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Best 2v2 Foreign Zergs

Forum Index > BW General
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Wgtourmaps
Profile Joined September 2012
Niger82 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-20 02:32:27
September 13 2012 00:50 GMT
#1
Best 2v2 Foreign Zergs

Who do you think is the best 2v2 foreign Zerg(s)? Can anyone describe the style of play of any of the players? In 2v2, at the top level of play, all teams have at least 1 Zerg.

Why are 2v2 Foreign Zergs entertaining?
I like watching 2v2 Zergs and 2v2 dual Zerg teams because in their best games they do things that would be impossible for a Zerg player in 1v1. Some games, when there is only 1 Zerg on each team, Zergs may have as little as 5 Drones mining minerals in anticipation of Mutas versus Mutas. A Zerg like Belladona in a ZT vs ZZ or ZP vs ZZ game uses offensive Nydus Canals, Dark Swarm, and Zerglings off 1 gas to reduce the amount of expansions the dual Zerg team takes. Similarly, players like Babo use defensive Nydus Canals in a ZZ vs ZT game to save their ally from an M&M ball. In 2v2, the old Tsunami build actually works when there are only 3 players remaining. If it is 2 Zergs vs 1 Zerg, 1 Zerg may do the Tsunami Build (Hydras/Ensnare off 1 gas) vs Mutalisks. Simarly, the other Zerg might go 1gas Devourers/Guardians. In a 2v2 game, Ensnare might be used to help chase down an enemy's Mutalisk stack, Plagued Science Vessels, in addition to negating a Terran's stimpack. In a 2v2 game where there is a dual Zerg team and a Terran, plague is used as frequently as it is used in a ZvT 1v1 game. In a dual Zerg team, players might go Hydra/Defiler's with Plague, off 1 or 2 gases, vs M&M or Goliaths or Mutalisks. It is cool to see Hydra/Plague builds work in 2v2 where they would utterly fail in a 1v1 game. In summary, it is always epic to watch a ZP or ZT team defy the odds against a dual Zerg team.

Below I have included a list of most of the best 2v2 foreign Zergs. Who are the best players? What style do they have? Who are the better Polish Zergs? Do Westside, Nyana, Xiazoi and LJT deserve a spot on the list? You may say some player sucks, but these are all A+ players...

Nizzy (Legend)
Xiaozi (Legend)
Westside (Legend)
Belladona (Legend) ( Epic Replay! http://repdepot.net/replay.php?id=51719 )
Yan's Offrace Zerg (Legend)

Babo (Near Legend) ( Epic Replay! http://repdepot.net/replay.php?id=51720 )
Scan's Offrace Zerg (Near Legend)
Trutacz (Near Legend)

Nyana (Retired)
Diestar (Retired)
Skyless (Retired)
Mondragon (Retired)
Moonshine (Retired)

Baga (Decent Modern Zerg)
Stoprocent aka Sto-_-Pro aka Lurek aka Methoda (Modern Zerg)
Southpark (Decent Modern Zerg)
Viciado aka Depleted (Decent Modern Zerg)
Plus (Decent Modern Zerg)
FeatJoe aka Bonus (Decent Modern Zerg)
Dark (Decent Modern Zerg)
FlaF (Retired Decent Modern Zerg)
i am plus
Profile Joined October 2011
United States190 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-13 00:58:49
September 13 2012 00:53 GMT
#2
damn thats a good list of people ive owned

also these polish zergs dont hold a candle to westside or xaiozi or ljt they just all retired and faded away

they just polish zergs all play alot when these players quit so they are getting high ranks
and if u go back and look at their iccup accts ull see that all them where B- B max when all the good players played.
sM.Zik
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada2553 Posts
September 13 2012 00:57 GMT
#3
Why Xiaozi wouldn't deserve his spot!? The best 2v2 players I know, but my knowledge on the 2v2 is limited I must say.
Jaedong Fighting! | youtube.com/ZikGaming
ShaLLoW[baY]
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada12499 Posts
September 13 2012 01:07 GMT
#4
i remember bming xiaozi in a ums pub once

also wasn't yan zerg? or was he toss?
ALEXISONFIRE ARE FUCKING BACK (sAviOr for life)
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
September 13 2012 01:12 GMT
#5
On September 13 2012 10:07 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
i remember bming xiaozi in a ums pub once

also wasn't yan zerg? or was he toss?


Saw him as Toss.
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
hacklebeast
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5090 Posts
September 13 2012 01:38 GMT
#6
what an oddly specific question.
Protoss: Best, Paralyze, Jangbi, Nal_Ra || Terran: Oov, Boxer, Fantasy, Hiya|| Zerg: Yellow, Zero
Assault_1
Profile Joined April 2009
Canada1950 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-13 01:48:14
September 13 2012 01:47 GMT
#7
Scan forsure

edit: idk if he plays zerg 2v2
LuMiX
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
China5757 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-13 01:58:14
September 13 2012 01:55 GMT
#8
It's hard to compare zergs that quit to zergs that are active now. LJT wasn't really a zerg, so he doesn't belong there. Even if he was a zerg, he wouldn't be on the list. Why do you have Terran players on that list. Do you even know the people you have there? lol...

edit- You are missing Diestar, polish zerg. Also missing Skyless from croatia. Westside, Skyless, Diestar probably the 3 zergs I miss allying the most.
Wgtourmaps
Profile Joined September 2012
Niger82 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-13 02:01:48
September 13 2012 02:01 GMT
#9
Why do you have Terran players on that list. Do you even know the people you have there?

It seems your inactivity has gotten the best of you. Stoprocent, FeatJoe, Energy, and Babo have been offracing recently as Terran for fun.
LuMiX
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
China5757 Posts
September 13 2012 02:04 GMT
#10
Energy is Terran, he doesn't play zerg at all...
Wgtourmaps
Profile Joined September 2012
Niger82 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-13 02:12:20
September 13 2012 02:12 GMT
#11
So who are the other Terran players.....?
LuMiX
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
China5757 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-13 02:24:37
September 13 2012 02:15 GMT
#12
No one, but LJT definitely isn't considered a zerg.

edit- what is there to confirm? lol I've played with every single person you listed. xD
Wgtourmaps
Profile Joined September 2012
Niger82 Posts
September 13 2012 02:16 GMT
#13
I will fix my errors, after I confirm them. Thanks for the help.
NbSky
Profile Joined August 2007
Canada1023 Posts
September 13 2012 04:05 GMT
#14
Easily Bella <3
Sandstorm@USEast | The Last Pride [EviL] GW2 | Nb.Sky
dRaW
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada5744 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-13 04:39:09
September 13 2012 04:38 GMT
#15
No offense but this thread seems really weird, you have a list of best 2v2 foreign zergs which is 15 players. This means that you would have probably a list of 50-60 or so total players (if you go 15 of each + some random or race pickers). This concludes that you have just added about any 2v2 player who has ever played and gotten an A rank.

In short, most people don't deserve to be on that list if you are choosing the best 2v2 players. imo any current 2v2 player in the past 2 years who has gotten an A rank or so shouldn't be on the list because 2v2 now is a lot about abusing the ladder in the first place since there is a very limited selection of opponents (and yeah I've seen plenty of people dodging on various 2s streams)
Best zerg on that list currently is either trutacz nizzy or scan, but you are missing lots of the CN 2v2 players and Xiaozi+ LJT were better than most on the list.
I don't need luck, luck is for noobs, good luck to you though
Wgtourmaps
Profile Joined September 2012
Niger82 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-13 05:29:55
September 13 2012 05:26 GMT
#16
On September 13 2012 13:38 dRaW wrote:
No offense but this thread seems really weird, you have a list of best 2v2 foreign zergs which is 15 players. This means that you would have probably a list of 50-60 or so total players (if you go 15 of each + some random or race pickers). This concludes that you have just added about any 2v2 player who has ever played and gotten an A rank.

In short, most people don't deserve to be on that list if you are choosing the best 2v2 players. imo any current 2v2 player in the past 2 years who has gotten an A rank or so shouldn't be on the list because 2v2 now is a lot about abusing the ladder in the first place since there is a very limited selection of opponents (and yeah I've seen plenty of people dodging on various 2s streams)
Best zerg on that list currently is either trutacz nizzy or scan, but you are missing lots of the CN 2v2 players and Xiaozi+ LJT were better than most on the list.

dRaW because it 2v2, most good players play Zerg anyway. There are hardly any good T's or P's left. Everyone on this list has gotten A+, or the equivalent in a few years a go, a fact you wouldn't know being a 1v1 player yourself. It seems like you have some sort of EGOMANIAC problem if you just join streams to see who is dodging. Also, the fact you forgot to mention the best 2v2er Zerg ever, Belladona, makes me suspect you don't know much about 2v2.
reps)Defi
Profile Joined September 2007
Russian Federation337 Posts
September 13 2012 05:58 GMT
#17
how the f belladona can be #1 in this list, i think he's not even in top10. o_O
in my opinion, current top5 are: nizzy, Scan, trutaCz, Yan and someone from Dark/SP/Lurek/Baga/...
legends (who doesnt play now at all) top5 are westside, Xiaozi, Mondragon, nyana and maybe DieStar (he was rly good Z)


top5 terran of icc history (including koreans) are: Capi, Jesus, Scan, Member, existminizerg
Hard to tell about tosses, since I remember only Yan and family]a[bc and a guy with id KUK
Bill Murray
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States9292 Posts
September 13 2012 06:20 GMT
#18
Mondragon
University of Kentucky Basketball #1
Wgtourmaps
Profile Joined September 2012
Niger82 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-13 06:23:19
September 13 2012 06:20 GMT
#19
I think you have bias against A++ Belladona >_<. I added Yan as offrace Zerg. I don't think Mondragon did much in 2v2 besides finish 1st place in two seasons of WGTour. I'm opened to be proven wrong though, and I will change my mind.
Sinedd
Profile Joined July 2008
Poland7052 Posts
September 13 2012 06:21 GMT
#20
Lurek and Stoprocent no doubt
T H C makes ppl happy
LuMiX
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
China5757 Posts
September 13 2012 06:39 GMT
#21
Agree with defi on current top 5. same with people who quit although skyless should replace nyana imo. He knows all the old players like me.

ps- stopro is lurek..southpark is not.
Bill Murray
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States9292 Posts
September 13 2012 09:26 GMT
#22
What do you consider Foreign? Does Sen count?
University of Kentucky Basketball #1
Bill Murray
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States9292 Posts
September 13 2012 09:26 GMT
#23
"not doing much in 2v2" =/= "could be the best foreign zerg in 2v2"
University of Kentucky Basketball #1
Bill Murray
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States9292 Posts
September 13 2012 09:31 GMT
#24
TESTIE OFFRACING IS BETTER THAN THIS LIST FFS.
University of Kentucky Basketball #1
idegelchik
Profile Joined September 2012
Russian Federation382 Posts
September 13 2012 09:37 GMT
#25
Mondragon best 2x2 zerg
Shiragaku
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Hong Kong4308 Posts
September 13 2012 09:42 GMT
#26
Is ZvZ still illegal or looked down upon?
Sinedd
Profile Joined July 2008
Poland7052 Posts
September 13 2012 09:51 GMT
#27
On September 13 2012 18:42 Shiragaku wrote:
Is ZvZ still illegal or looked down upon?

well it should be because its fucking imba xD
T H C makes ppl happy
kOllaps
Profile Joined September 2012
3 Posts
September 13 2012 09:52 GMT
#28
On September 13 2012 15:20 Wgtourmaps wrote:
I think you have bias against A++ Belladona >_<. I added Yan as offrace Zerg. I don't think Mondragon did much in 2v2 besides finish 1st place in two seasons of WGTour. I'm opened to be proven wrong though, and I will change my mind.

Man back in old BW clan wars, they used the old Proleague format - 4x 1v1, 1x 2v2. Basically Mondi / Testie were always free wins in 2s for ToT. Testie stopped playing and that's when they recruited your beloved Belladonna. Didn't really work out, so they recruit LJT to partner Xiaozi and it stabilised a bit.
TaShadan
Profile Joined February 2010
Germany1981 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-13 10:02:15
September 13 2012 10:00 GMT
#29
mondi + testie were the best
diestar legend? when i was active he was not good he must have increased alot later
Total Annihilation Zero
Game
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
3191 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-13 10:26:12
September 13 2012 10:21 GMT
#30
If Dark is on that list, Caihong and anyone who plays like those two should be as well. "So here's the game plan: make a lot of Zerglings." "And then?" "There's an and then?"

Edit: MgZ)BluE played P and Z in 2v2 depending on his ally. He was always 3rd or 4th on iCCup's ladder ranking and won almost every CW for MgZ) in 2v2 with random allies.

