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TLADT24920 Posts
On June 03 2015 07:51 [[Starlight]] wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 00:30 BigFan wrote:On June 02 2015 17:25 [[Starlight]] wrote:On June 02 2015 00:11 McRatyn wrote:On June 01 2015 22:54 IntoTheheart wrote:
Despite the fact that there are people who stream, and play in tournaments, is BW in Korea more or less just an amateur scene now, with people practicing after work or when they're between jobs?
I'm mainly asking this because I haven't seen any team leagues pop up, it's all individual tournaments. I belive Brood War as a vocation ceased to exist, but would need a confirmation on that. Would be interesting to see how much that would change if Blizzard ever released, say, an HD update of BW. Of course, the odds are decidedly against that, especially before LotV coming out, but even afterwards.  After all, it'd be a bit embarrassing if a significant # of ppl then left SC2 for BW, i.e. your 'latest and greatest' taking a hit from a legacy game. I'dough one would like to think that Bliz wouldn't think of it that way. Actually, I'd rather they didn't try to release some HD version of BW. Change isn't always a good thing. BW's graphics are nowhere as terrible as some people claim and as mentioned, even a small change that seems insignificant on the surface can alter gameplay quite a bit. Another thing is that there is a good chance that the graphical update will cause a lot of people to be unable to play the game. Even with the lowest setting, my laptop can't play lotv. So now 640x480 and 256 colors is tha bomb? I'm not saying they should make BW 3D or use SC2's engine or anything. I personally am not crazy about SC2's look and feel, and prefer BW's aesthetics overall. But high-res 2D BW would be awesome.  I also don't think high-res 2D BW would be terribly high on the sys requirements, considering that it's been 17 years since release. If you're still running 1998 hardware, well, it might just be time for an upgrade, lol.
That has nothing to do with it. I value gameplay over anything else but BW's graphics despite their age are nowhere near as bad as many claim (those who use it as an excuse at least lol). Point is, I'm not really interested in an upgrade to BW's graphics and would likely stick to BW of old. Either way, you won't get many people playing and sticking with the game due to its difficulty (just think of how fast people shelf games these days and difficulty complaints).
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Netherlands4987 Posts
Edit: wrong thread, my bad.
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Japan11286 Posts
I like bw's graphics as well. I don't really like how todays games look too realistic or cartoony (minus FPS or RPG games). My personal threshold would look like wc3 or something like that. But I do wonder if we can attract more of today's generation of gamers. I've had several friends who went like "wtf" when they first see bw, so yeah, just a thought.
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I love BroodWars graphics, and whenever people say "I couldn't play StarCraft 1 / BroodWar because the graphics are terrible" I immediatly facepalm and realize they are a newbie.
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On June 04 2015 00:17 GGzerG wrote:
I love BroodWars graphics, and whenever people say "I couldn't play StarCraft 1 / BroodWar because the graphics are terrible" I immediatly facepalm and realize they are a newbie.
1. I understand wanting Brood War to look better even if only in bigger resolution. Without gameplay changes it can be nice.
2. There's a point to game graphics where people saying that they don't play a certain game because of graphic leaves me speechless. Thare are games though in which my untrained eyes have trouble making sense of the visuals on the screen but I think every game made since like 1995 is above that, BW included.
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What I'd like more than an HD version of BW is some new networking code. The current one is pretty painful to use.
I think the cartoony style of it looks cool.and there's not a whole lot of need for a visual update. Most games that I've seen gone through those tend to come out worse in being readable or causing visual tiredness.
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is it just me, or is foreign broowar really dead and nobody talks about it.
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Wow, welcome to 1998, where ppl love 640x480x256 colors so much, they'd allegedly get mad at Bliz if BW kept the same graphics and just upped the rez, making them look even better. 
But if Bliz ever did release an HD update, I bet the vast majority of ppl would play it quite happily, and never look back.
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On June 04 2015 07:48 Cele wrote:
is it just me, or is foreign broowar really dead and nobody talks about it.
It's not dead. I just played yesterday.
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On June 04 2015 08:55 Sero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2015 07:48 Cele wrote:
is it just me, or is foreign broowar really dead and nobody talks about it. It's not dead. I just played yesterday.
hehe. i played today. But honestly, not a lot going on amymore, or wouldn't you agree? i mean in terms of tournaments and other incentives, to play more or for some, to get active again.
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United Kingdom12022 Posts
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On June 04 2015 09:05 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2015 09:00 Cele wrote:On June 04 2015 08:55 Sero wrote:On June 04 2015 07:48 Cele wrote:
is it just me, or is foreign broowar really dead and nobody talks about it. It's not dead. I just played yesterday. hehe. i played today. But honestly, not a lot going on amymore, or wouldn't you agree? i mean in terms of tournaments and other incentives, to play more or for some, to get active again. You sir need the STPL. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/486446-stpl-r-and-s-shinhan-tank-proleague-2015[/plug]
well, don't get me wrong, im playing rather actively ATM and me personally, i don't lack incentive to play. Though STPL is sexy, but i've been following that. But taking a look at the bigger picture:
- Iccup has mostly around 200 to 400 users online, it's not always easy to find good ladder games. A lot of people i play with complain regular, that it's hard to ladder past ~ C Ranks, just coz you don't find games really well.
