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On December 20 2016 12:30 EmuSirius wrote:
I am trying to make a little BW enhanced mod named "StarCraft Caprice",here are some features I thought:
[...]
4. slight game balance change
I'd seriously reconsider doing this. You're opening a can of worms, and the graphical updates would make this a very interesting mod on their own.
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On December 21 2016 03:51 thezanursic wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2016 12:47 [[Starlight]] wrote:On December 20 2016 12:33 notgayDragon wrote:
But as for balance, I think that should be left untouched. That's the one thing nobody ever wants touched. Not entirely true. But it is true that of the ppl who want even slight balance changes, they can never seem to agree on what those should be. So, Blizzard would have to make any of those type of changes. If I had to change something, I'd buff Dark Archons, Queens and Ghosts a bit, soo that they saw SOME competative play. Those units might as well not exist in the competative sense. Increase starting energy of all those units by 50. Increase Ghosts HP by a bit, don't see this having a negative impact on the game, worst case scenario Queens become legit option in lategame PvZ
1. Dark Archons and Queens both see competitive play.
2. The reason Queens and Ghosts are not used more is because it just adds more complexity, having to use the abilities on top of controlling a lot of units is too much even if you have 300APM.
3. If you want units to have more starting energy simply research the max energy upgrade, it may only give 12.5 more energy, but that's more than enough in most cases. And having units come out spell ready would be ridiculous in too many cases.
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my eye hurts after scrolling down
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On December 21 2016 08:38 ilsamsamchil wrote:
my eye hurts after scrolling down
I had the same feeling.
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If there are balance changes, I'm afraid I won't be supporting this.
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On December 21 2016 05:12 538 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2016 12:30 EmuSirius wrote:
I am trying to make a little BW enhanced mod named "StarCraft Caprice",here are some features I thought:
[...]
4. slight game balance change
I'd seriously reconsider doing this. You're opening a can of worms, and the graphical updates would make this a very interesting mod on their own.
Agreed.
Once you touch game balance it is essentially no longer the BW that people love (but then again this is a mod).
In the end the option is up to you if you want to fiddle with balance, but even changing numbers slightly makes the game different than BW.
If you for some reason want to change more complex things (like pathing or unit properties or even tile properties, etc.), there's no telling what the side effects could be. Maybe changing one little AI behavior leads to unforeseeable ramifications somewhere else in the game... how would you know for certain that it did or did not change anything?
Another point: Even if the game could be balanced better, doing so leads a big chance that less people will be interested in using the mod. Even if it's better, less people will touch it... because it won't be BW anymore. BW game balance is a sacred thing to some people.
I kinda see it like the dilemma for those in the hip hop community: sell out for the popularity/money/fame, or stay faithful to yourself but be ok with not blowing up or your work not catching on.
Except here, it's less certain if game balance is even needed (could go either way, honestly).
And yes, the color saturation is a bit much.
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On December 21 2016 05:22 LML wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2016 03:51 thezanursic wrote:On December 20 2016 12:47 [[Starlight]] wrote:On December 20 2016 12:33 notgayDragon wrote:
But as for balance, I think that should be left untouched. That's the one thing nobody ever wants touched. Not entirely true. But it is true that of the ppl who want even slight balance changes, they can never seem to agree on what those should be. So, Blizzard would have to make any of those type of changes. If I had to change something, I'd buff Dark Archons, Queens and Ghosts a bit, soo that they saw SOME competative play. Those units might as well not exist in the competative sense. Increase starting energy of all those units by 50. Increase Ghosts HP by a bit, don't see this having a negative impact on the game, worst case scenario Queens become legit option in lategame PvZ 1. Dark Archons and Queens both see competitive play. 2. The reason Queens and Ghosts are not used more is because it just adds more complexity, having to use the abilities on top of controlling a lot of units is too much even if you have 300APM. 3. If you want units to have more starting energy simply research the max energy upgrade, it may only give 12.5 more energy, but that's more than enough in most cases. And having units come out spell ready would be ridiculous in too many cases.
