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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On March 24 2017 10:18 Lorch wrote: I think JD vs Flash @ ASL Ro 4 had like 200k-300k and that's pretty much what some of the MLGs used to get back in 2011/2012. yep, that was the quoted number. Two of BW's most favourite ex-progamers and loved players. Pretty much, I think MLG was around 200k or so, maybe slightly higher. 200k isn't something to sneak about either lol. | ||
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arb
Noobville17920 Posts
On March 24 2017 08:09 [[Starlight]] wrote: I'm sure there's some BW 'purist' out there who would rant and rave that getting stuck is somehow 'part of the game' and that "if that gets changed, I'M NOT GONNA PLAY IT, WAAAAH!!!!".  Srsly, there are some ppl who are half-psychotic about literally *anything* getting changed or improved. Yeah they should fix dark swarm not letting stuff take splash if its burrowed or make mutas not stack or something like that that's a legit bug that isnt essential to the game that should be fixed nice try tho | ||
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lestye
United States4135 Posts
On March 24 2017 10:18 Lorch wrote: I think JD vs Flash @ ASL Ro 4 had like 200k-300k and that's pretty much what some of the MLGs used to get back in 2011/2012. Even then, that's a pittance with what Brood war was its prime. The 2005 Proleague finals has ~120k watching the event in person at the beach. | ||
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ShambhalaWar
United States930 Posts
On March 22 2017 09:17 TT1 wrote: 90's actually, almost every person who played/followed BW were 90's kids. We grew up in a savage culture, you missed the no filter heydays of TL.net. edit: btw for w/e its worth Fayth was kidding, we've known each other for a looooooooong time. In my world, someone being gay doesn't imply something negative. My guess is that it doesn't mean that for you either, yet you use the word as a derogatory term. Not as crude as "faggit," but still... taking something that's completely normal and co-oping it to use as an insult. As I said before, in the 80's people that actually demonized homosexuality, hence why "the 1980's called..." Sure it still happened in the 90's as well and sadly today it still occurs. | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
And who the fuck cares if they're trying to make bank off the past as long as they get us something we want. You didn't like it when they were "creative", so as long as they just stick to the old stuff then we'll be fine. No shit. Thats what my post said.On March 24 2017 14:04 ShambhalaWar wrote: As an avid cocksucker, we dont need you to make the english language pure in our defense. In my world, someone being gay doesn't imply something negative. My guess is that it doesn't mean that for you either, yet you use the word as a derogatory term. Not as crude as "faggit," but still... taking something that's completely normal and co-oping it to use as an insult. As I said before, in the 80's people that actually demonized homosexuality, hence why "the 1980's called..." Sure it still happened in the 90's as well and sadly today it still occurs.  | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6449 Posts
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TT1
Canada9977 Posts
On March 24 2017 14:04 ShambhalaWar wrote: In my world, someone being gay doesn't imply something negative. My guess is that it doesn't mean that for you either, yet you use the word as a derogatory term. Not as crude as "faggit," but still... taking something that's completely normal and co-oping it to use as an insult. As I said before, in the 80's people that actually demonized homosexuality, hence why "the 1980's called..." Sure it still happened in the 90's as well and sadly today it still occurs. You're right, bad habits. I had a gay friend in uni who didn't mind us saying "gay" (to convey a negative feeling) in front of him but out of respect we never said the "f word". Obviously we tried to avoid saying either words when he was around but sometimes it just slipped. Because of the way i grew up I always felt like "gay" was more of a borderline word (when used to convey a negative feeling) but now i realize that saying it in front of a general audience is just bad judgement. When you're sitting behind your monitor by yourself it's sometimes easy to forget that you're in a community with thousands of other people who all have different views. It's best to just be respectful and avoid these types of situations. Unfortunately for 90's kids the "f word" in particular is a big part of our lexicon, the word wasn't taboo'd at the time and society didn't teach us any better. Imo a lot people from my generation are desensitized to those words just because of how commonly we used them.. to the point where they're almost hard-wired into our brains now. That being said, i think it's common sense now to avoid saying the "f word" altogether in front of a general audience (anywhere online like on twitter, threads, streams etc., goes without saying in a public setting irl). But i won't lie to you, when i'm w/ a group of close friends it's still a very commonly used word for us and i think that statement holds true for a lot of people in my age group. With time all those words will eventually get weeded out tho.. us savage 80's and 90's kids will one day turn to dust .TLDR: sorry <3 P.S: Fayth sincerely feels bad and wanted me to apologize for him. I've known the guy for a while, on the outside he's a dirty dt dropper but deep (AND I MEAN DEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP <3 kaka) down he's a really good dude. Alright alright sorry, enough derailing. Onto more D rank banter on BW mechanics~~ ^_^ | ||
