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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On December 03 2013 16:22 sabas123 wrote: wait kespa took the prizemoney of players?0_o unless I'm mistaken, he means the teams got the prize money so you won but the team won? lol. Someone correct me if I'm wrong please lol. | ||
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Djabanete
United States2786 Posts
On December 03 2013 15:40 Rekrul wrote: Owners of a full fledged zoo decided to replace it with a shitty petting zoo. Right before the demolition and remodeling a lion named Leo broke out of it's cage and mauled a bunch of people. Now everyone who misses the real animals blames Leo for the fact that the best they are going to get is a miniature donkey. #freeLeo Never thought I'd say this about a Rekrul post, but ... Yes, exactly. Thank you. | ||
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riyanme
Philippines940 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=226236 he is the god of zerg... | ||
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GhoSt[shield]
Canada2131 Posts
On December 03 2013 15:40 Rekrul wrote: Owners of a full fledged zoo decided to replace it with a shitty petting zoo. Right before the demolition and remodeling a lion named Leo broke out of it's cage and mauled a bunch of people. Now everyone who misses the real animals blames Leo for the fact that the best they are going to get is a miniature donkey. #freeLeo Probably analogy i've ever read | ||
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Lachrymose
Australia1928 Posts
That he says "That's how the world is" makes it sound strongly like something he is bitter about, not something he supports. | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On December 03 2013 18:02 Lachrymose wrote: That he says "That's how the world is" makes it sound strongly like something he is bitter about, not something he supports. I've always wanted to know what was the reason for his outburst. Considering that he was once a part of KeSPA before the matchfixing scandal, he obviously knew how to handle himself publicly and such so why is it that on that date, he went out and said that BW is dead. That's how the world is. How much longer can we play 2D games? Is that his opinion or is he frustrated about something? Probably hard to tell but seen this argument come up a lot and it's made me curious. | ||
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Elroi
Sweden5617 Posts
On December 03 2013 15:40 Rekrul wrote: Owners of a full fledged zoo decided to replace it with a shitty petting zoo. Right before the demolition and remodeling a lion named Leo broke out of it's cage and mauled a bunch of people. Now everyone who misses the real animals blames Leo for the fact that the best they are going to get is a miniature donkey. #freeLeo So true. | ||
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Stratos
Czech Republic6104 Posts
On December 03 2013 15:40 Rekrul wrote: Owners of a full fledged zoo decided to replace it with a shitty petting zoo. Right before the demolition and remodeling a lion named Leo broke out of it's cage and mauled a bunch of people. Now everyone who misses the real animals blames Leo for the fact that the best they are going to get is a miniature donkey. #freeLeo Analogy may be good or not but you (and most of other savior's defendants) like to completely overlook the fact that regardless of whether he deserves another shot or not, he is not much of a benefit to the overall BW scene. It looks like he's somewhat beneficial to the Chinese scene, but his presence divides our community, it divides the Chinese and Korean BW communities (Sonic requesting them to not allow Savior in, them telling him to fuck off, him telling them he won't allow Chinese players in SoSPA). It makes the afreeca scene look bad as well as the players who are under weird circumstances almost forced to participate in tourneys together with Savior (Movie turning down the invitation, then accepting when Savior didn't qualify, but then Savior gets invited anyway). All this is going on just when SoSPA is trying to acquire new sponsors for ex-SPL teams and new SSL. I can understand people wanting him to get another chance. But there's more to consider. Does he deserve another chance at the expense of what remains of the scene he in one way or another harmed? Who do you support in this, Savior or Sonic? Mind you, we know Sonic did ask his viewers if they'd allow Savior in SoSPA before so it's not like he did what he did in some kind of outburst of butthurt or whatever. China cooperating with SoSPA would be the best thing ever to happen to SoSPA but Savior's participation made this much less real due to the atmosphere in Korea regarding savior. If we could finally stop discussing whether savior deserves this or that, be rational and look at the bigger picture and judge whether he's beneficial to the scene or not NOW, there would be much less arguing. If someone wants to question whatever I stated above it would be nice to see someone finally do it instead of disappearing from the discussion. The problem is most Savior's defendants don't follow the scene too thoroughly so all they have to share are their moral stands on whatever savior deserves. That's a very short-sited approach to the issue since it doesn't reflect that Savior's return isn't just about him. | ||
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ninazerg
United States7291 Posts
Kespa: STOP! NO MEANS NO! | ||
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JimmyHollow
United Kingdom249 Posts
