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Hi everybody. This is CrystalDrag from BWMN.net with another map.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/UCP4WxQ.jpg)
Basics~~
*Map Size : 128x128
*Tileset : Space
*Players : 4
*Symmetry : x/y/xy
*Buildability : + Show Spoiler +
*Walkability : + Show Spoiler +
Notable Features~~
*Terrain ; first map ever to use every possible different terrain for space.
*Low ground mains ; promote early aggression/expansion
*Main's minerals ; the three minerals farthest from each SL have been moved 8 pixels closer.
*Natural gas ; the position of the gas in relation to the wall prevents zerglings
*Islands ; can be taken in longer games, or when trouble expanding.
*Terrain levels ; the terrain in the middle is very important for strategic position of armies as well as unit movement. control of higher ground than the opponent is very important.
Change Log
v1.1
+ Show Spoiler +*All far mineral fields at each expansion have been moved 8 pixels closer.
*North island has been moved up one tile.
*Middle expansions have been moved closer to the middle
*Critters added
*Observer Version added
*SLs have been moved two tiles further away from the cliff.
v1.2
+ Show Spoiler +*Resources debugging
*Mains moved 2 tiles away from cliffs
v1.3
+ Show Spoiler +*North island has been fixed (^^')
*Terrain reduced behind the middle thirds
v1.4
+ Show Spoiler +*Tank holes fixed
*Name lowercased
*now reads the initial 9 metals of "Mistborn" in description
v1.5
+ Show Spoiler +*Lobby Version Fixed
*Critter added to middle
*Picture not updated.
v1.6
+ Show Spoiler +*Tile space balancing : The bottom mains now should have equal spacing with the top mains.
Was done by :
1.)Setting the map to 128x130 dimension
2.)Filling in the 2 missing rows
3.)Copy/Paste the entire bottom half of map up two tiles
4.)Move the resources and doodads into proper position.
*Main picture updated. Other two not updated.
Download from this page.
Thoughts/comments/criticism/trolling?
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Sure is 1 base play all day long. No small choke so that means zerglings will rule this map.
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I don't think it'll be ruled by Zerglings, considering that the choke is probably the same size as Andromeda, and Zerglings were not the biggest factor in Zerg having so much success. I just think if the Zerg spawned adjacent to his/her opponent, builds like 2hatch muta would be much more effective.
Also, I think that the gas in the expo above/below the island expo can be shelled by tanks...
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Aesthetically I think it looks neat, but taking a third in nearly every matchup is going to be ridiculously hard with vertical spawns. That base feels so far away and super wide open.
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Yes i noticed this while playing a PvZ, forced the Z to take an expansion between the two mains which was easy to put pressure on. I could try blocking with some stacked PSI distruptors initially?
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did anyone else who has read Mistborn do a double take? 
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On July 23 2013 12:29 Crunchums wrote:did anyone else who has read Mistborn do a double take?
Now that you mention it I do haha
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On July 23 2013 11:43 CrystalDrag wrote:
Yes i noticed this while playing a PvZ, forced the Z to take an expansion between the two mains which was easy to put pressure on. I could try blocking with some stacked PSI distruptors initially?
If you are talking about our game yersterday, that was only because I wasn't concentrated, thought I was ZvT, thus got my 3rd at the cross spawn natural up late, and had no lings or colony up when your stupid first lot arrived...
So for Zerg it should definitely be alright, and T/P can easily just take the island as a 3rd.
However, I still feel cheated on, because 3 still has 1 mineral patch too less, compared to 9!
OK, forget about that, I did not look close enough. But 3 should have the minerals grouped 3 - 4, too, to balance out worker migration for those expos, anyway.
There are some issues with free spaces behind the formations at 6 and 12. First of, gas miners could get stuck (mainly 12, but also at 1 spot at 6), secondly opportunities for drops, (especially lurker drops) behind the minerals are way too different for those both positions (due to the different terrain types used). Maybe you can just move the whole formations some tiles towards the middle, and probably you should also put the geysers to a side position, even though that would give up the symmetry.
Those two changes combined would also fix tankability issues from the islands.
I uploaded a sketched out update for you.
You should also really start using fry's 128x126 symmetry comepensation trick, especially with low ground mains.
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looks like a very hard map to do muta harass on.
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Thanks for putting the effort in. New maps are always wlecome.