Edit 2: Capi's offrace is better than every single person you listed. On that note, valkyrie, Yan's old Korean Zerg ally. Or even core, who cares. Your list has flaws ijs.
SC is like sex. You should play often, but never too hard. And you should only try hard when it matters.
LuMiX
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
China5757 Posts
September 13 2012 14:03 GMT
#31
Well he said foreign, so core, valk shouldn't be there. and valkyrie is T main afaik. Who was mgz)blue? was that hung?
Pads
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
England3228 Posts
September 13 2012 15:24 GMT
#32
Mondi or Testie.
#1 Kwanro[saM] fan!
TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada10037 Posts
September 13 2012 15:42 GMT
#33
nyana should be top3 on your list
ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
Boblion
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
France8043 Posts
September 13 2012 16:19 GMT
#34
On September 13 2012 19:21 Game wrote:
Edit: MgZ)BluE played P and Z in 2v2 depending on his ally. He was always 3rd or 4th on iCCup's ladder ranking and won almost every CW for MgZ) in 2v2 with random allies.

With random allies like Tronic, Hungtran and Oldy ? :D
fuck all those elitists brb watching streams of elite players.
laLAlA[uC]
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Canada963 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-13 18:03:11
September 13 2012 18:02 GMT
#35
Me.

I joke. I'm a Yan and Xaoxi fanboy.
I'm an old man now
dRaW
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada5744 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-13 19:50:58
September 13 2012 19:48 GMT
#36
On September 13 2012 14:58 reps)Defi wrote:
how the f belladona can be #1 in this list, i think he's not even in top10. o_O
in my opinion, current top5 are: nizzy, Scan, trutaCz, Yan and someone from Dark/SP/Lurek/Baga/...
legends (who doesnt play now at all) top5 are westside, Xiaozi, Mondragon, nyana and maybe DieStar (he was rly good Z)


top5 terran of icc history (including koreans) are: Capi, Jesus, Scan, Member, existminizerg
Hard to tell about tosses, since I remember only Yan and family]a[bc and a guy with id KUK

thx for support I agree with you. And to the thread maker, I don't need to play 2v2 to know Bella can't muta micro or that plus only gets A+ because of current conditions, no offense to him he improved a lot but doesn't have the mechanics to take on real 2s players in earlier times. Also you should consider defis words he's been 2v2in forever
I don't need luck, luck is for noobs, good luck to you though
Game
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
3191 Posts
September 13 2012 20:01 GMT
#37
On September 13 2012 14:58 reps)Defi wrote:
top5 terran of icc history (including koreans) are:Capi, Jesus, Scan, Member, existminizerg

Same person.
SC is like sex. You should play often, but never too hard. And you should only try hard when it matters.
Wgtourmaps
Profile Joined September 2012
Niger82 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-13 20:15:33
September 13 2012 20:15 GMT
#38
Can someone please tell me more about Diestar/Skyless? I am interested in adding them to the list.

thx for support I agree with you. And to the thread maker, I don't need to play 2v2 to know Bella can't muta micro

That is hilariously misinformed.

mondi + testie were the best

These guys were NOT consistently top 2v2 ladder players. They only were known for win streaks on and off clan league, and only have a lot of fans.
Yaqoob
Profile Blog Joined March 2005
Canada3389 Posts
September 13 2012 20:19 GMT
#39
I think Mondragon and Testie went 61-0 or something on PGT in 2v2's using ZZ
김택용 Fighting!
LuMiX
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
China5757 Posts
September 13 2012 20:28 GMT
#40
Diestar was an A+ zerg from poland. He use to play when all the good players like capi, existmini, core, etc played. Skyless same case A+ croatia played back in the day.

To game - capi and existminizerg are not the same.
Wgtourmaps
Profile Joined September 2012
Niger82 Posts
September 13 2012 22:21 GMT
#41
Can someone tell me more about Westside/Nyana, and if they had a certain playstyle.
wimpwimpwimp
Profile Joined May 2012
171 Posts
September 14 2012 12:41 GMT
#42
Anyone got rep-packs with any of these players?
Wgtourmaps
Profile Joined September 2012
Niger82 Posts
September 14 2012 16:45 GMT
#43
On September 14 2012 21:41 wimpwimpwimp wrote:
Anyone got rep-packs with any of these players?

In the OP (Original Post), I have uploaded replays I thought were representative of some of the best I've seen in various reppacks I've gotten.
Casstiael
Profile Joined November 2011
2 Posts
September 14 2012 17:37 GMT
#44
On September 14 2012 07:21 Wgtourmaps wrote:
Can someone tell me more about Westside/Nyana, and if they had a certain playstyle.



I remember playing vs them c+/b- level (t.t) and westside was kind of safe build/wait for mistakes and kill you kind of guy and nyana always rushed me and killed with lings T_T , maybe vs better teams they played different but its what I remember
lastshadow
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States1372 Posts
September 14 2012 17:42 GMT
#45
XiaoZi did not retire, he moved to China and will play in china's OSL.
Patience is a small price to pay for perfection.
oovv
Profile Joined March 2008
366 Posts
September 14 2012 17:48 GMT
#46
On September 13 2012 09:53 i am plus wrote:
damn thats a good list of people ive owned

also these polish zergs dont hold a candle to westside or xaiozi or ljt they just all retired and faded away

they just polish zergs all play alot when these players quit so they are getting high ranks
and if u go back and look at their iccup accts ull see that all them where B- B max when all the good players played.


So were you.. not even B player back then tbh
Oops.. i did it again
oovv
Profile Joined March 2008
366 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-14 18:18:41
September 14 2012 17:50 GMT
#47
also the list miss ShadoW (later Wraiths). Imho Diestar + ShadoW was the very top team when 2v2 ladder was actualy worth something. Maybe FlaF should have been listed as well, no doubt he was very good A above player. What about Jae? or Aristeo, moonshine? Damn.. there were so many good players back then lol
Oops.. i did it again
wimpwimpwimp
Profile Joined May 2012
171 Posts
September 15 2012 08:38 GMT
#48
On September 15 2012 01:45 Wgtourmaps wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2012 21:41 wimpwimpwimp wrote:
Anyone got rep-packs with any of these players?

In the OP (Original Post), I have uploaded replays I thought were representative of some of the best I've seen in various reppacks I've gotten.


Great, thanks a lot!

Although next time make it a .zip with couple of of hundreds of reps -_-.
Wgtourmaps
Profile Joined September 2012
Niger82 Posts
September 15 2012 15:16 GMT
#49
I added FlaF to list. Others please let me know if oovv's suggestions should be added.
oovv
Profile Joined March 2008
366 Posts
September 15 2012 15:38 GMT
#50
everyone i listed was much better then skyless lol ~.~
Oops.. i did it again
JieXian
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Malaysia4677 Posts
September 15 2012 17:02 GMT
#51
On September 13 2012 18:52 kOllaps wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2012 15:20 Wgtourmaps wrote:
I think you have bias against A++ Belladona >_<. I added Yan as offrace Zerg. I don't think Mondragon did much in 2v2 besides finish 1st place in two seasons of WGTour. I'm opened to be proven wrong though, and I will change my mind.

Man back in old BW clan wars, they used the old Proleague format - 4x 1v1, 1x 2v2. Basically Mondi / Testie were always free wins in 2s for ToT. Testie stopped playing and that's when they recruited your beloved Belladonna. Didn't really work out, so they recruit LJT to partner Xiaozi and it stabilised a bit.


oh why did they take 2v2 away?
Please send me a PM of any song you like that I most probably never heard of! I am looking for people to chat about writing and producing music | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noD-bsOcxuU |
Pucca
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Taiwan1280 Posts
September 15 2012 18:51 GMT
#52
Scan is uber good. Never seen Yan play personally but top player on iCCup Ladder for quite sometime. He still might be.
Master Chief
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10420 Posts
September 15 2012 21:00 GMT
#53
BELLADONAAA :D (goo)
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
Wgtourmaps
Profile Joined September 2012
Niger82 Posts
September 16 2012 02:39 GMT
#54
@Lumix/Defi: Do any of the players ShadoW, Jae, Aristeo, or moonshine deserve to be added?
LuMiX
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
China5757 Posts
September 16 2012 03:07 GMT
#55
You can add them if you are going to keep the bottom section of your list. But by no means was Shadow the top 2v2 team ever. That's laughable, he was good, but no where near the best. I have no clue who Jae is so I can't say much about him. Aristeo/Cubert were a ok 2v2 russian team that's all I remember of them. Moonshine had good micro/macro.
Wgtourmaps
Profile Joined September 2012
Niger82 Posts
September 16 2012 03:22 GMT
#56
I will add Moonshine/Mondragon now, unless anyone recommends against doing so.

Sidenote: You can see why players like Belladona retire when so many players insult him. I've seen enough of his replays to know he is a much higher class player when compared to today's.
Gandalf
Profile Joined August 2004
Pakistan1905 Posts
September 16 2012 05:10 GMT
#57
You seem incredibly biased in favor of Belladona, lol. It feels like you made this thread not to generate an actual discussion on the topic, but find like minded people to extol Belladon's skill.

Overall, I would say Mondi + Testie were the best 2v2 zergs. Afaik they dominated the 2v2 scene like no other team has.
i am plus
Profile Joined October 2011
United States190 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-16 05:13:33
September 16 2012 05:13 GMT
#58
freeclick, rush best doulbe 9pool players~!
Wgtourmaps
Profile Joined September 2012
Niger82 Posts
September 16 2012 06:08 GMT
#59
On September 16 2012 14:10 Gandalf wrote:
You seem incredibly biased in favor of Belladona, lol. It feels like you made this thread not to generate an actual discussion on the topic, but find like minded people to extol Belladon's skill.

Overall, I would say Mondi + Testie were the best 2v2 zergs. Afaik they dominated the 2v2 scene like no other team has.

It is common knowledge Testie was a known hacker most of his career, and probably an unknown hacker for portions off the rest of it. It is uncommon knowledge that allies gravitate to a map hacker like Testie to have the winningest win rates possible They werent around when the best teams were, and don't have prolonged 2v2 results.
Gandalf
Profile Joined August 2004
Pakistan1905 Posts
September 16 2012 14:09 GMT
#60
So Testie hacked even after he had proven himself clean in offline events, and Mondi played 2v2 with him because he knew he hacked and wanted the winningest win rates possible? Alright...
LuMiX
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
China5757 Posts
September 16 2012 14:19 GMT
#61
yeah, that was a dumb post wgtourmaps. :o
i am plus
Profile Joined October 2011
United States190 Posts
September 16 2012 22:04 GMT
#62
get out the pitch forks i heard metal hacks on his stream puts up fake mini map, u heard it here first!
elKaDor
Profile Joined April 2009
Sweden376 Posts
September 16 2012 22:19 GMT
#63
ehm, why aint Testie on that list? he and mondragon used to own it up
GeckoVOD
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
Germany814 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-24 21:48:34
September 16 2012 22:22 GMT
#64
  • I. Defiler Main Events

  • II. More Russian Events

  • III. Russian LANs

  • IV. Spotlight: RU KOTH

  • V. The Russian Spirit

  • VI. Hitchhiker's Guide to Russia

  • VII. Final Words



Check out Defiler.ru at Liquipedia!


We all know that Brood War is dead, it is gone and it will never come back. There was WarCraft III, which was the final death sentence for an outdated game. A few years later, World of WarCraft came along, which was for sure the end of the Real Time Strategy genre. Not to forget that Korea's isolation policy and ignorance of the foreign world caused Brood War's (and of course ESPORTS) death in 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 and all the other years. StarCraft II Beta killed it again. Now we're finally there, the point at which you have to quote George Martin.

Well, there is no need to. The past three years have been hard, many of you probably have no idea what was going on outside of Korea. Against all odds, we were able to maintain a healthy scene; Teamliquid Legacy Starleague showed that there is still demand for the game. However, we have new faces, new arenas and new events. Some of them were covered by the ABC Crew, others by users, but still - there's something missing. Russia. The big country, home of the ICCup, the legendary ASUS LANs and some of the best players in foreign history contributed so much to Brood War, and yet nobody in the foreign world knew. Our scene is so small that we can't possibly ignore them any longer.

Over fifty big tournaments, more than five thousand games, four LANs and a number of high quality showmatches just scream to be reviewed and advertised. New stories needs to be told, VODs waiting for views, replays want to be downloaded.

Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome to the Russian Brood War!


Timetable: Defiler Main Event




December 2010: Reboot



In December 2010, a relatively unknown young Russian started to write some sort of fan page for Brood War as a hobby. The page had nothing but a few forums, an option to watch streams, a quite minimal news script, and a tournament section. Obviously, I'm referring to (Wiki)yoda and (Wiki)defiler.ru, one of the greatest things ever to be released in the world of Brood War.