No we don't Queens sometimes get used but not often enough precisely because it takes too long for the firstbroodling. I believe that even with 50 extra energy it would still take a few seconds before they could get used.
And Dark Archon are a joke BM unit.
Starting energy is literally the most liberal buff possible. If you think that this would make queens OP you've clearly never played BW
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Can you guys keep the discussion to the thread and not balance talk? Like really, go to SC2 forums and talk about balance these days. BW doesn't need patched. It's still an amazing game. If you really think hard about it you realize it's beauty is not even fully discovered yet. The more you get to know Brood War, the more it amazes you.
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On December 21 2016 17:00 thezanursic wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2016 05:22 LML wrote:On December 21 2016 03:51 thezanursic wrote:On December 20 2016 12:47 [[Starlight]] wrote:On December 20 2016 12:33 notgayDragon wrote:
But as for balance, I think that should be left untouched. That's the one thing nobody ever wants touched. Not entirely true. But it is true that of the ppl who want even slight balance changes, they can never seem to agree on what those should be. So, Blizzard would have to make any of those type of changes. If I had to change something, I'd buff Dark Archons, Queens and Ghosts a bit, soo that they saw SOME competative play. Those units might as well not exist in the competative sense. Increase starting energy of all those units by 50. Increase Ghosts HP by a bit, don't see this having a negative impact on the game, worst case scenario Queens become legit option in lategame PvZ 1. Dark Archons and Queens both see competitive play. 2. The reason Queens and Ghosts are not used more is because it just adds more complexity, having to use the abilities on top of controlling a lot of units is too much even if you have 300APM. 3. If you want units to have more starting energy simply research the max energy upgrade, it may only give 12.5 more energy, but that's more than enough in most cases. And having units come out spell ready would be ridiculous in too many cases. No we don't Queens sometimes get used but not often enough precisely because it takes too long for the firstbroodling. I believe that even with 50 extra energy it would still take a few seconds before they could get used. And Dark Archon are a joke BM unit. Starting energy is literally the most liberal buff possible. If you think that this would make queens OP you've clearly never played BW
Dark Archon a joke BM unit? Maybe on D-, but in PvP and PvZ Dark Archons are used to counter high templars and defilers
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United States10283 Posts
On December 20 2016 12:47 [[Starlight]] wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2016 12:33 notgayDragon wrote:
But as for balance, I think that should be left untouched. That's the one thing nobody ever wants touched. Not entirely true. But it is true that of the ppl who want even slight balance changes, they can never seem to agree on what those should be. So, Blizzard would have to make any of those type of changes.
The only balance changes should be making scouts either faster or cost 25 minerals less. Any more than that and brood war is no longer the same anymore.
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well my experience is that if some random mod maker want to touch balance, it gets fucked up completely.
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On December 21 2016 17:00 thezanursic wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2016 05:22 LML wrote:On December 21 2016 03:51 thezanursic wrote:On December 20 2016 12:47 [[Starlight]] wrote:On December 20 2016 12:33 notgayDragon wrote:
But as for balance, I think that should be left untouched. That's the one thing nobody ever wants touched. Not entirely true. But it is true that of the ppl who want even slight balance changes, they can never seem to agree on what those should be. So, Blizzard would have to make any of those type of changes. If I had to change something, I'd buff Dark Archons, Queens and Ghosts a bit, soo that they saw SOME competative play. Those units might as well not exist in the competative sense. Increase starting energy of all those units by 50. Increase Ghosts HP by a bit, don't see this having a negative impact on the game, worst case scenario Queens become legit option in lategame PvZ 1. Dark Archons and Queens both see competitive play. 2. The reason Queens and Ghosts are not used more is because it just adds more complexity, having to use the abilities on top of controlling a lot of units is too much even if you have 300APM. 3. If you want units to have more starting energy simply research the max energy upgrade, it may only give 12.5 more energy, but that's more than enough in most cases. And having units come out spell ready would be ridiculous in too many cases. No we don't Queens sometimes get used but not often enough precisely because it takes too long for the firstbroodling. I believe that even with 50 extra energy it would still take a few seconds before they could get used. And Dark Archon are a joke BM unit. Starting energy is literally the most liberal buff possible. If you think that this would make queens OP you've clearly never played BW
imo this balance change would be terrible, really terrible.