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@Crunchums and Birdie
I read that series too c:
@Freakling
if you see a scouting probe...
and I already got some fixes up ahead, but I'll look at your sketch.
@kerpal
tried to balance by having the middle open to flanks, and also the main Is on low ground.
@Greg_J
Thanks
@art_of_turtle
not as open as python...
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WOW top job man, really well done I love it. Nats are great, 3rds are ballanced (not too easy, not too hard, fair), centre's not just flat. How much of an effect does pixel-shifting the main minerals have, I've not seen that before but it must make it more fair. Loving the gas being useable for ling-proof naturals [:
Would it be possible to vertically squash the islands a bit to give a bit more space behind the middle expos? I can't wait to drop in the exposed corner of the main, just the right size and spot
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hmmm nice map really nice, it seems to me like siege tanks will be really strong on this map though due to all the ledges and low / high ground, unless I am viewing it incorrectly? Amazing job though really, I think this map looks very nice!
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You've come a long way from that little guy I met who was brand new to mapmaking 
I see many of my favorite elements from your very first maps in this one, although in a new light.
Very well done my friend.
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seems really sexy at a first glance. gj
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@biTl.man yes I am takijg some space from islands
@GGzerG siege tanks can be... But a large majority of center is rusty pit and the solar array which is unbuildable 
@3FFA thanks
@Techincs and know you know who I am? Xp thanks you
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Map Has Been Updated to v1.1
Changes are in the op
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very good looking map!
wish it was played at some higher levels !
it needs some testing, and promotion imo.
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Map Has Been Updated to v1.2
Changes are in the op
Will start to host on iCCup in the future
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that short air rush distance though.
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So I played a game on this map with a friend, and there seems to be a problem...
I couldn't land or make a CC in the island expos... T_T
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On July 25 2013 13:49 SynC[gm] wrote:
So I played a game on this map with a friend, and there seems to be a problem...
I couldn't land or make a CC in the island expos... T_T
Yea even mining out the mineral he couldn't place his CC down. Thanks for the easy victory CrystalDrag
#2baseterranisezwin
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On July 25 2013 13:49 SynC[gm] wrote:
So I played a game on this map with a friend, and there seems to be a problem...
I couldn't land or make a CC in the island expos... T_T
weird..
looks like there is more than enough space between the mineral lines..
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Yeah, it's the top expo, minerals are one tile to close to the middle on both sides...
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It's a good map though, figure some nice games could come from it. Even though this is the first time I've ever played on a BWMN map, I think this map can be featured in some leagues and it'll fit in fine.
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woops.. I guess I am too cocky I decided to place the minerals without an SL in the editor...
I will update it later tonight, thank you for trying it out
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On July 25 2013 20:30 SynC[gm] wrote:
It's a good map though, figure some nice games could come from it. Even though this is the first time I've ever played on a BWMN map, I think this map can be featured in some leagues and it'll fit in fine.
yes please !
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On July 26 2013 01:41 Sinedd wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2013 20:30 SynC[gm] wrote:
It's a good map though, figure some nice games could come from it. Even though this is the first time I've ever played on a BWMN map, I think this map can be featured in some leagues and it'll fit in fine. yes please !
Map Has Been Updated to v1.3
Map Has Been Updated to v1.4
Changes are in the op
Yes Please! :D
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admit it the only cool part about the map is that it is new. There are too many 4 player maps like this. The unique value to the map is very low.
*Terrain ; first map ever to use every possible different terrain for space.
COOL *sarcasm
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On July 26 2013 10:44 reps)squishy wrote:
admit it the only cool part about the map is that it is new. There are too many 4 player maps like this. The unique value to the map is very low.
*Terrain ; first map ever to use every possible different terrain for space.
COOL *sarcasm
Not really, VIN actually has some concepts from Zodiac and the ridges to go along with it. Name another 4 player map that has mineral placements like VIN does, can be walled off with two supply depots and a barracks in front of the natural, and any recent maps with island expos along with pseudo-neutral third expos?
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On July 26 2013 10:57 SynC[gm] wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2013 10:44 reps)squishy wrote:
admit it the only cool part about the map is that it is new. There are too many 4 player maps like this. The unique value to the map is very low.
*Terrain ; first map ever to use every possible different terrain for space.
COOL *sarcasm
Not really, VIN actually has some concepts from Zodiac and the ridges to go along with it. Name another 4 player map that has mineral placements like VIN does, can be walled off with two supply depots and a barracks in front of the natural, and any recent maps with island expos along with pseudo-neutral third expos?
