On December 05 2017 18:13 BlackJack wrote: Larva posted a video on his youtube page. Can anyone translate?
He basically says that:
1. Zotac Korea and NA is helping him out and supporting him at the moment 2. Zotac China did release their statement without discussing it internally 3. Larva wanted to apologize to Legend since he is the one to decide if it was too much or not but Legend refused his apology 4. Zotac Korea & NA told him that if it was something that he shouldn't have done they shouldn't have zoomed in when he did his performance. Zooming on his performance and showing it fullscreen intentionally on the live broadcast basically means that there is no problem with it.
I'm just laughing because this was supposed to be the grand finals, and the runner up can't even beat a nuke strat. I mean if the skills are that different, then props to Larva for fking trying to make it interesting. So many more people will now see bw. Hell yeah
Just saw the last five matches, absolutely hilarious! Especially with the commentators and salty incontrol to provide the other end, just great.
In the interview at the end he mentions that he actually went out of his way to think of these things and also performed some of these feats (such as the foot on the keyboard) on this stream by user request, who like to see him do trolling feats.
After that he sasys that if its appreciated and hes invited overseas again he will think of more creative means to do small trolls. I for one hope he sees his overwelming views and backup from america/korea as positive, because I want to see more of this.
TL;DR: Zotac Korea/America told Larva that they didn't have problem with his actions
Larva says Zotac Korea and Zotac America was against the decision and they were big help to him with the current incident, even when there was big time zone difference between Korea/America. They stayed up all night helping him with the current fiasco.
On getting approval: Larva also said that there may have been some miscommunication between one of Zotac staff and him since the translator wasn't there when he arrived at first.
Zotac America/Korea's standpoint is that if there were problem with his performance, they wouldn't have done full screen shot of him doing it, as well as putting rules set beforehand. In other words, when they did a zoom up shot on Larva's showboating instead of turning off Larva's camera, it was implied that it was allowed
Larva said that it would have been rather problematic if the public response was negative, but it seems to be rather overwhelmingly positive.
Larva said that Legend refused his apology when he said he would apologize if his actions caused offence since Legend had his own circumstances. Larva understands 100% why legend may have been upset at him since he played with his foot and all, but Larva's had issues with Zotac China releasing the ban statement
It was said that it was Zotac China's indepdent decision to release those statements/ban, and right now, theres even opposition from Zotac America, who is asking why Zotac China released that sort of statement.
He also says the foreign reaction as well as korean reaction was very positive, and he is aware that the video clips hit 700k+ on western media, and total views are over 1m+. He was told that he would be getting more interview requests, and he had already received one as of now.
Larva also said that reason why he didn't speak out before was that even if he didn't have much to lose since he wouldn't be competing overseas often, he was afraid what he said would damage Zotac Korea/America. Since he had previously thought Zotac China was the Zotac headquarters, he didn't wanna say things that would damage Zotac Korea/America since the Zotac staff worked so hard to prepare for these events.
On incontrol misunderstanding: Larva now knows that incontrol didn't mean to give him impression that he was mad at larva. Larva says that he now knows that incontrol's facial expression was because incontrol was tired, rather than being mad at him. So thats cleared up since Larva thought incontrol was mad at him yesterday.
On December 05 2017 05:23 fish_radio wrote: Lx's words were mistranslated. I feel by Chinese standards at least;; "Mentally ill" and things like that are not offensive at all. The way it is written, he is genuine he believes Larva needs medical help.
I want to dislike Zotac for this, but Larva is so manner... He's a crybaby. Even in Korean networks he will trash talk everybody, then cry when someone trash talks him.
Are you actually for real? He believes Larva needs mental help, but it's definitely not an insult. I guess we have different opinions on what is insulting. I know I'd feel insulted if someone said I was actually mentally ill.
On December 05 2017 12:52 Letmelose wrote: Outrage after somebody disrespects their opponents as a showmanship comes with the territory. So does publicity. It's all part of the baggage. I didn't even know this tournament was going on until the outrage popped up.
