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On May 27 2013 09:40 Golgotha wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2013 08:44 Crimson)S(hadow wrote:
IMO a new server would be pointless; what we need is unification. we need everyone to go to 1 server, like when everyone would go to USWest for everything from koreans/clanby, to bgh/fastest, ums,. it's also where a noob player is most likely to go to if they just buy the game and log on battlenet without reading about iccup from teamliquid.
now everyone is spread out in every which server, koreans going to fish/afreeca/ect, money mappers (bgh and fastest) at east server, foreigners going to iccup, and noobies logging on to a completely dead west server. adding a new server would only increase the problem of segregation
with a unified server, preferably one of the battlenets, it's much easier for more competitive players to influence newer players into playing non-money maps and DLing programs like chaoslauncher/wdet I don't think you understand the situation. how can you even think about going on one of blizzard's servers? lol I am very surprised. To your other point, yes it is splitting the community but ICCUP is giving us no choice. They haven't updated BW stuff in years and they have even banned casters of TLS over grudges. Initially, Bird will split the community, but once Bird stabilizes as a feature packed and efficient server, it will be the go to place for everyone and it will actually bring the community closer together than ever. Bird server will not disunite, it will unite in ways ICCUP could never achieve. Go Bird! Right now we are all like citizens of North Korea. We are stuck with one government (ICCUP) with no other alternative. We seem united and content, but that is because we do not know anything else other than Communism (ICCUP). We are scared of change because this is all we have known for so long. But in reality, there is something better out there, the BW scene (the people of North Korea) has so much more potential. We can do better than this dead beat husband we call ICCUP. Just give it a chance. Everyone wants to be able to host games and integrated matchmaking, how can you say no to this?!
the point is that it has to be easy for complete newcomers to join. new blood that buy the game don't necessarily know about teamliquid or iccup, and will join a battle.net server. and we are NOT united under ICCUP. there is the chinese server, several korean servers, iccup, and the battle.net servers. the reason BW seems more stagnant than it is is because our population is divided. adding a new server would only add to that problem, unless it can unify everyone; drawing in koreans and yet still being easy to access by clueless newcomers
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On May 27 2013 09:56 Crimson)S(hadow wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2013 09:40 Golgotha wrote:On May 27 2013 08:44 Crimson)S(hadow wrote:
IMO a new server would be pointless; what we need is unification. we need everyone to go to 1 server, like when everyone would go to USWest for everything from koreans/clanby, to bgh/fastest, ums,. it's also where a noob player is most likely to go to if they just buy the game and log on battlenet without reading about iccup from teamliquid.
now everyone is spread out in every which server, koreans going to fish/afreeca/ect, money mappers (bgh and fastest) at east server, foreigners going to iccup, and noobies logging on to a completely dead west server. adding a new server would only increase the problem of segregation
with a unified server, preferably one of the battlenets, it's much easier for more competitive players to influence newer players into playing non-money maps and DLing programs like chaoslauncher/wdet I don't think you understand the situation. how can you even think about going on one of blizzard's servers? lol I am very surprised. To your other point, yes it is splitting the community but ICCUP is giving us no choice. They haven't updated BW stuff in years and they have even banned casters of TLS over grudges. Initially, Bird will split the community, but once Bird stabilizes as a feature packed and efficient server, it will be the go to place for everyone and it will actually bring the community closer together than ever. Bird server will not disunite, it will unite in ways ICCUP could never achieve. Go Bird! Right now we are all like citizens of North Korea. We are stuck with one government (ICCUP) with no other alternative. We seem united and content, but that is because we do not know anything else other than Communism (ICCUP). We are scared of change because this is all we have known for so long. But in reality, there is something better out there, the BW scene (the people of North Korea) has so much more potential. We can do better than this dead beat husband we call ICCUP. Just give it a chance. Everyone wants to be able to host games and integrated matchmaking, how can you say no to this?! the point is that it has to be easy for complete newcomers to join. new blood that buy the game don't necessarily know about teamliquid or iccup, and will join a battle.net server. and we are NOT united under ICCUP. there is the chinese server, several korean servers, iccup, and the battle.net servers. the reason BW seems more stagnant than it is is because our population is divided. adding a new server would only add to that problem, unless it can unify everyone; drawing in koreans and yet still being easy to access by clueless newcomers
Be honest and tell me how many new bw players come every year? Not a whole lot...
It's impossible to unify everyone to a single server, unless we can force all private servers to die and magically persuade blizzard to shut down 3 of their servers and give us control of how it works, what you're suggesting isn't going to happen, period.
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Auto matchmaking is enough to get people to use the server. There are lots of people who get frustrated not being able to make games, if you can fix that your server will be popular.
