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On December 05 2017 16:10 De4ngus wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2017 15:59 CxWiLL wrote:
In Larva's first statement on his stream, he mentioned that 'talked to the organizer before', 'everyone take photos afterwards and they are cool'. ZOTAC said ' Larva did not notify of the organizers of his actions, and his statement of "having the organizer's permission" is not TRUE.'
and in more recent statement, he mentioned he 'went to see Legend after the game at night to apologize in person but he refused to see me and wrote that post on his SNS afterwards', so obviously Legend is not cool about it from the very beginning.
I don't want to call out Larva as a liar on his part but there is some contradictions between his statements.
I am actually surprise by the bias of the western community on this incident. Just imagine if Draco was the one on the GF.It is certainly not ‘larva did noting wrong’.
BMs are acceptable in game, offrace is fine, drone-dancing is fine and nuke is fine. But in person, is just too much. Hilarious you guys keep saying imagine if it was Draco. There would never have been drama if it was Draco. ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/nRjsfNT.png) It's a showmatch, not OSL. Every other player was there to have fun.
Yes, there would never be a drama if it was Draco, cause Larva won't even do this shit because he respect Draco and the scene behind him
Have fun? The problem is humiliation is not funny at all. I mean even it is your dearest friend, you cannot do things like 'beat him with feet on a public match' and getaway with 'just for fun'.
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I am fed up with the "showmatch" bullshit. To me, every match is a showmatch, including every OSL, MSL match. In this shows, as a progamer, you show your skills to win the game, to show you respect your opponent, to show the audience this is such an exciting and fun game, NOT how you can humiliate your opponent whenever you have the chance.
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United States10488 Posts
On December 05 2017 16:14 juvenal wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2017 15:52 FlaShFTW wrote:On December 05 2017 13:50 juvenal wrote:On December 05 2017 11:36 FlaShFTW wrote:On December 05 2017 11:33 iamho wrote:On December 05 2017 11:06 FlaShFTW wrote:On December 05 2017 10:58 Endymion wrote:On December 05 2017 10:53 FlaShFTW wrote:On December 05 2017 10:40 Endymion wrote:On December 05 2017 10:25 404AlphaSquad wrote:
I don't really see the big deal. Behaving in condescending ways and shaming your opponents for their lack of skill, whether its in-game or in person, is part of BW culture. A simple YT search, even from Kespa players would confirm this. this is not my experience in bw at all, both on foreign and korean servers. people are for the most part very chill and polite, even if they're not all socialable. the pros x1000 were that.. they play up their personalities for their streams nowadays though, but i still think they're good/manner deep down On December 05 2017 10:38 FlaShFTW wrote:
[quote]
I'm imagining it... and I still don't care. so if you got a chance to play vs JD or flash, and you practiced like 2 or 3 months leading up to it... and they played with their feet against you... you wouldn't be annoyed/disappointed/jaded? it's denying you the decency of having an actual game of starcraft if someone plays with their feet.. it's ludicrously rude, he should have just left the game if he was so disinclined to play. 1) Your hypothetical is so extreme it's not really worth it to discuss but I'll entertain it. 2) No, I really wouldn't care. If they can beat me with their feet AFTER they had already held off an all-in and I've already lost, why should I care. If anything, I would have been more impressed if Larva held off the initial all-in with his feet the entire time, rather than the end when he had already won the game. I'm looking for good Starcraft games. If someone wins a game with their feet to make the game closer, I'm all for it. In fact, it would be a good challenge because that's how much time they've put into the game where they're so superior they can do that. It's like CSGO pros in low ELO games using only deagle or zeus's. Or League of Legends where they run all TP/Smite to troll. it's so extreme that it's literally the situation that happened to the cn player. but whatever, if that's what you want from starcraft then by all means, let's keep up the bm and the trolling etc etc etc. instead of having a showmatch why not just put larva on iccup and let him bm peruvians, sounds like it would be a great time Dude. It's a SHOWMATCH. you act like someone's life was on the line. When did old school BW players become so soft? We've had to deal with iccup bm from people for years and pros bming was great, going for silly strats and manner hatching people. If that happened to you, you can choose to be upset, that's your prerogative. I don't care. They've practiced so hard to reach that level of skill and they should be allowed to do that. It's when M2K pulls out pichu against nonamers because hes just that good with his characters in smash. Being skilled at something doesn't give you the right to humiliate people of lesser skill. I was a D1 basketball player in college but I don't join pick-up games at the gym and try to embarass the middle aged guys playing there. When you make a new account on ladder and have to play new players, do you shit talk them and tell them they're trash? A little bit of showboating is alright when you're with close friends, or your opponent is someone of roughly equal skill as you. Against someone you don't personally know and is clearly below your level, it just makes you look like a jackass. Even in pro traditional sports, the top veteran athletes trash talk each other but they don't trash talk the rookies and bottom players - let alone a semi-retired amateur from a foreign country. tell that to Mew2King who trashes everyone with Pichu in qualifiers for Smash tournaments. "hey this retarded behavior is okay, since here you can see another dude with the same retarded behavior" nice logic man. retarded only to you and others like you. not retarded to people like me or the entire smash community. your prerogative. You don't get to decide what is "retarded". you don't get to decide what an entire community thinks. Besides, who gets to decide what's what? Hold on, I have the answer: the social norm. It's not within such norm to behave like Larva did, it is normal "only to you and others like you".
you literally lack any self awareness. Look at your words then refer them back to yourself.
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On December 05 2017 16:24 juvenal wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2017 16:19 De4ngus wrote:On December 05 2017 16:14 juvenal wrote:On December 05 2017 15:52 FlaShFTW wrote:On December 05 2017 13:50 juvenal wrote:On December 05 2017 11:36 FlaShFTW wrote:On December 05 2017 11:33 iamho wrote:On December 05 2017 11:06 FlaShFTW wrote:On December 05 2017 10:58 Endymion wrote:On December 05 2017 10:53 FlaShFTW wrote:
[quote]
1) Your hypothetical is so extreme it's not really worth it to discuss but I'll entertain it.
2) No, I really wouldn't care. If they can beat me with their feet AFTER they had already held off an all-in and I've already lost, why should I care. If anything, I would have been more impressed if Larva held off the initial all-in with his feet the entire time, rather than the end when he had already won the game.