With that being said, people who draw the line in accordance with their own specific parameters, and to pretend that their individual tastes should be acknowledged as universal truths, are quite frankly speaking, delusional.
It's like edgy comedy, everybody is just fine with it until the subject matter brushes on something too close to heart. People laugh at some at some of the most heinous shit you could imagine, such as the death of a fellow human being, making light of a serious social phenomenon, then when the jokes moves on to their personal sacred zone, such as their religion of choice, gender or nationality, they suddenly become outraged.
Sure what Larva did was incredibly disrespectful, but don't give me that bullshit about being outraged because Larva did it versus somebody older, or was far more accomplished as a professional player.
How much outrage do you think was caused when Larva danced mid-game versus Sea in the semi-finals of a much more prestigious tournament?
It is understandable that Legend is upset with the huge disrespect. It is understandable that people who care for Legend and what he stands for is upset with the huge disrespect. What is not understandable is when people come up with bullshit reasons such as the lack of sincerity for their level of outrage. People are outraged less about the actions carried out by Larva, but who it was directed against, since Larva has always been an obnoxious clown who doesn't hold back from doing in-game disrespect versus his SK Telecom T1 seniors such as BeSt, should the opportunity present itself.
If people desire a certain level of respect, that is fine. If people want to support their favourite player after being disrespected in one of the most humiliating ways, that is fine. But don't give me that bullshit of always wanting a healthy level of respect and honour in Brood War only when the situation irks you for whatever personal reasons you have.
Poor Sea, I totally agree with you. And me too, I didn't know the tournament until the incident as well. I can only imagine us gamer are the one who desire such showmanship. As any media is only there to serve the audience. The audience(us) asked for it. xD
On December 05 2017 05:23 fish_radio wrote: Lx's words were mistranslated. I feel by Chinese standards at least;; "Mentally ill" and things like that are not offensive at all. The way it is written, he is genuine he believes Larva needs medical help.
I want to dislike Zotac for this, but Larva is so manner... He's a crybaby. Even in Korean networks he will trash talk everybody, then cry when someone trash talks him.
Are you actually for real? He believes Larva needs mental help, but it's definitely not an insult. I guess we have different opinions on what is insulting. I know I'd feel insulted if someone said I was actually mentally ill.
I think this whole discussion is full of people with contradicting opinions on what's insulting and under what circumstances - and everyone is somewhat right - one may be angry when humiliated publicly, other one can enjoy it, other feel fine with it happening as long as it doesn't happen to them and some can ignore it. I don't think anyone has grounds to say that it was not intentional humiliation though and that it was a light-hearted banter between friends.
Did Legend hurt Larva now? Then it's even I feel, we should have fun, no? Or is it not okay because it's a Chinese guy insulting and we should rally behind our Korean boi?
On December 05 2017 05:23 fish_radio wrote: Lx's words were mistranslated. I feel by Chinese standards at least;; "Mentally ill" and things like that are not offensive at all. The way it is written, he is genuine he believes Larva needs medical help.
I want to dislike Zotac for this, but Larva is so manner... He's a crybaby. Even in Korean networks he will trash talk everybody, then cry when someone trash talks him.
Are you actually for real? He believes Larva needs mental help, but it's definitely not an insult. I guess we have different opinions on what is insulting. I know I'd feel insulted if someone said I was actually mentally ill.
I think this whole discussion is full of people with contradicting opinions on what's insulting and under what circumstances (and everyone is right to a degree, since it's mostly subjective - one may be angry when humiliated publicly, other one can enjoy it, other feel fine with it happening as long as it doesn't happen to them some can ignore it) and those who have fun when someone feels hurt, did Legend hurt Larva now? Then it's even I feel, we should have fun, no? Or is it not okay because it's a Chinese guy insulting?
Quite interesting pointing. I can feel myself having contradiction within myself too. I don't actually know if anything anyone show on this incident is right or wrong. For me personally, I am too dumb to figure that out. It's hard to draw a conclusion without a pre-condition.
But I can understand where both side is coming from.
