The time has come to start up CPL season 3! For those of you who are unaware, the Coach Pupil League completed its second season last month. This is a unique league designed to help the newer and lower skilled players of our community improve in a competitive team league format. Play and improve alongside fellow players of your own skill level with the guidance of experienced coaches! For more information about season two, please check out the following YouTube channel of all previous casts and the liquipedia page which covers the league.
This thread will act as both an official sign up for those of you who are interested and as a poll thread for any significant format changes from season 2. As before, the exact format will not be decided until we have an accurate headcount and responses to the polls. In order to preserve fair levels of competition the soft cutoff between coaches and players was around 1900 MMR last season. If you were around this MMR before the ladder reset we will handle your sign up on a case by case basis to determine your eligibility.
What players can expect: 1. The opportunity to play up to one match a week vs an opponent of similar skill. 2. You do not have to participate every week. 3. You do not have to play at a specific time, but arranging to pre-play matches is up to you and your opponent. 4. Higher level players are expected to spend time assisting their team mates. 5. There are no minimum time requirements for participating, but the more you put into the CPL the more you get out of it!
What coaches can expect: 1. To spend some time to prepare your team members for their weekly matches. 2. All teams will have more than one coach to help with the time commitment. 3. Full autonomy in how they want to coach their players. 4. No requirements to handle team management (line-ups, substitutions, etc)
If you want to sign up for season 3, please provide the following information in this thread: 1. Battle.net account you consider your main account. 2. Discord account you will be joining the discord with. 3. Coach or Player 4. Approximate MMR. 5. Main Race/Matchups if race picker 6. (optional) If you have interest in volunteering for any admin work (team organization, liquipedia, casting, etc)
Only posts made in this thread will be considered an official sign up!
Then go join our discord server where most of the communication for the league will take place: https://discord.gg/BJWDeBg
Sign-ups will be open for at least two weeks. Once we have an accurate headcount and responses to the polls below I will post the main tourney thread with the full ruleset.
This season I would like to have a seeding tournament for all interested players followed by a draft. However, I have heard a lot of players are interested in keeping their current teams intact. While we won't be able to keep entire teams together in the interest of balance, we could group all players by timezone as we did for Season 2 which would result in many players ending up on the same team. Let me know which you prefer here!
The map pool from last season was largely based on the ladder maps. This season we can do the same or we can go for a larger variety of maps outside of the ladder.
☐ Should be entirely ladder maps ☐ Should be mostly ladder maps ☐ Should be mostly non-ladder maps
We have a weekly deadline for all matches to be played, with the option to organize an earlier time with your opponent to pre-play matches. Last season this deadline was Sunday 19:00 GMT (+00:00). Would you prefer this deadline to change?
☐ Keep Sunday 1500 EDT ☐ Move Later on Sunday ☐ Move Earlier on Sunday ☐ Move to 1500 EDT Saturday ☐ Move to later on Saturday ☐ Move to earlier on Saturday ☐ Move to sometime midweek
1. BillPrimo#1599 2. William Song#7224 3. Player 4. F-Rank - approx. 1240 5. Terran, although I am technically Terran/Protoss hybrid. If I can do two races, great, but if not, then I'll stick with Terran.
1. Dentarg 2. Dentarg 3. I thought about being co-coach and co-caster. because I don't know if I would have enough time to play I would like to give it a try to be a co-coach especially for b-teamers, I would like to give it a try to cast some games and creating some tutorials. 4. (not quite sure but should be around 1700+) 5. Protoss
1. Bnet: ArmadA#11634, ID: iNs.ArmadA (US West) 2. F10eQQ (already on discord) 3. Player 4. ~1600 5. Protoss Would prefer a protoss main coach if possible!
1. FlaShFTW#11480 and using TL.FlaShFTW for IGN 2. TL.FlaShFTW#8144 3. Player or Assistant Coach 4. 1700 but haven't played in a month so probably 1550 now LOL 5. Protoss or Terran (Terran is much weaker probably around 1400-1500) 6. Potential caster assuming my busy schedule opens up.
I demand that S2 Scientology Vessel be reunited. Me, Not Lemon, Armada, Scuzzy, Connor, Fox, Sky, Scara, Valar, Schamtoo
On August 23 2018 05:06 FlaShFTW wrote: 1. FlaShFTW#11480 and using TL.FlaShFTW for IGN 2. TL.FlaShFTW#8144 3. Player or Assistant Coach 4. 1700 but haven't played in a month so probably 1550 now LOL 5. Protoss or Terran (Terran is much weaker probably around 1400-1500) 6. Potential caster assuming my busy schedule opens up.
I demand that S2 Scientology Vessel be reunited. Me, Not Lemon, Armada, Scuzzy, Connor, Fox, Sky, Scara, Valar, Schamtoo
So many familiar and benevolent names on this roster Happy for you guys to have found one another.
1. HyperTurtle#1732 2. HyperTurtle#3849 3. Player 4. 1266 (dropping regularly) 5. Terran (But I'd appreciate some coaching for all 3 races if possible)
On August 23 2018 05:12 GGzerG wrote: 1. Telecom[WHITE] 2. Telecom 3. UP TO YOU 4. 2000+ 5. Protoss
Rofl Telecom in what universe are you 2000+ MMR
1. Telecom has never been known to properly estimate his skill when applying for a league.
2. Telecom was probably better than me not long before I hit 2000 in preparation for BSL this year and even less long before I hit over 2000 this past summer, so if anything then he is being more accurate this season than last season where he claimed 1800.
The other factor you have to consider, in fairness, is that he may selectively state his MMR based on whether it is his Korean VPN account, his Western MMR, or an imaginary number that helps him get to where he wants to be in the tournament to which he is applying to
1. Battle.net account you consider your main account. Qikz[WHITE]
2. Discord account you will be joining the discord with. Already in.
3. Coach or Player Player
4. Approximate MMR. 1850 (Old) - 1650 (New)ish
5. Main Race/Matchups if race picker Terran vs all, I'm no race traitor
6. (optional) If you have interest in volunteering for any admin work (team organization, liquipedia, casting, etc) I would love to but my hands are tied with all the STPL stuff.
1. Supremo#11422 2. SuperCyan 3. Player 4. 1300-1425 MMR 5. Zerg 6. I can create graphic design for various needs (graphic showing teams + matchups each week, team info+lineups, splash screen for twitch castings,etc.)