What I ask is what you plan to do to prevent the mistakes that have fallen on iCCup. I don't remember if PGT had this sort of drama, or WGT before that. But I know that in this age, over a decade after BW has been released and its sequel has stolen some of its demographic, you will be short on admins. It is hard enough to find people willing to do the work of admins to begin with, let alone get a group of stable admins with strong principles. I can only think that restricting their powers will be of high importance, since iCCup seems to just have too many people with too much power not taking it seriously enough to be responsible and set aside their personal quibbles.
I don't know who foots the bill for iCCup, but I'm definitely grateful they've kept the server running so long. It's just a shame what it has become.
But like I said, if you can make a server where people who normally have lat issues can easily get games, it will be active. That is the one feature that makes BW most inaccessible to both new players and vets alike. If you take out the obstacle of people having to mess with their routers just to play games easily, I can definitely see a surge of players ready to take advantage. BW is fun, looking for games and screwing with ports is not.
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On May 27 2013 11:47 Chef wrote:
What I ask is what you plan to do to prevent the mistakes that have fallen on iCCup. I don't remember if PGT had this sort of drama, or WGT before that. But I know that in this age, over a decade after BW has been released and its sequel has stolen some of its demographic, you will be short on admins. It is hard enough to find people willing to do the work of admins to begin with, let alone get a group of stable admins with strong principles. I can only think that restricting their powers will be of high importance, since iCCup seems to just have too many people with too much power not taking it seriously enough to be responsible and set aside their personal quibbles.
Good post. For moderation, my 2 cents is that maybe new accounts could be restricted like they are on fish, so you couldn't play a ranked game until having been online some amount of time and/or having played some unranked games. That way, banned users would take longer to come back, making moderation hopefully take less time.
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On May 27 2013 13:05 blueblimp wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2013 11:47 Chef wrote:
What I ask is what you plan to do to prevent the mistakes that have fallen on iCCup. I don't remember if PGT had this sort of drama, or WGT before that. But I know that in this age, over a decade after BW has been released and its sequel has stolen some of its demographic, you will be short on admins. It is hard enough to find people willing to do the work of admins to begin with, let alone get a group of stable admins with strong principles. I can only think that restricting their powers will be of high importance, since iCCup seems to just have too many people with too much power not taking it seriously enough to be responsible and set aside their personal quibbles.
Good post. For moderation, my 2 cents is that maybe new accounts could be restricted like they are on fish, so you couldn't play a ranked game until having been online some amount of time and/or having played some unranked games. That way, banned users would take longer to come back, making moderation hopefully take less time.
the problem isn't the users, it's the mods
restricted new accounts would also discourage new players
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Belgium6786 Posts
On May 27 2013 11:47 Chef wrote:
Auto matchmaking is enough to get people to use the server. There are lots of people who get frustrated not being able to make games, if you can fix that your server will be popular.
The way I see it:
iccuplauncher enables ctrl + F (might be chaosplug that does this) which automatically opens the joinscreen and enters the gamename of the game your friend joined/created (you still need to press ok but its pretty handy already)
A truly easy matchfixing system would work by doing some command like /game or /automatch
which then just opens the joinscreen + gamename w a player close to your rank (you still need to press ok so if you see the mapname in the title you can still ignore it if you don't like it)
or just automatically creates a game if none are available
I'm assuming this should be doable from a programming standpoint and would work well enough. Who doesn't love /commands??
edit: and yesss. automatic port forwarding is a MUST
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On May 27 2013 13:30 Xeofreestyler wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2013 11:47 Chef wrote:
Auto matchmaking is enough to get people to use the server. There are lots of people who get frustrated not being able to make games, if you can fix that your server will be popular.
The way I see it: iccuplauncher enables ctrl + F (might be chaosplug that does this) which automatically opens the joinscreen and enters the gamename of the game your friend joined/created (you still need to press ok but its pretty handy already) A truly easy matchfixing system would work by doing some command like /game or /automatch which then just opens the joinscreen + gamename w a player close to your rank (you still need to press ok so if you see the mapname in the title you can still ignore it if you don't like it) or just automatically creates a game if none are available I'm assuming this should be doable from a programming standpoint and would work well enough. Who doesn't love /commands?? edit: and yesss. automatic port forwarding is a MUST
We've got something a bit more smooth than that planned ;D
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On May 24 2013 18:02 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
more important. only noobs and the banned players will agree with this -_- .the most logical is to fix the problems iccup tl ...