I'm looking for good Starcraft games. If someone wins a game with their feet to make the game closer, I'm all for it. In fact, it would be a good challenge because that's how much time they've put into the game where they're so superior they can do that. It's like CSGO pros in low ELO games using only deagle or zeus's. Or League of Legends where they run all TP/Smite to troll. it's so extreme that it's literally the situation that happened to the cn player. but whatever, if that's what you want from starcraft then by all means, let's keep up the bm and the trolling etc etc etc. instead of having a showmatch why not just put larva on iccup and let him bm peruvians, sounds like it would be a great time Dude. It's a SHOWMATCH. you act like someone's life was on the line. When did old school BW players become so soft? We've had to deal with iccup bm from people for years and pros bming was great, going for silly strats and manner hatching people. If that happened to you, you can choose to be upset, that's your prerogative. I don't care. They've practiced so hard to reach that level of skill and they should be allowed to do that. It's when M2K pulls out pichu against nonamers because hes just that good with his characters in smash. Being skilled at something doesn't give you the right to humiliate people of lesser skill. I was a D1 basketball player in college but I don't join pick-up games at the gym and try to embarass the middle aged guys playing there. When you make a new account on ladder and have to play new players, do you shit talk them and tell them they're trash? A little bit of showboating is alright when you're with close friends, or your opponent is someone of roughly equal skill as you. Against someone you don't personally know and is clearly below your level, it just makes you look like a jackass. Even in pro traditional sports, the top veteran athletes trash talk each other but they don't trash talk the rookies and bottom players - let alone a semi-retired amateur from a foreign country. tell that to Mew2King who trashes everyone with Pichu in qualifiers for Smash tournaments. "hey this retarded behavior is okay, since here you can see another dude with the same retarded behavior" nice logic man. retarded only to you and others like you. not retarded to people like me or the entire smash community. your prerogative. You don't get to decide what is "retarded". you don't get to decide what an entire community thinks. Besides, who gets to decide what's what? Hold on, I have the answer: the social norm. It's not within such norm to behave like Larva did, it is normal "only to you and others like you". You just agreed with him and then contradicted your own first sentence. no I didn't agree with him. I replied with his own words so he had a chance to see how meaningless they are. Then explained why they are meaningless and what defines retarded behavior.
You said he doesn't get to decide what others think(literally his point), which you then proceeded to do, LOL.
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On December 05 2017 16:21 thinkinger wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2017 15:54 AManHasNoName wrote:On December 05 2017 15:51 BlackJack wrote:
In chess when an exhibition is played with 1 grandmaster and a bunch of inferior players it's almost to be expected that the grandmaster will either play blindfolded, play multiple games at once, take one of his own pieces off the board, etc. If a grandmaster did that to another grandmaster in a serious match then it would definitely be viewed as disrespectful. I think Legend needs to accept that he fits into the first category, not the second. He's not on Larva's level.
I think before you take personal offense to someone's actions you should ask yourself 2 questions. First - did they do it maliciously? I would say No, Larva was just trying to be entertaining, have fun, or be funny. Second - was it directed at you? I would say Larva would have done these antics regardless of who he was playing in the finals, so it wasn't an attempt to personally disrespect a particular player, it was just Larva trying to have fun. Legend can still choose to be offended, and that's his right.
I do think it's funny that in most sports you can literally assault someone and only get suspended for 1-2 games but in Starcraft if you play with your feet you get banned for life.
Well said and a nice example as well. I'm glad you brought up the intention side of morality, cause I think that absolutely applies here. I don't know how stupid one has to be to think that is a good example. It is totally a different thing. The grand master and the players agreed to have the grandmaster play blindfolded, or play multiple games at once, that makes it a fair/fun competition. Did Larva play with his foot from beginning? No. He only did that when he is obvious in an advantageous position. Almost every game will end up in a position that you can simply "A" all your army to destroy everything, if the other player does not quit before that. Even I can use my foot to do it in that situation. Does it make me a better player than the opponent? No, I might be just lucky and might have lost 10 games in a row. Then what's the point of using your foot when you obviously CANNOT win if you do it from the beginning, besides humiliating your opponent?
If it doesn't make a difference, and there's no point, then how is it humiliating him?
Did I miss something, and did he simultaneously shit talk and say how great he was for being able to win with his foot? Do you think the viewers think any less of Legion because Larva used his foot after the game was effectively won?
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Wow, thats an overeaction by Zotac if i've ever seen one.
I can understand their decision from a "sc:r most be a legitimate competitive sport" view.
But its a shame, that argueably the biggest entertainer at the event, is to be blacklistet. He won 3-0 anyway.
Im not aware if you were able to bet on the game on various betting sites, but since it was still a 3-0 victory i simply cant see why discipline should be handed out from Zotac.. Hopefully this will change once the news-relevancy dies down.
#FreeLarvae
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On December 05 2017 16:30 Myrddraal wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2017 16:21 thinkinger wrote:On December 05 2017 15:54 AManHasNoName wrote:On December 05 2017 15:51 BlackJack wrote:
In chess when an exhibition is played with 1 grandmaster and a bunch of inferior players it's almost to be expected that the grandmaster will either play blindfolded, play multiple games at once, take one of his own pieces off the board, etc. If a grandmaster did that to another grandmaster in a serious match then it would definitely be viewed as disrespectful. I think Legend needs to accept that he fits into the first category, not the second. He's not on Larva's level.
I think before you take personal offense to someone's actions you should ask yourself 2 questions. First - did they do it maliciously? I would say No, Larva was just trying to be entertaining, have fun, or be funny. Second - was it directed at you? I would say Larva would have done these antics regardless of who he was playing in the finals, so it wasn't an attempt to personally disrespect a particular player, it was just Larva trying to have fun. Legend can still choose to be offended, and that's his right.
I do think it's funny that in most sports you can literally assault someone and only get suspended for 1-2 games but in Starcraft if you play with your feet you get banned for life.
Well said and a nice example as well. I'm glad you brought up the intention side of morality, cause I think that absolutely applies here. I don't know how stupid one has to be to think that is a good example. It is totally a different thing. The grand master and the players agreed to have the grandmaster play blindfolded, or play multiple games at once, that makes it a fair/fun competition. Did Larva play with his foot from beginning? No. He only did that when he is obvious in an advantageous position. Almost every game will end up in a position that you can simply "A" all your army to destroy everything, if the other player does not quit before that. Even I can use my foot to do it in that situation. Does it make me a better player than the opponent? No, I might be just lucky and might have lost 10 games in a row. Then what's the point of using your foot when you obviously CANNOT win if you do it from the beginning, besides humiliating your opponent? If it doesn't make a difference, and there's no point, then how is it humiliating him? Did I miss something, and did he simultaneously shit talk and say how great he was for being able to win with his foot? Do you think the viewers think any less of Legion because Larva used his foot after the game was effectively won?