And im more than sure that Blizzard and KESPA cant do shit if that happened in China. | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On December 03 2013 19:03 Stratos wrote: If we could finally stop discussing whether savior deserves this or that, be rational and look at the bigger picture and judge whether he's beneficial to the scene or not NOW, there would be much less arguing. If someone wants to question whatever I stated above it would be nice to see someone finally do it instead of disappearing from the discussion. The problem is most Savior's defendants don't follow the scene too thoroughly so all they have to share are their moral stands on whatever savior deserves. That's a very short-sited approach to the issue since it doesn't reflect that Savior's return isn't just about him. Then stop arguing. What harms the scene is people who are hell-bent on vilification of a single guy and use him as a scapegoat for everything that went wrong with the Brood War scene, no matter how unreasonable or irrational that sentiment is to begin with. Sponsors don't give a shit about Savior or what he's done, they only give a shit about popular opinion - as any company would, anywhere in the world. If people stopped continuously escalating an incident from half a decade ago and bringing it into focus every time the guy shows up anywhere, there would be nothing to divide the community or scare away potential sponsors. | ||
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Lysteria
France2280 Posts
He sure has fucked up somewhere in his life, but he makes a good scapegoat for everything happening to BW. | ||
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Stratos
Czech Republic6104 Posts
On December 03 2013 20:28 Talin wrote: Then stop arguing. What harms the scene is people who are hell-bent on vilification of a single guy and use him as a scapegoat for everything that went wrong with the Brood War scene, no matter how unreasonable or irrational that sentiment is to begin with. Sponsors don't give a shit about Savior or what he's done, they only give a shit about popular opinion - as any company would, anywhere in the world. If people stopped continuously escalating an incident from half a decade ago and bringing it into focus every time the guy shows up anywhere, there would be nothing to divide the community or scare away potential sponsors. The role of our scene in all this is pretty irrelevant. Korea's perception of savior is relevant, and it is clear that it is not changing, certainly not after this whole affair. Yeah sponsors give a shit about popular opinion, which is that afreeca streaming is for criminals. Guess why that is. I'm not personally hating on the guy but it pains me to see people completely ignore the fact that Korean BW scene still exists and with it come circumstances to consider, that should not be disregarded as lightly as you just did. IMO. | ||
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thezanursic
5500 Posts
On December 03 2013 15:40 Rekrul wrote: Owners of a full fledged zoo decided to replace it with a shitty petting zoo. Right before the demolition and remodeling a lion named Leo broke out of it's cage and mauled a bunch of people. Now everyone who misses the real animals blames Leo for the fact that the best they are going to get is a miniature donkey. #freeLeo So the owners of the newly shitty petting zoo are suing a national park for letting the lion go free within its borders and are demanding an execution? | ||
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oBlade
United States6366 Posts
On December 03 2013 13:45 lemmata wrote: First of all, bookies never lose. They put a "vig" on the odds for both sides so that they never lose money. Also, the line between degenerate bettors and skilled gamblers is how much they win. You might say that some people who would have been skilled gamblers/odds-makers were turned into degenerate gamblers by Savior altering the odds without their knowledge. You seem to be suggesting that Savior's sins are somehow lightened because he made money off of bad people, but he didn't make money off of bookies, who are usually the bad people in the gambling world. Their is nothing morally wrong with gambling itself. I'm sure this gambling 101 was enlightening for Rekrul. On December 03 2013 08:47 Fuchsteufelswild wrote: I can only side with attempting to stop SAviOr, Luxury and any others like that from participating in official leagues, including outside of Korea. They were intended to be banned from "eSports" on the whole, right? At least stopping them from being involved in anything related to StarCraft, let alone with HUGE PRIZEPOOLS is very much justified. The passive voice doesn't make great sense here. They were intended to be banned from eSports, maybe, by who? A couple of organizations (KeSPA and then GOM). These few organizations are not the dear leaders of eSports. Maybe they would like to see him banned from any tournaments ever, but it's not their job and they have no say in it. I mean, KeSPA could have intended to cremate savior and launch his ashes to the moon, that doesn't mean they can whine to Blizzard that NASA won't give them a free missile to use for savior. It's not KeSPA's business. On December 03 2013 03:04 L_Master wrote: 1) The guy never did any "time". As soon as he was kicked out he started afreeca streaming and continued making money. Moreover, BW was ended shortly after he was banned, so it's not like he has been banned from KeSPA events for that long. Moreover, most sports bans for violations are lengthy: 2-4+ years is not at all uncommon. Afreeca is not a tournament and it is not run by KeSPA. KeSPA BW continued for roughly 2 years after savior was banned (which is about the same length of time as his probation). And anyways, he was banned for life, so he really has been banned from GOM and KeSPA for that long. He can't play any game at all for either of these organizations, FOREVER. 