On March 14 2020 11:59 Highgamer wrote: Well, for a start, to do the stuff that he said is not fun: practice build orders and read up on strategy. (+ go for deliberate practice matches against a practice partner or coach)
That stuff is fun btw. And practicing builds orders is a humbling experience because if you watch the rep you realize that you can't even do the shit properly with no opponent around...
some extra practice I’m fine with, but in my opinion you learn more quickly by playing ranked. I know that won’t always translate to wins, probably if you care only about MMR you should perfect some build, but in terms of overall game sense and mechanics I’d like to just play somewhat defensive strategies against players of equal skill level and slowly improve.
After 20 years of playing SC, I can say that playing ladder is not giving you much learnings. Analysis of games, preparation for maps/matches, specific micro/macro exercises give you much more for the time spent.
WOW LOL, this dude has figured out some crazy gas drone bug, this was ridiculous LOL
EDIT : WOW , it looks like he damages drone / unborrows right as it does / cancels the extractor and it creates millions of drones what...
what was it? The vod's gone now.
I explain juvenal:
First, you burrow a damaged drone. At the same time you make an extractor, also with a damaged drone. You kill your burrowed drone ( he used two zerglings to kill it) and you won't believe what is going to happen!!! A milion drones will appear at the extractor and you can cancel it.( note: the drones appear before you even cancel the extractor). This gives you an army of DRONESSSS! ( And also raises your apm to a non-human possibility- over 1700) . You attack and win
On March 14 2020 11:59 Highgamer wrote: Well, for a start, to do the stuff that he said is not fun: practice build orders and read up on strategy. (+ go for deliberate practice matches against a practice partner or coach)
That stuff is fun btw. And practicing builds orders is a humbling experience because if you watch the rep you realize that you can't even do the shit properly with no opponent around...
some extra practice I’m fine with, but in my opinion you learn more quickly by playing ranked. I know that won’t always translate to wins, probably if you care only about MMR you should perfect some build, but in terms of overall game sense and mechanics I’d like to just play somewhat defensive strategies against players of equal skill level and slowly improve.
That's also a way to develop bad habits, because you are playing in response to your field and not in response to what you will face in the future. In other words, you will run into weird low MMR shit, inefficient or nonsensical build orders, etc. and because you are using this as your learning foundation, you will be misled into doing things that don't make sense. This game has 20 years of history, it makes sense to base your learning of it at least somewhat on that history and not on biased perception of low level ladder experience.
can you give an example of a bad habit? I honestly have trouble conceptualizing what it means. usually if I run into problems with my skill level the simple answer is to just play more. i don't know if I believe in, like, technical exercises or special coaching.
Not using camera hotkey is one example. If you grind rank game without use camera hotkey, then you will not get used to it. You will not develop habit. This is what friend mean. I like stroopwaffelen.
On March 14 2020 11:59 Highgamer wrote: Well, for a start, to do the stuff that he said is not fun: practice build orders and read up on strategy. (+ go for deliberate practice matches against a practice partner or coach)
That stuff is fun btw. And practicing builds orders is a humbling experience because if you watch the rep you realize that you can't even do the shit properly with no opponent around...
some extra practice I’m fine with, but in my opinion you learn more quickly by playing ranked. I know that won’t always translate to wins, probably if you care only about MMR you should perfect some build, but in terms of overall game sense and mechanics I’d like to just play somewhat defensive strategies against players of equal skill level and slowly improve.
After 20 years of playing SC, I can say that playing ladder is not giving you much learnings. Analysis of games, preparation for maps/matches, specific micro/macro exercises give you much more for the time spent.
After 20 years of playing SC I can say game is 50% mechanics Mr Pieorgi man. I hear one day about Flash says playing most his game vs computer.
WOW LOL, this dude has figured out some crazy gas drone bug, this was ridiculous LOL
EDIT : WOW , it looks like he damages drone / unborrows right as it does / cancels the extractor and it creates millions of drones what...
what was it? The vod's gone now.
I explain juvenal:
First, you burrow a damaged drone. At the same time you make an extractor, also with a damaged drone. You kill your burrowed drone ( he used two zerglings to kill it) and you won't believe what is going to happen!!! A milion drones will appear at the extractor and you can cancel it.( note: the drones appear before you even cancel the extractor). This gives you an army of DRONESSSS! ( And also raises your apm to a non-human possibility- over 1700) . You attack and win
I just try in custom game and no it does not work.