Skillfulquail#2444 SkilfulQuail Player- I will probably stream my games and would be happy to host/cocast, perhaps if someone does not have a strong enough pc to stream but enjoys casting? <3 1300-1400? Terran
1. James#15167 2. jamesuh#8799 3. Not sure whatever you guys decide 4. Not enough games played but I think I can barely hit 1900 if more active 5. Zerg (PvZ instead of ZvZ)
1. Kaboom#11523 2. badpenny#5423 3. Player 4. 1300 5. Protoss 6. I would likely have enough free time to help with the production of any written content that may be needed, especially with proofreading and stuff like that, I know it can be really tedious for writers.
On August 23 2018 05:06 FlaShFTW wrote: 1. FlaShFTW#11480 and using TL.FlaShFTW for IGN 2. TL.FlaShFTW#8144 3. Player or Assistant Coach 4. 1700 but haven't played in a month so probably 1550 now LOL 5. Protoss or Terran (Terran is much weaker probably around 1400-1500) 6. Potential caster assuming my busy schedule opens up.
I demand that S2 Scientology Vessel be reunited. Me, Not Lemon, Armada, Scuzzy, Connor, Fox, Sky, Scara, Valar, Schamtoo
1. Drexxin#1965 2. Drexxin#3968 3. Player 4. 1550~ (Peak 1603, currently main account is 1450 LUL) 5. Terran 6. Willing to volunteer assuming the timeslots and what's needed.
EDIT - I went through the thread and noticed basically everyone was a player, so in the desperate event that there's a shortage of coaches, I can try my best at that as I feel I understand the game at a decent level, just lack on execution :D.)
1. DumbInACan#1677 2. DumbInACan#2616 3. Player 4. I am brand new to playing broodwar competitively. I ended last season at 1332 mmr 5. Currently playing Protoss because that is what I play in SC2. 6. I am willing to help how ever I am able to, so feel free to ask me! :D
1. TheBlackHalo#1684 2. Tim#2361 3. Player? Tho I could probably be an assistant coach if needed? 4. 1850 in the new ladder season, hovered in the 1900s in the last one 5. Protoss
On August 23 2018 05:06 FlaShFTW wrote: 1. FlaShFTW#11480 and using TL.FlaShFTW for IGN 2. TL.FlaShFTW#8144 3. Player or Assistant Coach 4. 1700 but haven't played in a month so probably 1550 now LOL 5. Protoss or Terran (Terran is much weaker probably around 1400-1500) 6. Potential caster assuming my busy schedule opens up.
I demand that S2 Scientology Vessel be reunited. Me, Not Lemon, Armada, Scuzzy, Connor, Fox, Sky, Scara, Valar, Schamtoo
Feels bad :/
I knew I was missing people. I demand to also be with vik.
1. kevlarz #1956 2. kevlarz 3. Player 4. 1300 - 1400 5. Terran 6. Open to casting, but not committed as of yet. Would like to see how its handled as this would be my first season.
Please explain to me in great detail why was I banned from your discord? I was unfairly accused of being William Song's alt account which I'm clearly not, and was banned without even a warning or a word for it. I was being polite and this is how CPL admins treat people. I demand unban or at least a detailed account of why they decided to ban me from the server. Thank you.
On August 25 2018 05:35 jordeady wrote: Please explain to me in great detail why was I banned from your discord? I was unfairly accused of being William Song's alt account which I'm clearly not, and was banned without even a warning or a word for it. I was being polite and this is how CPL admins treat people. I demand unban or at least a detailed account of why they decided to ban me from the server. Thank you.
1. Indecision#1507 (us west, tag: GoodGravy) 2. ClickDecision#9388 3. Player 4. 1200ish MMR 5. Terran 6. I do have an interest in casting games if that's a possibility maybe ^
On August 25 2018 05:35 jordeady wrote: Please explain to me in great detail why was I banned from your discord? I was unfairly accused of being William Song's alt account which I'm clearly not, and was banned without even a warning or a word for it. I was being polite and this is how CPL admins treat people. I demand unban or at least a detailed account of why they decided to ban me from the server. Thank you.
I never mentioned that you were mocking Will, I just said a player. The fact that you know who means that you are not arguing in good faith right now. Additionally you insulted a region of SC players which is against our Code of Conduct Rule #1 "Do not maliciously harass or insult other members."
On August 23 2018 05:06 FlaShFTW wrote: 1. FlaShFTW#11480 and using TL.FlaShFTW for IGN 2. TL.FlaShFTW#8144 3. Player or Assistant Coach 4. 1700 but haven't played in a month so probably 1550 now LOL 5. Protoss or Terran (Terran is much weaker probably around 1400-1500) 6. Potential caster assuming my busy schedule opens up.
I demand that S2 Scientology Vessel be reunited. Me, Not Lemon, Armada, Scuzzy, Connor, Fox, Sky, Scara, Valar, Schamtoo
So many familiar and benevolent names on this roster Happy for you guys to have found one another.
On August 25 2018 05:35 jordeady wrote: Please explain to me in great detail why was I banned from your discord? I was unfairly accused of being William Song's alt account which I'm clearly not, and was banned without even a warning or a word for it. I was being polite and this is how CPL admins treat people. I demand unban or at least a detailed account of why they decided to ban me from the server. Thank you.
#freebillprimo
On August 25 2018 13:57 AUgrimZ wrote: Discord: grimZ#5276 Battle.net: grimZ#6419 Player, Protoss, 1300 Aprox
1. SockMyDuckBlizz (EU) 2. Adel#0761 3. Player 4. 1431 currently (https://starlog.gg/en/profile/europe/SockMyDuckBlizz) 5. Protoss 6. Im fine with helping out on anything but I'll be offline for the first half of September due to moving out to a new apartment.
Just in case my message in Discord did not go through...
Due to recent security issues I've had in terms of relationships I've had with other people in the server, as well as being impersonated by another player (whose name I shall not mention but some of you should already know who it was), this post is to let you guys know that I've redacted my request to join a team.
Getting involved in teams is fun and all, but if I can't feel welcome and safe in the community and be treated as equals, then there is no point in the involvement as I feel as though I'd be potentially exposed to even more antagonization if I were to get involved in a team. As it stands, it's no longer a matter of me being afraid of losses - it's a matter of my own security.
I will, however, stick around in the server as a non-team player. If I require any assistance from other players or coaches, I shall ask them directly. However, I must request others to respect my peace as I work to reestablish my trust with the server and its members.
