EPT[Map](4)VIN - Page 2
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Mutaller
United States1051 Posts
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SynC[gm]
United States3127 Posts
I couldn't land or make a CC in the island expos... T_T | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On July 25 2013 13:49 SynC[gm] wrote: So I played a game on this map with a friend, and there seems to be a problem... I couldn't land or make a CC in the island expos... T_T Yea even mining out the mineral he couldn't place his CC down. Thanks for the easy victory CrystalDrag  #2baseterranisezwin | ||
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Sinedd
Poland7052 Posts
On July 25 2013 13:49 SynC[gm] wrote: So I played a game on this map with a friend, and there seems to be a problem... I couldn't land or make a CC in the island expos... T_T weird.. looks like there is more than enough space between the mineral lines.. | ||
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Freakling
Germany1534 Posts
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SynC[gm]
United States3127 Posts
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CrystalDrag
173 Posts
I will update it later tonight, thank you for trying it out  | ||
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Sinedd
Poland7052 Posts
On July 25 2013 20:30 SynC[gm] wrote: It's a good map though, figure some nice games could come from it. Even though this is the first time I've ever played on a BWMN map, I think this map can be featured in some leagues and it'll fit in fine. yes please !  | ||
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CrystalDrag
173 Posts
Map Has Been Updated to v1.3 Map Has Been Updated to v1.4 Changes are in the op Yes Please! :D | ||
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Mutaller
United States1051 Posts
*Terrain ; first map ever to use every possible different terrain for space. COOL *sarcasm | ||
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SynC[gm]
United States3127 Posts
On July 26 2013 10:44 reps)squishy wrote: admit it the only cool part about the map is that it is new. There are too many 4 player maps like this. The unique value to the map is very low. *Terrain ; first map ever to use every possible different terrain for space. COOL *sarcasm Not really, VIN actually has some concepts from Zodiac and the ridges to go along with it. Name another 4 player map that has mineral placements like VIN does, can be walled off with two supply depots and a barracks in front of the natural, and any recent maps with island expos along with pseudo-neutral third expos? | ||
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Mutaller
United States1051 Posts
On July 26 2013 10:57 SynC[gm] wrote: Not really, VIN actually has some concepts from Zodiac and the ridges to go along with it. Name another 4 player map that has mineral placements like VIN does, can be walled off with two supply depots and a barracks in front of the natural, and any recent maps with island expos along with pseudo-neutral third expos? Mineral placement on the map is unique but it is also a blunder. The mineral placement creates possible short air distance limiting the amount of viable strategies if given short air rush which will happen often. Jade can be walled off with a barracks and two depots Island expos are more novelties then anything and a huge advantage to Terran players. The 3rd being nearly impossible to take you might as well consider it not a viable base. My Point: Many 4 player maps with these spawns expos why make the same map again with changes that barely effect the game. Just play on Andromeda or Python which has short air rush distance and islands with minerals blocking. Or Empire of the Sun. Advice: Make a 2 player map with both mineral fields on the left and a perfect mirror no blatant imbalances. There are too many 4 player maps that look so much alike. | ||
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SynC[gm]
United States3127 Posts
On July 26 2013 12:14 reps)squishy wrote: Mineral placement on the map is unique but it is also a blunder. The mineral placement creates possible short air distance limiting the amount of viable strategies if given short air rush which will happen often. Jade can be walled off with a barracks and two depots Island expos are more novelties then anything and a huge advantage to Terran players. The 3rd being nearly impossible to take you might as well consider it not a viable base. My Point: Many 4 player maps with these spawns expos why make the same map again with changes that barely effect the game. Just play on Andromeda or Python which has short air rush distance and islands with minerals blocking. Or Empire of the Sun. Advice: Make a 2 player map with both mineral fields on the left and a perfect mirror no blatant imbalances. There are too many 4 player maps that look so much alike. You do realize that if you're using your argument, then whatever new map he makes that there