On March 14 2020 11:59 Highgamer wrote: Well, for a start, to do the stuff that he said is not fun: practice build orders and read up on strategy. (+ go for deliberate practice matches against a practice partner or coach)
That stuff is fun btw. And practicing builds orders is a humbling experience because if you watch the rep you realize that you can't even do the shit properly with no opponent around...
some extra practice I’m fine with, but in my opinion you learn more quickly by playing ranked. I know that won’t always translate to wins, probably if you care only about MMR you should perfect some build, but in terms of overall game sense and mechanics I’d like to just play somewhat defensive strategies against players of equal skill level and slowly improve.
That's also a way to develop bad habits, because you are playing in response to your field and not in response to what you will face in the future. In other words, you will run into weird low MMR shit, inefficient or nonsensical build orders, etc. and because you are using this as your learning foundation, you will be misled into doing things that don't make sense. This game has 20 years of history, it makes sense to base your learning of it at least somewhat on that history and not on biased perception of low level ladder experience.
can you give an example of a bad habit? I honestly have trouble conceptualizing what it means. usually if I run into problems with my skill level the simple answer is to just play more. i don't know if I believe in, like, technical exercises or special coaching.
Some people screen-scroll around on the map by moving the mouse to the edges of the screen. Some people don't use F-keys or hotkeys. Some people never really learn the full micro-potential of mutas/vultures/shuttles etc.. Some people play only one self-taught build per matchup ("I just always sneak in that ninja expo"). They all get by with those bad habits because all they do is ladder, mostly meet people of their caliber, and never have to worry about fixing those suboptimal habits to keep their 50% winrate (or even a bit higher rate because there are noobs here n there).
Other mistakes/weaknesses that can become bad habits would be: To stop building workers way too early and thus never maximizing your income. To be lazy on queueing up new units in your production facilities. To have bad building placement. To build more static defenses than you need. To move out with your army too late. To forget to macro when you're engaging an opponent. Etc.
Now, those things happen to anyone, but far less often to good players. And that is because they sat down and grinded their build orders so that they don't have to think about that when playing. They practiced how to micro their units beforehand, not here and there by accident in a real game. Or they looked up once and for all how many turrets/cannons/sunkens they need in a certain matchup, or studied how a pro-player solves a crisis situation by pulling workers etc.
Also in terms of unit choice and strategy you'll get away with doing stuff on lower level that will never work on higher levels. Once you're used to "noone can stop my 12nex cannon expand", then glhf starting from scratch when people outmacro you every time you do that build. Once you have concluded that "fast carriers is the way to win TvP", then glhf when your opponents start to scout it and build enough goliaths.
Your builds will never be truely efficient if you just make them up on the fly. Normally the builds we use were designed by professional players and we copy them. You can hardly compete against such a build with stuff that you made up while playing against D rank players. And these pro-builds are not easy to copy, they're stuffed with details, and you need good mechanics to even execute these builds. You'll have to sit down and grind some practice games to hit all the timings of those builds, let alone to know them well enough to execute them properly when you have to worry about an opponent.
Like KogeT said, if you just keep laddering then your progress will be incredibly slow. You won't get better quickly at all of those things I mentioned with every game, that's self-delusion. After every loss you will say something different: "Yes, I have to macro better." "Yes, I have to micro my units better." "Yes, I need to scout more." "Yes, I have to expand earlier." But if you never sit down and drill that shit into your brain in a repetitive practice environment then you won't actually do it better. The next game will suck up all your concentration/multitasking-ability and you will repeat what you did the game before, including your mistakes. Maybe you'll try to remember to fix one problem, but maybe you won't reexperience the same situation for the next 5 matches, or your opponent will play the matchup completely differently. Fixing a dozen problems with an erratic practice schedule like that will take ages.
Don't get me wrong: It's 100% OK to be just another laddering-guy, most of us are probably, for most of the time. The deliberate practice requires a lot more focus and is more exhausting than just playing a few ladder games. I'd guess that most of the people who've studied this game with quite a verve at some point have stopped to improve sometime, years back probably, because what they could achieve on ladder was enough for them. So they kept laddering and laddering... learning one or two tricks or fixing one or two mistakes every month - and were thus left back in the dirt by any newcomer who kept up with the deliberate practice for a bit longer and solved/avoided dozens of bad habits in the first place.
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tl;dr deliberate practice = git gud ladder = stay shit for long (but it's OK dude)
On March 15 2020 17:56 prosatan wrote: MisterBoba I have tried it too, but it doesn't work. And I did exactly like in the vod . The zerg was playing against protoss player Jaehoon.