"I started defiler.ru as project two years ago, trying to prove that StarCraft-Broodwar is a game for ages, a game that appears to be an endless road of self improvement." -- yoda


Usually, people are very picky about looks. There are good ways to present your page. There is YouTube and there is the yoda approach to design, if you can call it design at all. In December 2010, the page could be compared to a Picasso, everything was there certainly, but well, not where it should be. Horribly complicated, very crude colours and patterns, giant buttons, banners with flashy tits on them, the only thing somewhat missing were blinking text elements in neon pink. The complete package was so obscene that it could only be considered as art.

As gross as it was, something inside me was touched. Something that wanted such a page badly. Years have passed by since I last laid eyes upon such a construct. These were usually badly-made clan pages, but all of them had the passion built in every single byte. So did this page.

But wait, there was more. On every other 'major' community page you would find the same discussions. People brainstorming how to survive the plague that was SC2, how to compensate for the losses, desperate plans and group meetings about whether or not trying to promote the game we all love so much was worth it. There were groups that discussed other group's findings on what the neighbour of someone's dog said would be a good idea to pump life into the scene. There were suggestions about how and when to organize an event with a bunch of players we might or might not know from past 'major' events in order to finally stop the whole downward spiral.

The Russians, though, were more like "hey let's play some games." This, surprisingly, worked without a flowchart which told you how to find a fitting server with a more modern environment that would actually support the needs of the new eSports generation. Weird, isn't it?

These people usually gathered on reps.ru, probably the biggest and oldest StarCraft: Brood War fan page in Russia. After the Beta it was mostly the die-hards, like on any other page, who still commented on different topics, usually real life or poker stuff. Some of them decided to just use yoda's new portal for fun tournaments. Easy as that, no strings attached. They would hop onto ICCup and play for a while, every Sunday, at the same time. The (Wiki)Defiler.ru Tournaments were born.


Early 2011: The Renaissance



The first five tournaments of the series were rather uninteresting for the foreigners, because we didn't know anything about them. However, the Russians did and a couple of well-known players signed up. That, again, doesn't mean there were great games already. The first tours were won by (Wiki)gargoyle a quite oldschool and strong Terran from Kazhakstan. He still plays, rarely though, and still takes down high class foreigners.


Gargoyle (T) vs Shand1 (Z) casted by yoda


Yoda and the reps.ru community were able to raise some money and the sixth edition started with a $70 prize pool.
With the money and word-of-mouth advertising more and more outsiders learned about the new portal, which, now at least, supported English for the tournament section. In the Defiler Tour 8 in February, three non-Russians took gold, silver, and bronze for the first time. These were the first snowflakes that would start a snow-slide. From now on every new tournament would have at least sixty players signed up, participating either for fun, for the money or to get the chance to get roflstomped by B ranked players in a best of three. The second you'd got eliminated, you had the opportunity to tune into yoda's twitch stream, which again, usually was online for at least seven hours. On every Sunday.




Having an actual series of events, like the old BW4Ever Tournaments, was more important than many might think. In retrospect, there has been some sort of gap between the old, experienced and already established players like(Wiki)kolll, (Wiki)Sziky or (Wiki)Heme and the new faces like (Wiki)Bakuryu, (Wiki)Dewalt and (Wiki)eonzerg in terms of skill. Aside from ICCup Clan League or even big-time events like the first ISL, there wasn't really anything to compete in regularly. Not perspective for the players, no fame to gain - the ordinary users, forum lurkers and replay fans had no source, no story that was told. Most coverage still focused on Korea, while the foreigners where somewhat left alone. Defiler at least gave all of that knew about them a Sunday full of Brood War.


The First Rivalry


A good tournament series has heroes and the evildoers, mortal enemies fighting for the greater good and such. Players you'd look up to, because they dominate each and everyone. Three players competed for the overall crown, these were Heme, Sziky, and Scan.

Heme was in his own territory, defending the pride of the motherland. He was already quite known in the foreign world, as he was able to qualify for the World Cyber Games in 2010. On his way his only loss was to the overall winner of WCG Russia 2010, Brat_ok, but defeated Advokate in the group stages. However, in Los Angeles, the Terran failed to get out of the group stages, since he dropped two games against the likes of (Wiki)Legend and (Wiki)Kal. It was no surprise that Heme was able to win four gold medals in the young Defiler series. Mechanically only very few foreigners could compete with him, no opponent was safe, literally none of them.


that's him - Heme


Still, even way before that he was a really skilled player. The Terran qualified for (Wiki)WCG Russia 2007 and made it out of a group with (Wiki)Ex, (Wiki)NotForu , (Wiki)Pomi and another one with (Wiki)Advokate - only to lose to the eventual winner in the unforgiving knock out stage few hours later. By the way, this was mostly thanks to the coaching by (Wiki)Strelok ¹. More proof of how many really strong Terrans Russia had.
No surprise, that Heme was able to win four gold medals in the young Defiler series. Mechanically only very few foreigners could compete with him.

The second of the trio was non other than infamous Scan. The Korean living in the States almost qualified for the TSL2, but was disqualified for abuse and consequently banned from TL.net events. This however didn't mean he was a bad player, quite the contrary. The Terran played a lot of ladders, ICCup, FISH and elsewhere, nobody else could keep up with this many games. As result he improved quite a bit and was one and still is one of the strongest players in the foreign community. In addition to his very strong Terran he could roflstomp most of the established players even with his offrace. Too bad that this fact went to Scan's head and he often crossed the thin line that divides trash talk from insults. He was a perfect villain. Strong, almost unbeatable, an Idra 2.0 for many. Even before entering the Defiler Tours the all-round player had an impressive record - he basically ruled ICCup's 1on1 and 2on2 ladder with an iron fist, was featured in show matches and won almost every ladder tournament he entered.

To complete the group we have Sziky. The Hungarian Zerg is legendary now, but he wasn't too known before the beta. Of course, he was part of mouseports, one of the strongest teams in the foreign scene, but also overtowered by many other players. The first time he kind-of appeared in a big thing was during (Wiki)ESL Major Series 3, a quite popular event in Germany. He could qualify for the initial group stage, but aside from that couldn't advance. However, he could take down Mondragon, a guy who could defeat sAviOr. Sziky also managed to qualify for TSL2 via ladder on eigth place with an A rank, but lost 2-3 to (Wiki)Tarson in the Qualifiers.


The rivalry between the three of them started with the sixth volume, which was also the first to feature non Russians. In the Semi Finals the Zerg went up against the first of the Terrans: Scan. The series was not so interesting to watch, as both used quite offensive strategies. Scan opened with two Barracks off one base, putting pressure on Sziky. The Hungarian responded quite well, but eventually lost too many mutalisks and could only stall the final blow with some backstabs. The second and third set were even less entertaining - Scan played Zerg in the second and was teared to shreds, in the third he was just outplayed again.

Next for Sziky was Heme, the other rival. And the quality suddenly improved by a lot!


Sadly the first 15 minutes are missing, still a good first set!


In the following tourneys, up to Defiler Tour 26, almost 40% of the medals went to one of the three, with all of them having a winnin ratio of over 80% against all the other participants - which is more than enough in a best of three series. The games between the three of them ranged from very short lived (one of the best of series were three five minute games) and aggressive plays to quite long games that went into hive tier Terran vs. Zerg. Thanks to defiler.ru's internal seeding-ranking (DeSPA Ranking) neither of them was eliminated by one of the other two too soon. Usually the fights started around the Semi Finals, where one of them was sent down to the lower bracket, just to repeat the battle in the overall finals again. Surprisingly enough, Scan never really bmed too strong in these clashes, although he overdid it in the ICCup AoV Starleague both against Heme and Sziky.
The Defiler Tournaments surely weren't the only arena for this trio, aforementioned ISL was another battle field as well. However, this series made damn sure we could see the three of them showing their finest performance almost every week.

Around Summer 2011 the trio fell apart, mostly due to Heme quitting Brood War for good. This was a rather big loss, only very few Terrans after him could reach a similar level of play. The Russian came back almost exactly a year later for the infamous MMM Tours - which we're going to have a look at later. In this time however, the Terran wasn't able to perform well and was eliminated in the early stages. The rivalry between Scan and Sziky continued for the rest of 2011, but was most times outside of the Russian events.



April 2011 - May 2012: More Competition



With Heme leaving the scene the tours in between April 2011 and May 2012 were dominated by the Hungarian and the Korean. Still, it didn't get boring at all, most times the two of them still played quite entertaining games. Also, everytime a Russian Terran goes away, another Russian Terran takes over. Much like Heme the new guy wasn't that new, you only never heard of him because he was a Russian Terran, and Russia has too much talented Terrans, a fact I'm probably going to repeat a hundred times during this article. It's like they have them frozen somewhere in a basement in Siberia...


Another Russian Terran (made in Korea)


(Wiki)Pro7ect already entered a bunch of high class offline tournaments in 2006 and 2007, much like Heme. In the ASUS LAN 2007 Pro7ect finished on the 5th/6th place, defeated - watch out Pomi - just a few rounds before and - more coincidences - lost to NotForU. The only thing surprising about Pro7ect is that we have no half-naked pics of him with beer bottles in his hand. Other than Heme Pro7ect is able to speak Korean fluently, mostly because he has a Korean background.

In between 2007 and 2011 there's not much to find about that talented player. In Fall 2011 however he came back making a run for the crown. He didn't appear too often in the big and major Defiler Tournaments, but when he did he could beat the very best. In Defiler Tour 30 he quite easily took out the ICCup Ladder #1 - the Korean TopStar. That the Pro7ect won "only" two gold medals in the overall series doesn't mean anything, he had a win ratio of 70%. This number again means only little, you have to remember that he came back from inactivity and made it to the top of the foreign scene in only a few weeks.
Pro7ect was overall a very nice guy and he didn't only stop by to play. No, he also supported the scene with his own money. He did organize, stream, sponsor and play in parts of the Defiler Mini Series.

One of the new faces was (Wiki)Michael from the United States. The Zerg was, compared to the rest, too good to be considered average in the Defiler Tournaments. And the skill has been quite high, usually no player with a rank lower than B made it to the Quarter Finals or onwards. The downside of the Russian Tours were the time zones, especially North American players had a hard time staying up very late to compete with the best the Europeans and Russians had to offer. This underlines how good Michael actually is. Additionally, the American used to mix things up, when he chose to play one of his off races, which are usually good enough to stomp any player, regardless of rank and reputation.

The two of them seemed to get another duell going. Most of their clashes however happened outside of the Defiler series, like in the Gosu Cup hosted by GosuGamers. In the Defiler Mini Tour organized and sponsored by Pro7ect both of them met in the Round of Eight ². The match was tied 1-1, with Pro7ect streaming his FPView. The third set was one of the better games of fall 2011!

VODs: Set 3 - Including Commentary by Hackle & Pro7ect

+ Show Spoiler [Part One] +


+ Show Spoiler [Part Two] +


+ Show Spoiler [Part Three A] +


+ Show Spoiler [Part Three B] +


+ Show Spoiler [Part Four] +


There were more names making their way up aside from Michael and the Terran. The time of domination seemed over, as good as Pro7ect and Michael were, both of them couldn't kill all their competitors in the fashion the trio did before, nor could Sziky or Scan stomp too easy through their opponents anymore. The gap between the skilled new comers and the old elite seemed to close. One of the guys that improved most was (Wiki)Bakuryu.

The German Zerg participated in almost all of the Defiler Tours and usually ended among the first eight. This level of consistency was rare, even (especially) for Defiler. With every new edition he learned a bit more, worked on his shape constantly. To be fair, he was already very good, one of the players that could qualify for (Wiki)WCG Germany 2010, but nowhere near the level of a Sziky. However, the training paid off, he became one of if not the strongest Zerg of Western Europe. He was one of the few to win more than one medal before Winter 2011.


"I am one of the players that takes any chance" -- Bakuryu


Furthermore, players like (Wiki)Napoleon showed up and scored well. Although more than 50% of the participants were from Russia, an increasing number of international players jumped on the band wagon. Another very notable player to join the elite of the Defiler circle was the Peruvian Terran Terror. As American he had the in-built timezone disadvantage, but didn't seem to mind playing tired too much. In Defiler Tour 31, 33 and 34 he won three medals out of three tournaments he signed up for - with him even taking the gold in the 33rd edition; Sziky and Scan both went missing at this sunday though.

Thanks to yoda's frequent casts we could learn more and more about the players. The faces in the later rounds were familiar, not always the same, but there wasn't too much of variation either - just what we needed. Finally some sort of who-is-who established. Make no mistake, the overall level increased with every sunday. While the average rank of Round of 16 players was around a C+ish rank in January 2011, the skill of a Round of 16 player in October 2011 was already as high as a solid B rank.


May 2012: The Break's Over



Defiler.ru went for a break in between January and May 2012, but was back with full force after spring. At first it looked like the domination would continue, with both Sziky and Scan winning one of the two new editions each.

