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Personally I think it's pretty bullshit of MBC to give him such a huge pay cut. He'd be earning less than 1/3 of his previous earnings! You gotta sympathize with that, despite July not doing shit lately.
However, I agree w/ tfeign (mostly). Everyone just rags on him because he's a Chojja fanboy, but he does bring up good points imho. Chojja and July have done absolutely nothing in 2007, but Chojja did a helluva lot more than July did in 2006 (not as dominant as Savior, obviously). People talk about how Chojja is out of OSL and MSL, July's not in any of them either! How is that a good comparison? I don't see anything that July has done on an individual basis that overshadows Chojja's individual league results in 2006.
Edit: Whups Jyvblamo caught me there, July is in the current MSL >_>
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On May 08 2007 15:10 ArC_man wrote:
However, I agree w/ tfeign (mostly). Everyone just rags on him because he's a Chojja fanboy, but he does bring up good points imho. Chojja and July have done absolutely nothing in 2007, but Chojja did a helluva lot more than July did in 2006 (not as dominant as Savior, obviously). People talk about how Chojja is out of OSL and MSL, July's not in any of them either! How is that a good comparison? I don't see anything that July has done on an individual basis that overshadows Chojja's individual league results in 2006.
July is in the current MSL.
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United States5262 Posts
Hahaha, you getting that simple fact wrong totally discredits your post. HAHAHAHA
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On May 08 2007 02:13 oneofthem wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2007 18:49 funKie wrote:On May 07 2007 18:46 intelinside wrote:On May 07 2007 18:26 il0seonpurpose wrote:
I wouldn't even care how much I'm getting paid, as long as its ok, I mean they provide you with good housing, A NICE COMPUTER and ok food. If your team wins, you get some huge celebration.
And who did julyzerg play at last years proleagues finals and did he win? he beat Oov with pure lings. good game That game was pure abuse of micro and intelligence by July. Oov couldn't have done anything different to stop July. no, oov just lost his blocking stuff stupidly, and it was pretty close a mistake. no idea how it would have turned out had oov not lose his medic
I think July did that move simply because of that OSL final he lost to him 0-3. Remember that game on Rov? I bet in july's mind he always wanted to replay that game over and pushed for more lings at start. Hence, the ballsy aggression that game as a form of indirect revenge 
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On May 08 2007 15:19 jkillashark wrote:
Hahaha, you getting that simple fact wrong totally discredits your post. HAHAHAHA
Does it really? Because July in MSL doesn't exactly say much (other than the fact that I was wrong about that part). What's happened in 2006 has already happened and he has already been worse than Chojja in 2006, which was the main point in my post anyways.
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On May 08 2007 15:39 ArC_man wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2007 15:19 jkillashark wrote:
Hahaha, you getting that simple fact wrong totally discredits your post. HAHAHAHA Does it really? Because July in MSL doesn't exactly say much (other than the fact that I was wrong about that part). What's happened in 2006 has already happened and he has already been worse than Chojja in 2006, which was the main point in my post anyways.
How is 2006 more relevant than 2005 (when July was more dominant) if we think July in the current MSL "doesn't say much"...
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Well, the thing is 2007 isn't over yet, so we can't rank July overall 2007 performance to be outstanding yet. It obviously beats w/e Chojja has been putting up lately in 2007, I'll give you that. 2006 is already over and it's a whole year's worth of performance from both players and is the most complete and current form of judgment for both players IMHO.
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July missed his first OSL since mid 2004(Gillette the one he won). That's 9 OSLs in a row, a record he shared with GF. Only Boxer and maybe Yellow or Reach has a similar record. Chojja has missed way more OSLs, but been pretty regular in the MSLs. As of now Chojja is officially in the slump as he's in neither of the leagues. July however managed to qualify for MSL for the first time in a while.
As for results in major leagues:
Chojja won Cyon MSL(finals played january 2006) - however way easier maps than OSL for Zerg Dark Sauron(Oov lost to Mummy here, says alot), decent ZvT maps RoV&Rush Hour and R-Point(little harder ZvT positional imbalance). Chojja also mostly played Zergs on his way, except Xellos.
July got 2nd in Shinhanbank 2005(finals was played in Feb 2006?) - Terrible ZvT maps 815, Cultivation Period, then decent ZvT maps like RoV&Rush Hour. Defeated Iris on RH in the group and got trashed in the finals by the monster.
Chojja got 2nd in Shinhan 1(finals played in July 2006?) - Horrible ZvT maps 815, Pioneering Period & old Peaks(which was waaaaaaaay harder ZvT than the new one) then Rush Hour which is ok ZvT. Managed to beat Iris in a BO3, even winning on Peaks on his way to the final. Trounced in the finals only winning on RH.
July got 2nd in WCG(finals October 2006?) Awful maps ZvT Paranoid Android&Estrella, decent ZvT maps Azalea&Gaia. Managed to beat Oov on PA which is quite amazing, a combination of not good enough sunken-placement/timing in game 2, and terrible decisionmaking game 3 made him lose the finals.
Qualifying for WCG in Korea is fucking hard so dont give me that crap. And yes the players care,; its alot of money.
I think Julys proleague record overshadows Chojjas but I might be wrong. All in all they're pretty close in terms of results, although Julys consistensy in OSLs(always advanced from his group), have made a bigger impression than Chojjas frequent top placements in MSL. This is because OSL is more prestigious than MSL and has a history of having heavily Terran favoured maps especially in big disfavour of Zerg in the TvZ matchup.
This means eventhough Chojja has participated in more OSLs than July has participated in MSLs since Julys breakthrough in 2004(Chojjas history before that is not comparable to Julys. It would be close to the same as comparing Yellows MSL/OSL participations to Saviors), Julys results are more impressive. Not only do his accomplisments in terms of leagues won outshine Chojjas, but hes done it on hard as fuck ZvT maps too. Which is why he's more impressive.