I would like to extend my deepest apologies to Chessz, Anthem, and many others who expected me to join a team. However, if I am to join a team again, I will require a guarantee that my safety will be insured at all times, as well as a guarantee that I will be treated as equals without being discriminated by others. I'm sure you all will understand.
On August 26 2018 13:31 BillPrimo wrote: Just in case my message in Discord did not go through...
Due to recent security issues I've had in terms of relationships I've had with other people in the server, as well as being impersonated by another player (whose name I shall not mention but some of you should already know who it was), this post is to let you guys know that I've redacted my request to join a team.
Getting involved in teams is fun and all, but if I can't feel welcome and safe in the community and be treated as equals, then there is no point in the involvement as I feel as though I'd be potentially exposed to even more antagonization if I were to get involved in a team. As it stands, it's no longer a matter of me being afraid of losses - it's a matter of my own security.
I will, however, stick around in the server as a non-team player. If I require any assistance from other players or coaches, I shall ask them directly. However, I must request others to respect my peace as I work to reestablish my trust with the server and its members.
I would like to extend my deepest apologies to Chessz, Anthem, and many others who expected me to join a team. However, if I am to join a team again, I will require a guarantee that my safety will be insured at all times, as well as a guarantee that I will be treated as equals without being discriminated by others. I'm sure you all will understand.
Bill I don't think the internet is a place for you
I missed the last one but for this season i ll try
1. WGTBaal#1874 2. ash.baal 3. Player 4. varying wildly lately but around 1650 5. Protoss (though I m around 1450 Z and I wouldnt mind improving too, if there are too many P)
Is casting done from replays or live? I and a couple friends might want to join to cast but our schedules are a little random so doing it from replays might be easier.
On August 27 2018 02:31 GoShox wrote: Is casting done from replays or live? I and a couple friends might want to join to cast but our schedules are a little random so doing it from replays might be easier.
Casting is pretty much exclusively done from replays, players have a week to play their matches so games are scattered and hard to do live. Last season only the grand finals were done live, with previous weekly casts spread throughout the week when people could do them, so there should be no problem there!
That said we seem to have A LOT of interest in casting this season so far based on sign-ups. If everyone who's interested in casting does cast, there may not be enough games played for everyone to cast every week.
On August 26 2018 23:29 WGT-Baal wrote:
5. Protoss (though I m around 1450 Z and I wouldnt mind improving too, if there are too many P)
You can work on both match-ups or change your race from week to week if you want to play both. Last season we had almost too many Zergs. In Season 2 we had the most Zergs and least Protoss sign up.. So far distribution is looking closer for Season 3 however.
On August 27 2018 03:03 lazersnipe wrote: That said we seem to have A LOT of interest in casting this season so far based on sign-ups. If everyone who's interested in casting does cast, there may not be enough games played for everyone to cast every week.
imho, it may be best to not even consider who's casted what or not. It may be best to just let people cast whatever.
On August 27 2018 03:03 lazersnipe wrote: That said we seem to have A LOT of interest in casting this season so far based on sign-ups. If everyone who's interested in casting does cast, there may not be enough games played for everyone to cast every week.
imho, it may be best to not even consider who's casted what or not. It may be best to just let people cast whatever.
Depends on what the league's goals are IMO. If it's education, then letting someone who is like 1000 MMR cast would be counterproductive. If it's community-building and inclusion, I'd say that you could just publicize all of the replays and make it a first-come first-serve system on Google sheets. If casting is not a crucial element to the league outside of finals, then just provide weekly rep packs and let the people do whatever they want.
However, I do think there is something demotivational about not having a dedicated channel for CPL casts, or casting a game that others have already casted and thus you are not likely to get many viewers, etc.
1. Battle.net account you consider your main account. : atrox#2456 2. Discord account you will be joining the discord with. allandarity 3. Coach or Player player 4. Approximate MMR. 1500 5. Main Race/Matchups if race picker ZvX 6. (optional) If you have interest in volunteering for any admin work (team organization, liquipedia, casting, etc)
On August 27 2018 03:03 lazersnipe wrote: That said we seem to have A LOT of interest in casting this season so far based on sign-ups. If everyone who's interested in casting does cast, there may not be enough games played for everyone to cast every week.
imho, it may be best to not even consider who's casted what or not. It may be best to just let people cast whatever.
Depends on what the league's goals are IMO. If it's education, then letting someone who is like 1000 MMR cast would be counterproductive. If it's community-building and inclusion, I'd say that you could just publicize all of the replays and make it a first-come first-serve system on Google sheets. If casting is not a crucial element to the league outside of finals, then just provide weekly rep packs and let the people do whatever they want.
However, I do think there is something demotivational about not having a dedicated channel for CPL casts, or casting a game that others have already casted and thus you are not likely to get many viewers, etc.
Multi-faceted issue for sure.
If the CPL is for learning, then let people cast whatever they want. I learn way more casting than I do in most other situations. A 1000mmr person casting isn't where you should be getting your learnings from. It should be the coach.
And why stop with just learning Brood War, if someone wants to cast and ask for feedback, I'll give it to them.
Also, if you're casting for views or caring about that then I think thats the wrong idea for casting in general, especially for new casters. New casters won't get views for months until they get comfy with casting. Cast whatever comes your way, imho.
On August 27 2018 03:03 lazersnipe wrote: That said we seem to have A LOT of interest in casting this season so far based on sign-ups. If everyone who's interested in casting does cast, there may not be enough games played for everyone to cast every week.
imho, it may be best to not even consider who's casted what or not. It may be best to just let people cast whatever.
Depends on what the league's goals are IMO. If it's education, then letting someone who is like 1000 MMR cast would be counterproductive. If it's community-building and inclusion, I'd say that you could just publicize all of the replays and make it a first-come first-serve system on Google sheets. If casting is not a crucial element to the league outside of finals, then just provide weekly rep packs and let the people do whatever they want.
However, I do think there is something demotivational about not having a dedicated channel for CPL casts, or casting a game that others have already casted and thus you are not likely to get many viewers, etc.
Multi-faceted issue for sure.
If the CPL is for learning, then let people cast whatever they want. I learn way more casting than I do in most other situations. A 1000mmr person casting isn't where you should be getting your learnings from. It should be the coach.
And why stop with just learning Brood War, if someone wants to cast and ask for feedback, I'll give it to them.