So in the end it was not humiliating?
This is a community where laughing in the in-game chat or offensive gg are bound to offend someone while putting a foot on keyboard on broadcast while being ahead is a good-spirited comedy catering to American viewers and drawing potential sponsors
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On December 05 2017 16:34 Chr15t wrote:
Wow, thats an overeaction by Zotac if i've ever seen one.
I can understand their decision from a "sc:r most be a legitimate competitive sport" view.
But its a shame, that argueably the biggest entertainer at the event, is to be blacklistet. He won 3-0 anyway.
Im not aware if you were able to bet on the game on various betting sites, but since it was still a 3-0 victory i simply cant see why discipline should be handed out from Zotac.. Hopefully this will change once the news-relevancy dies down.
#FreeLarvae
Yeah, right now it seems like it's mostly a bunch of Chinese pride fueling the outrage. And Zotac China had to do damage control quickly. Zotac NA/KR are working with Larva to resolve the issue (according to him on his recap stream).
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On December 05 2017 16:28 FlaShFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2017 16:14 juvenal wrote:On December 05 2017 15:52 FlaShFTW wrote:On December 05 2017 13:50 juvenal wrote:On December 05 2017 11:36 FlaShFTW wrote:On December 05 2017 11:33 iamho wrote:On December 05 2017 11:06 FlaShFTW wrote:On December 05 2017 10:58 Endymion wrote:On December 05 2017 10:53 FlaShFTW wrote:On December 05 2017 10:40 Endymion wrote:
[quote]
this is not my experience in bw at all, both on foreign and korean servers. people are for the most part very chill and polite, even if they're not all socialable. the pros x1000 were that.. they play up their personalities for their streams nowadays though, but i still think they're good/manner deep down
[quote]
so if you got a chance to play vs JD or flash, and you practiced like 2 or 3 months leading up to it... and they played with their feet against you... you wouldn't be annoyed/disappointed/jaded? it's denying you the decency of having an actual game of starcraft if someone plays with their feet.. it's ludicrously rude, he should have just left the game if he was so disinclined to play. 1) Your hypothetical is so extreme it's not really worth it to discuss but I'll entertain it. 2) No, I really wouldn't care. If they can beat me with their feet AFTER they had already held off an all-in and I've already lost, why should I care. If anything, I would have been more impressed if Larva held off the initial all-in with his feet the entire time, rather than the end when he had already won the game. I'm looking for good Starcraft games. If someone wins a game with their feet to make the game closer, I'm all for it. In fact, it would be a good challenge because that's how much time they've put into the game where they're so superior they can do that. It's like CSGO pros in low ELO games using only deagle or zeus's. Or League of Legends where they run all TP/Smite to troll. it's so extreme that it's literally the situation that happened to the cn player. but whatever, if that's what you want from starcraft then by all means, let's keep up the bm and the trolling etc etc etc. instead of having a showmatch why not just put larva on iccup and let him bm peruvians, sounds like it would be a great time Dude. It's a SHOWMATCH. you act like someone's life was on the line. When did old school BW players become so soft? We've had to deal with iccup bm from people for years and pros bming was great, going for silly strats and manner hatching people. If that happened to you, you can choose to be upset, that's your prerogative. I don't care. They've practiced so hard to reach that level of skill and they should be allowed to do that. It's when M2K pulls out pichu against nonamers because hes just that good with his characters in smash. Being skilled at something doesn't give you the right to humiliate people of lesser skill. I was a D1 basketball player in college but I don't join pick-up games at the gym and try to embarass the middle aged guys playing there. When you make a new account on ladder and have to play new players, do you shit talk them and tell them they're trash? A little bit of showboating is alright when you're with close friends, or your opponent is someone of roughly equal skill as you. Against someone you don't personally know and is clearly below your level, it just makes you look like a jackass. Even in pro traditional sports, the top veteran athletes trash talk each other but they don't trash talk the rookies and bottom players - let alone a semi-retired amateur from a foreign country. tell that to Mew2King who trashes everyone with Pichu in qualifiers for Smash tournaments. "hey this retarded behavior is okay, since here you can see another dude with the same retarded behavior" nice logic man. retarded only to you and others like you. not retarded to people like me or the entire smash community. your prerogative. You don't get to decide what is "retarded". you don't get to decide what an entire community thinks. Besides, who gets to decide what's what? Hold on, I have the answer: the social norm. It's not within such norm to behave like Larva did, it is normal "only to you and others like you". you literally lack any self awareness. Look at your words then refer them back to yourself.
On December 05 2017 16:30 De4ngus wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2017 16:24 juvenal wrote:On December 05 2017 16:19 De4ngus wrote:On December 05 2017 16:14 juvenal wrote:On December 05 2017 15:52 FlaShFTW wrote:On December 05 2017 13:50 juvenal wrote:On December 05 2017 11:36 FlaShFTW wrote:On December 05 2017 11:33 iamho wrote:On December 05 2017 11:06 FlaShFTW wrote:On December 05 2017 10:58 Endymion wrote:
[quote]
it's so extreme that it's literally the situation that happened to the cn player. but whatever, if that's what you want from starcraft then by all means, let's keep up the bm and the trolling etc etc etc. instead of having a showmatch why not just put larva on iccup and let him bm peruvians, sounds like it would be a great time Dude. It's a SHOWMATCH. you act like someone's life was on the line. When did old school BW players become so soft? We've had to deal with iccup bm from people for years and pros bming was great, going for silly strats and manner hatching people. If that happened to you, you can choose to be upset, that's your prerogative. I don't care. They've practiced so hard to reach that level of skill and they should be allowed to do that. It's when M2K pulls out pichu against nonamers because hes just that good with his characters in smash. Being skilled at something doesn't give you the right to humiliate people of lesser skill. I was a D1 basketball player in college but I don't join pick-up games at the gym and try to embarass the middle aged guys playing there. When you make a new account on ladder and have to play new players, do you shit talk them and tell them they're trash? A little bit of showboating is alright when you're with close friends, or your opponent is someone of roughly equal skill as you. Against someone you don't personally know and is clearly below your level, it just makes you look like a jackass. Even in pro traditional sports, the top veteran athletes trash talk each other but they don't trash talk the rookies and bottom players - let alone a semi-retired amateur from a foreign country. tell that to Mew2King who trashes everyone with Pichu in qualifiers for Smash tournaments. "hey this retarded behavior is okay, since here you can see another dude with the same retarded behavior" nice logic man. retarded only to you and others like you. not retarded to people like me or the entire smash community. your prerogative. You don't get to decide what is "retarded". you don't get to decide what an entire community thinks. Besides, who gets to decide what's what? Hold on, I have the answer: the social norm. It's not within such norm to behave like Larva did, it is normal "only to you and others like you". You just agreed with him and then contradicted your own first sentence. no I didn't agree with him. I replied with his own words so he had a chance to see how meaningless they are. Then explained why they are meaningless and what defines retarded behavior. You said he doesn't get to decide what others think(literally his point), which you then proceeded to do, LOL.
ever heard of satire? Or irony? He says "you don't get to decide blabla" then next sentence he says "the entire community blabla". So he gets to decide what an entire community approves? That's exactly what I mocked replying to him in his own words.
