EPTBW General Discussion - Page 355
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sypsyp
6 Posts
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TaLIfy
17 Posts
I'm interested in discussing the BW story. Is there any critical analysis of the BW story? I can't find any thru google and that's concerning to me. There's lot of analysis of SC2, but none for SC1. I've reviewed SC1's story in the past and found things that I would consider plot contrivances and bad writing, but I wanted to know what other people thought. | ||
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Jealous
10403 Posts
On July 25 2020 08:53 TaLIfy wrote: Hi there. I'm interested in discussing the BW story. Is there any critical analysis of the BW story? I can't find any thru google and that's concerning to me. There's lot of analysis of SC2, but none for SC1. I've reviewed SC1's story in the past and found things that I would consider plot contrivances and bad writing, but I wanted to know what other people thought. Gaming magazines from that era would be at least surface level starting points. PC Gamer for example. A lot of more contemporary works just compare it to SC2 and say that BW is better and SC2 sucks/is sexist/is bland because a, b, c, etc. | ||
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TaLIfy
17 Posts
On July 25 2020 09:11 Jealous wrote: Gaming magazines from that era would be at least surface level starting points. PC Gamer for example. A lot of more contemporary works just compare it to SC2 and say that BW is better and SC2 sucks/is sexist/is bland because a, b, c, etc. I don't have any copies of gaming magazines from that era. I don't think there was a lot of analysis of game stories back then either. I see a lot of gamers saying that SC1 is the pinnacle of storytelling. After reviewing it myself, I do not agree with that assessment. Let's try a thought experiment. Review the plot of SC1 and try to poke as many holes in it as you can. Want to? | ||
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Jealous
10403 Posts
On July 25 2020 09:31 TaLIfy wrote: I don't have any copies of gaming magazines from that era. I don't think there was a lot of analysis of game stories back then either. I see a lot of gamers saying that SC1 is the pinnacle of storytelling. After reviewing it myself, I do not agree with that assessment. Let's try a thought experiment. Review the plot of SC1 and try to poke as many holes in it as you can. Want to? Sorry, not my personal cup of tea. You can find old issues of gaming magazines online I am fairly sure. | ||
thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
On July 21 2020 18:44 Highgamer wrote: Do they actually cut out the SWEAT in the US? I get that that might be wise to not gross out customers, but that would take out a lot of the swag of the brand, I find... I wonder if there's a chance that they'll advertise it with Flash, in gaming contexts or s.th. Ah the good old days of getting incredulous looks in school for drinking SWEAT. | ||
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tslStrange
36 Posts
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puppykiller
United States3137 Posts
On July 25 2020 09:31 TaLIfy wrote: I don't have any copies of gaming magazines from that era. I don't think there was a lot of analysis of game stories back then either. I see a lot of gamers saying that SC1 is the pinnacle of storytelling. After reviewing it myself, I do not agree with that assessment. Let's try a thought experiment. Review the plot of SC1 and try to poke as many holes in it as you can. Want to? I remember as a kid really likeing the BW storyline but when I played through it again as an adult I felt different. I guess I don't hate the story so much as a lot of the dialogue and "Blizzard tropes". I wouldn't say that it is the worst story but I don't understand why anyone would think that it's exemplery. | ||
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prosatan
Romania9419 Posts
Last time I was on 47 and I told myself to do better this time ! Long live BW and TL !!! | ||
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TaLIfy
17 Posts
On July 25 2020 16:56 puppykiller wrote: I remember as a kid really likeing the BW storyline but when I played through it again as an adult I felt different. I guess I don't hate the story so much as a lot of the dialogue and "Blizzard tropes". I wouldn't say that it is the worst story but I don't understand why anyone would think that it's exemplery. Me neither. I don’t hate the story in and of itself. I think the story is silly since it’s basically about how one girl becomes the zerg jesus. I can’t get invested in that. Potentially Interesting political actors like the Confederate nations, zerg broods, protoss tribes, etc are all tossed aside in favor of interpersonal melodrama. I wanted to see the aliens invading terran space, and the terrans defending themselves from the aliens. Typical military science fiction stuff. I find Starcraft’s attempt at story to be wasted potential. Again, the plot of SC1 is about how a psychotic twenty something woman becomes the messiah to a bunch of alien locusts that eat planets. That is a b-movie plot at best. How does a sane person come up with something like that? That doesn’t make sense for a devouring swarm to do. Can you imagine the flood, necromorphs, tyranids, etc doing anything like that? I understand the zerg need characters to make their POV compelling to