Also, if you're casting for views or caring about that then I think thats the wrong idea for casting in general, especially for new casters. New casters won't get views for months until they get comfy with casting. Cast whatever comes your way, imho.
So why don't these 1000 MMR people cast games right now, from their own replays or from pro replays? They don't need a league at all to cast replays and learn from the experience. Also, what is it about casting that makes you learn more than from just watching the replay?
My point is that if you're having designated casters for a learning league, ideally they should be on the level of the coaches or thereabout, particularly in terms of game knowledge, so that they can be learning tools and perhaps point out things that the coach may not notice.
We're on the same page concerning the rest of your post.
On August 27 2018 03:03 lazersnipe wrote: That said we seem to have A LOT of interest in casting this season so far based on sign-ups. If everyone who's interested in casting does cast, there may not be enough games played for everyone to cast every week.
imho, it may be best to not even consider who's casted what or not. It may be best to just let people cast whatever.
Depends on what the league's goals are IMO. If it's education, then letting someone who is like 1000 MMR cast would be counterproductive. If it's community-building and inclusion, I'd say that you could just publicize all of the replays and make it a first-come first-serve system on Google sheets. If casting is not a crucial element to the league outside of finals, then just provide weekly rep packs and let the people do whatever they want.
However, I do think there is something demotivational about not having a dedicated channel for CPL casts, or casting a game that others have already casted and thus you are not likely to get many viewers, etc.
Multi-faceted issue for sure.
If the CPL is for learning, then let people cast whatever they want. I learn way more casting than I do in most other situations. A 1000mmr person casting isn't where you should be getting your learnings from. It should be the coach.
And why stop with just learning Brood War, if someone wants to cast and ask for feedback, I'll give it to them.
Also, if you're casting for views or caring about that then I think thats the wrong idea for casting in general, especially for new casters. New casters won't get views for months until they get comfy with casting. Cast whatever comes your way, imho.
So why don't these 1000 MMR people cast games right now, from their own replays or from pro replays? They don't need a league at all to cast replays and learn from the experience. Also, what is it about casting that makes you learn more than from just watching the replay?
My point is that if you're having designated casters for a learning league, ideally they should be on the level of the coaches or thereabout, particularly in terms of game knowledge, so that they can be learning tools and perhaps point out things that the coach may not notice.
We're on the same page concerning the rest of your post.
I'm a B-team noob and B-team caster. Yes learning happens while casting, basically the same as just watching replays. But sometimes a cast is more about just having fun with the game we all love. It's fun for everyone to have their moment or see their name in lights, and build storylines in the league.
If a person really wants a deep dive into their mistakes and getting feedback, they can go over it with coaches 1 on 1.
I don't cast for viewers or for trying to educate or anything (if those are latent effects, cool) I just try to spread love and enjoy the game with people who also enjoy it.
On August 27 2018 03:03 lazersnipe wrote: That said we seem to have A LOT of interest in casting this season so far based on sign-ups. If everyone who's interested in casting does cast, there may not be enough games played for everyone to cast every week.
imho, it may be best to not even consider who's casted what or not. It may be best to just let people cast whatever.
Depends on what the league's goals are IMO. If it's education, then letting someone who is like 1000 MMR cast would be counterproductive. If it's community-building and inclusion, I'd say that you could just publicize all of the replays and make it a first-come first-serve system on Google sheets. If casting is not a crucial element to the league outside of finals, then just provide weekly rep packs and let the people do whatever they want.
However, I do think there is something demotivational about not having a dedicated channel for CPL casts, or casting a game that others have already casted and thus you are not likely to get many viewers, etc.
Multi-faceted issue for sure.
If the CPL is for learning, then let people cast whatever they want. I learn way more casting than I do in most other situations. A 1000mmr person casting isn't where you should be getting your learnings from. It should be the coach.
And why stop with just learning Brood War, if someone wants to cast and ask for feedback, I'll give it to them.
Also, if you're casting for views or caring about that then I think thats the wrong idea for casting in general, especially for new casters. New casters won't get views for months until they get comfy with casting. Cast whatever comes your way, imho.
So why don't these 1000 MMR people cast games right now, from their own replays or from pro replays? They don't need a league at all to cast replays and learn from the experience. Also, what is it about casting that makes you learn more than from just watching the replay?
My point is that if you're having designated casters for a learning league, ideally they should be on the level of the coaches or thereabout, particularly in terms of game knowledge, so that they can be learning tools and perhaps point out things that the coach may not notice.
We're on the same page concerning the rest of your post.
I'm a B-team noob and B-team caster. Yes learning happens while casting, basically the same as just watching replays. But sometimes a cast is more about just having fun with the game we all love. It's fun for everyone to have their moment or see their name in lights, and build storylines in the league.
If a person really wants a deep dive into their mistakes and getting feedback, they can go over it with coaches 1 on 1.
I don't cast for viewers or for trying to educate or anything (if those are latent effects, cool) I just try to spread love and enjoy the game with people who also enjoy it.
Just to clarify, I'm not arguing against anyone's right to cast games, I'm arguing that having a more experienced player as a caster makes more sense in this specific educational setting, and I haven't really seen a counterargument to this point. If you look back to my first post in this chain, you will see that I think it depends on what the organizational goals for the league are, and that your approach is certainly covered by one of the options. Fun is always a necessity for staying involved in games and participating in community efforts such as this, I am not denying that. With such an abundance of people who say they are interested in casting, it's quite possible that there could be multiple casts for one game, depending on how its managed, but again, I am of the opinion that it makes the most sense to have the "official" stream (if this is still a thing) for the league to have the best players available to commentate it.
What I'm going to suggest is that we should allow the less experienced players to cast, but it would be best if we have them cast alongside a more experienced player so they can correct things they might say in error, or point out things they might have missed etc.
2000+ MMR isn't even that high wtf.... and also I went 11-0 or 12-0 last season, make me a player if you want, but no one on any A team is my level.
EDIT : Actually i guess i am dazed and confused still, my current MMR is like 1850 "A" rank, was thinking of last season I guess lol, but 2000+ still won't be that hard to get bro
On August 27 2018 03:03 lazersnipe wrote: That said we seem to have A LOT of interest in casting this season so far based on sign-ups. If everyone who's interested in casting does cast, there may not be enough games played for everyone to cast every week.
imho, it may be best to not even consider who's casted what or not. It may be best to just let people cast whatever.
