you did, is a very dishonest argument. Your post basically implied majority of the female players were: worse than the average BW player, giving no shits about BW and just hunting for the money, and showing token involvement. From what I hear, this is true of a few of the players. It is not true for majority.
Shame they're still opting to include female streamers. I understand the idea behind the publicity stunt, hope they garner enough attention to do away with that in the seasons to follow, though :d
this is my first post in the discussion
Also I don't see how you keep insisting they're top players when I literally disproved your point by checking all of their main accounts and showing you none of them have even broken the 2k mark (and even if they had they'd still be no match against top class players)
[...] actively misconstruing player involvement, skill level, and effort; all of which you did, is a very dishonest argument. Your post basically implied majority of the female players were: worse than the average BW player, giving no shits about BW and just hunting for the money, and showing token involvement. From what I hear, this is true of a few of the players. It is not true for majority
thanks for implying im a misogynistic piece of shit! nah, I wouldn't mind having TossGirl or Aphrodite around. I do mind when people get a free pass just cause they want to be part of something. We're not in preschool, not everyone can be a winner. And I care about top end StarCraft gameplay, which none of these streamers are capable of producing.
On October 15 2018 16:58 Ziggy wrote: Shame they're still opting to include female streamers. I understand the idea behind the publicity stunt, hope they garner enough attention to do away with that in the seasons to follow, though :d
What's wrong with testing the coaching abilities of the team? It's called a team for a reason. If the girl match is another point that could win you a series, you'll actually want this player on your team to improve. If the ranking was separate for those matches, then they would actually become a meaningless, token event and there would be no team interaction involved. It's better this way.
How is it better to have one shite game per match as opposed to having an extra set of actual pros playing?
You're implying the best of the best can't improve, ie they're flawless. The skill ceiling can always be raised and that is pretty much the whole point behind the idea of teamhouses and coaches - for players to improve through interaction. What's the point of wasting resources on female streamers who only got into StarCraft cause there was money to be made? I'd rather the competition had a rookie match, with teams coming together to inject new blood into the scene (with players who show actual promise, not C- scrubs like them streamers)
As I said, I hope MPL does well enough for Britney and Afreeca to do away with the streamer set in future seasons.
Beyond that, female streamers have a huge marketing value, especially if they are somewhat well known streamers. They will draw in a variety of viewers that wouldn't otherwise be watching. Do you not think that marketing is a good tactic and good for the scene? It's good for male viewers because we know how guys react to females playing games they like...i.e. it draws them in. It's also good for female gamers to see other females on stage succeeding.
thanks for summing up my first post on the matter
If you posted something like what I wrote, that makes no sense because you wrote:
What's the point of wasting resources on female streamers who only got into StarCraft cause there was money to be made?
The answer of course being what I wrote about marketing. You seem to know this yet still posted the above.
Outside of that, the rest of the stuff you wrote was more or less condescending nonsense (except about rookie progamers, where I agree with you strongly). I know CadenZie has been over 2k numerous times, seems I was off a little bit off, by 100-200 MMR on some of the other players, but you just dismissed my claim doing a token investigation of stats and thinking you knew better. In any event, players like Aegong and Darin are close to 2k MMR. In Korea no less. That's around top 2-3% of serious BW players (S is defined as top 1%). In no world is someone in the top couple percent a "scrub".
Scratch golfer? What a scrub! 500lb squat? Fucking scrub. 16:00 5k? Meh. Scrub.
Long ways off the pros, but those are all very solid levels, and not levels you achieve just hopping in once for some views and money.
Even a 1600 player is unlikely to be one jumping in just for the money. It takes at least a couple hundred hours for even a focused and talented person to reach that MMR, and for many guys they have been playing for years and are only around that level.
Advocating for only high level KR BW I can get behind. Advocating for only high level KR BW by actively misconstruing player involvement, skill level, and effort; all of which you did, is a very dishonest argument. Your post basically implied majority of the female players were: worse than the average BW player, giving no shits about BW and just hunting for the money, and showing token involvement. From what I hear, this is true of a few of the players. It is not true for majority.