- When was the last foreign big time tournament for high levels? Your correct, that was TLS 3, and that was around 2013. You might ask, why do we need those events? Well i think, they motivate a ton of guys to play again, just for trying out in the Qualifiers. And those guys motivate their friends to play to etc.
- in general: TL's community is still very passionate about BW, but sometimes i get the impression the passion is limited to watching/covering korean BW and does not extend to play yourself/ organize/write do stuff for our scene. Which is important i think, coz just watching Kor BW and accept that in our scene not a lot happens anymore, is not what at least i want to do..
- defiler tournaments are by far the biggest attraction "we" still have to offer and they are getting rare too
So, when writing this
On June 04 2015 07:48 Cele wrote:
is it just me, or is foreign broowar really dead and nobody talks about it.
im much more referring to the big picture, then to me lacking incentive to play/organize stuff.
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Bisutopia19231 Posts
Why did people pick Jaehoon over Mong?!?! And why does Jaehoon keep winning?!?
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On June 03 2015 07:45 [[Starlight]] wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 00:12 lestye wrote:On June 02 2015 23:56 [[Starlight]] wrote:On June 02 2015 23:12 pheer wrote:On June 02 2015 22:38 [[Starlight]] wrote:
Where did we get the idea that any change would make the game 'not BW'?
The point I was making is, even a super small change to the current game would completely throw the dynamic of the game as we know it. So because you can slightly change the game itself with such a minor edit, there would be no possible way to replicate it or make "broodwar 2" or whatever. sc2bw on sc2 is super fun, but it doesn't have all the little quirks that make bw what we know it today! I can imagine the same conversation after the 1.04 patch: "Oh, man. They slowed down the rate at which the Hatchery spawns larvae from one every 15 seconds to one every 20 seconds [a very major change, btw]. It's just not the same game anymore, they've completely thrown the dynamic. So what if it was a major source of imba in favor of Zerg, I liked the quirk, now it's just not Brood War anymore." And yet... everyone kept playing after 1.04, and in fact most ppl liked the changes quite a lot, actually. The thing is, patch 1.03 was there for two months before 1.04 came out. We've been on the same "balance" patch for 14+ years. There's a lot of people perfectly content with BW balance (read the hypothetical balance patch thread). Uh huh, and 1.08 came along 3 years after release, and 2.5 years after 1.04, and also changed quite a lot of things... and most ppl didn't get mad and say, "This isn't BW anymore", they kept on playing the game. Just as happened with the 1.04 release. Probably in no small part because pre-1.04 balance wasn't good, and the game would've suffered if Bliz had NOT acted. It wouldn't in fact be the game we know and love if they had just sat on their hands, for fear of upsetting the few ppl who'd get mad if they made changes.
And after 1.04 you had a few balance patches after that.
The fact of the matter is, the game's balance has not been touched in over a decade, and it has stood the test of the time.
That's one of the most amazing things about Brood War, is that After Brood War's release, Blizzard only released six balance patches and it's been played at a professional level for over a decade. That is absolutely amazing and the only other game that could have a similar claim to fame is CS 1.6 .
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On June 04 2015 12:14 lestye wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 07:45 [[Starlight]] wrote:On June 03 2015 00:12 lestye wrote:On June 02 2015 23:56 [[Starlight]] wrote:On June 02 2015 23:12 pheer wrote:On June 02 2015 22:38 [[Starlight]] wrote:
Where did we get the idea that any change would make the game 'not BW'?
The point I was making is, even a super small change to the current game would completely throw the dynamic of the game as we know it. So because you can slightly change the game itself with such a minor edit, there would be no possible way to replicate it or make "broodwar 2" or whatever. sc2bw on sc2 is super fun, but it doesn't have all the little quirks that make bw what we know it today! I can imagine the same conversation after the 1.04 patch: "Oh, man. They slowed down the rate at which the Hatchery spawns larvae from one every 15 seconds to one every 20 seconds [a very major change, btw]. It's just not the same game anymore, they've completely thrown the dynamic. So what if it was a major source of imba in favor of Zerg, I liked the quirk, now it's just not Brood War anymore." And yet... everyone kept playing after 1.04, and in fact most ppl liked the changes quite a lot, actually. The thing is, patch 1.03 was there for two months before 1.04 came out. We've been on the same "balance" patch for 14+ years. There's a lot of people perfectly content with BW balance (read the hypothetical balance patch thread). Uh huh, and 1.08 came along 3 years after release, and 2.5 years after 1.04, and also changed quite a lot of things... and most ppl didn't get mad and say, "This isn't BW anymore", they kept on playing the game. Just as happened with the 1.04 release. Probably in no small part because pre-1.04 balance wasn't good, and the game would've suffered if Bliz had NOT acted. It wouldn't in fact be the game we know and love if they had just sat on their hands, for fear of upsetting the few ppl who'd get mad if they made changes. And after 1.04 you had a few balance patches after that. The fact of the matter is, the game's balance has not been touched in over a decade, and it has stood the test of the time. That's one of the most amazing things about Brood War, is that After Brood War's release, Blizzard only released six balance patches and it's been played at a professional level for over a decade. That is absolutely amazing and the only other game that could have a similar claim to fame is CS 1.6 .