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Jae Zedong
407 Posts
On March 24 2017 10:57 eviltomahawk wrote: Of course ASL is going to have a bigger viewership if you factor in the Korean viewers. SC2's peak numbers were very impressive for its time because most of that came from a Western audience, especially in NA "If you factor in the Korean viewers". What the fuck is up with this shameless myopic jingoism? You realize the entire foreign BW and SC2 scenes owe much of their existence to Korea, right? BW would never have remained relevant after Warcraft 3 if global BW fans didn't have the Korean pro scene to follow and be inspired by. And with no succesful BW, there wouldn't be a successful SC2. The entire launch of SC2 leeched off what BW built, actively poaching and usurping BW's entire scene with convenient assistance from Blizzard. Don't talk down on Korea when they're the entire reason this thread even exists. | ||
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
Gosh, I wish it were, but, nope. I do in fact recall a thread where someone straight-facedly argued that the 'goons getting stuck on ramps' bug should NOT be fixed, because it would involve fixing pathing, which would mess with defender's advantage, and thus destroy the entire game.  In fact, I'm pretty sure the guy was wrong in his assessment, and that the bug occurred more due to some sort of bad interaction between the goon's long firing animation and its pathing/movement, and that you likely could fix one without suddenly greatly improving pathing (I mean, gee, if it were that simple to make pathing suddenly awesome, anyone could do it, right?). But it just goes to show how paranoid some ppl are about even fixing obvious BUGS in the game, much less doing more overt things, such as changing the aspect ratio or making a few minor balance changes. Some ppl are just itching to take their ball and go home, let's just say that. | ||
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KameZerg
Sweden1745 Posts
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
On March 24 2017 13:33 arb wrote: Yeah they should fix dark swarm not letting stuff take splash if its burrowed or make mutas not stack or something like that that's a legit bug that isnt essential to the game that should be fixed nice try tho You're really gonna equate muta stacking with goons getting stuck on ramps? Even with being pedantic and trying to insist 'both are just bugs, and thus should be treated exactly the same', I wouldn't call it muta stacking a straight-up bug... more like a capability that wasn't foreseen at the time, but which isn't necessarily a negative. But what does goons getting stuck on ramps do for anybody, gameplay-wise? It's not a positive, it's not even a neutral, it just flat sucks. End of story. And actually, there's a number of bugs/glitches/call them what you will, that are allowed in professional BW gameplay. Is anyone really arguing that they all have to go, or that if you fix bugs that obviously suck, some sort of obsessive-compulsive consistency rule then kicks in and mandates that muta-stacking, hold lurkers, pressing units through minerals, larva trick, etc. etc. must then all die?  Yeah, that's a reach. As is often the case in life, you make the call on a case-by-case basis, and obsessive-compulsive consistency can go hang. | ||
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
On March 24 2017 09:17 ZeroChrome wrote: 95%+ of the people who will buy a potential BWHD dont give a rats ass or even know a single thing about professional competition in starcraft. Considering that nearly half of original BW's sales were in Korea, your stat/prediction does not seem to hold water. | ||
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Zera
Lithuania716 Posts
On March 24 2017 21:22 [[Starlight]] wrote: You're really gonna equate muta stacking with goons getting stuck on ramps? Even with being pedantic and trying to insist 'both are just bugs, and thus should be treated exactly the same', I wouldn't call it muta stacking a straight-up bug... more like a capability that wasn't foreseen at the time, but which isn't necessarily a negative. But what does goons getting stuck on ramps do for anybody, gameplay-wise? It's not a positive, it's not even a neutral, it just flat sucks. End of story. And actually, there's a number of bugs/glitches/call them what you will, that are allowed in professional BW gameplay. Is anyone really arguing that they all have to go, or that if you fix bugs that obviously suck, some sort of obsessive-compulsive consistency rule then kicks in and mandates that muta-stacking, hold lurkers, pressing units through minerals, larva trick, etc. etc. must then all die? Yeah, that's a reach. As is often the case in life, you make the call on a case-by-case basis, and obsessive-compulsive consistency can go hang. The problem is, we do not know what exactly in the game enginge causes units to stop moving (it invloves not only dragoons, my lings also stops sometimes) and fixing this bug might effect something else in game like pathing, unit interactions or whatever. It's annoying, it might theoretically cost you a game (though I never experienced that). It would be good if it's fixed, but we are not going to lose anything if it stays  Unit stacking is certainly not a bug, it's a feature - magic box. | ||