Shame they're still opting to include female streamers. I understand the idea behind the publicity stunt, hope they garner enough attention to do away with that in the seasons to follow, though :d
this is my first post in the discussion
Yes, I saw that one and thought to was very reasonable.
Then you followed it up with what I quoted, where you literally asked "what's the point of wasting resources on female streamers". That is directly at odds with your first post. No way around that.
Not sure why you're directing me to your first post when it's the content of the second post I disagreed with and was discussing.
Yes, I saw that one and thought to was very reasonable.
Then you followed it up with what I quoted, where you literally asked "what's the point of wasting resources on female streamers". That is directly at odds with your first post. No way around that.
Not sure why you're directing me to your first post when it's the content of the second post I disagreed with and was discussing.
Because in your post you said:
What's wrong with testing the coaching abilities of the team? It's called a team for a reason. If the girl match is another point that could win you a series, you'll actually want this player on your team to improve.
From that I infer your point is the opportunity for testing the coaching abilities of the team
And the point I was making was that I'd rather the competition had a rookie match, with teams coming together to inject new blood into the scene (with players who show actual promise
Which means my second post does not contradict the first one, as I simply said I understand the idea behind the publicity stunt, but am in no way behind it.
On November 24 2018 03:00 Ziggy wrote: Also I don't see how you keep insisting they're top players when I literally disproved your point by checking all of their main accounts and showing you none of them have even broken the 2k mark (and even if they had they'd still be no match against top class players)
Agree absolutely that none of them could come remotely close to a top class player. In all honestly a Dewalt, Eon, etc. would wipe the floor with them. I'm not insisting they are top players because...they aren't. That in mind, they also aren't "C- scrubs". They are solid players, the majority in the top 1%-3% of BW skill. Any way you slice it that isn't a scrub.
CadenZie has been over 2k more often than not. She has gone almost to S rank on good runs.
As for the others you're also generally incorrect. Did you not see CadenZie's post?
It's below for reference, and strongly contradicts what you're saying:
On November 24 2018 00:47 CadenZie wrote: Hmm, firstly, most of them don;t play ladder but actually 사랑e, the lowest rank in terms of spon games and such has an 1883mmr acc, and aegong has one sitting at 1935 with 12-2.
Theyre better than you think cause most foreigners wouldn't get over 2k in korea as much as they think they would. Frankly even I often drop down to B and then back up to almost S like a yoyo its so difficult out here because every other player you face at 2k is a pro gamer on a new acc, also since we are usually streaming our ladder games the amount of pros/semi pro's trying to match into us to do funny strategies and win is kind of absurd sometimes. It's all good fun though, just don't take the ladder ranking too seriously.
On November 24 2018 03:00 Ziggy wrote: [...] actively misconstruing player involvement, skill level, and effort; all of which you did, is a very dishonest argument. Your post basically implied majority of the female players were: worse than the average BW player, giving no shits about BW and just hunting for the money, and showing token involvement. From what I hear, this is true of a few of the players. It is not true for majority
thanks for implying im a misogynistic piece of shit! nah, I wouldn't mind having TossGirl or Aphrodite around. I do mind when people get a free pass just cause they want to be part of something. We're not in preschool, not everyone can be a winner. And I care about top end StarCraft gameplay, which none of these streamers are capable of producing.
I'm not implying this, don't turn a discussion into an attack. I'm implying that you misrepresented the skill and motives of the players. Reading your post one would think you were dealing with money whoring, below average BW skill players being included. I don't think you did that because you're misogynistic and don't want women in BW. I think you phrased it that way because you are someone who wants to see primarily/exclusively top level elite BW. Its a much stronger argument against inclusion of players if they are below the 50% skill line and only in it for the money than if they are serious, long time players who are in the top couple % of BW playerbase skill level.
In fact, the argument is so much stronger that if the female players were really 1400 MMR and had only started playing BW when Brittany reached out to them, I would outright agree with you that I didn't want them there.
Yes, I saw that one and thought to was very reasonable.
