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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On December 20 2016 14:44 ZeroChrome wrote: That looks like it would hurt your eyes after 20 minutes tbh. Yeah even the screenshot. I think colors are really too bright and the whole thing is blurry | ||
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iknowFiRE
Slovenia37 Posts
 and i hardly believe any remastred music is actualy improved, much less sc2 sc1 track remaster. theres a couple more remastred sc1 sounds existing in sc2, did u know, like the probe and protoss announcer are straight from sc1, in my opinion sound worse played side by side. so much for remastering sounds and music if u ask meso the real modding thatd be done here: bugfixes and balance changes then, thats hard, because bugs are prety much considered as features by now and fixing them would have balance implications along with balance changes themselves means an impossible task of ever getting anyone to play this. for example, fixing scarab and goon ai bugs would most certainly have impact, even without any balance changes the community could never agree what balance changes shoudl be done and i dont think theres trust in blizzard to be capable themselves, that time has gone past 15 years ago, but i think most coudl agree not changing anything balance wise, because to be fair, game is balanced right now, there are just a few criminaly underused units and spells. it is fine, although just saying how its already perfect and cant be improved is sad and defeatist. and yes changing just one number could make it a sc2 clusterfuck of balance, more can probably go wrong than right, at least in blizzards hands. the game infact already has all the ingridients in the underused units/spells with existing counters too, but most of them are brought down by various bugs theres also stuff thats just outright bad, like blind and restore, but are they really? imagine if theyd be area spells, restore woudl be nice plague and possible ensnare counter, i doubt it could make bio op, more like balanced. scouts, oh man they are basicly 2 wraiths glued, except they only do 8 ground dmg, despite graphic attack suggesting they have dual attack, why dont they have 2x8, they are also the most microable unit in the game once they get speed upgrade, better than vulture, which is ofcourse never seen. they can never be op cause cors/devour/valk (they got the misle sprite limit bug) counter them hard. why are infested terrans so specific and not buildable, such cool unit, ofc with its own attackmove only working on minimap bug. shiled battery coudl really use some kind of upgrade for the lategame, or even protoss shields way too high upg cost. what about firebats/ghost dmg itself, they got concussive with hardly any reason, firebats with normal dmg under swarm wouldnt kill lings any faster, theyd just not totlay suck vs lurker/ultra, theyd esentialy be a zealot with low hp and gas cost its not so insane. then maybe halucination for 75 energy, nukes not costing supply, devour at lair tech, still needing greater spire would save zvz, or maybe fixed ensnare woudl already do that. all just theorycrafting but its pretty intriguing in any case, ye it might be prety cool to have more start energy on queen/da/ghost, because their default spells are quite weaker than defiler/vessel/ht, so u need to wait on secondary and its just soooo long making these units very hard to utilise while cheapenig their spell costs could just make them op. but ye +50 is way too much, +25. theres also things like dark archon not getting +12 energy at morph bug and ensnare being all over the place in its stats what and how much it slows. ofc to this day i wonder why pros dont use lockdown to lock arbiters, its the perfect counter, better than widely used emp, u lock recaling arbiters, u even disable their cloak when their locked, its brillaint and ghosts are cheap but theres an even bigger perceived problem than all of this, theres always someone who says how bad pathing is, the way it works is bugged by itself, a meme status by now. i mean what should thered be an attempt to fix it? no i dont think its bad, it has flavor, it makes the units feel to occupy space and have presence, unlike the floaty, fluid pathing sc2 has, that is btw imo just as limited, but in all the diffrent areas than sc1 pathing. for instance stuff like movign around minerals/blocked cliffs, units themselves moving out of the way even tho u dont give order, all the units having mandatory damage point delay to firing making micro feel shit, the weird flying unit 3d hitbox, the invisible radar vision that all units got which makes them delay atacks, the stacking of ground units/spreading of air units (exactly reverse of what it is in sc1) etc etc all make sc2 pathing or rather gameplay (i gues its not all strictly pathing) so much worse than baybysitting a few goons if u ask me. and then theres the classic omg 12 unit select limit and no automining or multiple building select. might be true, but it works in an enviroment that is bw perfectly, which again sc2 brining modernity to the hurdles of life just means they then compensated for apm with macro mechanics and they have strong balance impacts to the point of doing harm and limiting the game much more than ui limitations ever could. bottom line is, its so very complex exactly what and how much would be good to fix or change and all wed end up doing is going in circles discussing it. i feel like if u go in this direction might aswell go all out and mod in new units and stuff along with bugfixes and other balance changes. color saturation and music is just extra, anyone can swap those files right now. | ||