Mineral placement on the map is unique but it is also a blunder. The mineral placement creates possible short air distance limiting the amount of viable strategies if given short air rush which will happen often.
Jade can be walled off with a barracks and two depots
Island expos are more novelties then anything and a huge advantage to Terran players. The 3rd being nearly impossible to take you might as well consider it not a viable base.
My Point: Many 4 player maps with these spawns expos why make the same map again with changes that barely effect the game. Just play on Andromeda or Python which has short air rush distance and islands with minerals blocking. Or Empire of the Sun.
Advice: Make a 2 player map with both mineral fields on the left and a perfect mirror no blatant imbalances. There are too many 4 player maps that look so much alike.
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On July 26 2013 12:14 reps)squishy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2013 10:57 SynC[gm] wrote:On July 26 2013 10:44 reps)squishy wrote:
admit it the only cool part about the map is that it is new. There are too many 4 player maps like this. The unique value to the map is very low.
*Terrain ; first map ever to use every possible different terrain for space.
COOL *sarcasm
Not really, VIN actually has some concepts from Zodiac and the ridges to go along with it. Name another 4 player map that has mineral placements like VIN does, can be walled off with two supply depots and a barracks in front of the natural, and any recent maps with island expos along with pseudo-neutral third expos? Mineral placement on the map is unique but it is also a blunder. The mineral placement creates possible short air distance limiting the amount of viable strategies if given short air rush which will happen often. Jade can be walled off with a barracks and two depots Island expos are more novelties then anything and a huge advantage to Terran players. The 3rd being nearly impossible to take you might as well consider it not a viable base. My Point: Many 4 player maps with these spawns expos why make the same map again with changes that barely effect the game. Just play on Andromeda or Python which has short air rush distance and islands with minerals blocking. Or Empire of the Sun. Advice: Make a 2 player map with both mineral fields on the left and a perfect mirror no blatant imbalances. There are too many 4 player maps that look so much alike.
You do realize that if you're using your argument, then whatever new map he makes that there will always be another map that has similarities to it that you'll simply point out; you'd just be contradicting yourself. Innovation can only come from so many different places, and really, the map he made is undoubtedly a change of pace from the map pool that is most often used in leagues.
As it is a 4-player map, it's not guaranteed that the opponent would spawn directly adjacent to the player, so why point the short mineral distances so negatively? And really, the close mineral distances are almost always over-exaggerated, as Python would be a Zerg-infested map, however, it's not. As for novelties, I guess they're not allowed? Gotta take away all the maps with novelties then! Island expos? Gone. Neutral buildings? Gone. And again, if island expos were a "huge" advantage to Terrans, wouldn't most maps with island expos be Terran-infested?
Why play FS when there's Neo Jade which makes it for an easy third? Plus, I was asking for a map that had ALL of the features I described, not just one feature that one specific map had.
Maybe it's just me, but you're either actively trying to put the map creator down for not going with the standard concept of getting an easy 3 bases, or you are seriously offended by the fact that the map is just a different pace than the ones that are fielded everyday.
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CrystalDrag is an amazing map maker. And your right I am not fond of a map that you can not get a 3rd up easy. I like the aggressiveness of the map.The part I am skeptical about is the quality of games it will produce. Anyway let the play be the verdict not our eyes.
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Thanks you for concerns, reps)squishy. But as SynC[gm] said, there is only a 1/3 chance that the close air will happen at all. As a mapmaker I feel like the lack of innovation in maps, such as always easy thirds, leads to rather boring similiar games among players. If there is a shorter air rush distance(horizontal spawns), players must adapt their "set in stone" build orders, such as getting earlier turrets, to compensate for say 2 hatch muta.
Also keep in mind while the 3 and 9 expansions have two entrances, one of these entrances is nearby to the natural, and easily closer to a rally point set in the rusty pit.
how I think expansion will flow:
cross spawns and horizontal : take the 3 and 9 thirds.
vertical : Z takes main horizontal to him, T and P takes the islands or the wide ramped expansion(two terrain level advantage, from rusty pit to platform and platform to catwalk/high platform.
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When one can see beyond superficial similarities, it is easy to realize that the natural setup alone is very unusual. The only other maps ever to use a high ground natural with a downwards ramped choke are (2)Chain Reaction and, less prominently, CrystalDrag's (2)Cross Game.