+1 but iccup will never be fixed unfortunately
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I was thinking about the issue of new players and as crimsonshadow was suggesting most people who just buy the game will arrive on the battle.net servers. Would it be feasible to run some bots on there to advertise the server? This might attract the ire of Blizzard, I dunno but I know that the Diablo 2 servers were plagued with bots and yours could be a lot less intrusive. Or is this the worst idea ever? =/
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On May 27 2013 15:20 MinscandBoo wrote:
I was thinking about the issue of new players and as crimsonshadow was suggesting most people who just buy the game will arrive on the battle.net servers. Would it be feasible to run some bots on there to advertise the server? This might attract the ire of Blizzard, I dunno but I know that the Diablo 2 servers were plagued with bots and yours could be a lot less intrusive. Or is this the worst idea ever? =/
I've considered doing that but I don't want to be over-intrusive. Perhaps just one bot on the games list hosting a game called something like New Server - Antihack, Matchmaking! Or something, with the username being the site address, and if you join it tells you more information. But word of mouth will be the biggest help, if everyone who gets involved tells everyone else at launch then a lot of people will hear about it.
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On May 27 2013 09:56 Crimson)S(hadow wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2013 09:40 Golgotha wrote:On May 27 2013 08:44 Crimson)S(hadow wrote:
IMO a new server would be pointless; what we need is unification. we need everyone to go to 1 server, like when everyone would go to USWest for everything from koreans/clanby, to bgh/fastest, ums,. it's also where a noob player is most likely to go to if they just buy the game and log on battlenet without reading about iccup from teamliquid.
now everyone is spread out in every which server, koreans going to fish/afreeca/ect, money mappers (bgh and fastest) at east server, foreigners going to iccup, and noobies logging on to a completely dead west server. adding a new server would only increase the problem of segregation
with a unified server, preferably one of the battlenets, it's much easier for more competitive players to influence newer players into playing non-money maps and DLing programs like chaoslauncher/wdet I don't think you understand the situation. how can you even think about going on one of blizzard's servers? lol I am very surprised. To your other point, yes it is splitting the community but ICCUP is giving us no choice. They haven't updated BW stuff in years and they have even banned casters of TLS over grudges. Initially, Bird will split the community, but once Bird stabilizes as a feature packed and efficient server, it will be the go to place for everyone and it will actually bring the community closer together than ever. Bird server will not disunite, it will unite in ways ICCUP could never achieve. Go Bird! Right now we are all like citizens of North Korea. We are stuck with one government (ICCUP) with no other alternative. We seem united and content, but that is because we do not know anything else other than Communism (ICCUP). We are scared of change because this is all we have known for so long. But in reality, there is something better out there, the BW scene (the people of North Korea) has so much more potential. We can do better than this dead beat husband we call ICCUP. Just give it a chance. Everyone wants to be able to host games and integrated matchmaking, how can you say no to this?! the point is that it has to be easy for complete newcomers to join. new blood that buy the game don't necessarily know about teamliquid or iccup, and will join a battle.net server. and we are NOT united under ICCUP. there is the chinese server, several korean servers, iccup, and the battle.net servers. the reason BW seems more stagnant than it is is because our population is divided. adding a new server would only add to that problem, unless it can unify everyone; drawing in koreans and yet still being easy to access by clueless newcomers
Yeah because so many people are buying the game 15 years after it was released. A part of the plan from what I understand is also to market the new features like the auto matchmaking to the people who have either left ICCUP because of their distaste and people outside the BW playerbase. I am pretty sure a couple of players who havent necessarily tried BW would try it because of the more streamlined process.
Ohh and ICCUP has been doing really retarded things as of late such as banning regions even countries to prevent one player from playing etc etc.
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On May 27 2013 15:20 MinscandBoo wrote:
I was thinking about the issue of new players and as crimsonshadow was suggesting most people who just buy the game will arrive on the battle.net servers. Would it be feasible to run some bots on there to advertise the server? This might attract the ire of Blizzard, I dunno but I know that the Diablo 2 servers were plagued with bots and yours could be a lot less intrusive. Or is this the worst idea ever? =/
The thing is, it wouldn't be a good use of the resources, time, and energy we have to try to appeal to people who buy the game in 2013 and want to start BW. The fact is, there is very few people who would buy BW right now. It just isn't the demographic we should be focusing on. Instead, we should focus on what we have now and have our community grow first and spark newcomer interest via websites like TL. We don't want people to buy the game from Blizzard and only hear about the game through Blizzard. Most people who do will probably not be interested in 1v1 and the BW scene. We want people to find out about the game from the real community instead and have us show them how to get into the scene. That way, we keep them in the community and our community can grow in the meantime.
Having new blood is important, but we want to attract the newcomers the right way so we can get that certain kind of newcomer who wants to know more of the beauty of BW (whether that be 1v1, 2v2, BGH, or whatever) It might be a paradox, but we need hardcore newcomers. BW is not a new game that has the luxury of exposure and hype, but we don't need this. We just need a single place where people can go to play BW for fun and skill up by learning how the game is truly played.