Remember when I said that the Russians can go without drama? Well that isn't entirely correct, they do have some sort of dispute. The good thing is, it really only is a discussion of some sorts, like English gentlemen drinking tea and discussing the matters of invading France. This is quite odd once you got to know what it was all about.

In June 2012 Heme was back and with him there was a new sponsor. Defiler already had a sponsor, at least for a short while - Plantronics. The new investor with the money wasn't a headphone seller though, it was none other than Sergey Mavrodi and his, errrr, for the want of a better word, "project" MMM-2011 ³. To sum it up, and to avoid links that might get you in temptation, Mavrodi is a scammer. He scammed money in the past with the help of a financial system that was basically designed to get as much money out of you as possible; he made a shit ton of money, billions even. It was more money than the average Brood War player would make if he'd sell Yu-Gi-Oh cards to elderly for the rest of his life. Hence, most of the Russians were quite "worried" about a tour wearing this name. At first I thought that it was just fun, the Russians are a bit weird, but it wasn't. Well, I think Nina phrased it better in her topic about the Mavrodi issue (recommended read).


The root of all evil


Back to Brood War: the reign of terror was over. Sziky disappeared from the player list and Scan couldn't get away with sloppy off racing anymore. The players finally closed the gap and the outcome of a tournament wasn't 50% Hungary vs. 50% Korea anymore. Also, no more ZvZ or TvZ finals - which was a huge pro in terms of diversification.

However, with the increased prize pool of the MMM sponsorship more no-name Koreans with a high rank on FISH joined to win easy money. Namely Anfod, Orz and prizekiller went through most A-ranked players like a knife through butter. This just added to the bad reputation of MMM-Tours among the Russians. As a result a Russian-only and a NO KR Tour was hosted by PlumBum to make up for the roflstomps.

In between summer and winter 2012 a whole new generation of players made their break through. Bakuryu's form spiked when he killed Sziky in a very impressive ZvZ. There was no way to tell that the German plays with under 200 APM, not in this match - Sziky basically had no chance. Sadly, the German fell behind after September and only made a come back in the last days of December; this however is a story not connected to Defiler or Russian events.

A guy that snuck his way to the top of the Defiler list and one who certainly nobody saw coming was the Spanish eOnzErG. In between MMM Tour 1 and the very last volume, Defiler Tour 48, you could see the Zerg improving with every game he played. The Spaniard used to play very aggressive, using a ton of over committing build orders and hence lost relatively early in 2011. Not so in the second half of 2012 - he basically never left the tour if he wasn't in the Top Eight already. In winter 2012 only the very best could stop the talent from winning tournament after tournament.


Sunday - play Defiler or not?


The second of three players to catch up was the young Russian Protoss Dewalt. Living at the end of the world he also had some sort of a time disadvantage. Then again while the rest of Europe was still hung over in bed, he was already eating lunch. Still, Dewalt participated in almost all tournaments, events and leagues there were - and also trained a lot on the ladders and with his team mates in reps.ru fun gaming, home of the best remaining Russian players. In late 2010 Dewalt wasn't really someone you would expect to win big, in Fall 2012 he won two Defiler Tournaments in a row, taking down the likes of Bakuryu or TechnicS; his Protoss vs. Zerg was key to his success.

The third player to make his way to the elite was the Polish trutaCz. Theoretically not an unknown name, he already joined the famous National Team as 2on2 player - but 2on2 doesn't make you top in 1on1. The Zerg wasn't a nobody in the ICCup ladder either, he could qualify two times for the ISLs, even with a top ten spot in both. In tournaments however, he lost relatively early and showed nerves. With the last few volumes of Defiler trutaCz could gain confidence; he finished as runner-up in the 48th volume, but well, there's only so much you can do against a monster like iOps]Sense - who was the latest Korean from FISH to stop by and win easy money.

And again, not only the newcomers shone, a couple of oldschool players returned to once again mess with the best. If you say Kazakhstan and "known Brood War player" everyone possibly only comes up with a big question mark. But really, there's a Terran you should keep an eye on: (Wiki)gargoyle. It's funny, nobody knows that kid with the aka. FR.Dima, even though having four gold medals on his record. He didn't win small tours either, the MMM1 was as big as it gets for Defiler. To be fair, he only beat Scan with the help of a walk over, but he also walzed over another oldschool Toss - Arcneon - a new talented player - DRaW - and beat the uprising eOnzErG on his way to the finale.

Speaking of Protoss, Russia has also plenty of those. In the 47th volume we could see Tama coming back from the dead. A player you rarely get to watch, yet one to be scared of. He knocked out Dewalt, Bonyth (another oldschool Toss returning), some random Korean and crushed TechnicS in the finale.

All in all, the past half year was really interesting. A very good mix of new faces, players you never heard of (hajjuk, Biggus) and of course players like Clawson, Bonyth or gargoyle showing up on occasion, all making up for some really entertaining games, especially when yoda freaks out over the awesomeness he is able to cast.

There also seems to be another duo that has the potential to become the new Sziky vs. Scan - eOnzErG and WCG 2006 finalist TechnicS from Bulgaria. Both of them faced each other more than ten times already in the first half of December. Again, both are high class players, good with their races and in TechnicS' case, even good with other races as well. Both don't really like each other, there's always an acceptable level of trash talk included, which only adds to the tension. For now it's not sure how this will eventually end, but knowing Defiler, it will probably give us amazing games to talk about.


Some Highlights



It's really hard to pick the best game from the past three years, the ICCup Elo Event ranking suggests that more than two thousand (!) games were played in Defiler Tournaments in the course of the last year alone. Of course, the majority of the games was quite boring or played by rather unnotable players in the first rounds. Still, I randomly picked some of the games I can remember to give you a glimpse of how high the quality was.

Report 1: Michael vs. Ramms

+ Show Spoiler +

Player 1: (Wiki)Michael (ICC: A-)
Player 2: (Wiki)Ramms (ICC: A-)
Map: (Wiki)Gladiator

Michael vs. Ramms demonstrates the already high level of mechanics that was displayed in the first Defiler Tournaments. Ramms is one of the finest and most talented Russian Terrans, while Michael is arguably the best player of the United States, if you count out Scan. The game was played in one of the later stages during the Defiler Tournaments, the starting map was Gladiator. It has many ramps, which make army positioning a lot more important than on maps like Fighting Spirit. Skilled players can abuse these to stall massive pushes, take defensive stances or need to think of other ways to get rid of the problem. The following report demonstrates how much mind games can matter!

The first few minutes of the game start out quite boring, as both players open with more or less standard builds. Michael, spawning as white Zerg in the 11 o'clock spot, went for a three hatch mutalisks opening. Ramms, spawning as white Terran (really) at the seven o'clock spot, went for a fast expansion, using two depots and a barracks to wall himself in. The Russian went straight for mech and used his first two vultures to check out Michael's natural, but couldn't do anything, since any harass was denied by a sunken colony.



Michael used his first mutalisks to harass. The air attacks turned out to be highly ineffective; the Zerg could kill a few goliaths and marines, but otherwise found no open spot in Ramms' armor.



Ramms micro started to kick in. When he started to move out, he already had around with a decent sized army, enough to scare his opponent. Michael already had a few lurkers ready and was expanding to the left middle spot, when the Terran force arrived at his natural. That Ramms could drive all the way up the map without being harassed or attacked should have been a warning sign. He sieged up on all of Michael's lurkers. Final destination.



I'm quite sure I remember yoda yelling his infamous 'boom boom suchka', although cheering against his fellow country man in the battle. Ramms lost all but two goliaths. Michael tried to finish the job, but the Russian already had his defenses up and Michael had to retreat. He left a few of his lurkers on the way to stall a possible follow-up attack.



The stalling wasn't neccessary, Ramms was out of mana for scans and was cautious now. He however started to take his mineral only while harassing Michael's third base in between the two main bases.



This vulture raid saved the Russian's life. Michael already gathered a sizeable army of his own, lots of mutalisks, queens and hydralisks to serve a death blow to the damaged Terran. In a huge attack both armies clashed and Michael was very close to end the game right there. i don't know who was more surprised: Yoda, Michael or the viewers.



It was time for Ramms to react in one way or the other; he chose harass again. He used vulture raids time and time again to kill the Zerg economy and also sometimes used his vessels when he felt save enough to irradiate anything on the way.



In the next ten minutes both players macroed up again, Ramms was still recovering from the huge army and economy loss from the large attack, while Michael had a hard time keeping the vultures away and not losing too many hydralisks in mine fields. Both placed their armies on the high ground, waiting for their opponent to make the next move. Both didn't know how bad the enemies eco was - so it was really a game of patience.



It was probably really late or really early in the night or the morning for Michael. TL;DR: he showed nerves the first, being constantly haunted by vessels and vultures. With the first defilers out, Michael decided that he would call Ramms' hand and moved all-in. He lost - good game!




Report 2: Sneazel vs. Discharge

+ Show Spoiler +

Player 1: (Wiki)Sneazel (ICC: A-)
Player 2: Discharge (ICC: B)
Map: (Wiki)Circuit Breaker

This game is a prime example of how the Defiler Tournaments really are. Sneazel was known as stronger player in early 2010, he was definitely one of the best Protoss players out there, superior to most other players. The man from Poland usually wasn't easy to defeat, had a rock solid play style and could handle any situation - intense micro fights, macro orientated long games, both no problem.

Discharge aka. Miliondeadcops on the other hand is a total no name. Well, at least that is what you think by just looking at the bracket. The advantage for good players at Defiler is, that you can easily hide your true account - very popular with players like DRaW (who was mistaken for real Chinese Lx once) and dsaqwe. So you never know whether or not you're going to face a random mass gamer from ladder, a total newb, an upcoming talent or a smurf. Discharge gives me a slight head aches, by now I know who it is, especially after THIS game, but my first suspicion was that I either stumbled over Ace or Sziky. The truth is that Discharge turns out to be a talented player from Eastern Europe, who sadly underperforms most of the time. Sometimes though, he rapes.

Both met in the Winner Bracket and already played two quite high skilled games. The score was tied and it was hard to say who'd be the winner after the decider, as the first two sets were more or less strategy losses. Games in which one of the two screwed up and was soft countered. The openings of both players were nothing out of the ordinary. Discharge, spawning at the right bottom position had to place his second hatchery on his mineral only, as Sneazel blocked his natural with a pylon. The Polish player, spawning on the right bottom, decided to go for a standard fast expansion, but with a very conservative build order - two cannons before nexus.





Sneazel lost his scout probe early on, which is a huge disadvantage for every Protoss. He had to add a third cannon, since he wasn't sure what was coming for him. With his first three zealots and the first dragoon Sneazel moved out, he was already safe against the strongest all-ins. It was a quite smart move, if Zerg was going for a hydra-bust, the few units wouldn't matter too much, if Discharge would go for mutas, he could at least force a few sunkens or pick up a few drones. Turns out Discharge went for a Sauron (macro) orientated opening, adding more hatcheries and drones. He was already starting to pump mass hydralisks off of his three saturated bases when the strike force arrived. Discharge defended, but lost an overlord in the process.



The initial attack was one out of many to come. In the following minutes Protoss started to pump a lot of speed zealots, archons and high templars, storm upgrade was on the way. When he had a decent amount of units Sneazel went out and attacked time and time again. The first bigger battlefield was the mineral-only expansion of Discharge, which he defended quite easily, as his lurkers popped out just in time. Only a minute later the Polish moved in, this time targeting the natural expansion. Since Discharge moved his hydra force at the bottom of the map the base was almost undefended; only few lurkers could stop the incoming zealots. Most of them were caught by storms and the Zerg units were in a disarray.



The second Sneazel realized that there were actually no forces coming to help in time, he went up the ramp and into the heart of the Zerg's base. He swiftly took care of the lair and was able to kill of the spawning pool, forcing Discharge to stay on hydra/lurk for the next minutes. Sneazel tried to abuse this by attacking the mineral-only. The Zerg however didn't quit and started to counterattack the main base of Protoss. Out of nowhere he pumped a mass hydralisks, replaced his losses. From now on attack after attack went down, Discharge barely staying alive, mainly thanks to his fourth base in the middle right hand side of the map.



In the next ten minutes the Protoss attacked in the middle of the map, placed a couple of really good storms on the incoming Zerg forces, but was repelled again and again.



Sneazel used the distraction to expand to his mineral-only, which just added to the tense fights; the distances between the bases of the two was minimal. Consequently more fights started, the middle expansion at the bottom was often a scenery of the fights. In the long run Sneazel's many gate ways demanded their tribute. He ran out of minerals, while the Zerg could pump up to two control groups within a few seconds. Often times three or even four smaller clashes went down, all over the map.



Discharge managed to win more ground every time he encountered the Protoss. After killing off Sneazel's last attack in his mineral only, Discharge was the winner.