It's an exploit that involves filling up the order queue. The drone damage likely doesn't have much to do with it, but burrowing/unburrowing repeatedly is a convenient way to fill up the order queue. Such things have existed in the past, I'm not sure if they were ever suitably fixed or the hack creators just didn't update things to new patches:
On March 14 2020 11:59 Highgamer wrote: Well, for a start, to do the stuff that he said is not fun: practice build orders and read up on strategy. (+ go for deliberate practice matches against a practice partner or coach)
That stuff is fun btw. And practicing builds orders is a humbling experience because if you watch the rep you realize that you can't even do the shit properly with no opponent around...
some extra practice I’m fine with, but in my opinion you learn more quickly by playing ranked. I know that won’t always translate to wins, probably if you care only about MMR you should perfect some build, but in terms of overall game sense and mechanics I’d like to just play somewhat defensive strategies against players of equal skill level and slowly improve.
That's also a way to develop bad habits, because you are playing in response to your field and not in response to what you will face in the future. In other words, you will run into weird low MMR shit, inefficient or nonsensical build orders, etc. and because you are using this as your learning foundation, you will be misled into doing things that don't make sense. This game has 20 years of history, it makes sense to base your learning of it at least somewhat on that history and not on biased perception of low level ladder experience.
can you give an example of a bad habit? I honestly have trouble conceptualizing what it means. usually if I run into problems with my skill level the simple answer is to just play more. i don't know if I believe in, like, technical exercises or special coaching.
If you play shitty Zergs only, you may believe that Mutalisk timing is 8 minutes. You may believe scouting early is not that important, or that microing your scout is not that important, or that only the player's race and location is relevant. You may believe that opening Forge + two Cannons before Nexus regardless of what your opponent does is good enough. You may believe that you can always take your 3rd on FS easily as Terran. You may never have to worry about the opponent dropping your mineral line or outmicroing your FD push. You might believe center 3 Gate or Zealot-first openings always beat Rax FE.
There are millions of potential examples of how playing shit players instills shit ideas about the game in a player.
On March 16 2020 14:36 evilfatsh1t wrote: no. you need to pay attention to them at all times. a clicking will eventually get a few dragoons killed
Wow that is crazy. Vulture is so good. APM needed to lay mine is very low and can be place anywhere. But to sweep area with goon + obs you need to watch at all times. But this is RTS, and so that is why it is good strategy and I respect my T opponent.
On March 16 2020 14:36 evilfatsh1t wrote: no. you need to pay attention to them at all times. a clicking will eventually get a few dragoons killed
Wow that is crazy. Vulture is so good. APM needed to lay mine is very low and can be place anywhere. But to sweep area with goon + obs you need to watch at all times. But this is RTS, and so that is why it is good strategy and I respect my T opponent.
umm...its far more difficult to use vultures to lay mines and control the map than it is to clear mines with dragoon+obs
In PvT I always upgrade early obs speed. This way, i saw that goons + obs have the same speed and it is more useful do clear mines like that. I think it is better to invest 150 minerals and 150 gas and have obs speed for the rest of the game than to lose 2-3 dragoons in the process. Obs range I rarely upgrade, maybe in late game.
On March 16 2020 14:36 evilfatsh1t wrote: no. you need to pay attention to them at all times. a clicking will eventually get a few dragoons killed
Wow that is crazy. Vulture is so good. APM needed to lay mine is very low and can be place anywhere. But to sweep area with goon + obs you need to watch at all times. But this is RTS, and so that is why it is good strategy and I respect my T opponent.
umm...its far more difficult to use vultures to lay mines and control the map than it is to clear mines with dragoon+obs
I did not know these thing. Crazy stuff! EDIT: sorry friend I have question now. If more difficult and taxing for T to lay mine then for P to clear, why T do it? Seem like you want make the game hard for opponent not yourself.
On March 16 2020 14:36 evilfatsh1t wrote: no. you need to pay attention to them at all times. a clicking will eventually get a few dragoons killed
Wow that is crazy. Vulture is so good. APM needed to lay mine is very low and can be place anywhere. But to sweep area with goon + obs you need to watch at all times. But this is RTS, and so that is why it is good strategy and I respect my T opponent.
umm...its far more difficult to use vultures to lay mines and control the map than it is to clear mines with dragoon+obs
I did not know these thing. Crazy stuff! EDIT: sorry friend I have question now. If more difficult and taxing for T to lay mine then for P to clear, why T do it? Seem like you want make the game hard for opponent not yourself.
if youre capable of doing it why wouldnt you? free vision, possibly free damage, insane map control, insane harrassing ability, overall nuisance etc.
EPT