But I can tell I am not a fan of Larva. Aside from that, god is the only one who can judge this situation, I am too dumb. xD
On December 05 2017 05:23 fish_radio wrote: Lx's words were mistranslated. I feel by Chinese standards at least;; "Mentally ill" and things like that are not offensive at all. The way it is written, he is genuine he believes Larva needs medical help.
I want to dislike Zotac for this, but Larva is so manner... He's a crybaby. Even in Korean networks he will trash talk everybody, then cry when someone trash talks him.
Are you actually for real? He believes Larva needs mental help, but it's definitely not an insult. I guess we have different opinions on what is insulting. I know I'd feel insulted if someone said I was actually mentally ill.
I think this whole discussion is full of people with contradicting opinions on what's insulting and under what circumstances - and everyone is somewhat right - one may be angry when humiliated publicly, other one can enjoy it, other feel fine with it happening as long as it doesn't happen to them and some can ignore it. I don't think anyone has grounds to say that it was not intentional humiliation though and that it was a light-hearted banter between friends.
Did Legend hurt Larva now? Then it's even I feel, we should have fun, no? Or is it not okay because it's a Chinese guy insulting and we should rally behind our Korean boi?
Where do you see the people yelling for Legend to be banned? People are defending Larva because he is literally being attacked by a tournament organizer. I'll start rallying behind Legend the moment there's a hint he will get banned. Are you actually trying to slide the narrative so that anyone who doesn't weep for Legends' pride is just an anti-chinese racist?
On December 05 2017 05:23 fish_radio wrote: Lx's words were mistranslated. I feel by Chinese standards at least;; "Mentally ill" and things like that are not offensive at all. The way it is written, he is genuine he believes Larva needs medical help.
I want to dislike Zotac for this, but Larva is so manner... He's a crybaby. Even in Korean networks he will trash talk everybody, then cry when someone trash talks him.
Are you actually for real? He believes Larva needs mental help, but it's definitely not an insult. I guess we have different opinions on what is insulting. I know I'd feel insulted if someone said I was actually mentally ill.
I think this whole discussion is full of people with contradicting opinions on what's insulting and under what circumstances - and everyone is somewhat right - one may be angry when humiliated publicly, other one can enjoy it, other feel fine with it happening as long as it doesn't happen to them and some can ignore it. I don't think anyone has grounds to say that it was not intentional humiliation though and that it was a light-hearted banter between friends.
Did Legend hurt Larva now? Then it's even I feel, we should have fun, no? Or is it not okay because it's a Chinese guy insulting and we should rally behind our Korean boi?
Where do you see the people yelling for Legend to be banned? People are defending Larva because he is literally being attacked by a tournament organizer. I'll start rallying behind Legend the moment there's a hint he will get banned. Are you actually trying to slide the narrative so that anyone who doesn't weep for Legends' pride is just an anti-chinese racist?
That's what I think, not to have any misunderstandings.
I'm not taking any side, I don't think it was fun to do what Larva did (that puts me in the minority I'm guessing) as it was clearly disrespectful, trying to ban Larva after the tournament is ridiculous, they could easily just interrupt him if the organizers didn't like it.
I understand both sides, what I don't understand a little bit is people getting mad at Legend for feeling offended. Is it wrong to feel offended when being disrespected? From other thread:
On December 05 2017 21:15 SiZ.FaNtAsY wrote: F that coward Legend, crying after he's half way across the country.
And if you're down with Legend, F u too.
Go Larva!
But I guess that behavior is warranted if you're a Korean or like Koreans very much
It's so nice to see how many people care deeply about BW and the noble spirit that it takes to compete to be the best player! I'm so sad I missed the alternate stream where all the non-korean BW fans were watching the tournaments back in the SSL days. I had no idea there were this many passionate dedicated people who really fought for the game back when Larva was grinding and failing to perform at tournaments. Truly Larva should be more respectful he owes everything to you guys for the hard work you have put into the BW scene.
