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Osaka27159 Posts
Is the military infiltrating pro gaming?
A little bird whispered this in my ear recently, and now it seems like the trickle of information will soon be a flood. As we all know, many progamers leave their teams to serve their mandatory military service. Several of these progamers have entered the air force division, and it looks like their absence from the pro scene will be shorter than expected.
Clon, Chrh, and HOT are all rumoured to be part of an air force pro-team that will participate in various live events. The structure of the team, as well their schedule of games has not been released, but already it is confirmed that Chrh will be taking part in the OSL qualifications for the next season. The proleague is the obvious next step.
Of course, one of the biggest questions of this development would be the status of Boxer. Any team the air force puts together would be immediately enhanced with his participation. However, unlike his military companions, he is still a member of a proteam; SKTelecom. How would that work out? Would a possible rematch between Boxer and Iloveoov be possible in the proleague? The possibilities are titilating.
For now this is mostly speculation, as the English world is often slow to get facts on the latest developments. If any of our Korean sources have more information, it would be greatly appreciated.
Mani.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina1381 Posts
I want to see a AirForce vs Army showmatch.
HOT vs BoxeR!
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Awesome!
Thanks mani, great inside info  <3
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Wow! This does sound interesting .
But won't they suck since they would not be able to practice as much as the other teams?
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On November 14 2006 19:23 to miss the mark wrote:
I want to see a AirForce vs Army showmatch.
HOT vs BoxeR!
I thought Boxer was going into the airforce?
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heh, do they play w/ live ammunition on a practice field? b/c i think boxer's air has an imbalance vs the ground troops.
p.s, this would be really cool to see boxer playing again.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
=o
didnt boxer say he was going to specialise in "gaming" while he was in the airforce??
interesting... this could be true
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Their strength would be the steel mentality of armymen
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This would kind of be like the Navy and Army have American football teams here... except wouldn't this encourage gaming in the military?
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is awesome32277 Posts
Well, they dont have to think of progaming uniforms, do they? 
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i think it is a good move from the airforce. instead of making it seem like 2years of mandatory grudge bitch work. young'sters can see that there is still hope in doing what do still love to do even if you are in the military services.
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This is great news Mani..........it'd be great if we can see players such as Boxer and HOT back again in the proleague.....I'm so excited!(especially about the fact that Boxer could be coming back sooner than expected)
Boxer vs iloveOOv rematch would be awesome...haha
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This is awesome, the airforce team would prolly make really cool uniforms.
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Physician
United States4146 Posts
man.. let me find an old news of mine..
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
I doubt this will ever come to be. A nice fantasy though. Those guys cannot play THAT much. Nowhere it is on par with the regular pros.. it would be a slaughter.
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Physician
United States4146 Posts
They are not rumors.
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Jung Sung-ki, Staff Reporter at The Korean Times just posted a short news post that on an initial glance gives all the impression of being an April fools joke, with one caveat though, the article's date is 3-21-06.
Apparently the South Korean Air force will be recruiting e-Sports athletes, specifically, ProGamers as support personnel for the development of war-simulation programs starting next month. This all comes from an official press release by the South Korean Air force. They will limit the quote and only five such positions will be available.
What exact function will they be carrying out? Well even though they have given them interesting titles it all boils down to beta-testing. "The gamers will take part in the development of the Air Force's aviation simulation programs and war-game simulations as program testers. They can join domestic e-sports festivals but are not allowed to receive prize money."
South Korean Air force wants StarCraft ProGamers!
First Lieutenant Park Seung-yup of the Defense Ministry's public affairs office told The Korea Times that, "generally, professional gamers are very skilled in dealing with computer-related things. We're sure their capabilities will produce a substantial synergy effect for the military's online programs.''
They will of course have to do a four-week basic military training course but the first five such positions will be starting their duties June this year at the South Korean Air Force's headquarters in South Chungchong Province. It is not surprise that Andrew Seong, a spokesman for the Korea e-Sports Association, hailed the decision as "a great opportunity for pro-gamers to contribute their special abilities to the country.''
So it seems that the US Air force trend has caught on in other parts of the world. Who knows, maybe next time it will be the German Luftwaffe.