Then you followed it up with what I quoted, where you literally asked "what's the point of wasting resources on female streamers". That is directly at odds with your first post. No way around that.
Not sure why you're directing me to your first post when it's the content of the second post I disagreed with and was discussing.
Because in your post you said:
What's wrong with testing the coaching abilities of the team? It's called a team for a reason. If the girl match is another point that could win you a series, you'll actually want this player on your team to improve.
From that I infer your point is the opportunity for testing the coaching abilities of the team
And the point I was making was that I'd rather the competition had a rookie match, with teams coming together to inject new blood into the scene (with players who show actual promise
Which means my second post does not contradict the first one, as I simply said I understand the idea behind the publicity stunt, but am in no way behind it.
I didn't post anything about coaching. I believe zerglingling did.
Honestly, if coaching was intended to be a significant factor of the league, I would agree with you that I'd rather see promising rookies at close to top level included over female players.
However, as a fun league with inclusiveness in mind, I think they make good sense to include. Ideally, I'd love to see an elite level teamleague with top players and a coaching component with one rookie/amateur match, but that isn't what this league is intended to be. Hopefully we will get a league like that sometime soon.
On November 24 2018 03:00 Ziggy wrote: Also I don't see how you keep insisting they're top players when I literally disproved your point by checking all of their main accounts and showing you none of them have even broken the 2k mark (and even if they had they'd still be no match against top class players)
Agree absolutely that none of them could come remotely close to a top class player. In all honestly a Dewalt, Eon, etc. would wipe the floor with them. I'm not insisting they are top players because...they aren't. That in mind, they also aren't "C- scrubs". They are solid players, the majority in the top 1%-3% of BW skill. Any way you slice it that isn't a scrub.
I believe this is where the issue lies. For me one is either a top player or a hasu. I don't see the difference between a D player and an A-rank guy - neither can compete at the top.
CadenZie has been over 2k more often than not. She has gone almost to S rank on good runs.
As for the others you're also generally incorrect. Did you not see CadenZie's post?
It's below for reference, and strongly contradicts what you're saying:
On November 24 2018 00:47 CadenZie wrote: Hmm, firstly, most of them don;t play ladder but actually 사랑e, the lowest rank in terms of spon games and such has an 1883mmr acc, and aegong has one sitting at 1935 with 12-2.
Theyre better than you think cause most foreigners wouldn't get over 2k in korea as much as they think they would. Frankly even I often drop down to B and then back up to almost S like a yoyo its so difficult out here because every other player you face at 2k is a pro gamer on a new acc, also since we are usually streaming our ladder games the amount of pros/semi pro's trying to match into us to do funny strategies and win is kind of absurd sometimes. It's all good fun though, just don't take the ladder ranking too seriously.
I you look closely I did not include CadenZie in my post as I'm fully aware she managed to break the 2k mark whilst playing in Korea. Anyhow, 12-2 is not a large enough pool of games to draw conclusions. One of those main accounts had ~500 games this season and the girl was a D rank. I won't bother checking again, it's beside the point.
On November 24 2018 03:00 Ziggy wrote: [...] actively misconstruing player involvement, skill level, and effort; all of which you did, is a very dishonest argument. Your post basically implied majority of the female players were: worse than the average BW player, giving no shits about BW and just hunting for the money, and showing token involvement. From what I hear, this is true of a few of the players. It is not true for majority
thanks for implying im a misogynistic piece of shit! nah, I wouldn't mind having TossGirl or Aphrodite around. I do mind when people get a free pass just cause they want to be part of something. We're not in preschool, not everyone can be a winner. And I care about top end StarCraft gameplay, which none of these streamers are capable of producing.
I'm not implying this, don't turn a discussion into an attack. I'm implying that you misrepresented the skill and motived of the players. Reading your post one would think you were dealing with money whoring, below average BW skill players being included. I don't think you did that because you're misogynistic and don't want women in BW. I think you phrased it that way because you are someone who wants to see primarily/exclusively top level elite BW. Its a much stronger argument against inclusion of players if they are below the 50% skill line and only in it for the money than if they are serious, long time players who are in the top couple % of BW playerbase skill level.