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
On March 24 2017 21:42 Zera wrote: The problem is, we do not know what exactly in the game enginge causes units to stop moving (it invloves not only dragoons, my lings also stops sometimes) and fixing this bug might effect something else in game like pathing, unit interactions or whatever. It's annoying, it might theoretically cost you a game (though I never experienced that). It would be good if it's fixed, but we are not going to lose anything if it stays Unit stacking is certainly not a bug, it's a feature - magic box. I'm relatively sure that fixing the goon stuck bug isn't going to somehow automagically give BW 'shit gliding through a pig's lubed lower intestinal tract' pathing. And agree with you on muta stacking, it's not truly a bug. Air units *should* be able to stack, the sky is not a two-dimensional space, land is. *insert obvious lame joke about how 'but BW is 2D durh hurh' here* | ||
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lestye
United States4135 Posts
On March 24 2017 20:52 Jae Zedong wrote: "If you factor in the Korean viewers". What the fuck is up with this shameless myopic jingoism? You realize the entire foreign BW and SC2 scenes owe much of their existence to Korea, right? BW would never have remained relevant after Warcraft 3 if global BW fans didn't have the Korean pro scene to follow and be inspired by. And with no succesful BW, there wouldn't be a successful SC2. The entire launch of SC2 leeched off what BW built, actively poaching and usurping BW's entire scene with convenient assistance from Blizzard. Don't talk down on Korea when they're the entire reason this thread even exists. Good lord, you don't have to be so defensive. His entire point was that SC2 had unprecedented success in the West than BW and WC3 ever did. That was incredibly inspired by the Korean scene, but up until SC2, RTS viewership in the West didnt have that at all when Korea had an entire professional industry years before. | ||
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KameZerg
Sweden1745 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/chUECBA.png) | ||
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Jae Zedong
407 Posts
On March 24 2017 23:08 lestye wrote:His entire point was that SC2 had unprecedented success in the West than BW and WC3 ever did. That was incredibly inspired by the Korean scene, but up until SC2, RTS viewership in the West didnt have that at all when Korea had an entire professional industry years before. That's self evident though, isn't it? What's the point of bringing up something plainly obvious to literally anyone unless there's some sort of agenda. And it's hard to interpret that agenda as something other than western viewing numbers being "more impressive" in general. BW is the game that truly broke new ground, not SC2. A competitive eSports scene the size of BW was completely unheard of before BW. A competitive eSports scene the size of SC2 was not unheard of before SC2. Not even within the same genre. | ||
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lestye
United States4135 Posts
On March 24 2017 23:31 Jae Zedong wrote: That's self evident though, isn't it? What's the point of bringing up something plainly obvious to literally anyone unless there's some sort of agenda. And it's hard to interpret that agenda as something other than western viewing numbers being "more impressive" in general. BW is the game that truly broke new ground, not SC2. A competitive eSports scene the size of BW was completely unheard of before BW. A competitive eSports scene the size of SC2 was not unheard of before SC2. Not even within the same genre. Because you were downplaying SC2 in the West over a very very established Brood War scene and its fans. Thats why its kinda important to differentiate whats big ONLY in Korea versus whats big internationally. On March 24 2017 23:22 ICanFlyLow wrote: Blizzard lead artist said the old BW models are no longer there, so they have to design new ones? + Show Spoiler + Oh thats crazy. I guess this was ye olde Blizzard that didnt have proper data archiving. | ||
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Jae Zedong
407 Posts
On March 24 2017 23:37 lestye wrote:Because you were downplaying SC2 in the West over a very very established Brood War scene and its fans. I wasn't downplaying anything. I'm not the guy barging into a comparison of BW vs SC2 viewers saying "well of course SC2 has a lot of viewers when you factor in North America". Can you literally not see what I would be implying with such an inane statement? | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On March 24 2017 23:45 Jae Zedong wrote: I wasn't downplaying anything. I'm not the guy barging into a comparison of BW vs SC2 viewers saying "well of course SC2 has a lot of viewers when you factor in North America". Can you literally not see what I would be implying with such an inane statement? Gosh he only said it because as a westerner we are obviously more prone to see western viewership. What kind of viewership is more important (to blizzard)? I don't know but i actually would assume that western viewership is their main goal in general, yes. No reason to interprete everything as "having an agenda" like wtf? | ||
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