Depends on what the league's goals are IMO. If it's education, then letting someone who is like 1000 MMR cast would be counterproductive. If it's community-building and inclusion, I'd say that you could just publicize all of the replays and make it a first-come first-serve system on Google sheets. If casting is not a crucial element to the league outside of finals, then just provide weekly rep packs and let the people do whatever they want.
However, I do think there is something demotivational about not having a dedicated channel for CPL casts, or casting a game that others have already casted and thus you are not likely to get many viewers, etc.
Multi-faceted issue for sure.
If the CPL is for learning, then let people cast whatever they want. I learn way more casting than I do in most other situations. A 1000mmr person casting isn't where you should be getting your learnings from. It should be the coach.
And why stop with just learning Brood War, if someone wants to cast and ask for feedback, I'll give it to them.
Also, if you're casting for views or caring about that then I think thats the wrong idea for casting in general, especially for new casters. New casters won't get views for months until they get comfy with casting. Cast whatever comes your way, imho.
So why don't these 1000 MMR people cast games right now, from their own replays or from pro replays? They don't need a league at all to cast replays and learn from the experience. Also, what is it about casting that makes you learn more than from just watching the replay?
My point is that if you're having designated casters for a learning league, ideally they should be on the level of the coaches or thereabout, particularly in terms of game knowledge, so that they can be learning tools and perhaps point out things that the coach may not notice.
We're on the same page concerning the rest of your post.
I'm a B-team noob and B-team caster. Yes learning happens while casting, basically the same as just watching replays. But sometimes a cast is more about just having fun with the game we all love. It's fun for everyone to have their moment or see their name in lights, and build storylines in the league.
If a person really wants a deep dive into their mistakes and getting feedback, they can go over it with coaches 1 on 1.
I don't cast for viewers or for trying to educate or anything (if those are latent effects, cool) I just try to spread love and enjoy the game with people who also enjoy it.
Just to clarify, I'm not arguing against anyone's right to cast games, I'm arguing that having a more experienced player as a caster makes more sense in this specific educational setting, and I haven't really seen a counterargument to this point. If you look back to my first post in this chain, you will see that I think it depends on what the organizational goals for the league are, and that your approach is certainly covered by one of the options. Fun is always a necessity for staying involved in games and participating in community efforts such as this, I am not denying that. With such an abundance of people who say they are interested in casting, it's quite possible that there could be multiple casts for one game, depending on how its managed, but again, I am of the opinion that it makes the most sense to have the "official" stream (if this is still a thing) for the league to have the best players available to commentate it.
But it turns out that the CPL casting is not really a "specific educational setting" in general, especially for casting b-team games from last week. What we discovered last season was that there was plenty of A-team games that were more ripe for analysis overall than B-team games, so the B-team casting (although we still obviously discussed the game) had a little more of a fun/grudge/comedy angle to it. The response was positive. Even though it's called Coach Pupil League by name, it's also about having an organized outlet to have fun with other people your skill level.
Trust me, there is room for the educational content, and a lot that b-teamers could learn by just tuning into some A-team casts. Plus coaches made some helpful videos and build tutorials and other educational content. There is not an "official" stream per-se, just that the admins wanted to avoid casting the same game 2x just for youtube archival purposes. and in all honesty, the high level / analytical / educational content is already out there and it's kinda super-saturated IMO.
1. Quirinus#2835 (EU) 2. Quirinus#8320 3. Coach, preferably co-coach 4. 2100 mmr last season (EU) 5. All except ZvZ 6. Could help with LP (I'm an old editor), and maybe co-casting (because I'm not sure if my computer is good enough for actually streaming).
On August 27 2018 03:03 lazersnipe wrote: That said we seem to have A LOT of interest in casting this season so far based on sign-ups. If everyone who's interested in casting does cast, there may not be enough games played for everyone to cast every week.
imho, it may be best to not even consider who's casted what or not. It may be best to just let people cast whatever.
Depends on what the league's goals are IMO. If it's education, then letting someone who is like 1000 MMR cast would be counterproductive. If it's community-building and inclusion, I'd say that you could just publicize all of the replays and make it a first-come first-serve system on Google sheets. If casting is not a crucial element to the league outside of finals, then just provide weekly rep packs and let the people do whatever they want.
However, I do think there is something demotivational about not having a dedicated channel for CPL casts, or casting a game that others have already casted and thus you are not likely to get many viewers, etc.
Multi-faceted issue for sure.
If the CPL is for learning, then let people cast whatever they want. I learn way more casting than I do in most other situations. A 1000mmr person casting isn't where you should be getting your learnings from. It should be the coach.
And why stop with just learning Brood War, if someone wants to cast and ask for feedback, I'll give it to them.
Also, if you're casting for views or caring about that then I think thats the wrong idea for casting in general, especially for new casters. New casters won't get views for months until they get comfy with casting. Cast whatever comes your way, imho.
So why don't these 1000 MMR people cast games right now, from their own replays or from pro replays? They don't need a league at all to cast replays and learn from the experience. Also, what is it about casting that makes you learn more than from just watching the replay?
My point is that if you're having designated casters for a learning league, ideally they should be on the level of the coaches or thereabout, particularly in terms of game knowledge, so that they can be learning tools and perhaps point out things that the coach may not notice.
We're on the same page concerning the rest of your post.
I'm a B-team noob and B-team caster. Yes learning happens while casting, basically the same as just watching replays. But sometimes a cast is more about just having fun with the game we all love. It's fun for everyone to have their moment or see their name in lights, and build storylines in the league.
If a person really wants a deep dive into their mistakes and getting feedback, they can go over it with coaches 1 on 1.
I don't cast for viewers or for trying to educate or anything (if those are latent effects, cool) I just try to spread love and enjoy the game with people who also enjoy it.
Just to clarify, I'm not arguing against anyone's right to cast games, I'm arguing that having a more experienced player as a caster makes more sense in this specific educational setting, and I haven't really seen a counterargument to this point. If you look back to my first post in this chain, you will see that I think it depends on what the organizational goals for the league are, and that your approach is certainly covered by one of the options. Fun is always a necessity for staying involved in games and participating in community efforts such as this, I am not denying that. With such an abundance of people who say they are interested in casting, it's quite possible that there could be multiple casts for one game, depending on how its managed, but again, I am of the opinion that it makes the most sense to have the "official" stream (if this is still a thing) for the league to have the best players available to commentate it.