will always be another map that has similarities to it that you'll simply point out; you'd just be contradicting yourself. Innovation can only come from so many different places, and really, the map he made is undoubtedly a change of pace from the map pool that is most often used in leagues. As it is a 4-player map, it's not guaranteed that the opponent would spawn directly adjacent to the player, so why point the short mineral distances so negatively? And really, the close mineral distances are almost always over-exaggerated, as Python would be a Zerg-infested map, however, it's not. As for novelties, I guess they're not allowed? Gotta take away all the maps with novelties then! Island expos? Gone. Neutral buildings? Gone. And again, if island expos were a "huge" advantage to Terrans, wouldn't most maps with island expos be Terran-infested? Why play FS when there's Neo Jade which makes it for an easy third? Plus, I was asking for a map that had ALL of the features I described, not just one feature that one specific map had. Maybe it's just me, but you're either actively trying to put the map creator down for not going with the standard concept of getting an easy 3 bases, or you are seriously offended by the fact that the map is just a different pace than the ones that are fielded everyday. | ||
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Mutaller
United States1051 Posts
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CrystalDrag
173 Posts
Also keep in mind while the 3 and 9 expansions have two entrances, one of these entrances is nearby to the natural, and easily closer to a rally point set in the rusty pit. how I think expansion will flow: cross spawns and horizontal : take the 3 and 9 thirds. vertical : Z takes main horizontal to him, T and P takes the islands or the wide ramped expansion(two terrain level advantage, from rusty pit to platform and platform to catwalk/high platform. | ||
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Freakling
Germany1534 Posts
Having defender's terrain advantage will probably have the most impact in early to early mid game, not some variations in air distance. Also, given a normal building placement from Zerg, the advantage, that Z can get, is 3 slightly earlier mutas from their main hatch in their opponent's main. 3 mutas can't do much against P or T, you'll have to wait for the mutas from your other hatches to arrive. Of course you can proxy your 3rd hatch, but P/T have a much easier time proxying Starports/gates. Overall the difference seems rather minute. It's basically the same situation as vertical spawns in any axially symmetric 4-player map (like Ground Zero, Grand Line, Circuit Breaker ...), where air distances between nats are comparatively short. So if anything, this setup equalizes air-rush distances for all positional setups. Finally, nothing is more trivial than changing the resource position in a main (those are huge! Much space to play around with), if there's an actual problem with it. | ||
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SynC[gm]
United States3127 Posts
On July 26 2013 23:59 Freakling wrote: When one can see beyond superficial similarities, it is easy to realize that the natural setup alone is very unusual. The only other maps ever to use a high ground natural with a downwards ramped choke are (2)Chain Reaction and, less prominently, CrystalDrag's (2)Cross Game. Having defender's terrain advantage will probably have the most impact in early to early mid game, not some variations in air distance. Also, given a normal building placement from Zerg, the advantage, that Z can get, is 3 slightly earlier mutas from their main hatch in their opponent's main. 3 mutas can't do much against P or T, you'll have to wait for the mutas from your other hatches to arrive. Of course you can proxy your 3rd hatch, but P/T have a much easier time proxying Starports/gates. Overall the difference seems rather minute. It's basically the same situation as vertical spawns in any axially symmetric 3-player map (like Ground Zero, Grand Line, Circuit Breaker ...), where air distances between nats are comparatively short. So if anything, this setup equalizes air-rush distances for all positional setups. Finally, nothing is more trivial than changing the resource position in a main (those are huge! Much space to play around with), if there's an actual problem with it. I was trying to keep myself from saying anything, but... Those three maps you listed are 4-player maps.  Ground ZeroGrand LineCircuit Breaker | ||
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Freakling
Germany1534 Posts
I hit the wrong number key, so what... Is there even a point, besides your trying to make something that suspiciously looks like a straw man attack? | ||
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SynC[gm]
United States3127 Posts
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3FFA
United States3931 Posts
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