Links to more information & sources
Article by Entropy @ http://sc.gosugamers.net/news.php?id=4074
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"A little bird whispered this in my ear recently"
Maybe little bird read same news paper. » Times.Hankooki.coml - The Korean Times.
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Wow that would be a sight to see...
On an off note I've always wondered what it would be like if AMD/Intel/MS or other bigname companies decided all the sudden to sponsor pro SC teams... Team Exxon LOL 
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Man, that would be so awesome.
We can only hope heh
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Boxer playing again, that would be awesome.
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I mean this in seriousness: how would Starcraft progamers help design war simulations?
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The world may find that news article absurd because they don't realize the extreme skill of these progamers, but it makes sense to me. These people can click buttons very fast, so why not have them do it if its their most specialized skill.
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could be a decent ad campaign for the air force too~ attract kids into it even though they are required it wouldn't be seen as that anymore ~~ just kindof gets the word out
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is awesome32277 Posts
On November 14 2006 21:01 Myrmidon wrote:
I mean this in seriousness: how would Starcraft progamers help design war simulations?
Glitch/bug detecting. They can be like beta testers.
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MyLostTemple
United States2921 Posts
On November 14 2006 21:01 Myrmidon wrote:
I mean this in seriousness: how would Starcraft progamers help design war simulations?
I mean this in seriousness back: your an idiot
they're easily some of the best stratigic minds in the world
WHAT DO U THINK?
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On November 14 2006 21:17 thedeadhaji wrote:
I dont know... I feel like their knowledge is very specific to starcraft, and the great deal of experience they have in any situation they are thrown at them in that particular game.(
Not really, there is a great deal of skills progaming equips you with. Think about it, bluffing, guessing your opponent, reflexes, intuition,etc. Starcraft isn't just a game of who can click the mouse faster.
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On November 14 2006 20:37 Dexxus wrote:Wow that would be a sight to see... On an off note I've always wondered what it would be like if AMD/Intel/MS or other bigname companies decided all the sudden to sponsor pro SC teams... Team Exxon LOL
AMD had a team and Samsung has one right now. Coca Cola and Pringles have hosted Starleagues. I would say there are some big(ish) companies involved allready.
edit: mmm.. cola+pringles ...mmm 
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Today we talk about the germans blitzkrieg strategy, our Grand Kids will be talking about the Korean BBS.
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On November 14 2006 21:38 Amnesty wrote:
Today we talk about the germans blitzkrieg strategy, our Grand Kids will be talking about the Korean BBS.
hahaha
it'd be cool to see an airforce team compete, though it'd never win, though maybe against skt1 or ktf
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On November 14 2006 21:05 IntoTheWow wrote:
Glitch/bug detecting. They can be like beta testers.
Yeah, but I think you have other people more experienced as beta testers. You know, professionals at beta testing, not at gaming. Being experienced and fast with a mouse has little to do with methodically testing all of the possibilities.
On November 14 2006 21:11 MyLostTemple wrote:
they're easily some of the best stratigic minds in the world
Starcraft strategy is highly unlike military strategy in many ways, I'd think (could be very wrong though, as I have no military experience). And wouldn't commanding officers know warfare better than progamers?
Starcraft skills may allow progamers to become better at the simulators faster, maybe, but that doesn't help the military design them in the first place. Progamers probably can't code AI or even think of what it should do (or anything related to graphics, etc. of development), discuss the probability for certain field actions to take place, devise scenarios, and the like. They might be able to grasp what interface is optimal for the simulator, but the goal is to be true to reality, right?
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Anyone who is good at Starcraft knows that they are ganna kick some ass.
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Why dont we let the best people at starcraft in any country lead their countrys military since they are obviously the best strategic minds. I have replays as proof!
Seriously I think this is more of a PR stunt from the airforce. If they are going to test an aviation simulater program who is best? Is it the real fighter pilots or the 2d starcraft warriors? But it's cool if they let progamers practice some while they do their duty so they dont rust as much when they come back.
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On November 14 2006 22:35 Pistasj wrote:
Why dont we let the best people at starcraft in any country lead their countrys military since they are obviously the best strategic minds. I have replays as proof!