Im curious Jealous, did you watch the casting from season 2? Are you saying this from being dissatisfied with what happened? Originally it wasn't likely that every game was gonna be casted at all. The casters the came together to cast every single game, did a fantastic job ( full disclosure I casted as well) provding a fun cast, while also weighing in with advice and more analysis when possible. I think it was a great system and dont see the need to make anything official.
On August 27 2018 03:03 lazersnipe wrote: That said we seem to have A LOT of interest in casting this season so far based on sign-ups. If everyone who's interested in casting does cast, there may not be enough games played for everyone to cast every week.
imho, it may be best to not even consider who's casted what or not. It may be best to just let people cast whatever.
Depends on what the league's goals are IMO. If it's education, then letting someone who is like 1000 MMR cast would be counterproductive. If it's community-building and inclusion, I'd say that you could just publicize all of the replays and make it a first-come first-serve system on Google sheets. If casting is not a crucial element to the league outside of finals, then just provide weekly rep packs and let the people do whatever they want.
However, I do think there is something demotivational about not having a dedicated channel for CPL casts, or casting a game that others have already casted and thus you are not likely to get many viewers, etc.
Multi-faceted issue for sure.
If the CPL is for learning, then let people cast whatever they want. I learn way more casting than I do in most other situations. A 1000mmr person casting isn't where you should be getting your learnings from. It should be the coach.
And why stop with just learning Brood War, if someone wants to cast and ask for feedback, I'll give it to them.
Also, if you're casting for views or caring about that then I think thats the wrong idea for casting in general, especially for new casters. New casters won't get views for months until they get comfy with casting. Cast whatever comes your way, imho.
So why don't these 1000 MMR people cast games right now, from their own replays or from pro replays? They don't need a league at all to cast replays and learn from the experience. Also, what is it about casting that makes you learn more than from just watching the replay?
My point is that if you're having designated casters for a learning league, ideally they should be on the level of the coaches or thereabout, particularly in terms of game knowledge, so that they can be learning tools and perhaps point out things that the coach may not notice.
We're on the same page concerning the rest of your post.
I'm a B-team noob and B-team caster. Yes learning happens while casting, basically the same as just watching replays. But sometimes a cast is more about just having fun with the game we all love. It's fun for everyone to have their moment or see their name in lights, and build storylines in the league.
If a person really wants a deep dive into their mistakes and getting feedback, they can go over it with coaches 1 on 1.
I don't cast for viewers or for trying to educate or anything (if those are latent effects, cool) I just try to spread love and enjoy the game with people who also enjoy it.
Just to clarify, I'm not arguing against anyone's right to cast games, I'm arguing that having a more experienced player as a caster makes more sense in this specific educational setting, and I haven't really seen a counterargument to this point. If you look back to my first post in this chain, you will see that I think it depends on what the organizational goals for the league are, and that your approach is certainly covered by one of the options. Fun is always a necessity for staying involved in games and participating in community efforts such as this, I am not denying that. With such an abundance of people who say they are interested in casting, it's quite possible that there could be multiple casts for one game, depending on how its managed, but again, I am of the opinion that it makes the most sense to have the "official" stream (if this is still a thing) for the league to have the best players available to commentate it.
Im curious Jealous, did you watch the casting from season 2? Are you saying this from being dissatisfied with what happened? Originally it wasn't likely that every game was gonna be casted at all. The casters the came together to cast every single game, did a fantastic job ( full disclosure I casted as well) provding a fun cast, while also weighing in with advice and more analysis when possible. I think it was a great system and dont see the need to make anything official.
Yo long time no chat!
Yes, I caught a few games but I doubt I saw every caster that worked on CPL2. I wouldn't say I was dissatisfied because I took them at face value without any real expectations for them to follow any philosophical approach I may have.
Again, I'm not saying this to shit on low level players or casters. I've tried to make that clear but if it wasn't then I apologize. I'm simply making the argument that one alternative may be better than the other in this context, and I feel this makes sense to discuss now, when the league is in its formative stages.
On August 27 2018 03:03 lazersnipe wrote: That said we seem to have A LOT of interest in casting this season so far based on sign-ups. If everyone who's interested in casting does cast, there may not be enough games played for everyone to cast every week.
imho, it may be best to not even consider who's casted what or not. It may be best to just let people cast whatever.
Depends on what the league's goals are IMO. If it's education, then letting someone who is like 1000 MMR cast would be counterproductive. If it's community-building and inclusion, I'd say that you could just publicize all of the replays and make it a first-come first-serve system on Google sheets. If casting is not a crucial element to the league outside of finals, then just provide weekly rep packs and let the people do whatever they want.
However, I do think there is something demotivational about not having a dedicated channel for CPL casts, or casting a game that others have already casted and thus you are not likely to get many viewers, etc.
Multi-faceted issue for sure.
If the CPL is for learning, then let people cast whatever they want. I learn way more casting than I do in most other situations. A 1000mmr person casting isn't where you should be getting your learnings from. It should be the coach.
And why stop with just learning Brood War, if someone wants to cast and ask for feedback, I'll give it to them.
Also, if you're casting for views or caring about that then I think thats the wrong idea for casting in general, especially for new casters. New casters won't get views for months until they get comfy with casting. Cast whatever comes your way, imho.
So why don't these 1000 MMR people cast games right now, from their own replays or from pro replays? They don't need a league at all to cast replays and learn from the experience. Also, what is it about casting that makes you learn more than from just watching the replay?
My point is that if you're having designated casters for a learning league, ideally they should be on the level of the coaches or thereabout, particularly in terms of game knowledge, so that they can be learning tools and perhaps point out things that the coach may not notice.
We're on the same page concerning the rest of your post.
I'm a B-team noob and B-team caster. Yes learning happens while casting, basically the same as just watching replays. But sometimes a cast is more about just having fun with the game we all love. It's fun for everyone to have their moment or see their name in lights, and build storylines in the league.
If a person really wants a deep dive into their mistakes and getting feedback, they can go over it with coaches 1 on 1.
I don't cast for viewers or for trying to educate or anything (if those are latent effects, cool) I just try to spread love and enjoy the game with people who also enjoy it.