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vndestiny
Singapore3438 Posts
On December 22 2016 07:54 thezanursic wrote: Did you read, only vs Biological Air. Which means it has zero impact on ZvT. I also mentioned this might be impossible within the Brood War Engine, but I think if done correctly it would probably make ZvZ a better and more diverse match up. I implore you to actually read the posts you are responding to. I was talking about Kairo's post above not yours... Guess should've directly quoted his then. | ||
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arb
Noobville17920 Posts
On December 22 2016 07:52 vndestiny wrote: Seriously we're even entertaining the thought of tinkering mutalisk match up ? In a way that nerf Zerg mid game Z v T ? Really ? Entertaining the idea of touching any balance in Broodwar what so ever is laughable | ||
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mahnini
United States6862 Posts
On December 22 2016 06:26 thezanursic wrote: 50+ Starting Energy for DA and Queen isn't going to break the game, if you think it is you don't play enough. Also considering that T>Z>P>T, even if the 50+ starting energy somehow made Zerg win 0.5% more versus Terran and Protoss win 0.5% more versus Zerg, I'd call that a job well done. I'm not asking for huge buffs here, I said incrementally, but that was an update soo you might not have read it. what am i even reading right now | ||
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9858 Posts
On December 21 2016 03:51 thezanursic wrote: If I had to change something, I'd buff Dark Archons, Queens and Ghosts a bit, soo that they saw SOME competative play. Those units might as well not exist in the competative sense. Increase starting energy of all those units by 50. Increase Ghosts HP by a bit, don't see this having a negative impact on the game, worst case scenario Queens become legit option in lategame PvZ Personally, I wouldn't mind some kind of test map for some basic changes. I think changing starting energy really defeats the simplicity of BW, all units starting with 50, so I wouldn't go with that. For Dark Archons, small changes to the upgrade costs, increasing the length of maelstrom, or modifying the upgrade cost could make for some interesting gameplay. Queen I wouldn't change too much, potentially stuff like making ensnare longer range, greater aoe... Spawn broodlings is fine I think, maybe 125 energy instead of 150, idk. Ghosts, no idea how I'd change those, but I think it's fairly fine. Either way, I agree that most changes should not be gameplay related. Creating a better platform to play BW on (Shield Battery), and making it HD, adding replay viewer features like rewind (OpenBW), etc... Adding compatibilities with stuff like Spotify and Twitch (MCA64) is the way to go. | ||
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vndestiny
Singapore3438 Posts
On December 24 2016 07:43 arb wrote: Entertaining the idea of touching any balance in Broodwar what so ever is laughable Ok apparently I did not make myself clear. Mutalisk vs x is a very staple but delicate match up, and has swung to Z or the opponents' favor more than a few times. Thus we do not have enough evidence to suggest mutalisk is op or up, therefore should not make rash balance change towards the mutalisk vs x match up. Second of all (regards to my second sentence originally) Zerg mid game vs T is pretty difficult right now, and there's no reason to make it even harder. I was being quite specific please don't generalize my words ;_; | ||
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notgayDragon
142 Posts
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outscar
2831 Posts
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DracoMortuiVolantus
68 Posts
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imp42
398 Posts
On December 25 2016 23:28 DracoMortuiVolantus wrote: i think the only change that would not hurt BW would be increasing resolution twice (make same models have twice more details) so like 1280x960 and announce big BW comeback wolf has satisfied his hunger and the sheep is in one piece :3 This is pretty much the approach we are taking at OpenBW. We settled on making models 4.5x original size and possibly rendering them at 2.25x in standard zoom. | ||
