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On February 18 2019 12:21 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2019 11:53 Letmelose wrote:
The problem with calling JangBi the best protoss-versus-terran player of all-time is that it was only true when JangBi felt like being the best. There is an argument to be had that JangBi was the most skilled at numerous aspects of the match-up, and was nearly unstoppable when in full motion, but the circumstances under which his magnificent talent shined wasn't a consistent factor in many of his professional matches. The most impressive players that stick to the mind aren't always the greatest players in terms of producing positive results, which is ultimately the end goal of competitive gaming.
If I had a choice in selecting a moment in time, I might vouch for JangBi too, but in its entirety, his protoss-versus-terran career results wasn't as astounding as others. Having the highest peak performance doesn't necessarily mean that you have the highest mean performance, and JangBi was plagued with inconsistencies, even in his favoured match-up. JangBi may be the most impressive specimen if you only regard his highlight reel plays and peak ELO points, but life isn't a highlight reel despite that being what most people remember you for, your actual overall worth as a player should take into account your lowest points as well as your highest, and JangBi was nowhere near as consistent even in his famed protoss-versus-terran match-up when compared to Stork. I think that this is also the reason why Bisu is not in the conversation for best PvT, and why Best should be. Bisu's most consistent PvT form was during the early days of post-3.3.07 IMO, despite his MMR peak being listed as mid-2011. When people adapted to his style, his PvT weakness became apparent. This is also not to mention that like JangBi, he was inconsistent. I think that while Stork probably had a better fundamental understanding of PvT, Best had the better toolkit and was similarly consistent. That's just my opinion, though. If I were to name the best PvT players of the post-3.3 era, I'd put Stork/Best above JangBi, and JangBi over Bisu.
There's a difference in being excellent versus high profile players in the round of eight or above (mostly composed of best-of-series), and being good in general.
I'll compare the high profile protoss-versus-terran best-of-series BeSt/Bisu/JangBi/Stork played, restricted to knock out rounds from the round of eight onwards for the OGN StarLeague and the MBC Game StarLeague.
1. BeSt
Overall protoss-versus-terran record on TLPD: 110-57 (65.87%)
Protoss-versus-terran record from quarter-finals onwards: 2-3 (40.00%)
Comments: Quite simply put, BeSt simply wasn't good enough as a player to progress far enough in individual leagues to get tested against top notch terran players on a regular basis. His overall win rate is indeed impressive, but guess what, by that metric, SnOw has the highest overall win rate within the protoss-verus-terran match-up, and we simply don't know whether that was accumulated through stomping low level terran players in the qualification stages and only playing within his comfort zone in the ProLeague where you get to pick and choose your map entry and your opponent somewhat.
2. Bisu
Overall protoss-versus-terran record on TLPD: 159-90 (63.86%)
Protoss-versus-terran record from quarter-finals onwards: 19-20 (48.72%)
Comments: The reason why Bisu is underrated by many by the masses is not because he sucked all the time versus the terran race, it is because he basically failed the most out of any modern day protoss players versus high quality terran opponents in the most prominent stages.
3. JangBi
Overall protoss-versus-terran record on TLPD: 119-72 (62.30%)
Protoss-versus-terran record from quarter-finals onwards: 14-6 (70.00%)
Comments: JangBi is overrated by many because of his undefeated record against the terran race within a best-of-five setting, and his tendency to really take off when he hits his form. However, while his individual league record versus the terran race is impeccable, the same cannot be said for his regular season performances, especially within the ProLeague. It hasn't been all roses for JangBi, but I personally felt like the dude had the highest ceiling within the match-up if fully unleashed. However, what I personally expected out of JangBi has in no way equaled what actually JangBi put out as his overall performance during his professional career.
4. Stork
Overall protoss-versus-terran record on TLPD: 187-101 (64.93%)
Protoss-versus-terran record from quarter-finals onwards: 21-15 (58.33%)
Comments: The most boring, and somewhat unsatisfying answer is that Stork has been as a whole the greatest protoss-versus-terran player of all time within the confines of professional Brood War. Nobody has accumulated a greater body of work, and while Stork has suffered a lot of embarassing defeats throughout his career, it was also partly because he was always there to challenge the best
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Letmelose that's probably the best way to look at it. I forgot how Best never made a semifinal again after the Incruit OSL, in terms of starleagues he really peaked early. It's interesting to talk about because unlike with most MUs there isn't a very clear answer as to who was the best (IE Jaedong definitely was the best Zerg in every MU, Bisu was the best PvZ, etc).
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Does anyone else have this following problem lately when trying to watch twitch-streams through TL:
It tells me "network error #2000, try again", any twitch-streamer I try... Afreeca-streams work fine
If I click on "View on Twitch" it works just fine on the site itself.
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On February 20 2019 08:03 Highgamer wrote:
Does anyone else have this following problem lately when trying to watch twitch-streams through TL:
It tells me "network error #2000, try again", any twitch-streamer I try... Afreeca-streams work fine
If I click on "View on Twitch" it works just fine on the site itself.
This happened to me on Twitch as a result of an ad-blocker I have. If you have something like Ghostery, what you need to do is disable "advanced tracking protection" for Twitch.
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I wanna get into Broodwar, but where do people play? Does anyone play the official ladder or is it still ICCUP/Fish
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On February 20 2019 11:55 Berby wrote:
I wanna get into Broodwar, but where do people play? Does anyone play the official ladder or is it still ICCUP/Fish
Most are on official servers, either US. West, Europe or Korea.