Seriously I think this is more of a PR stunt from the airforce. If they are going to test an aviation simulater program who is best? Is it the real fighter pilots or the 2d starcraft warriors? But it's cool if they let progamers practice some while they do their duty so they dont rust as much when they come back.
I agree that it is a PR stunt. But I also don't think that mutually excludes it as a good justification. Starcraft DOES involve a great deal of strategy, just as Sun Tzu's Art of War. The author never fought a battle in his life, he certainly never worked on Wall Street. Why do stockbrokers and generals all read his book then? The analogy is the same.
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United States20661 Posts
On November 14 2006 22:49 KissBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2006 22:35 Pistasj wrote:
Why dont we let the best people at starcraft in any country lead their countrys military since they are obviously the best strategic minds. I have replays as proof!
Seriously I think this is more of a PR stunt from the airforce. If they are going to test an aviation simulater program who is best? Is it the real fighter pilots or the 2d starcraft warriors? But it's cool if they let progamers practice some while they do their duty so they dont rust as much when they come back. I agree that it is a PR stunt. But I also don't think that mutually excludes it as a good justification. Starcraft DOES involve a great deal of strategy, just as Sun Tzu's Art of War. The author never fought a battle in his life, he certainly never worked on Wall Street. Why do stockbrokers and generals all read his book then? The analogy is the same.
Sun Tzu was a Wu general... Never fought battle in his life? oO?
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HonestTea
5007 Posts
Here's a post I made in another thread.
The Korean army has special platoons for athletes, so they can maintain their training while completing their mandatory service. For example, a baseball player will eventually go to the Army's baseball team during his career. He still has to lose two year's worth of salary, and the training in the army is nothing like what they can do at pro teams, but it's still better than nothing.
Recently, the Air Force has introduced a similar program for progamers. Apparantly the gamers help out with computer related stuff, and they also get to train for gaming.
Chrh's name is on the MSL and OSL preliminary brackets, so he might be able to play in an individual league (as long as he makes it - which he won't).
Boxer will also be assigned to the Air Force's progaming unit after completing basic training. So we may be able to see him in individual leagues (but as part of the Air Force's team, not SKT)
In my opinion, the whole air force progaming team idea is 50% an extension of existing programs for pro athletes, and 50% a publicity stunt for the image of the army
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You guys are all wrong.
Think about it. Special air force unit, impending doom (North Korea), five young lads with infinite potential, war simulator.
+ Show Spoiler +
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I'd just like to add my perspective on this issue, since, like South Korea, Singapore has mandatory military service (in fact, I'm heading for 3 weeks of reservist training starting tomorrow).
With regards to army pro gaming teams: The Singapore Army has its own sports unit. The recruits in this unit were national champions or highly skilled athletes when they joined the army. After completing three months of mandatory Basic Military training (how to hold a rifle etc.) they spend the rest of their service playing the sports that they specialised in full time. The army fields these athletes in national and international competitions. The rationale is that they can keep in shape in the army, and upon leaving the army can go on to play sports for the country. If they had to do the usual army stuff, they would not be able to pick the sport up again, which would lead to a dearth of sportsmen.
With regards to Starcraft and military simulations: I have FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE in this. The Singapore army, like most armies, uses computer simulations to train its officers. It's cheaper than sending men out into the field. The only thing is that AI is never advanced enough to put up a good fight. So they grab a bunch of privates and corporals and tell them to play the "enemy".
Well, in every single wargame I have played, the corporals and privates DESTROY the officers in the war simulations. Why? because they play computer games. For instance, the officers would only use the recce units to scout. The privates would grab the cheapest unit they could find (supply truck) and have one of them just drive around enemy fortifications. Basic computer gaming strategy. Thus, they'd scout faster. not only that, but the officers would be completely stunned by the truck. They'd immediately order their artillery and other units to fire on it, thus giving away their positions. Nobody who was familiar with stop lurkers, or any burrowed units, would ever make a mistake like that.
The privates' basic strategy was also much better than the officers'. Concepts such as seizing the middle ground, analysing terrain and knowing instantly where the important areas were all came naturally to us. To give an example, in the recent Savior vs Ra game, Savior seized the middle ground so that Ra's troops were forced to go the long way round. That's something we did too.