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On December 05 2017 16:30 Myrddraal wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2017 16:21 thinkinger wrote:On December 05 2017 15:54 AManHasNoName wrote:On December 05 2017 15:51 BlackJack wrote:
In chess when an exhibition is played with 1 grandmaster and a bunch of inferior players it's almost to be expected that the grandmaster will either play blindfolded, play multiple games at once, take one of his own pieces off the board, etc. If a grandmaster did that to another grandmaster in a serious match then it would definitely be viewed as disrespectful. I think Legend needs to accept that he fits into the first category, not the second. He's not on Larva's level.
I think before you take personal offense to someone's actions you should ask yourself 2 questions. First - did they do it maliciously? I would say No, Larva was just trying to be entertaining, have fun, or be funny. Second - was it directed at you? I would say Larva would have done these antics regardless of who he was playing in the finals, so it wasn't an attempt to personally disrespect a particular player, it was just Larva trying to have fun. Legend can still choose to be offended, and that's his right.
I do think it's funny that in most sports you can literally assault someone and only get suspended for 1-2 games but in Starcraft if you play with your feet you get banned for life.
Well said and a nice example as well. I'm glad you brought up the intention side of morality, cause I think that absolutely applies here. I don't know how stupid one has to be to think that is a good example. It is totally a different thing. The grand master and the players agreed to have the grandmaster play blindfolded, or play multiple games at once, that makes it a fair/fun competition. Did Larva play with his foot from beginning? No. He only did that when he is obvious in an advantageous position. Almost every game will end up in a position that you can simply "A" all your army to destroy everything, if the other player does not quit before that. Even I can use my foot to do it in that situation. Does it make me a better player than the opponent? No, I might be just lucky and might have lost 10 games in a row. Then what's the point of using your foot when you obviously CANNOT win if you do it from the beginning, besides humiliating your opponent? If it doesn't make a difference, and there's no point, then how is it humiliating him? Did I miss something, and did he simultaneously shit talk and say how great he was for being able to win with his foot? Do you think the viewers think any less of Legion because Larva used his foot after the game was effectively won?
Since many people think it is inappropriate, and LX felt insulted, if you still pretend it is totally OK to EVERYONE, then there is nothing that needs to argue about. Did any grandmaster masturbate or dance naked when he plays his fans, despite that he could do that and win and it is more "entertaining"? Just to what extent you would think it is appropriate and entertaining? eat shit? fuck his uncle? Sure, that wouldn't directly affect the opponent, and I am sure someone would find it "entertaining", not me, and not many others.
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On December 05 2017 16:24 juvenal wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2017 16:19 De4ngus wrote:On December 05 2017 16:14 juvenal wrote:On December 05 2017 15:52 FlaShFTW wrote:On December 05 2017 13:50 juvenal wrote:On December 05 2017 11:36 FlaShFTW wrote:On December 05 2017 11:33 iamho wrote:On December 05 2017 11:06 FlaShFTW wrote:On December 05 2017 10:58 Endymion wrote:On December 05 2017 10:53 FlaShFTW wrote:
[quote]
1) Your hypothetical is so extreme it's not really worth it to discuss but I'll entertain it.
2) No, I really wouldn't care. If they can beat me with their feet AFTER they had already held off an all-in and I've already lost, why should I care. If anything, I would have been more impressed if Larva held off the initial all-in with his feet the entire time, rather than the end when he had already won the game.
I'm looking for good Starcraft games. If someone wins a game with their feet to make the game closer, I'm all for it. In fact, it would be a good challenge because that's how much time they've put into the game where they're so superior they can do that. It's like CSGO pros in low ELO games using only deagle or zeus's. Or League of Legends where they run all TP/Smite to troll. it's so extreme that it's literally the situation that happened to the cn player. but whatever, if that's what you want from starcraft then by all means, let's keep up the bm and the trolling etc etc etc. instead of having a showmatch why not just put larva on iccup and let him bm peruvians, sounds like it would be a great time Dude. It's a SHOWMATCH. you act like someone's life was on the line. When did old school BW players become so soft? We've had to deal with iccup bm from people for years and pros bming was great, going for silly strats and manner hatching people. If that happened to you, you can choose to be upset, that's your prerogative. I don't care. They've practiced so hard to reach that level of skill and they should be allowed to do that. It's when M2K pulls out pichu against nonamers because hes just that good with his characters in smash. Being skilled at something doesn't give you the right to humiliate people of lesser skill. I was a D1 basketball player in college but I don't join pick-up games at the gym and try to embarass the middle aged guys playing there. When you make a new account on ladder and have to play new players, do you shit talk them and tell them they're trash? A little bit of showboating is alright when you're with close friends, or your opponent is someone of roughly equal skill as you. Against someone you don't personally know and is clearly below your level, it just makes you look like a jackass. Even in pro traditional sports, the top veteran athletes trash talk each other but they don't trash talk the rookies and bottom players - let alone a semi-retired amateur from a foreign country. tell that to Mew2King who trashes everyone with Pichu in qualifiers for Smash tournaments. "hey this retarded behavior is okay, since here you can see another dude with the same retarded behavior" nice logic man. retarded only to you and others like you. not retarded to people like me or the entire smash community. your prerogative. You don't get to decide what is "retarded". you don't get to decide what an entire community thinks. Besides, who gets to decide what's what? Hold on, I have the answer: the social norm. It's not within such norm to behave like Larva did, it is normal "only to you and others like you". You just agreed with him and then contradicted your own first sentence. no I didn't agree with him. I replied with his own words so he had a chance to see how meaningless they are. Then explained why they are meaningless and what defines retarded behavior.