a human player (as the DoW2 tyranid campaign was hella boring), but outright humanizing them destroys what makes them interesting in the first place. Fans of scifi devouring swarms like the tyranids are fans because devouring swarms by nature are relentless, pitiless, merciless, unfeeling, etc. They’re monstrous, destructive, and utterly inhuman. They don’t engage in diplomacy or moralizing or revenge, they just eat you because you’re there! You play them because you want to indulge your id. Making their face/leader a psychotic succubus with daddy/boyfriend issues is absurd on its face. However, fanboys will try to argue that this is the best story ever (it’s b-movie quality at best) and any suggestion that it isn’t perfect is evil heresy. It’s really frustrating. Talking to nostalgic fanboys is like bashing my head against cinderblocks. “Kerry is a special snowflake! The plot totally makes sense! Blah blah blah.” The weird thing is that the same people who put SC1 on an undeserved pedestal say that SC2 is the worst story ever. While SC2 is a bad story, that does not make SC1 a good story. That is not how critical analysis works. If Blizzard ever makes a SC3 (or whatever other continuation, like an FPS, MOBA, RTT, mobile shovelware, etc), then I’m curious as to whether they’ll keep the zergs as peaceful space orcs... or reverse all of that development and make them the main villains like they were in SC1. All of the zerg lore besides Kerry’s forced hero role describes them as biological horrors that twist everything around them into a living nightmare. | ||
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puppykiller
United States3137 Posts
On July 27 2020 03:02 TaLIfy wrote: Me neither. I don’t hate the story in and of itself. I think the story is silly since it’s basically about how one girl becomes the zerg jesus. I can’t get invested in that. Potentially Interesting political actors like the Confederate nations, zerg broods, protoss tribes, etc are all tossed aside in favor of interpersonal melodrama. I wanted to see the aliens invading terran space, and the terrans defending themselves from the aliens. Typical military science fiction stuff. I find Starcraft’s attempt at story to be wasted potential. Again, the plot of SC1 is about how a psychotic twenty something woman becomes the messiah to a bunch of alien locusts that eat planets. That is a b-movie plot at best. How does a sane person come up with something like that? That doesn’t make sense for a devouring swarm to do. Can you imagine the flood, necromorphs, tyranids, etc doing anything like that? I understand the zerg need characters to make their POV compelling to a human player (as the DoW2 tyranid campaign was hella boring), but outright humanizing them destroys what makes them interesting in the first place. Fans of scifi devouring swarms like the tyranids are fans because devouring swarms by nature are relentless, pitiless, merciless, unfeeling, etc. They’re monstrous, destructive, and utterly inhuman. They don’t engage in diplomacy or moralizing or revenge, they just eat you because you’re there! You play them because you want to indulge your id. Making their face/leader a psychotic succubus with daddy/boyfriend issues is absurd on its face. However, fanboys will try to argue that this is the best story ever (it’s b-movie quality at best) and any suggestion that it isn’t perfect is evil heresy. It’s really frustrating. Talking to nostalgic fanboys is like bashing my head against cinderblocks. “Kerry is a special snowflake! The plot totally makes sense! Blah blah blah.” The weird thing is that the same people who put SC1 on an undeserved pedestal say that SC2 is the worst story ever. While SC2 is a bad story, that does not make SC1 a good story. That is not how critical analysis works. If Blizzard ever makes a SC3 (or whatever other continuation, like an FPS, MOBA, RTT, mobile shovelware, etc), then I’m curious as to whether they’ll keep the zergs as peaceful space orcs... or reverse all of that development and make them the main villains like they were in SC1. All of the zerg lore besides Kerry’s forced hero role describes them as biological horrors that twist everything around them into a living nightmare. There are a lot of different reasons many BW players prefer BW to Sc2. However, when it comes to the story in the respective single player campaigns, I would say that is perhaps one of the shallowest reasons one could have. I'm not sure where your finding this particular nostalgic crowd lurking. Most of my posting has been in the BW forum on tl and I would say this community it's completely rallied around the game's multiplayer. I don't think your gonna find a lot of people disagreeing with you that BW has a pretty average storyline here. Many of us haven't even ever played the single player. If I found someone here passionate about the BW single player and convinced it was top tier story writing, I would probably assume they were a total noob who had lost their way from the blizzard forums and didn't realize that they were no longer amongst Blizzard fanboys but Kespa/post Kespa Korean progamer fanboys. That being said I agree with everything you have written up to this point bashing the storyline. I encourage you to bash it more, even though you may not find many here who have much of an opinion on it either way (since most of us consider the single player the least important part of this game). | ||