Eventually Sneazel couldn't help but to type out. These were almost 25 Minutes of non-stop fights!



VOD 1: Sziky vs. Scan

+ Show Spoiler +

Watch live video from dyoda on TwitchTV
Game starts around 6 hours and 40 minutes!



VOD 2: Tama vs. Dewalt

+ Show Spoiler +

Watch live video from dyoda on TwitchTV
Game starts around 3 hours!



More Russian Events




Defiler Tournaments are not the only thing that was organized by the Russians. There was much more stuff going on, most things equally inspiring and entertaining. These ranged from ordinary tours with a slightly smaller prize pool (Defi Mini Series) up to really sick events with curious qualifiers and, not to forget, a couple of LANs. Right, a Brood War LAN outside of Korea.


The Nostalgia League



The Nostalgia League was the first event that really opened my eyes. While ICCup Clan League, BWCL and Gambit Cup had problems finding clans to play, or in the case of Eywa, willing to pay money, the Russians again did "the impossible". Sadly, due to the lack of coverage, I have little to no information or recommendations for this event.

In spring 2011 yoda and the defiler/reps.ru users crowd funded a $600 prize pool for a clan league, which was only open for the Russian teams. The newly formed reps.ru fun gaming pro team signed up, along with the later winner international Federation of Untouchables (with the only foreigner playing this event, eOnzErG) in addition to really traditional teams like Super Russia or 7x. They had sixteen teams, a lot of casts and fun. Sadly, we missed it and only learned about it when most of the league was already over. The only thing I can add are some VODs, casted by Tesla & gu-val in English.








Fun Tournaments



Everyone that followed Gem League knows that Brood War doesn't really need official KeSPA maps to be fun to play. You can do with a bunch of decently skilled players, even newbs, and get an amazing result if you only slightly alter the game mode. Many people on ICCup don't really get that concept, mostly because they never tried and/or focus to much on the ladder, but the Russians did embrace it. While other people whine about Lost Temple being featured on TheAbyss, the Russian smile and make the best out of an aged and outdated map.

Around ten so-called Perversion Tournaments were hosted by Lisyonok and a few other guys like reps)Anophele. All these tours had something for the winner, somewhere in between $10 to $60, depending on the gravity and who was interested to see it happen. And no tour really used a standard map or game mode. Some of these had really odd maps, the Defiler Perversion maps, or standard non-standard maps like Blood Bath. Others were re-designed maps you would see in official map packs like Fighting Spirit. The trick on these was, that you would spawn on the middle expansions. Plumbum streamed these kind of maps for weeks, usually going up against other players of defiler.


one of the Defiler Perversion maps


But there was more - two events were quite memorable. One due to it's weird qualifier: Lisyonok, the guy behind the defiler.ru chat, apparently coded some whack-a-mole-Brood War game, that is pretty bad, but fun to play for an hour or two. Only four people with the highest record in that game would be able to qualify for the actual tour.

The other one featured maps with special triggers. A bunch of Russians organized a tour casted by reps)Anophele with the game mode Fastest*2 - that also caused a lot of rethinking. Most players found it rather entertaining, either to play or to watch. Definitely an interesting experiment. Sadly most of the casts are gone, but there's still some pre-coverage material online.


Show Matches



Defiler.ru is all about show matches, at all days you can find people that stream their FPView and have fun games to settle an argument or just to train with other community users. Sometimes with commentary, sometimes without. However, there were more serious show matches as well - we're going to focus on those organized by (Wiki)Defi.

In December 2011 he invited a couple of known foreigners to fight over a small prize pool, usually around $10. These games were quite awesome, a mix of new faces, more or less inactive big names and obviously also the top of the Defiler Tournament participants. One player was a bit too skilled to be featured here - Sziky. The Hungarian used to eat the competitors alive. His arch-enemy and equal, Scan, wasn't invited either, mostly because he either declined, was not interested or simply didn't match the Defi's fair play motto. So Defi had to look elsewhere to see high class games featuring the top level Zerg from Hungary.

With ex. ICCup.Dayfly aka. Hyeon he found a guy that was willing and able to talk to some of Afreeca's famous BJs, who we all know from the SOSPA events. That's when the shit got real. Sziky first faced a relatively unknown but high class Terran named iOps]..Han, got destroyed and almost didn't agree to play more. Luckily, he changed his mind and agreed to face an even stronger Protoss - the KeSPA ex-Pro and OSL Bronze medalist PuSan! This series has been one of the best games post beta - and again can be tied to the Russian scene.






Russian LANs




Russia is a big country, even the ordinary US American could find it on a map without checking google first. Surprisingly, this country could actually host a lot of LANs and has a tradition of doing big time offline events. The best covered events for outsiders were obviously the ASUS LANs with people like White-Ra, Advokate, Pomi and other legends participating. Additionally, all of them had quite large prize pools, compared to the rest of the foreign scene.


Moscow New Year LAN 2012


Apparently the two big Russian players, Moscow and St. Petersburg, had some sort of friendly rivalry going on over the years in offline competitions, these two cities were the place to be for LANs (which doesn't mean other cities didn't host them as well). And it didn't stop only because StarCraft II got in the way. There was still demand on reps.ru/defiler.ru to have some event to meet and additionally an overall spirit to keep the tradition alive. Compared to other countries like Germany, Russia really cared for LANs. In the past three years, four (that I know of) LANs with 1on1 tournaments were hosted and even partially streamed for those that couldn't come.

One LAN was hosted in St. Petersburg, the other three in Moscow. One player that really performed way better than usual was (Wiki)Lancerx aka. iFU.Must. He was able to win three out of four LANs, one time over Largo, one time over Tama and the latest one over Djem5. Apparently the Russian Protoss players need to see their opponents face to face to show their very best; all LANs had at least two Protoss among the final four.

Dewalt, of whom we heard earlier, took the time to travel to Moscow in August 2011 (which is more than 4.000 miles from his home), only to show up and have a chat with his buddies. Sadly, this effort wasn't rewarded, he finished on the fourth place, losing to Defi in the small finals and being defeated by his mentor and friend Tama before. Speaking of whom - Tama, the older version of Dewalt, also had a quite good run in the LANs; he finished second and first in two of them.

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More Pictures:
  • 7x LAN
  • Moscow, August 2011
  • reps.ru - Moscow NY Lan 2012


The latest LAN, Moscow New Year 2012, was the LAN with the smallest amount of players visiting, yet the one with the most entertaining games. Four players, TTF, Biggus, pain[A2] (aka. trofl in the Defiler Tours) and pROSKID joined them via b-net. Especially the series between Biggus, a mysterious (because unknown) Terran, who made himself a name in the Winter Defiler Tours 2012, and Tama was more than "just good". The series was quite tense, Biggus showed what a true Russian Terran is made of, while Tama tried to stop this talented player. A Protoss vs. Terran series that is highly recommended. Sadly, most of the first two games were deleted by twitch again, but the deciding game is still there.


Watch live video from negroplayer on TwitchTV


The rest of the tournament was entertaining as well, the organizers Largo and RUS_Brain did an amazing job, despite having so little players at the internet cafe. Thanks to (Wiki)Othello, a bunch of really, really intense, long lasting macro TvPs were played, with the online participant TTF leaving quite a few Protoss dead on the road behind. Surprisingly Djem5 and Lancerx made it to the finals, showing a performance we rarely saw of them in online tournaments. Both really did deserve to come so far; too bad for the talented Djem5 that Must seems to be on fire when it comes to the Protoss Mirror lately.


Spotlight: Russian KOTH




Remember show matches? They are another really important part of the Russian scene. In November last year Largo announced a new event, the (Wiki)Russian King of the Hill. Every Russian player was allowed to sign-up, but had to pay $10 entrance fee from which a prize pool was formed. In the following weeks the participants would have to undergo a series of best of sevens. The mode was quite easy - two players started, the winner stayed, the loser had to go home, but the next volume would feature a new contender for the throne.

The opener was played between Djem5 and TTF, two more or less unfamiliar faces and players you wouldn't know if you were only around foreign Brood War for the Teamliquid Starleagues. Well, both of them were at least decent and definitely above average before the beta. TTF was able to hit a green rank in previous ICCup seasons and is among the best Russian Terrans post-StarCraft II. Djem5 on the other hand was only above average, but surely nowhere close to the top. In December however he showed very good results and won silver in the aforementioned New Year LAN. He was well in shape and beat TTF with a clean 4-0 swipe.


Be water my friend!


Next however came Defi, one of the most mysterious players according to Hacklebeast. This just shows that even Hackle can be wrong, one of the few English casters that tried to at least cast a few highlights of Defiler Tournaments (big props for it btw). Defi was already a known name in the Russian scene way before the Beta. He was able to cause some upsets in ASUS LANs and smaller offline events in Piter. Funny thing about him, he often doesn't use too standard openings, but rather strategies designed to beat one special opponent on one special map in one special match up while also thinking about the opponent's weak spots and what the guy ate for lunch last. TL;DR: he plays all races, 2on2 and likes to mix things up. Definitely a guy you should be scared of and to take serious, but nobody that is "lucky" to win against the real big names. Underestimate him and gg right away. No wonder he walked over Djem5 with another 4-0.

The next to enter was gagTerran or gag for short. He is a regular streamer at defiler.ru and also way above average. Similar to TTF he can perform really, really strong, but for some reason gets eliminated early in most tournaments. In his sets against Defi he made a rather strong impression and gave his best. Which apparently wasn't enough, Defi outplayed him in the long run - 4-2 to the artist formerly known as Leningrad again. Most of the games are really recommended, so go and watch the VODs!


Watch live video from Largus_bleat on TwitchTV


Since Defi had no more time or was getting bored ( :troll: ) two new players started the series over again: Lancerx vs Ramms. Must is argueably the Russian with the most sex appeal, as you can see in the galery of the LANs, and also plays a lot on ICCup. He never gives up and trains like there is no tomorrow. He often has more than 300 games on his main account per season and, unlike other players, doesn't reset his stats only because they don't look too good. Make no mistake, a 60%++ winratio against only the best is still impressing. Ramms on the other hand is no anon player either. The Terran already hit a green rank before the beta started and could keep up mechanically with most other players. He gave the likes of Scan and Michael (see Battle Report) a really hard time during the Defiler Tournaments. The Protoss however was way too good in December, the month of Russian Protoss, and took the series 4-1.


Hey there, ladies.


Along comes Dewalt. Well, Must is good, Dewalt is better; Must's mirror is awesome, Dewalt is Dewalt. Hey I am Dewalt, recently voted best Protoss and biggest talent in 2012 by ICCup users, and now go home, maybe? Poor Must, the first of many victims.


No Photoshop needed to make Largo look like a bad ass


Largo, who claims that Terran is the race that matches the Russian spirit the most, and therefore plays it (big surprise), was next in line, waiting to get a shot to challenge Russia's arguably strongest player. Well, Dewalt 4 - 0 Largo, gg.

Djem5, another really good Protoss player was granted a second chance. He does a lot of meta gaming play. I'm not sure if I used the term correctly and lived up to Chill's standards, but Djem5 really takes everything into a game. He switches strategies, plays with the enemy's expectations, mixes things up. Much like Defi he plays the opponent more than the game itself. Largo described this as "battle of thoughts". This, for the first time in weeks, could get to the young Protoss from the end of the world. The score 4-3 really shows how close Djem5 came... the sets are highly recommended again!


Watch live video from Largus_bleat on TwitchTV


The next two players were Ramms and yoda. Both got destroyed, no surprises there, Dewalt was on a killing spree. The tenth match was exciting and caused somewhat of an upset. Plumbum, recently coming back from a longer period of forced inactivity, was up next.


<3


Plumbum Lannister, the Kingslayer, first of his name


Plumbum again is one of the players that actually likes to experiment. The main race Zerg showed that he didn't forget a thing and that he wasn't scared of the young fella from somewhere above China or so. Another of these funny series that have everything. Recommended!


Watch live video from Largus_bleat on TwitchTV


The second to last game of the series was Tama vs Dewalt, yet another Protoss mirror. Both of them are friends, like each other and met in real life. Tama used to be some kind of a mentor, trainer and coach to young Dewalt. It's the Russian version of Boxer vs Oov, for some weird reason not having Terran in it, even though it's Russian. Still, Tama, a Protoss that Canadian DRaW, self titled Russian expert, refers to as "complete Protoss" (that is a quote, I don't get it either, but it sounded positive and I have little quotes either way) stood no chance, too. A clean 4-0 again. The last series of the match was another 4-1 over TTF. $100 went to a part of Russia you have never heard of.