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Piste
6167 Posts
On December 21 2016 03:51 thezanursic wrote: If I had to change something, I'd buff Dark Archons, Queens and Ghosts a bit, soo that they saw SOME competative play. Those units might as well not exist in the competative sense. Increase starting energy of all those units by 50. Increase Ghosts HP by a bit, don't see this having a negative impact on the game, worst case scenario Queens become legit option in lategame PvZ Ive seen DAs and queens used plenty on pro level, ghosts not so much. Mutas would become worthless if DA starting mana would increase this much. Maybe queens starting mana could be increased a bit, but not by 50, that is huge and would cause way too fast broodlings. | ||
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Jealous
10100 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/1193_Bisu_vs_Nal_rA/vod Scout http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/9531_ForGG_vs_Jila/vod Devourer Hive tech ZvZ's Queen Fucking tons of ZvT, with Zerg winning many of them. Also ZvP: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/15747_Bisu_vs_ZerO/vod Also ZvZ (Yellow vs. Jaedong HBR) Please, for all of you aspiring low-level balancers, don't. Each unit already has a place in the game. Not every unit is supposed to be viable in every match-up and in every situation. Change is not necessarily a good thing. Let's focus on the graphics please. Gameplay does NOT need to be changed. | ||
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207aicila
1237 Posts
On December 24 2016 08:12 FiWiFaKi wrote: Personally, I wouldn't mind some kind of test map for some basic changes. I think changing starting energy really defeats the simplicity of BW, all units starting with 50, so I wouldn't go with that. For Dark Archons, small changes to the upgrade costs, increasing the length of maelstrom, or modifying the upgrade cost could make for some interesting gameplay. Queen I wouldn't change too much, potentially stuff like making ensnare longer range, greater aoe... Spawn broodlings is fine I think, maybe 125 energy instead of 150, idk. Ghosts, no idea how I'd change those, but I think it's fairly fine. Either way, I agree that most changes should not be gameplay related. Creating a better platform to play BW on (Shield Battery), and making it HD, adding replay viewer features like rewind (OpenBW), etc... Adding compatibilities with stuff like Spotify and Twitch (MCA64) is the way to go. It's been many years since I've touched any BW mapping tool (StarEdit or SCMDraft) but I'm pretty sure that unlike WC3 and SC2 you can't actually change things like unit energy, energy cost for abilities, research effects, research time etc. Only very basic HP/Shields/Attack (and name). Beyond that you'd need to actually mod the game, create a mod, and have people play on that mod. Basically what I'm getting at is that a "balance test map" with those kinds of changes would be impossible in the super-convenient way that SC2 does it. Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. | ||
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imp42
398 Posts
On December 26 2016 06:02 207aicila wrote: [...]I'm pretty sure that unlike WC3 and SC2 you can't actually change things like unit energy, energy cost for abilities, research effects, research time etc[...] SCM Draft lets you adjust values like research time in the "upgrade settings" and "tech settings" tab (check e.g. "Tech Settings - Zerg - Spawn Broodling - Energy"). But I do indeed not see an option to change starting energy of units. | ||
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lagcats
172 Posts
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RouaF
France4120 Posts
You should post a screenshot of the same things from the original game for side by side comparison. As others have said the colours are really bad. GL. | ||
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imp42
398 Posts
On December 26 2016 20:43 RouaF wrote: Funny how this thread evolved into a walls-of-text-balance-crap-battle. When it was clearly about graphics... You should post a screenshot of the same things from the original game for side by side comparison. As others have said the colours are really bad. GL. Funny how you did not even read the OP. Let me quote it for your convenience: 4. slight game balance change So, what do you think? | ||
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RouaF
France4120 Posts
On December 26 2016 21:56 imp42 wrote: Funny how you did not even read the OP. Let me quote it for your convenience: Oh I did read it and saw that. Don't think it deserved so much pointless discussion when it wasn't the main point . Balance changes in BW is a dead horse deader than dead. I thought my post was pretty clear sorry if it wasn't. | ||
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EPT
but for real i had no idea haha. Then yeah make them like 25 minerals cheaper haha