You say only six balance patches... actually, it was four. But between them, they had roughly 100 balance changes.
So, a LOT of stuff had to be refined, a lot of stuff was far from perfect. RTSes are complex... we can all agree on that.
I remember being on the Blizzard forums at the time of those patches' release, and every time a balance patch hit, there were a few ppl who screamed and complained. There were even a few complainers when the first balance patch, 1.02 got released, even though it was so very obvious that something was needed.
But in every case, most ppl were either cool with the changes, or, more often, actively liked them. And they played on. I suspect it would be much the same if Blizzard ever returned to the game and released a new version with HD and balance changes (though I don't consider either to be likely, even after LotV is released).
You talk about '14 years', but that's a double-edged sword... the meta of the game has changed so much since 2001 that it's doubtful that all of the designers' assumptions as of 1.08 still hold. What was the state of play in early '01 compared to 2007? 2010? Now? It's changed.
Bliz hasn't tweaked anything more because they've moved on. They kept improving the balance for 3 years after release, that's quite an effort/commitment, and they're to be commended for it. 17 years of continuous refinement would be asking for far too much, no one, not even Bliz, would do that... not unless there were further BW expansions, aka $$$ on the line.
But I would be more than fine if they did a one-shot re-visiting of the game, adapted to the new meta, etc. If you don't like it, well, I'm sure you could keep playing the old version if you liked, don't see how a new version would prevent that.
But this is all very 'what if'. It's more than likely that Bliz will never, ever do anything more with BW, even a simple HD update. That's the safe bet, anyway.
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On June 04 2015 11:57 BisuDagger wrote:
Why did people pick Jaehoon over Mong?!?! And why does Jaehoon keep winning?!?
Bermuda recalls? 
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United Kingdom12022 Posts
On June 04 2015 11:57 BisuDagger wrote:
Why did people pick Jaehoon over Mong?!?! And why does Jaehoon keep winning?!?
All the units he transported to the bermuda triangle all those years ago are appearing back one by one in his recalls now which gives him unhuman strength.
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On June 04 2015 18:34 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2015 11:57 BisuDagger wrote:
Why did people pick Jaehoon over Mong?!?! And why does Jaehoon keep winning?!? All the units he transported to the bermuda triangle all those years ago are appearing back one by one in his recalls now which gives him unhuman strength.
that is hilarious
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Netherlands4987 Posts
So I am suddenly able to watch Afreeca streams with firefox. Is this TL's doing or some ff update?
Either way I'm happy!
On June 04 2015 07:48 Cele wrote:
- When was the last foreign big time tournament for high levels? Your correct, that was TLS 3, and that was around 2013. You might ask, why do we need those events? Well i think, they motivate a ton of guys to play again, just for trying out in the Qualifiers. And those guys motivate their friends to play to etc.
- in general: TL's community is still very passionate about BW, but sometimes i get the impression the passion is limited to watching/covering korean BW and does not extend to play yourself/ organize/write do stuff for our scene. Which is important i think, coz just watching Kor BW and accept that in our scene not a lot happens anymore, is not what at least i want to do..
Watching higher Korean level tends to be more amusing than watching foreigner BW. It's laid back to watch, while playing tends to be rather intensive. Playing BW isn't like riding a bicycle; if you don't play often enough, your mechanics will suffer a lot. The part of TL's community who are passionate about BW seem to be mostly the same passionate regulars from years ago. These regulars have gotten older, they generally have more commitments and other priorities thus don't have much room to sacrifice practice time required to play at a high level. I think we will need new/young blood to fuel BW, whether that is foreigner or Korean BW, hence Sonic starting SonicTV's New Project.
Easy access to BW remains a blockade for newcomers. Lag, portforwarding, screen resolution/colors, despite mca64 and alike their efforts, are still real issues.
I'm sure there are a lot of fans who would like to contribute more to/play more BW, but simply can't.
Btw, I did offer to play in Qikz' tournament, (given he would have trouble finding enough players).
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GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
On June 04 2015 23:07 Peeano wrote:
So I am suddenly able to watch Afreeca streams with firefox. Is this TL's doing or some ff update?
Either way I'm happy!
afreeca has been working on rolling out CDNs throughout europe and americas so that might be the case for you
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EPT