You are using "social norm" and then defining what that is as if it's objective. Don't you understand how subjective that is? Sorry that your player got humiliated.
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On December 05 2017 16:39 thinkinger wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2017 16:30 Myrddraal wrote:On December 05 2017 16:21 thinkinger wrote:On December 05 2017 15:54 AManHasNoName wrote:On December 05 2017 15:51 BlackJack wrote:
In chess when an exhibition is played with 1 grandmaster and a bunch of inferior players it's almost to be expected that the grandmaster will either play blindfolded, play multiple games at once, take one of his own pieces off the board, etc. If a grandmaster did that to another grandmaster in a serious match then it would definitely be viewed as disrespectful. I think Legend needs to accept that he fits into the first category, not the second. He's not on Larva's level.
I think before you take personal offense to someone's actions you should ask yourself 2 questions. First - did they do it maliciously? I would say No, Larva was just trying to be entertaining, have fun, or be funny. Second - was it directed at you? I would say Larva would have done these antics regardless of who he was playing in the finals, so it wasn't an attempt to personally disrespect a particular player, it was just Larva trying to have fun. Legend can still choose to be offended, and that's his right.
I do think it's funny that in most sports you can literally assault someone and only get suspended for 1-2 games but in Starcraft if you play with your feet you get banned for life.
Well said and a nice example as well. I'm glad you brought up the intention side of morality, cause I think that absolutely applies here. I don't know how stupid one has to be to think that is a good example. It is totally a different thing. The grand master and the players agreed to have the grandmaster play blindfolded, or play multiple games at once, that makes it a fair/fun competition. Did Larva play with his foot from beginning? No. He only did that when he is obvious in an advantageous position. Almost every game will end up in a position that you can simply "A" all your army to destroy everything, if the other player does not quit before that. Even I can use my foot to do it in that situation. Does it make me a better player than the opponent? No, I might be just lucky and might have lost 10 games in a row. Then what's the point of using your foot when you obviously CANNOT win if you do it from the beginning, besides humiliating your opponent? If it doesn't make a difference, and there's no point, then how is it humiliating him? Did I miss something, and did he simultaneously shit talk and say how great he was for being able to win with his foot? Do you think the viewers think any less of Legion because Larva used his foot after the game was effectively won? Since many people think it is inappropriate, and LX felt insulted, if you still pretend it is totally OK to EVERYONE, then there is nothing that needs to argue about. Did any grandmaster masturbate or dance naked when he plays his fans, despite that he could do that and win and it is more "entertaining"? Just to what extent you would think it is appropriate and entertaining? eat shit? fuck his uncle? I am sure someone would find it "entertaining", not me, and not many others.
I'm pretty sure you're going a bit too far but it still feels right by Myrddraal's point of view, I mean would it make a difference if he spat on him across the desk? He won 3:0 anyway
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On December 05 2017 16:39 thinkinger wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2017 16:30 Myrddraal wrote:On December 05 2017 16:21 thinkinger wrote:On December 05 2017 15:54 AManHasNoName wrote:On December 05 2017 15:51 BlackJack wrote:
In chess when an exhibition is played with 1 grandmaster and a bunch of inferior players it's almost to be expected that the grandmaster will either play blindfolded, play multiple games at once, take one of his own pieces off the board, etc. If a grandmaster did that to another grandmaster in a serious match then it would definitely be viewed as disrespectful. I think Legend needs to accept that he fits into the first category, not the second. He's not on Larva's level.
I think before you take personal offense to someone's actions you should ask yourself 2 questions. First - did they do it maliciously? I would say No, Larva was just trying to be entertaining, have fun, or be funny. Second - was it directed at you? I would say Larva would have done these antics regardless of who he was playing in the finals, so it wasn't an attempt to personally disrespect a particular player, it was just Larva trying to have fun. Legend can still choose to be offended, and that's his right.
I do think it's funny that in most sports you can literally assault someone and only get suspended for 1-2 games but in Starcraft if you play with your feet you get banned for life.
Well said and a nice example as well. I'm glad you brought up the intention side of morality, cause I think that absolutely applies here. I don't know how stupid one has to be to think that is a good example. It is totally a different thing. The grand master and the players agreed to have the grandmaster play blindfolded, or play multiple games at once, that makes it a fair/fun competition. Did Larva play with his foot from beginning? No. He only did that when he is obvious in an advantageous position. Almost every game will end up in a position that you can simply "A" all your army to destroy everything, if the other player does not quit before that. Even I can use my foot to do it in that situation. Does it make me a better player than the opponent? No, I might be just lucky and might have lost 10 games in a row. Then what's the point of using your foot when you obviously CANNOT win if you do it from the beginning, besides humiliating your opponent? If it doesn't make a difference, and there's no point, then how is it humiliating him? Did I miss something, and did he simultaneously shit talk and say how great he was for being able to win with his foot? Do you think the viewers think any less of Legion because Larva used his foot after the game was effectively won? Since many people think it is inappropriate, and LX felt insulted, if you still pretend it is totally OK to EVERYONE, then there is nothing that needs to argue about. Did any grandmaster masturbate or dance naked when he plays his fans, despite that he could do that and win and it is more "entertaining"? Just to what extent you would think it is appropriate and entertaining? eat shit? fuck his uncle? I am sure someone would find it "entertaining", not me, and not many others.
Seems like maybe you should take some time to actually think things through before posting them. Your logic is much more flawed than the logic you are criticizing.
You might be a victim of confirmation bias or https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/02/27/why-facts-dont-change-our-minds
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On December 05 2017 16:42 aQuaSC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2017 16:39 thinkinger wrote:On December 05 2017 16:30 Myrddraal wrote:On December 05 2017 16:21 thinkinger wrote:On December 05 2017 15:54 AManHasNoName wrote:On December 05 2017 15:51 BlackJack wrote:
In chess when an exhibition is played with 1 grandmaster and a bunch of inferior players it's almost to be expected that the grandmaster will either play blindfolded, play multiple games at once, take one of his own pieces off the board, etc. If a grandmaster did that to another grandmaster in a serious match then it would definitely be viewed as disrespectful. I think Legend needs to accept that he fits into the first category, not the second. He's not on Larva's level.
I think before you take personal offense to someone's actions you should ask yourself 2 questions. First - did they do it maliciously? I would say No, Larva was just trying to be entertaining, have fun, or be funny. Second - was it directed at you? I would say Larva would have done these antics regardless of who he was playing in the finals, so it wasn't an attempt to personally disrespect a particular player, it was just Larva trying to have fun. Legend can still choose to be offended, and that's his right.