Dewalt and his mentor Tama


The six players to appear at least twice in the series were invited to duke it out in an overall final. For this everyone had to play everyone, with the best two getting to play a final best of three. This event lasted for about seven hours, more or less, and gave us again a series of entertaining games, some of them casted by Largo, some of them casted by various other Defiler users.


from left to right: Kerrigan without make-up, Lancerx, Djem5, Mini-Tama, Tama
Background: the Zerg players


Eventually Dewalt, TTF and Djem5 were tied, Lancerx took the first spot, Ramms and Defi were out. Since TTF has a baby he needs to take care of, Djem5 and Dewalt had to play for the second place. Djem5 won and faced Lancerx, only a few weeks after they played in the New Year LAN. History repeated, Djem5 went up, outplaying Lancerx in a very convincing manner on Othello, but losing two times in the following games - silver and gold to the usual suspects.


The Russian Spirit




If you read heyoka's blog about gaming you might realize what the upcoming text is going to be about: true passion.

After being around for a long time I dare say, that we are somewhat pragmatic. Our mindset is a bit different to the other online-people, we could do with tournaments and no artificial hype for a very long time, most of us don't really grasp the concept of eSport fully; I recently heard the term 'oldschool player' used by one of my neighbours. I have no idea (and no interest frankly) to find out what he means with it, probably something you brag with. Don't get me wrong, to each his own - everyone of the sane Brood War players won't insult any other game just for the lulz. However, there are some of us that never left the scene, that cared for the game. That spirit missed in the phase post beta a lot. Especially the big players like Teamliquid, GosuGamers and broodwar.de (I do mean the communities here) focused on Korean events, but somewhat forgot that there are still veterans out there that want to play "in the real world", on ICCup, Battle.net or LANs. The Russians never forgot it and just kept on doing what they always did.

The spirit is truly inspiring, Russia does have a number of newbs, regularly streaming on Defiler, but also a couple of really oldschool players like (Wiki)Ex keeping the game alive in tournaments. Yoda's quote in the timeline says it all - "I think it's a good game, there is nothing to support it, so I make something to promote the game I love". Defi spent hours on end to organize show matches with his own money, not because he wanted to see his name in the title and call himself "major organizer" or "CEO of eSports Russia", he wanted to just watch a few hours of good old Brood War. Largo spent days to organize LANs, post a few lines on almost every Brood War fansite, rally players and tried to connect mother Russia with the international scene. Huge thanks to you guys.

Here's the thing: stereotypes are bad. I am a bit embarrassed, but before I got to know the people from Defiler, Russians - all of them - were just a nuisance to me online (in before YOU GERMAN RACIST). In every flipping league I played thus far the East European "comrades" were lagging and more over, always, no exception here, flaming me and my allys in clan wars. These clan wars were horrible, nobody could communicate with the other side, except for sentences that had at least a swear word and "u lag" in it. This changed dramatically. Everyone I talked to in the past years - Rp, Defi, Plumbum, Yoda, Largo, gu-val, negrote, the-guy-with-the-ID-2707-on-defiler-chat-that-posts-nude-pics-a-lot, Dewalt, Djem5: All of them were extremely nice. More importantly though, almost all Russian clans insist on playing games fairly, walk overs are avoided at any cost, unlike what I was used to from BWCL or WGTCL.

Still, idling in op swarm for Defiler Tournaments, sitting in a channel for the Russian KOTH or reading the chat: Everyone seems to be BM. Ironically the Russians do embrace soft bad manners, they trash talk. "Gogo nubasek" before a game, "yodo pedek/pizdec" if yoda screws up something during his casts; but nobody actually means what he says. Trashtalk has a deep root in their community, trolling each other is common place. This way they blow of steam, there is nothing insulting about it. By doing so the true idiots, who really do mean what they say, who want to directly offend people, are singled out. No moderation necessary at all. There are very, very few cases when some sort of drama occurs, most times in the form of a player rage quitting. But these kind of drama queens are forgotten minutes after they leave and are welcomed back with a huge grin the next day. That's how it's supposed to work: Fair play, competition as spirit, blowing off steam if needed, everyone respects everyone. Everyone is truly equal, no double standards. Any dispute can be settled by a minor show match. Problems? Hell, no.

Next thing: Post beta, for no reason at all, a lot of us thought we need to step up our game, we thought we need big artificially hyped tournaments, with a vast set of rules to it, banners, trailers, casters and so on. There was much talk before anyone actually started to open Brood War. I admit, some hype is nice to have, that comes with a good event, but it's not really needed, it's not what made us fell in love with the game. The concept of professionally organized tournaments has nothing to do with the Russian approach. The Russian spirit and eSports probably meet somewhere, but both decided it would be better if they went separate ways. Which is good, because the charm the Russians have comes from their complete ignorance of the traditional European/North American organizational forms. It's new, it's refreshing.

Usually, referees sit in channels and have a hard time to settle a dispute between players. You'll be forced to give walk overs, because one player was afk for a second too long, you have to convince people that the rule "repeat the game" makes sense for disc cases and is fair to everyone. Not so much for the Russians, they have a completely different view of things. If you watched yoda organizing while playing, you'd probably had to laugh your ass off. A few weeks ago some Canadian posted a statement like 'I totally thought the event (E/N: ironically in Moscow) was being organized by the players.' - well that sounds stupid, but it's more or less what yoda does in case of walk overs. Just ignore the players until the one everyone is waiting for comes back to his keyboard. The games are being played and nobody ever complains, because all they'd hear would be "Ja ne ponimaju po-angliskii" from yoda. It's strange but it works, so why change it? It gets even better - the custom for an IP Conflict was yoda tossing a coin in front of his webcam. A strategy adopted by Plumbum in the NO KR Tour later. That worked, too. Fuck professional eSports when you can have amateur Brood War!

It's not the desire to make the game as popular as it possible can be, the need to rub Brood War in players from different communities that made me a long term part of the scene. Artificial advertisement doesn't last, true passion on the other hand can achieve amazing things.


Hitchhiker's Guide to Russia




People think that talking to Russians is a stressful task or hard to do. A common misconception. Our friends from the East do understand English very good (if you're an idiot some chose to pretend they don't though), sometimes it's hard for them to respond due to the language barrier, but for the most, it's doable. I highly encourage you to actually give it a try.


Some Phrases



Cyrillic seems hard to read, when it really isn't. I suggest - if you really want - to look it up somewhere. Once you got the hang of it you can abuse google translator to transform the romanized sentences into cyrllic. It works so-so, but with a bit of training it's doable. Here are a few phrases to impress the Russians:

  • привет - Hi
  • здравствуй - Hello
  • как дела - how are you
  • хорошо - good
  • бум бум сучка! - what an entertaining game!
  • кто играть на (game/stream)-е - Who plays on (add the eat the end of the name)
  • я не понимаю - I don't understand (po-russki - Russian)
  • йода (or any nick) играет хорошо - yoda plays good
  • спасиба / спс - thanks
  • Это плохая стратегия, я не буду ее играть - I like this strategy very much, thank you
  • сколько стоит пилон алдарис? - How much is the Pylon, Artanis?
  • я буду играть в дефилер туре! - I will play in the next Defiler Tour!



Defiler Chat



Once you mastered the puzzle you can register an account at defiler.ru. With this you can actively participate in the chat on the right hand side - which is way easier than it seems. I can only recommend you learn how to use the meme's, these are what makes the chat so awesome. Everyone talks in memes and so should you.


:Northkorea: shoud be added everywhere


You'll see that at the bottom of the table there are a few options. Do not, and I can't stress this enough, open a picture if you can't watch NSFW content. Defiler is an adult community (except Dewalt), hence a lot of tits. Tits and Defiler go hand in hand.

Also, these things do work, too:


[d]:meme-name: text[/d]
generates a Demotivator

[img]url.file-ending[/img]
shows your pic in the chat when Pic is activated

/deal NUMBER
you can accept a bet on a game if you have enough gas by typing this


Gas on Defiler means some sort of currency. You get a few by registrating or can win some in some tournaments (Gaz Tournaments). Sometimes, if you contribute well, some Russians may gift you some. It's for no real use, just to make the bets on streams more interesting. Oh, you can theoretically use it to ban a user from the chat - the longer the ban (usually 5 to n+1 messages), the more gas is needed.


Add Your Stream



Unlike other pages, Defiler gives you the option to add your own stream to their site. Or any stream that isn't there already for that matter. Which makes the page the best thing if you really are only sticking around to watch some games while relaxing and chatting with some people.

To add your stream (or any twitch.tv stream) go to the gear-wheel icon on the right side of the stream list. In the drop-down menu select add stream. Now paste this in:

+ Show Spoiler +

<object id="stream8" id="stream8" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" height="508" width="640" id="live_embed_player_flash" data="http://www.twitch.tv/widgets/live_embed_player.swf?channel=CHANNELNAME" bgcolor="#000000"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" /><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always" /><param name="allowNetworking" value="all" /><param name="movie" value="http://www.twitch.tv/widgets/live_embed_player.swf" /><param name="flashvars" value="channel=CHANNELNAME&auto_play=false&start_volume=25" /></object>


Replace CHANNELNAME with the name of the twitch channel name. And you're done, the stream will now appear in your stream list, which you can find in the drop down menu under "My Streams". Click on the dark swarm symbol to activate your stream, and the burrow symbol to de-activate it. Not too hard!


Rediscover Brood War



Thee shall have fun. This is the most important rule. Ask, interact, do what you do, nobody will harm you, be angry or get you banned. Unless you act like a total douche, then you'll be ignored. Maybe you get a :northkorea: for it, not sure, never tried to really annoy anyone over at defiler or reps.ru. Also, you can be certain that you will discover a few gems while talking with them - they have an amazing sense of humor.

Usually a conversation starts like this - a completely normal scenario: Any user, in our example, Powert (a quite skilled Protoss), brags about a very good move he streamed live and links you to this:



Now just wait, you won't be disappointed. Some of Defiler's users seem to have a giant .txt file with the utmost embarrassing moves to counter such a video. It'll take a few minutes, then someone responds to Powert with this:



Or, if the users are a bit tired, wait for the casters to do some epic stuff. You don't need to understand, just sit back and watch. I recommend Terror[fOu] Plumbum, if you have the chance.



Then again, the master of chaos is still yoda. Sadly, he stopped showing his webcam. Usually, there are stuffed cats (or real cats) on his keyboard, with who he does some kind of a show. He traded his cat for his wife apparently, which occasionally comes along and just owns yoda in terms of awesomeness. Which happened in the Russian King of the Hill - Largo lost to Dewalt, it was 3-0 and Largo couldn't help but lose to Dewalt's drops. Then this happened:



Btw, this video is still haunting poor Largo. I feel with you buddy.

lol wtf. While checking the page on wiki I decided to listen yoda's wife song and lose again. Got shoot outed from a poker tourney :E


Speaking of which - Largo, I know you are going to kill me, but it's too good - the Terran is always the go-to guy for good stories. If you ask him for pics of players he finds sources for you. But, the troll that he is, never warns you before. He linked me to Heme's user uploads/pictures, but somehow forgot to add that Heme was nude in almost all of them. Thanks buddy.

Also, Largo posts blogs that would be automatically auto-Grand-Master'ed around here. The story is old to the Russians, but I still have to laugh when I think about it (no offense Largo <3). Apparently the Russian was jogging through a park on the route he always uses. He always would pass a small pond with ducks in, Chernobyl ducks, to be precise. Now, in June 2010 the ducks weren't that friendly and attacked poor Largo, who actually liked them. Reps.ru users responded. Great stuff.


Anatidaephobia - The Fear That You are Being Watched by a Duck


Before we drift off too much - really do go over there, you'll have a lot of fun.


totally unrelated, yet a cool meme



Final Words




I realize that foreign Brood War was struggling and chaotic in the past three years, I also understand that Teamliquid's resources are limited. They can't cover everything. The Russians do have some problems with English, but are eager to share their stories, events and show matches. It's our (and your) term to help them, participate and give them the gratitude they deserve. This is my way to say thank you for what probably was the most important pillar of post-beta Brood War for the actively playing foreigners.

To end with, here's what defiler.ru users say:

LargoHey guys, we're living in a simple world. If you want BW to be alive, to be young and hot, you should do something, not just drink beer while watching Sayle's stream. History shows that we got a great community. We can do everything we need and we want. What does BW need now? What can YOU do?

Host news. Post the news to your favourite bw-sites. People who can make interesting news are always wanted.

You do not want to post the news? Make the news! Got any ideas of great tourneys — share it, realize it.

May be it all sounds silly or shitlike, but… just don't complaint, guys, please. If you want something to be done, just do it.