2) Much more importantly, the guy has no fucking remorse at all. He has literally not even apologized for matchfixing. He is sorry...that he got caught. I really don't think he has any issues with what he actually did. In addition to not apologizing he has taken actions that are directly harmful to BW (streaming on Afreeca, which has directly decreased the credibility of other Afreeca streams; if this doesn't make sense, see iloveoov comments) as well as bashed BW saying something like "only idiots play 2D games in this day and age". Firstly, even if this wasn't irrelevant, it's mind-reading, and I don't believe you can do it. You do not know what's in savior's brain, remorse or otherwise. Savior apologized, of course you might not believe it or whatever, but you could say that no matter what savior says. That's why he apologized once and doesn't talk about it anymore. He's not going to win people over who are only looking for confirmation bias like "Aha, he apologized but I can tell it wasn't sincere so I hate him even more!" And if you have a problem with something iloveoov said, take it up with iloveoov, I doubt savior was pointing a gun at his head. I'm for second chances (except for doping in athletics...but that is for another day). However, I have NO reason to believe Savior has changed whatsoever. Let him back in, and chances are he will go right back to matchfixing if the opportunity presented itself. If Savior had prostrated himself with apology, left BW alone for a while and generally been remorseful and was just now asking to return...I could see myself considering it. Please demonstrate how you know what the chances are. What happened to savior's old contacts? What would make him think he wouldn't get caught this time? What do you think the punishment would be the second time he went to trial for matchfixing? Why would he risk that? Don't forget that saviors reputation is tarnished, and his return will make it MUCH more difficult to attract sponsors and establish a good reputation for BW. Even if you blindy love savior, I think you have to ask yourself is it worth it to bring this guy back, knowing that just his presence is likely to prevent, or even reverse, the progress that has been made in the last year? Earlier you said he never did any time, now you are talking about his return, pick one. People have been saying for a decade that something or other will fuck up the scene. Savior has been a presence in the community since his ban and we still seem to have a BW scene. So it's hard for me to take this as anything besides crying wolf. | ||
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lemmata
468 Posts
On December 03 2013 15:40 Rekrul wrote: Owners of a full fledged zoo decided to replace it with a shitty petting zoo. Right before the demolition and remodeling a lion named Leo broke out of it's cage and mauled a bunch of people. Now everyone who misses the real animals blames Leo for the fact that the best they are going to get is a miniature donkey. #freeLeo This constant misdirection is super annoying. It's not about the blame game for fuck's sake. It's about whether a convicted match-fixer's presence is harmful to the credibility of the game. Why do Savior's defenders ignore the fucking point no matter how many times it is reiterated? They're all too clever by a half. Let's not pretend that bringing back Leo doesn't make the zoo very trustworthy when we drop the stupid animal metaphor and recognize the Leo is a human being that acts purposefully. It almost makes me feel that they're just trolling and enjoying the reaction. *ALMOST*. I give up. I put my hands up. Crazies win. The rational people are too exasperated. | ||
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doubleupgradeobbies!
Australia1353 Posts
On December 03 2013 15:40 Rekrul wrote: Owners of a full fledged zoo decided to replace it with a shitty petting zoo. Right before the demolition and remodeling a lion named Leo broke out of it's cage and mauled a bunch of people. Now everyone who misses the real animals blames Leo for the fact that the best they are going to get is a miniature donkey. #freeLeo Except that Leo's little incident where he acquainted a number of people with his teeth was a part of what damaged the "full fledged zoo's" public reputation, which led to falling ticket sales, and eventually, at least indirectly, to the decision to 'transition' to the shitty petting zoo. It seems not irrational, in that circumstance, to hold Leo for being, at least partially, responsible for only getting a miniature donkey. And may be insensitive to those people who were mauled, and to the other animals in the zoo that were put down as a result of the closure to continue displaying Leo at other, smaller zoos. So the request to other zoos to not display Leo (or maybe put him down) doesn't seem so unreasonable in that context. That and also, lions maul people if improperly contained. Lions as any predators are driven by biological and evolutionary imperative, mauling other animals is kinda their thing. Savior, on the other hand, is just a scumbag. Match fixing isn't an irrepressible response or biological imperative, it's just a horrible thing to choose to do, so the analogy kinda falls apart. | ||
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zeo
Serbia6343 Posts
On December 03 2013 21:04 lemmata wrote: This constant misdirection is super annoying. It's not about the blame game for fuck's sake. It's about whether a convicted match-fixer's presence is harmful to the credibility of the game. Why do Savior's defenders ignore the fucking point no matter how many times it is reiterated? They're all too clever by a half. Let's not pretend that bringing back Leo doesn't make the zoo very trustworthy when we drop the stupid animal metaphor and recognize the Leo is a human being that acts purposefully. It almost makes me feel that they're just trolling and enjoying the reaction. *ALMOST*. I give up. I put my hands up. Crazies win. The rational people are too exasperated. The topic is 'whether Blizzard or Kespa have the right to interfere in the Chinese BW scene'. The answer is no. | ||
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perfidiusrex
Belgium78 Posts
On December 03 2013 21:34 zeo wrote: The topic is 'whether Blizzard or Kespa have the right to interfere in the Chinese BW scene'. The answer is no. in general blizzard owns exclusive rights to all their ip.if blizzard doesnt want you to use one of their games in a tournamnet they can forbid it immediately. | ||
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shaftofpleasure
Korea (North)1375 Posts
It was Super Effective. | ||
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