Then there were the bugs. The officers would set up barbed wire along the coast and sit tight behind their fortifications. Unfortunately, all the privates, being savvy gamers, immediately zoomed in to the fortifications to take a closer look. And discovered that unless the barbed wire was set up at high magnification, there would be small but exploitable gaps in the barbed wire. Before they knew it, the officers were overun (again!)
I could go on and on about the embarrassing defeats the officers suffered at our hands, but the point is that playing Starcraft does show a high level of strategic thinking, it's not just game specific; and that playing Starcraft does equip someone to help to debug military simulations.
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On November 14 2006 21:17 thedeadhaji wrote:I dont know... I feel like their knowledge is very specific to starcraft, and the great deal of experience they have in any situation they are thrown at them in that particular game. I really dont know how good their general aptitude for "computer related things" (as the article says) really is, considering Boxer himself said once that Garimto installed some stuff on his computer and he had no idea what in the world it was, etc. If anything I think the merit is in the fact that they are accustomed to absorbing such material, and it is not a foreign medium to them. I think a more serious thing is that this gaming festival participation is unfair to the other cadets who do not have such indulgences to occupy themselves with 
Agreed, they think too much of progamers...it's almost ridiculous.
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On November 14 2006 21:22 KissBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2006 21:17 thedeadhaji wrote:
I dont know... I feel like their knowledge is very specific to starcraft, and the great deal of experience they have in any situation they are thrown at them in that particular game.( Not really, there is a great deal of skills progaming equips you with. Think about it, bluffing, guessing your opponent, reflexes, intuition,etc. Starcraft isn't just a game of who can click the mouse faster.
Agreed.
I remember a old gamer's interview who turned into poker. He said that good SC gamers do well in poker cause it need the same hability to react quickly, to make the good decisions etc...
Starcraft is not only a E sport. It s a mind sport too.
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yakii
Korea (South)1448 Posts
I read some articles about air force's pro-team days ago, but I couldn't find any official announcements at ROKAF home page yet. If air-force make a pro-team and boxer is in, he should play against other teams even it's SK T1 because he isn't not a civilian but a soldier now. It'll make me very exiting if boxer play against iloveoov or Kingdom.
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yakii
Korea (South)1448 Posts
BTW, I also read article from economic news paper that some stock trading comapany hired 2 former progamers as a day-trader and they showed good result - they earned 3.5 million USD with 10 million USD - because of they can watch monitor 10 hours keeping concentration, click faster with precise and has abilities to make the good decisions. After their great success, other stock company requested to E-sports Association more good progamer to hire as a day-trader. This showes us that Pro-gamer can be used for other economic perposes after they retires.
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On November 14 2006 19:23 to miss the mark wrote:
I want to see a AirForce vs Army showmatch.
HOT vs BoxeR!
Johnny Rico Vs Zander =D
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Im so amazed of the Korean (Asian) mentality. How they just embrase eSports and such even in their military. Imagine if it was, for example, the Swedish, German or US Army. Tell them you wanna play eSports and they'd beat every bit and byte out of you.
About the part of the Korea Air Force participating in the Leagues. If thats true, I hope SKT T1 let Boxer play for Air Force even if they could stop him, since he still a SKT T1 member.
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On November 15 2006 04:12 gameguard wrote:You guys are all wrong. Think about it. Special air force unit, impending doom (North Korea), five young lads with infinite potential, war simulator. + Show Spoiler +
hahaha that's EXACTLY what i thought!
as so many people have said before... this is boxer's game! especially against the bugger race, hehe.
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On November 14 2006 23:15 Last Romantic wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2006 22:49 KissBlade wrote:On November 14 2006 22:35 Pistasj wrote:
Why dont we let the best people at starcraft in any country lead their countrys military since they are obviously the best strategic minds. I have replays as proof!