DRaWWithout Defiler I think that foreign BW would be dead. A lot of Europeans play in their tournaments and it's important to have foreign events simply to keep the community, if everyone goes to play on Fish there's less interaction and we diminish. Community, and conversing to build bonds with other gamers in our scene is very important and well established with defiler around, I have met so many people using their hilarious chat interface and made many friends


eOnzErGThe Russian BW community has always been strong.I'm scared recently by the inactivity of team reps, but I'm sure they still gonna be involved. It's amazing how much tours they host and organized. Defiler.ru is an amazing site to chat and troll 24/7 .
So please keep doing well in the future and don't let bw alone ( I can't talk bad about the Russian community or I'm dead :yoda: )
Support the Russian BW community plz



YodaI am really lazy right now. Can you just paste? Some classic literature is always good.

Maxim Gorky

They lived in the old brave and strong people, but once other tribes came and drove them into the wilderness. They could either go back and fight to the death with the enemy, but then would have died with them and their covenants. Could they advance deep into the impenetrable forest. So these people were sitting and thinking. They are weakened by the dreary thoughts, and even offered to give up some enemies into slavery. But then came Danko, convinced them to try to pass through a terrible forest and led them forward. Once the storm broke over the forest was so dark and scary that people are angry with Danko and wanted to kill him. Then his heart boiled anger, but out of pity for the people it was extinguished. He loved people, and thought that, perhaps, they will die without it. Danko severed hands on his chest and tore out her heart and raised it high above his head. It glowed brighter than the sun, and people fascinated, again followed him. And now died, but died without complaining and crying. Danko brought people out of the forest into a beautiful desert. He threw a joyful look on vacant land and laughed proudly. And then fell and - died. The men, happy and full of hope, did not see his death and did not see what else is burning near the body Danko his brave heart. Only one person noticed it cautious and afraid of something, stepped on the proud heart of the foot ... And here it is dispersed in the sparks died down ... Since in the desert before the storm seen blue sparks from the heart of Danko.



References:



            ¹ Strelok's post about Heme at reps.ru
            ² Pro7ect Mini Tour
            ³ Sergey Mavrodi on Wikipedia

+ Show Spoiler +
      Pictures:

            All high quality photos (C) reps)Ayumi
            Mavrodi taken from google images, edited by NinaZerg
            Naked Heme taken from reps.ru user galery (for the sake of your own mental health I won't link)

      Sources (articles, interviews, event info):

            www.reps.ru
            www.defiler.ru
            www.liquipedia.net
            www.iccup.com
            heyoka: Love of the Game


      Sources (articles, interviews, event info):

            Tesla (Nostalgia League)
            yoda (Defiler VODs)
            Hacklebeast (Sziky v Pusan / Pro7ect v Michael)



Massive thanks, hugs and kisses, as well as a free beer (or a cookie, depends) if I ever get to meet one of you, goes to:

            itsjustatank (proof read & feedback)
            reps)Largo (player, tour, LAN & trivia info)
            reps)Ayumi (best photographer in foreign Brood War)
            reps)Defi (info & translations)
            reps)Plumbum (info & explaining Russian mentality)
            fr)yoda (information & video sources)
            2Pacalypse- (forum support & design stuff)
            salle (for saying he won't read it and thus reverse-psychological motivating me to do even more)
@DonGeckone on Twitterstuff // JOIN THE YODA FANCLUB OR YOU'RE REALLY REALLY UNCOOL: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398220
iG.Voltron
Profile Joined May 2009
26 Posts
September 16 2012 23:27 GMT
#65
i was a pretty consistant high level zerg in 2x2 under iG.Savvy B+ in season 17, lots of good people still active then.



Djin)ftw(
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Germany3357 Posts
September 17 2012 01:14 GMT
#66
actually it would be interesting to see how testie/mondi would fare against a random 2v2 team (nizzy/yan/LJT/belladonna...) nowadays. We should have a fundraiser for this
"jk CLG best mindgames using the baron to counterthrow" - boesthius
Wgtourmaps
Profile Joined September 2012
Niger82 Posts
September 17 2012 01:48 GMT
#67
Yan & Nizzy would rape them since they play SC2 now, and seemingly have become noobs as Yan would say.
Gandalf
Profile Joined August 2004
Pakistan1905 Posts
September 17 2012 02:12 GMT
#68
Obviously they haven't played SC1 in a very, very long time, but I'm certain with sufficient practice, they will eclipse any ICCUP 2v2 player. I was a team player myself in SC1, but theres no denying that the best, most talented players have always gravitated towards 1v1, simply because it requires far more skill and is much more competitive. Flash and Jaedong would need 1 month of practice to crush players like yan and belladona.

Arguing about current skill level is kinda stupid since Testie hasn't played SC1 in like 6 years? or something.
Wgtourmaps
Profile Joined September 2012
Niger82 Posts
September 18 2012 02:16 GMT
#69
Yan & Nizzy have accomplished everything Mondragon & Testie have thirty times over. I am tired of people like you saying 1v1 players are superior. 2v2 is so different that Yan & Nizzy easily eat 1v1ers. 2v2 requires immense strategy, vastly different than 1v1 games. Every 1v1 player, such as yourself, makes the same argument.
MannerzMan
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States63 Posts
September 18 2012 02:27 GMT
#70
what about LJT? or maybe Frizz
LuMiX
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
China5757 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-18 03:31:47
September 18 2012 03:31 GMT
#71
Good 1v1 players would be better players than 2v2ers if they spent a little time practicing. Their mechanics are better overall so they would be a better team eventually. Forgot about Frizz, good call, MannerzMan!
Wgtourmaps
Profile Joined September 2012
Niger82 Posts
September 18 2012 04:26 GMT
#72
Tell me about Frizz please.
Mazur
Profile Joined July 2011
Poland480 Posts
September 18 2012 04:44 GMT
#73
On September 13 2012 09:50 Wgtourmaps wrote:


Stoprocent aka Sto-_-Pro aka Lurek (Decent Modern Zerg)
Southpark aka Methoda (Decent Modern Zerg)


Sorry but Methoda is also Lurek not SouthPark
There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.
RebirthOfLeGenD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
USA5860 Posts
September 18 2012 05:17 GMT
#74
On September 18 2012 13:26 Wgtourmaps wrote:
Tell me about Frizz please.

Frizz was in some random east clan, I think it was called Confed for a while? I don't recall specifically. He used to partner LJT though, I remember me and my ally back then played a few games against them on PGT or ICCup or something and got crushed every game even if we managed to kill Frizz.

Frizz from what I recall was a low APM player, usually around 100apm but incredibly efficient and a very good team player. I didn't know much else about him then though.

I do miss the 2x2 BW scene though, it was such a small community we almost all knew each other if we were there long enough lol
Be a man, Become a Legend. TL Mafia Forum Ask for access!!
Wgtourmaps
Profile Joined September 2012
Niger82 Posts
September 18 2012 05:26 GMT
#75
(ConFed)?
LuMiX
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
China5757 Posts
September 18 2012 05:50 GMT
#76
Yeah, Frizz was old school. He was on USA A as the 2v2 team with LJT and Rush back when there were nationwars and people actually cared about it. Keeper-Frizz is the id he used on east. Drewbie was actually in Keeper also as Keeper-Hotmed. Very good player and efficient like legend said.
Game
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
3191 Posts
September 18 2012 06:19 GMT
#77
On September 18 2012 14:50 Metal[x] wrote:
Yeah, Frizz was old school. He was on USA A as the 2v2 team with LJT and Rush back when there were nationwars and people actually cared about it. Keeper-Frizz is the id he used on east. Drewbie was actually in Keeper also as Keeper-Hotmed. Very good player and efficient like legend said.

Both Frizz and Drewbie were proven to have hacked.
SC is like sex. You should play often, but never too hard. And you should only try hard when it matters.
LuMiX
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
China5757 Posts
September 18 2012 06:46 GMT
#78
Don't remember that. When was this?
i am plus
Profile Joined October 2011
United States190 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-18 06:53:37
September 18 2012 06:52 GMT
#79
whole keeper clan got caught hacking lol
and i think i remember a cw between keeper and like onfire or something with game vs frizz and game wiped the floor with him, then he accused game of hacking and then all of keeper got busted a week later
Game
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
3191 Posts
September 18 2012 06:54 GMT
#80
On September 18 2012 15:52 i am plus wrote:
whole keeper clan got caught hacking lol
and i think i remember a cw between keeper and like onfire or something with game vs frizz and game wiped the floor with him, then he accused game of hacking and then all of keeper got busted a week later

HOLY SHIT, I can't believe you remember that rofl. They were really loud, too. Then bam, oblivion busted wide open.
SC is like sex. You should play often, but never too hard. And you should only try hard when it matters.
Game
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
3191 Posts
September 18 2012 06:57 GMT
#81
On September 18 2012 15:46 Metal[x] wrote:
Don't remember that. When was this?

The big oblivion bust on iCCup.
SC is like sex. You should play often, but never too hard. And you should only try hard when it matters.
i am plus
Profile Joined October 2011
United States190 Posts
September 18 2012 06:57 GMT
#82
yea i was obs both games roflroflroflorlf
Ryan307 :)
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
United States1289 Posts
September 18 2012 15:20 GMT
#83
Devaztayta trololol

But seriously I'm not sure why you havnt added testie to the list. He hacked loooooong time ago, but cleaned up his act later. It's common knowledge he WAS NOT hacking when he was in ToT w/ mondi on their rampages
Dont let the action of factual things fracture your casual swing
mca64[KDV]
Profile Joined May 2012
Poland463 Posts
September 18 2012 17:51 GMT
#84
trutacz dont play 2v2 anymore cause its for noobs

gg no re

User was warned for this post
mca64[KDV]
Profile Joined May 2012
Poland463 Posts
September 18 2012 17:53 GMT
#85
On September 14 2012 05:01 Game wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2012 14:58 reps)Defi wrote:
top5 terran of icc history (including koreans) are:Capi, Jesus, Scan, Member, existminizerg

Same person.


reps)member = scan?

shit i won vs scan's toss?
oovv
Profile Joined March 2008
366 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-18 17:59:23
September 18 2012 17:59 GMT
#86
On September 19 2012 02:53 mca64[KDV] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2012 05:01 Game wrote:
On September 13 2012 14:58 reps)Defi wrote:
top5 terran of icc history (including koreans) are:Capi, Jesus, Scan, Member, existminizerg

Same person.


reps)member = scan?

shit i won vs scan's toss?


reps)member is ace, different korean terran
Oops.. i did it again
Jamel
Profile Joined August 2011
United States26 Posts
September 18 2012 19:10 GMT
#87
FK.Timothy was Xiaozi, right? Because he was an amazing 2v2 zerg player.
reps)Defi
Profile Joined September 2007
Russian Federation337 Posts
September 18 2012 19:38 GMT
#88
existminizerg isnt capi, lol.
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
September 18 2012 22:02 GMT
#89
On September 18 2012 11:16 Wgtourmaps wrote:
Yan & Nizzy have accomplished everything Mondragon & Testie have thirty times over. I am tired of people like you saying 1v1 players are superior. 2v2 is so different that Yan & Nizzy easily eat 1v1ers. 2v2 requires immense strategy, vastly different than 1v1 games. Every 1v1 player, such as yourself, makes the same argument.


I beat an A+ 2v2 player in 1v1. It was easy.
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
Keniji
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Netherlands2569 Posts
September 18 2012 22:25 GMT
#90
On September 18 2012 11:16 Wgtourmaps wrote:
Yan & Nizzy have accomplished everything Mondragon & Testie have thirty times over. I am tired of people like you saying 1v1 players are superior. 2v2 is so different that Yan & Nizzy easily eat 1v1ers. 2v2 requires immense strategy, vastly different than 1v1 games. Every 1v1 player, such as yourself, makes the same argument.


What's your mission?

Actually the skillset required for 1v1 and 2v2 are highly similiar. You make it sound like it's a total different game. Yes, you can't use the same bo's you use in 1v1, and you need communication with your teammate, also since the games are usually low eco the focus is a bit more focused on micro than macro. The skillset for zergs is actually very similiar to ZvZ 1v1.

And yes, given some time for bo's and 2v2 feeling, most of the top 1v1 players given the right teammate would do very very well in 2v2.

I mean, almost any 2v2 player is playing 1v1 regularly, too, just not that successful, you can't say that for 1v1 players playing 2v2. The transition from 1v1 to 2v2 is way easier than the other way around.

I don't know what's your problem with mondragon either, he proved himself not only in 1v1 but over and over in 2v2, too. Maybe it was before your time (I don't know), but the ZZ teams he played in were legendary (to use the term of your op). They literally destroyed every single 2on2 team there was.

Oh, and don't say I don't know what I am talking about, I beat players like Yan and LJT not only once on Iccup back when I played.

Nontheless 2v2 is indeed awesome and it do deserve more attention than it gets. Also the top 2v2 players are incredible skilled in the game as well. Don't get me wrong on that.