If our core community as of now grows and is strengthened, it will be better for newcomers in the long run since they now have a real community to rely on and learn from.
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i tried last weekened to get 2 of my friends to play BW, but after hours of fiddling around with the different programs and ip settings they just gave up and went back to playing SC2. they were more than open to the idea but it wasn't worth the trouble.
build it and they will come.
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On May 27 2013 16:10 Gamegene wrote:
i tried last weekened to get 2 of my friends to play BW, but after hours of fiddling around with the different programs and ip settings they just gave up and went back to playing SC2. they were more than open to the idea but it wasn't worth the trouble.
build it and they will come.
what different programs and what IP settings?
at worst, all you need to do is forward your ports, it's really not as bad as people make it out to be; lan is amazing if you are physically together
you don't need wlauncher or iccup if all you want is a casual game between friends who are newbies, any bnet gateway works just fine. the lan lat stuff is nice to have but ultimately won't matter at all to people who are just starting
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On May 27 2013 16:55 Cambium wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2013 16:10 Gamegene wrote:
i tried last weekened to get 2 of my friends to play BW, but after hours of fiddling around with the different programs and ip settings they just gave up and went back to playing SC2. they were more than open to the idea but it wasn't worth the trouble.
build it and they will come. what different programs and what IP settings? at worst, all you need to do is forward your ports, it's really not as bad as people make it out to be; lan is amazing if you are physically together you don't need wlauncher or iccup if all you want is a casual game between friends who are newbies, any bnet gateway works just fine. the lan lat stuff is nice to have but ultimately won't matter at all to people who are just starting
for some people forwarding the ports is not doable or difficult. sometimes it doesn't work even if you follow all directions to a T. Port forwarding is not at worst, it is the worst.
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Alright, Here's what the server needs to be like.
There needs to be a big "DOWNLOAD" button in the middle on the main page of the website. And the person downloads the BW package, double clicks on it and it auto installs, and there is a SHORTCUT ON HIS DESKTOP, done. Then he double clicks the shortcut, launches BW from the launcher(again, launcher needs to AUTOMATICALLY start BW, without testing the short patience of a new player) chooses multiplayer and battle net, and THE SERVER IS ALREADY LISTED AND CHOSEN. No manual reg-file bullshit. And he makes an account through b-net interface of the game. NO WEBSITE INTERACTION has to be necessary, WE CANNOT TEST THEIR PATIENCE or we will lose the player.
Also, the download package has to be updated to contain the newest versions of the main maps all the time. We cannot test the patience of the player by insisting them to download extra stuff from the website, this will not work.
The Iccup server fails on all these terms. But if we want to get new players, the server needs to HAVE THESE FEATURES, PERIOD. Any effort for matchmaking, port forwarding, anti cheat engines etc is COMPLETELY WASTED if the server cannot meet the points i described above.
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On May 27 2013 16:55 Cambium wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2013 16:10 Gamegene wrote:
i tried last weekened to get 2 of my friends to play BW, but after hours of fiddling around with the different programs and ip settings they just gave up and went back to playing SC2. they were more than open to the idea but it wasn't worth the trouble.
build it and they will come. what different programs and what IP settings? at worst, all you need to do is forward your ports, it's really not as bad as people make it out to be; lan is amazing if you are physically together you don't need wlauncher or iccup if all you want is a casual game between friends who are newbies, any bnet gateway works just fine. the lan lat stuff is nice to have but ultimately won't matter at all to people who are just starting
they had no idea how to get the iccup server showing on their server list or run any of the launchers
like they didn't want to play for shits and giggles they wanted to give it an honest try but they were just completely clueless.
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Call the server Wings - Server on the Run.
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On May 27 2013 18:00 Gamegene wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2013 16:55 Cambium wrote:On May 27 2013 16:10 Gamegene wrote:
i tried last weekened to get 2 of my friends to play BW, but after hours of fiddling around with the different programs and ip settings they just gave up and went back to playing SC2. they were more than open to the idea but it wasn't worth the trouble.
build it and they will come. what different programs and what IP settings? at worst, all you need to do is forward your ports, it's really not as bad as people make it out to be; lan is amazing if you are physically together you don't need wlauncher or iccup if all you want is a casual game between friends who are newbies, any bnet gateway works just fine. the lan lat stuff is nice to have but ultimately won't matter at all to people who are just starting they had no idea how to get the iccup server showing on their server list or run any of the launchers like they didn't want to play for shits and giggles they wanted to give it an honest try but they were just completely clueless.
Exactly, this is why it needs to be a completely streamlined solution that we create. Download, install, done. All hassles have to be removed, everything as straightforward as possible
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Sounds cool, gogo 
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EPT