July has won OSL twice, two 2nd places in OSL(equal to Chojja there), won the prestigous KT-KTF Premier league & the iTV finals where he defeated Oov in the final. 2nd in WCG, but no top 4 placements in the major leagues(I think?).
Chojja has won 1 MSL in addition to 1 2nd place in MSL and a bunch of top 4 placements in both leagues.
That being said it does feel like Chojja is way underrated now though. He has afterall usually been in atleast one of the major leagues, and there was a point in 2006 where he seemed unbeatable ZvZ(which gets less attention than being dominant in ZvT).
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United States20667 Posts
On May 08 2007 07:16 SuperJongMan wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2007 22:33 Last Romantic wrote:On May 07 2007 18:58 SuperJongMan wrote:
No. July was MBC and Savior is CJ.
Chojja and Yellow do not cut it atm. KTF has no ace level Zerg, or I guess Chojja is their ace Zerg...
And July fits well with KTF's Zergs. /twitch All Jinho does is stay greasy and play poker, lose money, and lose at Starcraft. He can't even make survivor or ODT very well nonetheless a real Starleague. He doesn't even win in PL and KTF really keeps him around because... well... They keep him around for people like you. His fans. However, watching CHRH defeat Bisu was ... LOL, maybe Jinho can pull off a crazy game, but he should really join Ace too - -;; Get his ass done with the army and become a real progamer instead of former pro with good looks. Grr had the sense to pull out before ruining his image, Yellow, when he retires is gonna be like HOT's retirement but with more fangirls T.T's. Chojja is KTF's best Zerg and last year was pretty good, although his impact was shit compared to how much Savior changed Z as a race and Chojja's style being quite different from Savior's... And lol -_-;; tfeign.... Chojja is good, but July is better. My opinion, argue all you want, /ignore. I'll just say MBC wouldn't have won PL without July. And where was Chojja last OSL?
/twitch.
greasy?
/twitches some more
T-T
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
I don't care what their records were, Chojja's shit dumb play on Nemesis vs some toss in proleague makes me give him the Thumbs Down.
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United States33705 Posts
yeh so I was just reading pgr21.com and trying to sort through the drama in this situation
ok, so a 'waiver' in progamer means you are essentially being kicked out of the team. July must take the offer of any team that gives him a contract within 14 days or he forfeits his qualification as a pro-gamer. This is ANY kind of contract, with first choice going to the lowest ranking team.
No team in their right mind is going to offer him more than what MBC is offering now, and it is likely that they will try to offer only just enough to stop july from quitting/joining the army in disgust.
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United States20667 Posts
On May 08 2007 16:29 Waxangel wrote:
yeh so I was just reading pgr21.com and trying to sort through the drama in this situation
ok, so a 'waiver' in progamer means you are essentially being kicked out of the team. July must take the offer of any team that gives him a contract within 14 days or he forfeits his qualification as a pro-gamer. This is ANY kind of contract, with first choice going to the lowest ranking team.
No team in their right mind is going to offer him more than what MBC is offering now, and it is likely that they will try to offer only just enough to stop july from quitting/joining the army in disgust.
what the hell
That seems like such a bad deal for July TT
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Glad Pusan is still staying with MBC.
MBC can't seem to win without him. 
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On May 08 2007 16:29 Waxangel wrote:
yeh so I was just reading pgr21.com and trying to sort through the drama in this situation
ok, so a 'waiver' in progamer means you are essentially being kicked out of the team. July must take the offer of any team that gives him a contract within 14 days or he forfeits his qualification as a pro-gamer. This is ANY kind of contract, with first choice going to the lowest ranking team.
No team in their right mind is going to offer him more than what MBC is offering now, and it is likely that they will try to offer only just enough to stop july from quitting/joining the army in disgust.
Really? That seems totally backwards! Why would anyone want to leave their team over money if they are virtually guaranteed to wind up on a worse team with less pay? I simply can't believe that's the case! It's totally crooked! By that logic, teams can just cut the players' pay whenever they damn well please to whatever they want, and eStro can just threaten to take them for room and board. Fuck that. July is worth a lot of money.
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On May 07 2007 21:54 tfeign wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2007 18:58 SuperJongMan wrote:
No. July was MBC and Savior is CJ.
Chojja and Yellow do not cut it atm. KTF has no ace level Zerg, or I guess Chojja is their ace Zerg...
And July fits well with KTF's Zergs. In 2006 Chojja won an MSL, top 2 OSL; racked up one of the most dominant winning streaks; was the only player to have beaten Savior in a series, and not just once but twice; rated as the best zerg by Kespa for months; rated as best overall player by Kespa for months; ranked top 2/3 for most of the remainder. In 2006 July accomplished nothing. In 2007 July accomplished nothing. July has done nothing notable since 2005. What exactly makes Chojja "not cut it", while July does?
you mean besides chojja losing to pretty much every single bad player hes come across recently?
You mean July's clutch proleague performances?
Yeah, sorry, but chojja has really sucked.
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On May 08 2007 17:25 Wasabi wrote:
July got too greedy, and it backstabbed him. He shouldn't ask for more especially if he's not performing like 6-figure salary progamers currently (which he used to have) such as Midas/Nada/and now oov.
But take a look on MBC's side: they got caught on KeSPA's bait with the Proleague deal so they're losing even more money than when they gave July a good salary.
He was already taking a pay cut. Regardless of why this particular situation happened, a policy where players who get kicked off a team can basically be taken by the worst team for no money is totally ridiculous. I mean, if Savior and the coach from CJ had a falling out, could they just kick him off of the team and have him be picked up by some bad team for no money? That seems insanely unfair to me.
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EPT