Zerg has so many larva comapared to lets say terrans factories with machine shops. So if every queen of yours can trade against one tank, you will win.
What a lame gameplay this would be.
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On December 21 2016 18:47 FlaShFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2016 12:47 [[Starlight]] wrote:On December 20 2016 12:33 notgayDragon wrote:
But as for balance, I think that should be left untouched. That's the one thing nobody ever wants touched. Not entirely true. But it is true that of the ppl who want even slight balance changes, they can never seem to agree on what those should be. So, Blizzard would have to make any of those type of changes. The only balance changes should be making scouts either faster or cost 25 minerals less. Any more than that and brood war is no longer the same anymore.
This. Making scouts slightly faster would actually be cool imo.
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On December 21 2016 19:06 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2016 18:47 FlaShFTW wrote:On December 20 2016 12:47 [[Starlight]] wrote:On December 20 2016 12:33 notgayDragon wrote:
But as for balance, I think that should be left untouched. That's the one thing nobody ever wants touched. Not entirely true. But it is true that of the ppl who want even slight balance changes, they can never seem to agree on what those should be. So, Blizzard would have to make any of those type of changes. The only balance changes should be making scouts either faster or cost 25 minerals less. Any more than that and brood war is no longer the same anymore. This. Making scouts slightly faster would actually be cool imo.
they have an upgrade for that
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50611 Posts
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On December 21 2016 19:04 Foxxan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2016 17:00 thezanursic wrote:On December 21 2016 05:22 LML wrote:On December 21 2016 03:51 thezanursic wrote:On December 20 2016 12:47 [[Starlight]] wrote:On December 20 2016 12:33 notgayDragon wrote:
But as for balance, I think that should be left untouched. That's the one thing nobody ever wants touched. Not entirely true. But it is true that of the ppl who want even slight balance changes, they can never seem to agree on what those should be. So, Blizzard would have to make any of those type of changes. If I had to change something, I'd buff Dark Archons, Queens and Ghosts a bit, soo that they saw SOME competative play. Those units might as well not exist in the competative sense. Increase starting energy of all those units by 50. Increase Ghosts HP by a bit, don't see this having a negative impact on the game, worst case scenario Queens become legit option in lategame PvZ 1. Dark Archons and Queens both see competitive play. 2. The reason Queens and Ghosts are not used more is because it just adds more complexity, having to use the abilities on top of controlling a lot of units is too much even if you have 300APM. 3. If you want units to have more starting energy simply research the max energy upgrade, it may only give 12.5 more energy, but that's more than enough in most cases. And having units come out spell ready would be ridiculous in too many cases. No we don't Queens sometimes get used but not often enough precisely because it takes too long for the firstbroodling. I believe that even with 50 extra energy it would still take a few seconds before they could get used. And Dark Archon are a joke BM unit. Starting energy is literally the most liberal buff possible. If you think that this would make queens OP you've clearly never played BW imo this balance change would be terrible, really terrible. Zerg has so many larva comapared to lets say terrans factories with machine shops. So if every queen of yours can trade against one tank, you will win. What a lame gameplay this would be.
I doubt that would happen considering how gas reliant zerg is.