Iccup still exist but very low population doesn't use Remastered, Fish isnt active anymore.
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ya, you should have no problem finding opponents on the official ladder. even europe, with the lowest population has relatively short queue times with under a minute.
and for anything else, you got teamliquid. just ask.
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Always baffles me to hear that Europe has the lowest population... Guess I overestimated the number of europeans present back when we all played on ICCup xD
@Berby
You find games there within the minute though most of the time, yes, unless you cue between 3.00 and 7.00 o'clock or something.
The public channels are very "un-social" though, I mean, people hardly talk to strangers there. If you want company, work on your friend-list and learn in which channels these ppl hang out, or hook up with people through TL, discord, etc.
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I saw people on battle.net discussing about eonzerg being seeded to play the next ASL. Is it true ? would be nice.
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On February 21 2019 01:32 ppp87 wrote:
I saw people on battle.net discussing about eonzerg being seeded to play the next ASL. Is it true ? would be nice.
LOL *snaps fingers* "Korrea... Korrrea! I'm coming for you." *snaps fingers*
I think you got trolled man haha
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TLADT24920 Posts
On February 21 2019 02:13 GunSlinger wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2019 01:32 ppp87 wrote:
I saw people on battle.net discussing about eonzerg being seeded to play the next ASL. Is it true ? would be nice. LOL *snaps fingers* "Korrea... Korrrea! I'm coming for you." *snaps fingers* I think you got trolled man haha
Pretty much. ASL wouldn't randomly invite a foreigner considering all the other players fight tooth and nail to get into it. It would reduce the legitimacy of the tournament too.
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United States1434 Posts
Hey guys Zero and a girl spotted. They seemed pretty chummy. Is this Zero's new GF? She's not the same girl that broke up with Zero just before he entered the military, right? Anyone know who this girl is?
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To me she looks like the same girl he had before army. But she grew out her hair a bit to trick us/zero.
They are now on a roller coaster thing where he screams hysterically like a little girl, while she is laughing at him and stuffing his mouth with her hand.
Afreeca streams are the fucking best. I hope they go for Mokbang later!
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why isn't match point a tournament mainstay? are there obscene racial imbalances i'm not seeing? seems like a very time-tested map and i'm surprised i only see it here. before it was used as an ace match map which makes no sense.. i feel like it should be used more often. but i guess it is played out? hard to tell the decision-making of the map-choosers
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On February 24 2019 02:34 Alejandrisha wrote:
why isn't match point a tournament mainstay? are there obscene racial imbalances i'm not seeing? seems like a very time-tested map and i'm surprised i only see it here. before it was used as an ace match map which makes no sense.. i feel like it should be used more often. but i guess it is played out? hard to tell the decision-making of the map-choosers
I may be off on this, but it has always struck me as a map that is harder for Zerg players unless they cheese Protoss (and harder in general vs. Terran), and it is also very much momentum-based in that aggressive players are often rewarded disproportionately due to the layout of the nat which in turn makes it hard to stage a comeback. Player plays aggressive -> gets an advantage -> never lets go seems to be much easier on that map, which doesn't make for the most entertaining games. Just my take.
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On February 23 2019 14:56 Ty2 wrote:Hey guys Zero and a girl spotted. They seemed pretty chummy. Is this Zero's new GF? She's not the same girl that broke up with Zero just before he entered the military, right? Anyone know who this girl is?
She's 꼬미 and you can find a lot of cute videos of zero and her on zeros YouTube
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On February 24 2019 06:06 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2019 02:34 Alejandrisha wrote:
why isn't match point a tournament mainstay? are there obscene racial imbalances i'm not seeing? seems like a very time-tested map and i'm surprised i only see it here. before it was used as an ace match map which makes no sense.. i feel like it should be used more often. but i guess it is played out? hard to tell the decision-making of the map-choosers I may be off on this, but it has always struck me as a map that is harder for Zerg players unless they cheese Protoss (and harder in general vs. Terran), and it is also very much momentum-based in that aggressive players are often rewarded disproportionately due to the layout of the nat which in turn makes it hard to stage a comeback. Player plays aggressive -> gets an advantage -> never lets go seems to be much easier on that map, which doesn't make for the most entertaining games. Just my take.
I can see that with how the natural has a low ground weakness which hurts zerg. in pvz i mostly see the zerg going for a hydra bust off of 3 hatches tops so I hear you on that. the JD game comes to mind, even though i think he even did it against a terran as well. i appreciate your explanation. i will say that a map that can give good games in sc1 and sc2 DOES deserve a little respect xD.
I guess I just really like the map even though as a protoss I am looking at a lot of 2 basing v zerg because if you take that all min 3rd the high ground becomes lurker/ovie/scourge Hades. the simplicity of the map is what i like, perhaps.
it's a map like destination in that it is so classic i think it is too classic to add amongst these modern maps. i've never gotten a definitive answer as to why destination fell out of league play other than 'bridges.' i think it is also an amazing classic map that deserves to see some play
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On February 24 2019 06:58 CadenZie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2019 14:56 Ty2 wrote:Hey guys Zero and a girl spotted. They seemed pretty chummy. Is this Zero's new GF? She's not the same girl that broke up with Zero just before he entered the military, right? Anyone know who this girl is? She's 꼬미 and you can find a lot of cute videos of zero and her on zeros YouTube
from their expressions it looked like you jumped on the hood of their car and snapped the picture as you were sliding off the other side
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what is zero ysutube channel?
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EPT![[image loading]](/staff/Ty2/zeroGF.png)