I do think it's funny that in most sports you can literally assault someone and only get suspended for 1-2 games but in Starcraft if you play with your feet you get banned for life.
Well said and a nice example as well. I'm glad you brought up the intention side of morality, cause I think that absolutely applies here. I don't know how stupid one has to be to think that is a good example. It is totally a different thing. The grand master and the players agreed to have the grandmaster play blindfolded, or play multiple games at once, that makes it a fair/fun competition. Did Larva play with his foot from beginning? No. He only did that when he is obvious in an advantageous position. Almost every game will end up in a position that you can simply "A" all your army to destroy everything, if the other player does not quit before that. Even I can use my foot to do it in that situation. Does it make me a better player than the opponent? No, I might be just lucky and might have lost 10 games in a row. Then what's the point of using your foot when you obviously CANNOT win if you do it from the beginning, besides humiliating your opponent? If it doesn't make a difference, and there's no point, then how is it humiliating him? Did I miss something, and did he simultaneously shit talk and say how great he was for being able to win with his foot? Do you think the viewers think any less of Legion because Larva used his foot after the game was effectively won? Since many people think it is inappropriate, and LX felt insulted, if you still pretend it is totally OK to EVERYONE, then there is nothing that needs to argue about. Did any grandmaster masturbate or dance naked when he plays his fans, despite that he could do that and win and it is more "entertaining"? Just to what extent you would think it is appropriate and entertaining? eat shit? fuck his uncle? I am sure someone would find it "entertaining", not me, and not many others. I'm pretty sure you're going a bit too far, but it still feels right by Myrddraal's point of view, I mean would it make a difference if he spat on him across the desk? He won 3:0 anyway
I'm pretty sure Larva was going a bit too far. But who draws the line? Larva? You? No, the line draws where people are divided to two groups, neither of which is too small to neglect. Any argument that it is TOTALLY fine is just lying to yourself.
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On December 05 2017 16:45 AManHasNoName wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2017 16:39 thinkinger wrote:On December 05 2017 16:30 Myrddraal wrote:On December 05 2017 16:21 thinkinger wrote:On December 05 2017 15:54 AManHasNoName wrote:On December 05 2017 15:51 BlackJack wrote:
In chess when an exhibition is played with 1 grandmaster and a bunch of inferior players it's almost to be expected that the grandmaster will either play blindfolded, play multiple games at once, take one of his own pieces off the board, etc. If a grandmaster did that to another grandmaster in a serious match then it would definitely be viewed as disrespectful. I think Legend needs to accept that he fits into the first category, not the second. He's not on Larva's level.
I think before you take personal offense to someone's actions you should ask yourself 2 questions. First - did they do it maliciously? I would say No, Larva was just trying to be entertaining, have fun, or be funny. Second - was it directed at you? I would say Larva would have done these antics regardless of who he was playing in the finals, so it wasn't an attempt to personally disrespect a particular player, it was just Larva trying to have fun. Legend can still choose to be offended, and that's his right.
I do think it's funny that in most sports you can literally assault someone and only get suspended for 1-2 games but in Starcraft if you play with your feet you get banned for life.
Well said and a nice example as well. I'm glad you brought up the intention side of morality, cause I think that absolutely applies here. I don't know how stupid one has to be to think that is a good example. It is totally a different thing. The grand master and the players agreed to have the grandmaster play blindfolded, or play multiple games at once, that makes it a fair/fun competition. Did Larva play with his foot from beginning? No. He only did that when he is obvious in an advantageous position. Almost every game will end up in a position that you can simply "A" all your army to destroy everything, if the other player does not quit before that. Even I can use my foot to do it in that situation. Does it make me a better player than the opponent? No, I might be just lucky and might have lost 10 games in a row. Then what's the point of using your foot when you obviously CANNOT win if you do it from the beginning, besides humiliating your opponent? If it doesn't make a difference, and there's no point, then how is it humiliating him? Did I miss something, and did he simultaneously shit talk and say how great he was for being able to win with his foot? Do you think the viewers think any less of Legion because Larva used his foot after the game was effectively won? Since many people think it is inappropriate, and LX felt insulted, if you still pretend it is totally OK to EVERYONE, then there is nothing that needs to argue about. Did any grandmaster masturbate or dance naked when he plays his fans, despite that he could do that and win and it is more "entertaining"? Just to what extent you would think it is appropriate and entertaining? eat shit? fuck his uncle? I am sure someone would find it "entertaining", not me, and not many others. Seems like maybe you should take some time to actually think things through before posting them. Your logic is much more flawed than the logic you are criticizing. You might be a victim of confirmation bias or https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/02/27/why-facts-dont-change-our-minds
You have to point out what logic of mine is flawed to make it just a little bit convincing.
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On December 05 2017 16:20 Myrddraal wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2017 15:54 FoR_BlueS wrote:On December 05 2017 15:28 Myrddraal wrote:On December 05 2017 14:10 FoR_BlueS wrote:
Given that BW is almost a 20 year old game, the amount of players who cannot rationally evaluate the moral nature of Larva's behavour is depressing. If you think strength makes right, go read Rousseau, if you think it is unjustified for people to react angrily at an obviously inappropriate behaviour, go read Kant. This has nothing to do with "Chinese pride" or whatever excuse people come up to defend Larva's obviously inappropriate behaviour, the demand for respect is a fundamental human right and doesn't only apply to Chinese people. There are obviously more mature, responsible and respectful ways to entertain a more refined audience, but apparently that is beyond reach of Larva's capabilities. Really? I think it's far more irrational to make a big deal about it, take emotions out of it and tell me how exactly anyone was harmed by what Larva did? It was clearly a relaxed atmopshere, not some super serious competition. If you think that someone playing a video game with with their foot for a short time is some huge moral issue, go watch some comedians and grow a sense of humour. TBH I didn't think much of Larva's behaviour, what he did was within my expectations, I personally just laughed off it, but I can totally understand why many couldn't stand it. Rationally speaking, playing with your feet against a retired veteran shows nothing but your immaturity and disrespect towards your opponent, even if you didn't mean it. Watch Jet Li's movie "Fearless" and see how the Japanese Samurai behaved when he fought and won against a handicapped Li at the end of the movie, that is true respect against a weaker opponent. The problem was that LX did not expect this behaviour, he came prepared as if it was a serious match, if Larva had communicated with LX beforehand everything would be fine, but he didn't. Disrespect is disrespect, the particular circumstances or context does not invalidate the nature of the behaviour or attitude itself. If you don't think disrespect is a moral issue, I suggest you read this page: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/respect/#SomImpIss , specifically, in part 2.1 the author attempts to answer the question "What is it about persons that makes them matter morally and makes them worthy of respect?" I've seen Fearless, it was a great movie, but this was not a battle to the death between warriors, but a showmatch streamed for viewer entertainment, so forgive me for considering that to be a pretty inept comparison. Just because you say, "rationally speaking" at the start of your point, does not make your point rational, you seem to be suggesting that it is immature and disrespectful because he is a retired veteren, if it were a serious competition I would probably agree with you, but because it was a showmatch, I believe it is you that is being overly emotional and irrational. We can have differing opinions and that is fine, but I would caution against get blinded by your opinion into thinking you have some sort of moral high ground and any who disagree with you are just irrational or immature. The circumstances do matter, because there are different expectations depending on the circumstances, I expect a showmatch to be entertaining. If Legion expected a super serious match then it is understandable that he would feel disprespected, but in my opinion, that is his mistake not Larva's.