RebirthOfLeGenD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
USA5860 Posts
September 19 2012 00:31 GMT
#91
lol I totally forgot almost the entire confed team got caught hacking. I remember when that shit blew up on TL like 5 years ago. I didn't know Frizz got caught though.
Be a man, Become a Legend. TL Mafia Forum Ask for access!!
i am plus
Profile Joined October 2011
United States190 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-19 01:34:55
September 19 2012 01:34 GMT
#92
its like this if ur good 1v1 u can be molded into a great 2v2 player u just gotta learn bos sim citys and styles of 2v2 its simple

i cant stand to lose in 1v1 so i play 2v2 so i always have someone to play for the loss : )
RebirthOfLeGenD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
USA5860 Posts
September 19 2012 01:36 GMT
#93
Downloading BW now :O ICCup for 2x2? Also Andrew, add me on skype so we can play.
Be a man, Become a Legend. TL Mafia Forum Ask for access!!
LuMiX
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
China5757 Posts
September 19 2012 05:27 GMT
#94
I dont think frizz was part of the hacking. I know a few people from confed were. HuK was on confed also.
RebirthOfLeGenD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
USA5860 Posts
September 19 2012 07:10 GMT
#95
What was HuK's name on confed?
Be a man, Become a Legend. TL Mafia Forum Ask for access!!
Wgtourmaps
Profile Joined September 2012
Niger82 Posts
September 20 2012 02:33 GMT
#96
Can someone plz tell me more about Mondragon/Testie? Were they dual Zerg pioneers?
DoubleAce
Profile Joined June 2009
United States108 Posts
September 20 2012 02:58 GMT
#97
Whatever happen to Xiaozi? I made a topic, but it got closed and was asked to ask here.
LuMiX
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
China5757 Posts
September 20 2012 03:23 GMT
#98
Huk used keepers-huk. mondi and testie played ZR I would assume? I could be wrong just a guess. Xiaozi played in the C-OSL, so I guess he is still playing bw?
i am plus
Profile Joined October 2011
United States190 Posts
September 20 2012 04:16 GMT
#99
when scan and i where playing 2v2 on china server they said that he was playing 2v2 on there as well
Wgtourmaps
Profile Joined September 2012
Niger82 Posts
September 20 2012 04:21 GMT
#100
Xiaozi should play Iccup TT.
MicroMonkey
Profile Joined April 2012
95 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-20 07:50:12
September 20 2012 07:49 GMT
#101
I neever played 2v2 BW how do you know about all this players? What I know 2v2 BW was small and only fun fun? Btw what is the diffrent between 2v2 sc2 and 2v2 bw?

Frends I have asked say that 2v2 sc2 is alot better!
kAra
Profile Joined September 2004
Germany1424 Posts
September 20 2012 09:16 GMT
#102
http://sc-player.marw.net/player-stat-list.php?st_player_id=133934&ev_id=2

respect for megazerg
mada mada dane
i am plus
Profile Joined October 2011
United States190 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-20 10:48:36
September 20 2012 10:47 GMT
#103
2v2 on sc2 is is all about shared bases and sharing minerals bw doesnt have that, on sc2 if u die ur ally can give u minerals to live, if u die on bw ur done no more nothing, and on sc2 u can control ur allys units and others, bw u cant. on sc2 2v2 is like 1 side of map vs other side there is not diveristy in the maps like it is on bw where u can spawn at diffrent locations away form your oppnent, but i see why its like that on sc2 casue the units are so buffed like helion roach ect that u cant handle a 1v2 attack like u can on bw. theres no ramp advtanges in sc2 or anything like that its mostly whoever has best combiation of units, where in bw its all about micro and macro, build orders and how well u know the map.


donno if this make sense makes sense in my head O_o
Bill Murray
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States9292 Posts
September 20 2012 10:57 GMT
#104
@OP - to say "testie and mondragon were inconsistent"
um, have you checked oh, i dont know, WCG from 2003-2007? LOL

and in terms of 2v2, i would argue that you obviously didn't play against these players
they were consistent every season, they just smurfed a lot on things like PGT/WGT/iCCup... probably still do, but on fish.
eriador, for instance, was RANDOMINATOR, I believe, and he was really buddy-buddy with these guys.

On September 15 2012 02:42 lastshadow wrote:
XiaoZi did not retire, he moved to China and will play in china's OSL.

he was reaaallly good at keeping his drones alive vs pressure

On September 14 2012 03:02 laLAlA[uC] wrote:
Me.

I joke. I'm a Yan and Xaoxi fanboy.

hellmuth top zerg 2v2 :p i jest
University of Kentucky Basketball #1
Bill Murray
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States9292 Posts
September 20 2012 10:59 GMT
#105
On September 16 2012 15:08 Wgtourmaps wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 16 2012 14:10 Gandalf wrote:
You seem incredibly biased in favor of Belladona, lol. It feels like you made this thread not to generate an actual discussion on the topic, but find like minded people to extol Belladon's skill.

Overall, I would say Mondi + Testie were the best 2v2 zergs. Afaik they dominated the 2v2 scene like no other team has.

It is common knowledge Testie was a known hacker most of his career, and probably an unknown hacker for portions off the rest of it. It is uncommon knowledge that allies gravitate to a map hacker like Testie to have the winningest win rates possible They werent around when the best teams were, and don't have prolonged 2v2 results.

ARE YOU SAYING HE WAS CAPABLE OF HACKING WHEN HE GOT TO WCG LIKE 4 YEARS IN A ROW? lol
Sorry, caps
University of Kentucky Basketball #1
Bill Murray
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States9292 Posts
September 20 2012 11:00 GMT
#106
On September 17 2012 10:14 Djin)ftw( wrote:
actually it would be interesting to see how testie/mondi would fare against a random 2v2 team (nizzy/yan/LJT/belladonna...) nowadays. We should have a fundraiser for this

this

omg this

i would donate quite a bit
University of Kentucky Basketball #1
Bill Murray
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States9292 Posts
September 20 2012 11:04 GMT
#107
Christian Schäfer
University of Kentucky Basketball #1
SilSol
Profile Joined April 2012
Sweden2744 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-20 13:38:06
September 20 2012 13:13 GMT
#108
Mondragon/LJT/Testie were really good at 2v2 these dudes are or were nothing compared to them.
even SaFT/StarGlenn/MaDFroG were excellent at 2v2 even tho they retired.

but at least Mondi/LJT/Testie were the best foreign 2v2'ers ever.

edit: ok saw that u added mondi/ljt/testie
http://fragbite.se/user/117868/silsol since 2006 http://www.reddit.com/u/silsol77
Gandalf
Profile Joined August 2004
Pakistan1905 Posts
September 20 2012 13:20 GMT
#109
To the OP, I was almost exclusively a team player in SC1, but it was obvious to me that:

1) 1v1 is harder than 2v2 in every single way. Harder mechanics, far more depth in strategy.

2) 1v1 attracted the best players. It was far, far more competitive than 2v2. Can you ever imagine a player like Flash playing Iccup 2v2 when he could be winning the OSL?

For these reasons, I am convinced that top level 1v1 players, given the motivation to properly and sufficiently practice, would crush any dedicated 2v2 players. If Mondi and Testie in their prime PROPERLY practised 2v2, I'd expect them to 50-0 someone like Yan.

Its also interesting that Yan should call them newbies now, considering they're long retired. I doubt he'd have the balls to say that to their face when they were still playing. Mondi and Testie dominated the 1v1 non korean scene for years, against competition far more skilled than what the very limited 2v2 iccup scene has to offer.

To give a SC2 analogy, if stephano and naniwa sufficiently practised 2v2, I'd expect none of the dedicated 2v2 ladder teams to give them any trouble.
RebirthOfLeGenD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
USA5860 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-20 13:27:13
September 20 2012 13:26 GMT
#110
I think Yan is also exceptionally skilled 1on1. However, I think its generally agreed upon that what you said is/was true. Having mechanics and really good micro helps a lot in 2on2 but it is much more forgiving. For example, I got to B- 2on2 a couple of years ago. I got bored of 1on1 laddering but if I really really tried maybe I could of gotten C.
Be a man, Become a Legend. TL Mafia Forum Ask for access!!
Gandalf
Profile Joined August 2004
Pakistan1905 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-20 13:38:52
September 20 2012 13:38 GMT
#111
I'm aware Yan achieved A- for 1v1, and although I never saw any of his games, I did hear from a lot of people it was mostly cheesing or all ins (which I'd expect a 2v2 player to be good at). That said, Mondi and Testie weren't your regular 1v1ers, they were at the very top of the non korean scene for like 4-5 years. And afaik, they also went undefeated in 2v2 on wgtour and then pgtour, something no other 2v2 player has achieved.
MicroMonkey
Profile Joined April 2012
95 Posts
September 20 2012 15:56 GMT
#112
So what is better I never playd BW 2v2 so I am not voteing.

Poll: Bw 2v2 or sc2 2v2? what is the better game?

bw (12)
 
92%

sc2 (1)
 
8%

13 total votes

Your vote: Bw 2v2 or sc2 2v2? what is the better game?

(Vote): sc2
(Vote): bw



Taking in every thing in account.

User was warned for this post
Gandalf
Profile Joined August 2004
Pakistan1905 Posts
September 20 2012 16:26 GMT
#113
BW 2v2 was 10x better. More fun, more skill requiring.

For the record I've been playing SC2 since it was launched.
MicroMonkey
Profile Joined April 2012
95 Posts
September 20 2012 17:18 GMT
#114
Is there anyway fore me to watch 2v2 bw? VODs, cast streams och any records? I dont have sc1 anymore and dont plan to get it.

(I think 2v2 sc2 is awsome!)
Ganfei2
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
473 Posts
September 22 2012 16:02 GMT
#115
On September 20 2012 22:38 Gandalf wrote:
I'm aware Yan achieved A- for 1v1, and although I never saw any of his games, I did hear from a lot of people it was mostly cheesing or all ins (which I'd expect a 2v2 player to be good at). That said, Mondi and Testie weren't your regular 1v1ers, they were at the very top of the non korean scene for like 4-5 years. And afaik, they also went undefeated in 2v2 on wgtour and then pgtour, something no other 2v2 player has achieved.


Yan played only cheese, only toss, and dodged all pvt matchups if I recall. Or was it pvz? Whatever it was he dodged an entire third of all possible matchups.
SK.Testie
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada11084 Posts
September 22 2012 18:35 GMT
#116
Win every 2v2 competition ever for years straight and go undefeated through tournaments and ladder seasons.
Get called inconsistent.
Social Justice is a fools errand. May all the adherents at its church be thwarted. Of all the religions I have come across, it is by far the most detestable.
Game
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
3191 Posts
September 22 2012 18:41 GMT
#117
On September 23 2012 03:35 SK.Testie wrote:
Win every 2v2 competition ever for years straight and go undefeated through tournaments and ladder seasons.
Get called inconsistent.

You heard it here first folks, Testie has never lost.
SC is like sex. You should play often, but never too hard. And you should only try hard when it matters.
Harem
Profile Joined November 2007
United States11393 Posts
September 22 2012 18:48 GMT
#118
On September 23 2012 03:41 Game wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2012 03:35 SK.Testie wrote:
Win every 2v2 competition ever for years straight and go undefeated through tournaments and ladder seasons.
Get called inconsistent.

You heard it here first folks, Testie has never lost.

Moderator。◕‿◕。
Game
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
3191 Posts
September 22 2012 18:59 GMT
#119
SC is like sex. You should play often, but never too hard. And you should only try hard when it matters.
Ganfei2
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
473 Posts
September 22 2012 19:38 GMT
#120
Has played and been champion of countless tournaments for more than a decade and former #1 ranked Starcraft Broodwar player on the Gosugamers Player Ranking as well as the worlds #1 2v2 player of all time in Starcraft. Has set multiple records in every ladder played in, such as longest win streak in a ladder & longest win streak in 2v2, longest time holding #1 etc. Some of the large scale lan events attended are at least 4 Canadian WCG Finals & WCG Grand Finals, 2 WCG Pan-American Championships, IEST, PGL, 2 Blizzcon appearances, and Blizzard's WWI tournament in Korea.


Bill Murray
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States9292 Posts
September 22 2012 22:19 GMT
#121
On September 23 2012 03:35 SK.Testie wrote:
Win every 2v2 competition ever for years straight and go undefeated through tournaments and ladder seasons.
Get called inconsistent.

i defended your offracing, nick
vehemently
University of Kentucky Basketball #1
reddog1999
Profile Joined June 2009
United States143 Posts
September 23 2012 02:16 GMT
#122
I enjoyed 2v2 quite a bit more in bw, back in like the early days. Even though I know players got better back in 97-99 Myself and Pot crushed the 2v2 scene.
Sum41
Profile Joined November 2011
Chile345 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-23 02:43:03
September 23 2012 02:31 GMT
#123
Belladona and babo are really good, i don't know why everybody underate them, or that's what i think
Hydralisk so fasts and dangerous :D
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