In fact, the argument is so much stronger that if the female players were really 1400 MMR and had only started playing BW when Brittany reached out to them, I would outright agree with you that I didn't want them there.
I mean you did say that Your post basically implied majority of the female players were: worse than the average BW player, giving no shits about BW and just hunting for the money, and showing token involvement. From what I hear, this is true of a few of the players. It is not true for majority
All right, let's disregard the supposed financial motivation. I'd still rather have top end competition (which none of these streamers can provide) and hope Britney and Afreeca choose to do away with the streamer set in the future.
All right, let's disregard the supposed financial motivation. I'd still rather have top end competition (which none of these streamers can provide) and hope Britney and Afreeca choose to do away with the streamer set in the future.
Sure. I can understand that. I personally hope events like this continue because I enjoy BW at the foreigner level or even lower, and think it's good overall for exclusivity and life. Rather than Brittany moving away from an event like this, I'd rather see this event remain and the rise of a new, elite level teamleague that would be comparable in prestige and skill to KSL/ASL.
On a personal level, I also support the inclusion of female players or leagues as they have in other sports. I think it's good top female players have a place to showcase their talent. There is basically an "LASL" already, but there aren't enough female players to truly establish a league, let alone a selective league based on elite female skill. If we reached that point, then I'd have less of an interest in a mixed format like what Britney has now, and would rather see an elite female teamleague and elite female starleague.
On November 24 2018 03:00 Ziggy wrote: I believe this is where the issue lies. For me one is either a top player or a hasu. I don't see the difference between a D player and an A-rank guy - neither can compete at the top.
I get that. In that sense there is no difference as you say. I will say, I enjoy KR level BW a good deal more than I enjoy foreign level BW, which comparatively is still Hasu level to top KR players. That said, sounds like we differ in that I personally enjoy foreign level BW, and sometimes even lower level foreign BW depending on the game.
I think the only area I "disagree" with you on is on wanting to see Brittany's league go away. I feel those leagues have a place. I'd just rather see growth that results in a top tier teamleague as well.
I think the only area I "disagree" with you on is on wanting to see Brittany's league go away. I feel those leagues have a place. I'd just rather see growth that results in a top tier teamleague as well.
wait, what? i never said i didnt want mpl to exist, i said id rather he simply did away with the streamer set, thats all
Outside of that, the rest of the stuff you wrote was more or less condescending nonsense (except about rookie progamers, where I agree with you strongly).
It has been pointed out some people took my opinion on the matter as a personal attack, which was in no way my initial intention. You can enjoy those girls' streams and I know they'll help the league garner additional attention. However, my personal preference when it comes to endeavours like MPL is that the best people get to compete as much as possible, i.e. I'm after the highest level of competition. And I think we can objectively agree that SKILLWISE the streamers in question are subpar in comparison with top end professionals, some of whom will unfortunately have to sit this season out as there's not enough room for everyone.
New Sniper Ridge Sin Baekdudaegan (?? someone correct me on the english spelling on this) Polaris Rhapsody Eye of Typhoon Tau Cross Grand Line Fighting Spirit Circuit Breakers
On December 02 2018 20:28 oxKnu wrote: Maps announced:
New Sniper Ridge Sin Baekdudaegan (?? someone correct me on the english spelling on this) Polaris Rhapsody Eye of Typhoon Tau Cross Grand Line Fighting Spirit Circuit Breakers
On December 02 2018 20:28 oxKnu wrote: Maps announced:
New Sniper Ridge Sin Baekdudaegan (?? someone correct me on the english spelling on this) Polaris Rhapsody Eye of Typhoon Tau Cross Grand Line Fighting Spirit Circuit Breakers
Nice I like how they lumped underperforming/ weird players together, (there are so many these days, basically everyone) so they can practice intra team and the cream and rise to the surface, so to speak.
If it counts, the coach has complete control over how the prize money is distributed, so they have more of an incentive to be active than players. Other than that I don't think there is any strict regulations.
EPT
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