Seriously I think this is more of a PR stunt from the airforce. If they are going to test an aviation simulater program who is best? Is it the real fighter pilots or the 2d starcraft warriors? But it's cool if they let progamers practice some while they do their duty so they dont rust as much when they come back. I agree that it is a PR stunt. But I also don't think that mutually excludes it as a good justification. Starcraft DOES involve a great deal of strategy, just as Sun Tzu's Art of War. The author never fought a battle in his life, he certainly never worked on Wall Street. Why do stockbrokers and generals all read his book then? The analogy is the same. Sun Tzu was a Wu general... Never fought battle in his life? oO?
You have it confused. There were descendants of the Sun clan that were Wu generals. And actually even their claims weren't 100%, as I believe they weren't a direct line. I'm assuming you're referring to Sun Jian with this one.
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boxer can't be stopped now! gogo terran emporer!
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On November 15 2006 08:22 psychosis wrote:
Im so amazed of the Korean (Asian) mentality. How they just embrase eSports and such even in their military. Imagine if it was, for example, the Swedish, German or US Army. Tell them you wanna play eSports and they'd beat every bit and byte out of you.
About the part of the Korea Air Force participating in the Leagues. If thats true, I hope SKT T1 let Boxer play for Air Force even if they could stop him, since he still a SKT T1 member.
I don't think this would be an issue. If push comes to shove the Korean Air Force would just say that while pro gamers are doing military service they can only play for the Air Force's pro team.
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On November 15 2006 10:53 KissBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2006 23:15 Last Romantic wrote:On November 14 2006 22:49 KissBlade wrote:On November 14 2006 22:35 Pistasj wrote:
Why dont we let the best people at starcraft in any country lead their countrys military since they are obviously the best strategic minds. I have replays as proof!
Seriously I think this is more of a PR stunt from the airforce. If they are going to test an aviation simulater program who is best? Is it the real fighter pilots or the 2d starcraft warriors? But it's cool if they let progamers practice some while they do their duty so they dont rust as much when they come back. I agree that it is a PR stunt. But I also don't think that mutually excludes it as a good justification. Starcraft DOES involve a great deal of strategy, just as Sun Tzu's Art of War. The author never fought a battle in his life, he certainly never worked on Wall Street. Why do stockbrokers and generals all read his book then? The analogy is the same. Sun Tzu was a Wu general... Never fought battle in his life? oO? You have it confused. There were descendants of the Sun clan that were Wu generals. And actually even their claims weren't 100%, as I believe they weren't a direct line. I'm assuming you're referring to Sun Jian with this one.
Actually, you have it confused.
Sun Tzu was a mercenary.
You really shouldn't go around acting like an expert in fields you know nothing about, okay Sun Ji... KissBlade?
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United States20661 Posts
On November 15 2006 10:53 KissBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2006 23:15 Last Romantic wrote:On November 14 2006 22:49 KissBlade wrote:On November 14 2006 22:35 Pistasj wrote:
Why dont we let the best people at starcraft in any country lead their countrys military since they are obviously the best strategic minds. I have replays as proof!
Seriously I think this is more of a PR stunt from the airforce. If they are going to test an aviation simulater program who is best? Is it the real fighter pilots or the 2d starcraft warriors? But it's cool if they let progamers practice some while they do their duty so they dont rust as much when they come back. I agree that it is a PR stunt. But I also don't think that mutually excludes it as a good justification. Starcraft DOES involve a great deal of strategy, just as Sun Tzu's Art of War. The author never fought a battle in his life, he certainly never worked on Wall Street. Why do stockbrokers and generals all read his book then? The analogy is the same. Sun Tzu was a Wu general... Never fought battle in his life? oO? You have it confused. There were descendants of the Sun clan that were Wu generals. And actually even their claims weren't 100%, as I believe they weren't a direct line. I'm assuming you're referring to Sun Jian with this one.
I'm referring to the mercenary Sun Tzu, who wrote sun zi bing fa --;; Hired by Wu, which is why I call him a Wu general. IIRC, he did participate in a few battles.
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nice, that sounds pretty good for the pro gamers that head into the army. however pretty sad for everyone else from korea who have to do the army service.
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Physician
United States4146 Posts
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Hey, it's ChRh 
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.yellowchrome.org/1com/ggnet/airforcesk.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.bwtimes.net/bbs/data/chamchi/1152846785/%C3%D6%C0%CE%B1%D4.jpg)