Being disrespectful in a showmatch is still being disrespectful, I don't see how that could be different, if anything it could only be worse as a worldwide audience is watching. A simple analogy would be stealing from your friend is no different from stealing from your neighbor, the president, or a criminal, regardless of who it is you stole from, you have commited an act of theft. You seem to be focused on deconstructing semantic issues of my post instead of aiming at my arguments, this is an unconvincing way to reason. Moreover, you assumed that I was being overly emotional and irrational, however beginning your argument with "I believe it is you that is ..." is once again a very unconvincing way to reason. Lastly, please let me point out the error in your final accusation, namely that I am "blinded by my opinion that I have some sort of moral high ground". The concept of a "moral high ground" is in itself an inconsistent definition as morality is mutual, it is an extension of basic human rights of personhood and the free will of the rational agent, therefore by definition no one can be "morally superior" as it is a mutually equal responsibility between any rational moral agent. One can, of course, choose not to behave in accordance with moral laws, in which case, one has violated the law of morality and thus, in a just society, must face the corresponding repercussions, but nowhere do I see how a person is inherently, or deductively "morally superior" to another.
However, I would like to express my gratitude for your civil behaviour, as to my experience such civil discussions are quite rare nowadays on the internet...
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On December 05 2017 16:46 thinkinger wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2017 16:45 AManHasNoName wrote:On December 05 2017 16:39 thinkinger wrote:On December 05 2017 16:30 Myrddraal wrote:On December 05 2017 16:21 thinkinger wrote:On December 05 2017 15:54 AManHasNoName wrote:On December 05 2017 15:51 BlackJack wrote:
In chess when an exhibition is played with 1 grandmaster and a bunch of inferior players it's almost to be expected that the grandmaster will either play blindfolded, play multiple games at once, take one of his own pieces off the board, etc. If a grandmaster did that to another grandmaster in a serious match then it would definitely be viewed as disrespectful. I think Legend needs to accept that he fits into the first category, not the second. He's not on Larva's level.
I think before you take personal offense to someone's actions you should ask yourself 2 questions. First - did they do it maliciously? I would say No, Larva was just trying to be entertaining, have fun, or be funny. Second - was it directed at you? I would say Larva would have done these antics regardless of who he was playing in the finals, so it wasn't an attempt to personally disrespect a particular player, it was just Larva trying to have fun. Legend can still choose to be offended, and that's his right.
I do think it's funny that in most sports you can literally assault someone and only get suspended for 1-2 games but in Starcraft if you play with your feet you get banned for life.
Well said and a nice example as well. I'm glad you brought up the intention side of morality, cause I think that absolutely applies here. I don't know how stupid one has to be to think that is a good example. It is totally a different thing. The grand master and the players agreed to have the grandmaster play blindfolded, or play multiple games at once, that makes it a fair/fun competition. Did Larva play with his foot from beginning? No. He only did that when he is obvious in an advantageous position. Almost every game will end up in a position that you can simply "A" all your army to destroy everything, if the other player does not quit before that. Even I can use my foot to do it in that situation. Does it make me a better player than the opponent? No, I might be just lucky and might have lost 10 games in a row. Then what's the point of using your foot when you obviously CANNOT win if you do it from the beginning, besides humiliating your opponent? If it doesn't make a difference, and there's no point, then how is it humiliating him? Did I miss something, and did he simultaneously shit talk and say how great he was for being able to win with his foot? Do you think the viewers think any less of Legion because Larva used his foot after the game was effectively won? Since many people think it is inappropriate, and LX felt insulted, if you still pretend it is totally OK to EVERYONE, then there is nothing that needs to argue about. Did any grandmaster masturbate or dance naked when he plays his fans, despite that he could do that and win and it is more "entertaining"? Just to what extent you would think it is appropriate and entertaining? eat shit? fuck his uncle? I am sure someone would find it "entertaining", not me, and not many others. Seems like maybe you should take some time to actually think things through before posting them. Your logic is much more flawed than the logic you are criticizing. You might be a victim of confirmation bias or https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/02/27/why-facts-dont-change-our-minds You have to point our what logic of mine is flawed to make it just a little bit convincing.
Essentially you are intentionally/unintentionally misunderstanding peoples points and making your own points to combat those points made up by yourself. Thus, the things you are saying have no real bearing on what the people you are arguing with are actually saying. You take things to extremes to try and make your points, but the extremes you use are not realistic and therefore don't make the point you're trying to.
You're doing something like this:
Person 1 makes claim Y.
Person 2 restates person 1’s claim (in a distorted way).
Person 2 attacks the distorted version of the claim.
Therefore, claim Y is false.
Since you are obviously just someone who made an account to defend your wounded ego and cause drama here I'm not going to spend too much time on you. But those are things to think about when posting.
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oops meant to edit not quote.
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On December 05 2017 16:51 AManHasNoName wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2017 16:46 thinkinger wrote:On December 05 2017 16:45 AManHasNoName wrote:On December 05 2017 16:39 thinkinger wrote:On December 05 2017 16:30 Myrddraal wrote:On December 05 2017 16:21 thinkinger wrote:On December 05 2017 15:54 AManHasNoName wrote:On December 05 2017 15:51 BlackJack wrote:
In chess when an exhibition is played with 1 grandmaster and a bunch of inferior players it's almost to be expected that the grandmaster will either play blindfolded, play multiple games at once, take one of his own pieces off the board, etc. If a grandmaster did that to another grandmaster in a serious match then it would definitely be viewed as disrespectful. I think Legend needs to accept that he fits into the first category, not the second. He's not on Larva's level.