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On December 21 2016 17:00 thezanursic wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2016 05:22 LML wrote:On December 21 2016 03:51 thezanursic wrote:On December 20 2016 12:47 [[Starlight]] wrote:On December 20 2016 12:33 notgayDragon wrote:
But as for balance, I think that should be left untouched. That's the one thing nobody ever wants touched. Not entirely true. But it is true that of the ppl who want even slight balance changes, they can never seem to agree on what those should be. So, Blizzard would have to make any of those type of changes. If I had to change something, I'd buff Dark Archons, Queens and Ghosts a bit, soo that they saw SOME competative play. Those units might as well not exist in the competative sense. Increase starting energy of all those units by 50. Increase Ghosts HP by a bit, don't see this having a negative impact on the game, worst case scenario Queens become legit option in lategame PvZ 1. Dark Archons and Queens both see competitive play. 2. The reason Queens and Ghosts are not used more is because it just adds more complexity, having to use the abilities on top of controlling a lot of units is too much even if you have 300APM. 3. If you want units to have more starting energy simply research the max energy upgrade, it may only give 12.5 more energy, but that's more than enough in most cases. And having units come out spell ready would be ridiculous in too many cases. No we don't Queens sometimes get used but not often enough precisely because it takes too long for the firstbroodling. I believe that even with 50 extra energy it would still take a few seconds before they could get used. And Dark Archon are a joke BM unit. Starting energy is literally the most liberal buff possible. If you think that this would make queens OP you've clearly never played BW
We just saw Queens being used this season by Effort to counter mech, and it has been shown to be effective already in the pro scene...
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On December 21 2016 18:36 LML wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2016 17:00 thezanursic wrote:On December 21 2016 05:22 LML wrote:On December 21 2016 03:51 thezanursic wrote:On December 20 2016 12:47 [[Starlight]] wrote:On December 20 2016 12:33 notgayDragon wrote:
But as for balance, I think that should be left untouched. That's the one thing nobody ever wants touched. Not entirely true. But it is true that of the ppl who want even slight balance changes, they can never seem to agree on what those should be. So, Blizzard would have to make any of those type of changes. If I had to change something, I'd buff Dark Archons, Queens and Ghosts a bit, soo that they saw SOME competative play. Those units might as well not exist in the competative sense. Increase starting energy of all those units by 50. Increase Ghosts HP by a bit, don't see this having a negative impact on the game, worst case scenario Queens become legit option in lategame PvZ 1. Dark Archons and Queens both see competitive play. 2. The reason Queens and Ghosts are not used more is because it just adds more complexity, having to use the abilities on top of controlling a lot of units is too much even if you have 300APM. 3. If you want units to have more starting energy simply research the max energy upgrade, it may only give 12.5 more energy, but that's more than enough in most cases. And having units come out spell ready would be ridiculous in too many cases. No we don't Queens sometimes get used but not often enough precisely because it takes too long for the firstbroodling. I believe that even with 50 extra energy it would still take a few seconds before they could get used. And Dark Archon are a joke BM unit. Starting energy is literally the most liberal buff possible. If you think that this would make queens OP you've clearly never played BW Dark Archon a joke BM unit? Maybe on D-, but in PvP and PvZ Dark Archons are used to counter high templars and defilers
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Dark_Archon#Notable_Games
Here is an extensive list of games where Dark Archons were used.
You clearly have NO idea what you are talking about.
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United States10283 Posts
On December 21 2016 20:00 LML wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2016 19:06 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 21 2016 18:47 FlaShFTW wrote:On December 20 2016 12:47 [[Starlight]] wrote:On December 20 2016 12:33 notgayDragon wrote:
But as for balance, I think that should be left untouched. That's the one thing nobody ever wants touched. Not entirely true. But it is true that of the ppl who want even slight balance changes, they can never seem to agree on what those should be. So, Blizzard would have to make any of those type of changes. The only balance changes should be making scouts either faster or cost 25 minerals less. Any more than that and brood war is no longer the same anymore. This. Making scouts slightly faster would actually be cool imo. they have an upgrade for that
Someone plays with scouts a lot  but for real i had no idea haha. Then yeah make them like 25 minerals cheaper haha
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EPT