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whaski
Finland577 Posts
On July 27 2020 03:02 TaLIfy wrote: Me neither. I don’t hate the story in and of itself. I think the story is silly since it’s basically about how one girl becomes the zerg jesus. I can’t get invested in that. Potentially Interesting political actors like the Confederate nations, zerg broods, protoss tribes, etc are all tossed aside in favor of interpersonal melodrama. I wanted to see the aliens invading terran space, and the terrans defending themselves from the aliens. Typical military science fiction stuff. I find Starcraft’s attempt at story to be wasted potential. Again, the plot of SC1 is about how a psychotic twenty something woman becomes the messiah to a bunch of alien locusts that eat planets. That is a b-movie plot at best. How does a sane person come up with something like that? That doesn’t make sense for a devouring swarm to do. Can you imagine the flood, necromorphs, tyranids, etc doing anything like that? I understand the zerg need characters to make their POV compelling to a human player (as the DoW2 tyranid campaign was hella boring), but outright humanizing them destroys what makes them interesting in the first place. Fans of scifi devouring swarms like the tyranids are fans because devouring swarms by nature are relentless, pitiless, merciless, unfeeling, etc. They’re monstrous, destructive, and utterly inhuman. They don’t engage in diplomacy or moralizing or revenge, they just eat you because you’re there! You play them because you want to indulge your id. Making their face/leader a psychotic succubus with daddy/boyfriend issues is absurd on its face. However, fanboys will try to argue that this is the best story ever (it’s b-movie quality at best) and any suggestion that it isn’t perfect is evil heresy. It’s really frustrating. Talking to nostalgic fanboys is like bashing my head against cinderblocks. “Kerry is a special snowflake! The plot totally makes sense! Blah blah blah.” The weird thing is that the same people who put SC1 on an undeserved pedestal say that SC2 is the worst story ever. While SC2 is a bad story, that does not make SC1 a good story. That is not how critical analysis works. If Blizzard ever makes a SC3 (or whatever other continuation, like an FPS, MOBA, RTT, mobile shovelware, etc), then I’m curious as to whether they’ll keep the zergs as peaceful space orcs... or reverse all of that development and make them the main villains like they were in SC1. All of the zerg lore besides Kerry’s forced hero role describes them as biological horrors that twist everything around them into a living nightmare. Are we talking about SC1 or Broodwar? Because I am pretty sure that SC1 was more about Zerg and Protoss with their shared origins. Terrans kind of for mixed up in grand conflict with latent psipowers and such. Kerrigan and Raynor took over in Broodwar with the Mengsk and UED being the driving forces of the story. What you described regarding Raynor and Kerrigan sounds SC2 to me. | ||
KwarK
United States44392 Posts
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Ziggy
South Korea2107 Posts
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/EKRZycb.jpg) The Esports Night presents: Flash Random Match Flash vs ZerO / Bisu / Best 04/08, 1900 KST streams: http://bj.afreecatv.com/afstar1 https://www.twitch.tv/theesportsnight?fbclid=IwAR1LGQqe55ysbFkP_CuBxwdBTEEfsnmdW2_PQWbQXDQ4oQpKa9fDQcJrwfA https://www.youtube.com/TENTheEsports?fbclid=IwAR1ok-MpawkhYkX5vR0fWU5wLrBxQ7tfDoklZNJ46138ij2b_Q9560zbYCM | ||
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Akio
Finland1838 Posts
On July 27 2020 17:11 Ziggy wrote: https://www.facebook.com/SpotvGames/photos/a.614587471939160/3213925675338647/?type=3&theater The Esports Night presents: Flash Random Match Flash vs ZerO / Bisu / Best 04/08, 1900 KST streams: http://bj.afreecatv.com/afstar1 https://www.twitch.tv/theesportsnight?fbclid=IwAR1LGQqe55ysbFkP_CuBxwdBTEEfsnmdW2_PQWbQXDQ4oQpKa9fDQcJrwfA https://www.youtube.com/TENTheEsports?fbclid=IwAR1ok-MpawkhYkX5vR0fWU5wLrBxQ7tfDoklZNJ46138ij2b_Q9560zbYCM Finally FlaSh got his dream ProLeague roster: FlaSh, FlaSh and FlaSh | ||
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Jealous
10403 Posts
On July 27 2020 16:17 KwarK wrote: Do units in a shuttle unload FIFO or LIFO? FIFO. Surprised that you haven't used this to your advantage yet! You can load Zealot Templar Templar for Storm drops on bases with anti-ground unit defense and do the u-click trick to minimize on hassle. | ||
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KwarK
United States44392 Posts
On July 27 2020 20:33 Jealous wrote: FIFO. Surprised that you haven't used this to your advantage yet! You can load Zealot Templar Templar for Storm drops on bases with anti-ground unit defense and do the u-click trick to minimize on hassle. I do try to use it but I can never remember. | ||
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prosatan
Romania9419 Posts
On July 27 2020 16:17 KwarK wrote: Do units in a shuttle unload FIFO or LIFO? Checked it and it's FIFO KwarK! | ||
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Dante08
Singapore4199 Posts
On July 27 2020 16:17 KwarK wrote: Do units in a shuttle unload FIFO or LIFO? 12 years of playing this game and I never once thought of this question... | ||
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Psyonic_Reaver
United States4343 Posts
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