I think before you take personal offense to someone's actions you should ask yourself 2 questions. First - did they do it maliciously? I would say No, Larva was just trying to be entertaining, have fun, or be funny. Second - was it directed at you? I would say Larva would have done these antics regardless of who he was playing in the finals, so it wasn't an attempt to personally disrespect a particular player, it was just Larva trying to have fun. Legend can still choose to be offended, and that's his right.
I do think it's funny that in most sports you can literally assault someone and only get suspended for 1-2 games but in Starcraft if you play with your feet you get banned for life.
Well said and a nice example as well. I'm glad you brought up the intention side of morality, cause I think that absolutely applies here. I don't know how stupid one has to be to think that is a good example. It is totally a different thing. The grand master and the players agreed to have the grandmaster play blindfolded, or play multiple games at once, that makes it a fair/fun competition. Did Larva play with his foot from beginning? No. He only did that when he is obvious in an advantageous position. Almost every game will end up in a position that you can simply "A" all your army to destroy everything, if the other player does not quit before that. Even I can use my foot to do it in that situation. Does it make me a better player than the opponent? No, I might be just lucky and might have lost 10 games in a row. Then what's the point of using your foot when you obviously CANNOT win if you do it from the beginning, besides humiliating your opponent? If it doesn't make a difference, and there's no point, then how is it humiliating him? Did I miss something, and did he simultaneously shit talk and say how great he was for being able to win with his foot? Do you think the viewers think any less of Legion because Larva used his foot after the game was effectively won? Since many people think it is inappropriate, and LX felt insulted, if you still pretend it is totally OK to EVERYONE, then there is nothing that needs to argue about. Did any grandmaster masturbate or dance naked when he plays his fans, despite that he could do that and win and it is more "entertaining"? Just to what extent you would think it is appropriate and entertaining? eat shit? fuck his uncle? I am sure someone would find it "entertaining", not me, and not many others. Seems like maybe you should take some time to actually think things through before posting them. Your logic is much more flawed than the logic you are criticizing. You might be a victim of confirmation bias or https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/02/27/why-facts-dont-change-our-minds You have to point our what logic of mine is flawed to make it just a little bit convincing. Essentially you are intentionally/unintentionally misunderstanding peoples points and making your own points to combat those points made up by yourself. Thus, the things you are saying have no real bearing on what the people you are arguing with are actually saying. You take things to extremes to try and make your points, but the extremes you use are not realistic and therefore don't make the point you're trying to. Since you are obviously just someone who made an account to defend your wounded ego and cause drama here I'm not going to spend too much time on you. But those are things to think about when posting.
This post of you is totally pointless. Please stop wasting other people's time.
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On December 05 2017 16:51 AManHasNoName wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2017 16:46 thinkinger wrote:On December 05 2017 16:45 AManHasNoName wrote:On December 05 2017 16:39 thinkinger wrote:On December 05 2017 16:30 Myrddraal wrote:On December 05 2017 16:21 thinkinger wrote:On December 05 2017 15:54 AManHasNoName wrote:On December 05 2017 15:51 BlackJack wrote:
In chess when an exhibition is played with 1 grandmaster and a bunch of inferior players it's almost to be expected that the grandmaster will either play blindfolded, play multiple games at once, take one of his own pieces off the board, etc. If a grandmaster did that to another grandmaster in a serious match then it would definitely be viewed as disrespectful. I think Legend needs to accept that he fits into the first category, not the second. He's not on Larva's level.
I think before you take personal offense to someone's actions you should ask yourself 2 questions. First - did they do it maliciously? I would say No, Larva was just trying to be entertaining, have fun, or be funny. Second - was it directed at you? I would say Larva would have done these antics regardless of who he was playing in the finals, so it wasn't an attempt to personally disrespect a particular player, it was just Larva trying to have fun. Legend can still choose to be offended, and that's his right.
I do think it's funny that in most sports you can literally assault someone and only get suspended for 1-2 games but in Starcraft if you play with your feet you get banned for life.
Well said and a nice example as well. I'm glad you brought up the intention side of morality, cause I think that absolutely applies here. I don't know how stupid one has to be to think that is a good example. It is totally a different thing. The grand master and the players agreed to have the grandmaster play blindfolded, or play multiple games at once, that makes it a fair/fun competition. Did Larva play with his foot from beginning? No. He only did that when he is obvious in an advantageous position. Almost every game will end up in a position that you can simply "A" all your army to destroy everything, if the other player does not quit before that. Even I can use my foot to do it in that situation. Does it make me a better player than the opponent? No, I might be just lucky and might have lost 10 games in a row. Then what's the point of using your foot when you obviously CANNOT win if you do it from the beginning, besides humiliating your opponent? If it doesn't make a difference, and there's no point, then how is it humiliating him? Did I miss something, and did he simultaneously shit talk and say how great he was for being able to win with his foot? Do you think the viewers think any less of Legion because Larva used his foot after the game was effectively won? Since many people think it is inappropriate, and LX felt insulted, if you still pretend it is totally OK to EVERYONE, then there is nothing that needs to argue about. Did any grandmaster masturbate or dance naked when he plays his fans, despite that he could do that and win and it is more "entertaining"? Just to what extent you would think it is appropriate and entertaining? eat shit? fuck his uncle? I am sure someone would find it "entertaining", not me, and not many others. Seems like maybe you should take some time to actually think things through before posting them. Your logic is much more flawed than the logic you are criticizing. You might be a victim of confirmation bias or https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/02/27/why-facts-dont-change-our-minds You have to point our what logic of mine is flawed to make it just a little bit convincing. Essentially you are intentionally/unintentionally misunderstanding peoples points and making your own points to combat those points made up by yourself. Thus, the things you are saying have no real bearing on what the people you are arguing with are actually saying. You take things to extremes to try and make your points, but the extremes you use are not realistic and therefore don't make the point you're trying to. You're doing something like this: Person 1 makes claim Y. Person 2 restates person 1’s claim (in a distorted way). Person 2 attacks the distorted version of the claim. Therefore, claim Y is false. Since you are obviously just someone who made an account to defend your wounded ego and cause drama here I'm not going to spend too much time on you. But those are things to think about when posting.
You didn't seems to understand at all what I am saying. Good luck with your further reading.
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EPT