Having defender's terrain advantage will probably have the most impact in early to early mid game, not some variations in air distance.
Also, given a normal building placement from Zerg, the advantage, that Z can get, is 3 slightly earlier mutas from their main hatch in their opponent's main. 3 mutas can't do much against P or T, you'll have to wait for the mutas from your other hatches to arrive. Of course you can proxy your 3rd hatch, but P/T have a much easier time proxying Starports/gates. Overall the difference seems rather minute.
It's basically the same situation as vertical spawns in any axially symmetric 4-player map (like Ground Zero, Grand Line, Circuit Breaker ...), where air distances between nats are comparatively short. So if anything, this setup equalizes air-rush distances for all positional setups.
Finally, nothing is more trivial than changing the resource position in a main (those are huge! Much space to play around with), if there's an actual problem with it.
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On July 26 2013 23:59 Freakling wrote:
When one can see beyond superficial similarities, it is easy to realize that the natural setup alone is very unusual. The only other maps ever to use a high ground natural with a downwards ramped choke are (2)Chain Reaction and, less prominently, CrystalDrag's (2)Cross Game.
Having defender's terrain advantage will probably have the most impact in early to early mid game, not some variations in air distance.
Also, given a normal building placement from Zerg, the advantage, that Z can get, is 3 slightly earlier mutas from their main hatch in their opponent's main. 3 mutas can't do much against P or T, you'll have to wait for the mutas from your other hatches to arrive. Of course you can proxy your 3rd hatch, but P/T have a much easier time proxying Starports/gates. Overall the difference seems rather minute.
It's basically the same situation as vertical spawns in any axially symmetric 3-player map (like Ground Zero, Grand Line, Circuit Breaker ...), where air distances between nats are comparatively short. So if anything, this setup equalizes air-rush distances for all positional setups.
Finally, nothing is more trivial than changing the resource position in a main (those are huge! Much space to play around with), if there's an actual problem with it.
I was trying to keep myself from saying anything, but... Those three maps you listed are 4-player maps.
 Ground Zero
Grand Line
Circuit Breaker
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You should really refrain from the assumption that other people are stupid...
I hit the wrong number key, so what... Is there even a point, besides your trying to make something that suspiciously looks like a straw man attack?
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Very well handled you two
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Yeah, I like the map, its got a nice flow in the middle of the map, allowing for a lot of flanks, re positioning etc. Maps now a days tend to be either too constrained or just flat open ground.
edit: can the islands be hit by tanks positioned at the middle expos? Looks like it, not a complaint, just curious.
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On July 27 2013 05:57 Dazed_Spy wrote:Yeah, I like the map, its got a nice flow in the middle of the map, allowing for a lot of flanks, re positioning etc. Maps now a days tend to be either too constrained or just flat open ground. edit: can the islands be hit by tanks positioned at the middle expos? Looks like it, not a complaint, just curious.
Nice to point out fortes. I would like it if the islands could be hit cause that would make tvt a little more unique and give it a late game flavor.
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You forgot to change the map name to 1.4 in lobby room
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Map Has Been Updated to v1.5
Changes are in the op
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this map def. needs more recognition
go go go ! Promote !
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Nice, but I don't think that this map will hit the fans
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The fans are on the ceiling ._.
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Worshipped by mapmakers and players alike, from Asia all the way to North America, after many long hours of work, blood, tears, criticism, and trolling, we bring you (4)VIN!!!! This is the first map ever to use every single space terrain possible, promote early aggression and expansion, use islands, and even take in consideration changes in terrain throughout the map! Join us as we play this sexy map throughout iCCup, Fish, and Battle.net by downloading from this convenient LINK RIGHT HERE!!!
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You will do my advertising for me? ;D
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On August 03 2013 05:33 CrystalDrag wrote:
You will do my advertising for me? ;D
It isn't advertising. It's legalized lying.
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I love this map it has ramps and minerals and vespene
<3 <3 <3
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On August 03 2013 14:46 Taranok wrote:
I love this map it has ramps and minerals and vespene
<3 <3 <3
You need more Vespene Gas!
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this map is so good you should rename it (4) WIN!
<3<3<3
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Map Has Been Updated to v1.6
Changes are in the op
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United States2141 Posts
Sure it uses every space terrain type, but you can do better - make it use every individual tile in the tileset. :D
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/0mwfOHE.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/URoGqaO.jpg)