Just to clarify, I'm not arguing against anyone's right to cast games, I'm arguing that having a more experienced player as a caster makes more sense in this specific educational setting, and I haven't really seen a counterargument to this point. If you look back to my first post in this chain, you will see that I think it depends on what the organizational goals for the league are, and that your approach is certainly covered by one of the options. Fun is always a necessity for staying involved in games and participating in community efforts such as this, I am not denying that. With such an abundance of people who say they are interested in casting, it's quite possible that there could be multiple casts for one game, depending on how its managed, but again, I am of the opinion that it makes the most sense to have the "official" stream (if this is still a thing) for the league to have the best players available to commentate it.
Im curious Jealous, did you watch the casting from season 2? Are you saying this from being dissatisfied with what happened? Originally it wasn't likely that every game was gonna be casted at all. The casters the came together to cast every single game, did a fantastic job ( full disclosure I casted as well) provding a fun cast, while also weighing in with advice and more analysis when possible. I think it was a great system and dont see the need to make anything official.
Yo long time no chat!
Yes, I caught a few games but I doubt I saw every caster that worked on CPL2. I wouldn't say I was dissatisfied because I took them at face value without any real expectations for them to follow any philosophical approach I may have.
Again, I'm not saying this to shit on low level players or casters. I've tried to make that clear but if it wasn't then I apologize. I'm simply making the argument that one alternative may be better than the other in this context, and I feel this makes sense to discuss now, when the league is in its formative stages.
Yeah I think I see what your saying. I beleive for the CPL the more casual casting format is just as good because most of the casters are casting with their own teammates and there is some camaraderie there. Addidtionally there are going to be even more games per week to cast this season, and as well I think alot of the casters were pretty knowledgeable. Pisan, shoop & snipe, others as well. If we moved it to only offical like 1800+ or whatever players, we would really struggle to get the games done. But, I would be happy to post my casts here during this season and get your take.
On August 27 2018 03:03 lazersnipe wrote: That said we seem to have A LOT of interest in casting this season so far based on sign-ups. If everyone who's interested in casting does cast, there may not be enough games played for everyone to cast every week.
imho, it may be best to not even consider who's casted what or not. It may be best to just let people cast whatever.
Depends on what the league's goals are IMO. If it's education, then letting someone who is like 1000 MMR cast would be counterproductive. If it's community-building and inclusion, I'd say that you could just publicize all of the replays and make it a first-come first-serve system on Google sheets. If casting is not a crucial element to the league outside of finals, then just provide weekly rep packs and let the people do whatever they want.
However, I do think there is something demotivational about not having a dedicated channel for CPL casts, or casting a game that others have already casted and thus you are not likely to get many viewers, etc.
Multi-faceted issue for sure.
If the CPL is for learning, then let people cast whatever they want. I learn way more casting than I do in most other situations. A 1000mmr person casting isn't where you should be getting your learnings from. It should be the coach.
And why stop with just learning Brood War, if someone wants to cast and ask for feedback, I'll give it to them.
Also, if you're casting for views or caring about that then I think thats the wrong idea for casting in general, especially for new casters. New casters won't get views for months until they get comfy with casting. Cast whatever comes your way, imho.
So why don't these 1000 MMR people cast games right now, from their own replays or from pro replays? They don't need a league at all to cast replays and learn from the experience. Also, what is it about casting that makes you learn more than from just watching the replay?
My point is that if you're having designated casters for a learning league, ideally they should be on the level of the coaches or thereabout, particularly in terms of game knowledge, so that they can be learning tools and perhaps point out things that the coach may not notice.
We're on the same page concerning the rest of your post.
I'm a B-team noob and B-team caster. Yes learning happens while casting, basically the same as just watching replays. But sometimes a cast is more about just having fun with the game we all love. It's fun for everyone to have their moment or see their name in lights, and build storylines in the league.
If a person really wants a deep dive into their mistakes and getting feedback, they can go over it with coaches 1 on 1.
I don't cast for viewers or for trying to educate or anything (if those are latent effects, cool) I just try to spread love and enjoy the game with people who also enjoy it.
Just to clarify, I'm not arguing against anyone's right to cast games, I'm arguing that having a more experienced player as a caster makes more sense in this specific educational setting, and I haven't really seen a counterargument to this point. If you look back to my first post in this chain, you will see that I think it depends on what the organizational goals for the league are, and that your approach is certainly covered by one of the options. Fun is always a necessity for staying involved in games and participating in community efforts such as this, I am not denying that. With such an abundance of people who say they are interested in casting, it's quite possible that there could be multiple casts for one game, depending on how its managed, but again, I am of the opinion that it makes the most sense to have the "official" stream (if this is still a thing) for the league to have the best players available to commentate it.
Im curious Jealous, did you watch the casting from season 2? Are you saying this from being dissatisfied with what happened? Originally it wasn't likely that every game was gonna be casted at all. The casters the came together to cast every single game, did a fantastic job ( full disclosure I casted as well) provding a fun cast, while also weighing in with advice and more analysis when possible. I think it was a great system and dont see the need to make anything official.
Yo long time no chat!
Yes, I caught a few games but I doubt I saw every caster that worked on CPL2. I wouldn't say I was dissatisfied because I took them at face value without any real expectations for them to follow any philosophical approach I may have.
Again, I'm not saying this to shit on low level players or casters. I've tried to make that clear but if it wasn't then I apologize. I'm simply making the argument that one alternative may be better than the other in this context, and I feel this makes sense to discuss now, when the league is in its formative stages.
Yeah I think I see what your saying. I beleive for the CPL the more casual casting format is just as good because most of the casters are casting with their own teammates and there is some camaraderie there. Addidtionally there are going to be even more games per week to cast this season, and as well I think alot of the casters were pretty knowledgeable. Pisan, shoop & snipe, others as well. If we moved it to only offical like 1800+ or whatever players, we would really struggle to get the games done. But, I would be happy to post my casts here during this season and get your take.
Like I said, it depends on the goal of the league. If it is to get all the games casted, and there are not enough 1800+ casters willing, then obviously casual casting is the solution.
Beyond the discrepancy in educational content, you also run the risk of spreading misinformation - which is a disservice to the players and viewers who are actively trying to learn. Now, all casters are guilty of this at some point, that's unavoidable because we are all human and make mistakes. I remember that I made a relatively obvious blunder in a cast in Season 1 and thankfully it was pointed out to me in chat, so I'm not trying to sound like I'm on some high horse of perfect casting. However, it seems likely that lower level casters will make more errors when they try to reach for knowledge they may not be sure of, or if they say something they think is true but actually is not. I liked the solution proposed by another poster in this thread, which is having a low level caster and a high level caster on one broadcast. That seems like a great way to correct errors and to have mini-Q&A during the cast.