On December 05 2017 05:23 fish_radio wrote: Lx's words were mistranslated. I feel by Chinese standards at least;; "Mentally ill" and things like that are not offensive at all. The way it is written, he is genuine he believes Larva needs medical help.
I want to dislike Zotac for this, but Larva is so manner... He's a crybaby. Even in Korean networks he will trash talk everybody, then cry when someone trash talks him.
Are you actually for real? He believes Larva needs mental help, but it's definitely not an insult. I guess we have different opinions on what is insulting. I know I'd feel insulted if someone said I was actually mentally ill.
I think this whole discussion is full of people with contradicting opinions on what's insulting and under what circumstances - and everyone is somewhat right - one may be angry when humiliated publicly, other one can enjoy it, other feel fine with it happening as long as it doesn't happen to them and some can ignore it. I don't think anyone has grounds to say that it was not intentional humiliation though and that it was a light-hearted banter between friends.
Did Legend hurt Larva now? Then it's even I feel, we should have fun, no? Or is it not okay because it's a Chinese guy insulting and we should rally behind our Korean boi?
Where do you see the people yelling for Legend to be banned? People are defending Larva because he is literally being attacked by a tournament organizer. I'll start rallying behind Legend the moment there's a hint he will get banned. Are you actually trying to slide the narrative so that anyone who doesn't weep for Legends' pride is just an anti-chinese racist?
I personally think the discussion focusing on solely Larva vs Legend is pointless, as both side holds to some degree convincing argument for their action to be justified.
I'd rather ask everyone here a more interesting question. People who enjoys trolling old or young, how do we want to shape the world we live in going forward?
As E-Sports starting to become more mainstream, as well as the gamer generations grows older. In what ways are actions acceptable? How does what we do in gaming community represents the value of our society. As well as the brands that is in the business of selling. Does it align with their mission?
As we grow older, do we want to teach our children the value of respecting others? At what level are we supposed to be accepting jokes. If there are content like this in the tournament / show. Would there be a maturity rating like game rating that tells this is mature audience only?
Anyhow, I am just throwing a few ideas out there. I would be interested to see how the professionals like iNcontrol, rootCatz and the pros thinks about this. As they are the one who will be the leaders in our community.
I dont think its okay to tell others how they should feel about being disrespected. I say this to those in this thread that is going around telling how others are "salty" or "bitches" for feeling like they were disrespected. This is as plain as it gets with empathy. However its advicable to inform whoever feels disrespected that this was not the intention of the offender. Its okay to admit that Larva made a mistake, without condemning him and literally banning him for lifetime.
The thing about bantering or BM, is that it is done in a social context. You dont do those kind of things without having any idea how the receiver will respond. In the cases where the BM is intended to be received as disrespectful, there has to be an initial provokation or bad history between the players (like cj entus players vs firebathero and the pylon heart thing).
It seems larva did not think about this, hence he did a mistake - he was more focused on entertaining his audience which is a good thing in and of itself, but he had not done the approprate clarification with Legend beforehand and considering the language barrier between them this would have been quite difficult to do anyway in a proper manner. Which is why its best to just keep it clean and respectful when dealing with someone you dont know at all and who comes from a different culture and language.
We cannot throw social decensy out the window just because it gives attention on media platforms. All attention is not good attention, because it will attract the worst kind of "fans". The kind who only cares about drama and sensationalism. I would rather have quality over quantity - thats whats going to last in the long run. So lets keep promoting respectful and civil behaviour.
On December 05 2017 19:46 Golgotha wrote: I'm just laughing because this was supposed to be the grand finals, and the runner up can't even beat a nuke strat. I mean if the skills are that different, then props to Larva for fking trying to make it interesting. So many more people will now see bw. Hell yeah
Yea, can't be really mad at Larva. It was BM and while maybe not shining the best light on brood war as first impression, it gave the stream and BW definitely some bigger exposure which is great!
I think it's right of the organizers to distance themselves from Larvas actions and it's important that he explained his reasons and apologized. I really wish to believe he just did it for entertainment reasons and not to be BM specifically a chinese player ^ ^
EPT
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