Also, I forgot to address the benefits of having an "official" and consistent cast - they can appear on the calendar in a consistent format which attracts more viewers week in and week out. I'm not saying that viewership should be a goal for the casters. I'm saying it because this is a community learning league and the more people it reaches, the more beneficial it is to the community IMO. From what I can tell, CPL has grown every season in terms of sign-ups, and I think community outreach is a major proponent of that.
Just wanted to make a note for league admins, I already made a sign-up post on page 5 of this thread, but I have since submitted a username change request to TL. Just noting this here to avoid any confusion down the line. I've also changed my Discord ID to match my new TL username/the name I will use to play (but not my battle.net account) to avoid confusion. Will edit my original sign-up post with my new Discord ID. Hopefully that's not a problem.
1. Psyonic#11952 2. PsyonicReaver#4073 3. Player but I will put in time to practice with my teammates. 4. ~1500 - 1700 (I fluctuate between high C and low B rank USWest) 5. Protoss 6. I wouldn't mind throwing my hat in the ring as a Caster but I can't host a live stream or live cast as obs with my current internet. But I can co-cast live off replays with someone if they host the stream. If someone needs clarifying ask me haha. 7. I'm an Oregon, USA PST timezone (-8 UTC)
I can also watch replays/record games and upload to YouTube on my own though.
So I want people's honest opinions here. I knew back in the 2009/2010 era I feel I was quite a more formidable Protoss and I would have no business in a CPL. (Heck I even coached the very first one from that era)
I'm honestly struggling now with Remastered Ladder and the more current strategies being employed. I'm being told quite often that I'm using outdated methods or inefficient strategies/timings. So I'm looking to ideally hone that level of play under a Protoss coach that is at least A Rank or Higher and maintains that level of play.
If the general consensus should be that I don't play, I will respect that and I would step back into just an assistant coach position and at least practice with those wanting to learn what knowledge I can share from the 20 years I've been playing this game off and on. Encourage proper scouting/macroing/etc.
On September 02 2018 06:35 Psyonic_Reaver wrote: 1. Psyonic#11952 2. PsyonicReaver#4073 3. Player but I will put in time to practice with my teammates. 4. ~1500 - 1700 (I fluctuate between high C and low B rank USWest) 5. Protoss 6. I wouldn't mind throwing my hat in the ring as a Caster but I can't live stream or live cast as obs with my current internet. I can watch replays/record games and upload to YouTube though.
So I want people's honest opinions here. I knew back in the 2009/2010 era I feel I was quite a more formidable Protoss and I would have no business in a CPL. (Heck I even coached the very first one from that era)
I'm honestly struggling now with Remastered Ladder and the more current strategies being employed. I'm being told quite often that I'm using outdated methods or inefficient strategies/timings. So I'm looking to ideally hone that level of play under a Protoss coach that is at least A Rank or Higher and maintains that level of play.
If the general consensus should be that I don't play, I will respect that and I would step back into just an assistant coach position and at least practice with those wanting to learn what knowledge I can share from the 20 years I've been playing this game off and on. Encourage proper scouting/macroing/etc.
Having played with you back then and kept up with the ladder up until March, if you are around the level you were in DRTL era, then I think you will be fine as a mid-high tier Team A player. Frankly I don't think an A rank player (although A rank is a wide margin) is absolutely necessary to bring you up to speed on current builds and reactions because in the PvX match-ups I don't think THAT much has changed since we last played, just some new things to be aware of and know how to react to, but if you do get one that's great. I might also be undervaluing the developments because I checked in once in a while and caught up on strategies and meta and stuff over the years. Either way, welcome back Cheers.
1. Siev#21991 2. Siev#1580 3. Player 4. ~1200 (not really sure, I'm not on the ladder yet. Have around 20% winrate on custom "noobs only 1v1" game") 5. Protoss 6. Yeah sounds fun, if there's anything I can do
Yeah man, this league is for everybody that wants to learn. There are a few people that are complete beginners. You should sign up. I almost didn't sign up last season and I'm really glad I did.
On September 03 2018 01:21 PearlLakeJesus wrote: Can I do this if I’ve never played brood war before? I am diamond league in Starcraft 2 but want to get into remastered.
Hey, absolutely! This is a great place to come if you're new to broodwar. The league has a wide range of Skill from completely new players to mid level, to some of the top foreigners (as coaches). As grezergre said it's open to anyone and a great place to learn/improve in a fun/semi competitive/learning environment.
1. Radivel-X17#1622 2. Radivel-X17#7247 3. Player 4. No idea what my MMR is, I don't ever 1v1 but I've badly played and watched 1000s of games. 5. Random, I guess. TBD, but it'd probably be P > Z > T since I can't bio. 6. I guess if someone I know wants me to cast games with them, I could figure out how to do that with some help. Or if there's some organizational help needed, but I don't know what that is. Like, I can't be counted on to update Liquipedia or something.
1. Düsterwesen#2448 2. Hreyfill#5437 3. Player 4. around or somewhat below 1200 (haven't played enough since the ladder reset) 5. Protoss 6. I would like to get into casting eventually, but I am not sure my computer can handle it at the current point in time
1. Ovechkin 2. EriCWesT 3. Player 4.1400 5. Terran is my main. I prefer TvP 6. (optional) If you have interest in volunteering for any admin work (team organization, liquipedia, casting, etc)
1. Glueburn 2. Glueburn#9571 3. Player 4. Haven't played in a while. Probably D- on Iccup. Also I'm switching to zerg so let's assume I almost don't know how to play the game. 5. Zerg 6. I have a good few life commitments, if there is anything not time sensitive that I can help out with then I might be interested.
1. Battle.net account you consider your main account. ~ Xp`Benevolence 2. Discord account you will be joining the discord with. ~ ThA.SiKeSt.GoD# 3. Player 4. Approximate MMR. ~ 1500 5. Main Race/Matchups if race picker ~ P vs Any 6. Not in a position to teach, Will play for fun~
*Saw that registration was over, Looking forward to next season*
EPT![[image loading]](http://liquipedia.net/commons/images/a/a9/CoachPupilLeague.jpg)
Coach Pupil League S2
erg
Happy for you guys to have found one another.
