On May 17 2012 19:11 rslee wrote: By Rain I assume you meant By.Sun
Well he goes by Rain these days, but yes it's the same guy, it's just that TLPD recognises the name as someone else, it does that with soO as well. You have to type out their full handle/clan tag sometimes.
Oh man I hate when progamers change their ID >.< Its not like we use their real names or something so we never forget or confuse !! Oh god SC2 !! The judgment day was truly inevitable Brace yourself brother and sister !! >.<
Interesting to see Tossgirl as Terran in SC2. I wish she was Protoss, though, since her name still doesn't make sense with her playing as anything other than Protoss. I think she went to a Chinese esports event last summer and was listed as playing Zerg in a small showmatch tournament, but apparently she didn't play and ended up just doing publicity stuff.
Um... Violet was also on the KT roster for almost the entirety of the last season, since December. It didn't mean he was ready to play. I wouldn't assume that he is until you get any official news about it.
On May 18 2012 02:14 Kiett wrote: Um... Violet was also on the KT roster for almost the entirety of the last season, since December. It didn't mean he was ready to play. I wouldn't assume that he is until you get any official news about it.
Yes but we all knew his condition was not great so he would not play on a roster as good as KT's. However with 7 game series it is more certain he will get some play time. With all the secrecy going on between the teams, I don't expect to hear any news on him until he appears in a match.
On May 18 2012 02:14 Kiett wrote: Um... Violet was also on the KT roster for almost the entirety of the last season, since December. It didn't mean he was ready to play. I wouldn't assume that he is until you get any official news about it.
Yes but we all knew his condition was not great so he would not play on a roster as good as KT's. However with 7 game series it is more certain he will get some play time. With all the secrecy going on between the teams, I don't expect to hear any news on him until he appears in a match.
Given the reason why he was out, I doubt we or the other teams will have that kind of surprise. News of full recovery and of a ready to play at a high level Violet go, imho, beyond team strategies given what he endured.
On May 17 2012 23:53 Heathen wrote: SC2. Zergs think Zerg for SC2 is weak. So they are either T or P haha. ZERG WEAK!
zerg is also the most different race from BW -> SC2 (in terms of strategies and skill transfers) and also the most boring race in sc2.
Nope. What would make you say that?
while it's true the other races got a lot more boring in SC2 as well, the zerg lost most of the aspects that made them fun to play as in BW. did you even play zerg in BW before? SC2 has no muta micro, no defilers, no lurkers, no scourge. essentially no units benefit from practicing control except for maybe making sure banelings don't kill unimportant targets. controlling a zerg army in sc2 is extremely unsatisfying compared to BW because of unlimited selection. roaches and hydras are really fucking boring. infestors are pretty lame. it's easy to see how pro BW zergs would decide to switch to other races since zerg feels so different anyway (and is very boring).
This is very complicated for me. Now I have to come to terms with the fact that my fanhoods and anti-fanhoods from BW and SC2 are no longer separate. What is my favorite team? I do not know...is it Evil Geniuses or is it CJ? Who am I the biggest anti-fan of? I do not know...do I hate Fantasy or MKP more?
The one straightforward thing is that Jaedong is now my favorite Broodwar AND my favorite SC2 player.
On May 17 2012 23:53 Heathen wrote: SC2. Zergs think Zerg for SC2 is weak. So they are either T or P haha. ZERG WEAK!
zerg is also the most different race from BW -> SC2 (in terms of strategies and skill transfers) and also the most boring race in sc2.
Nope. What would make you say that?
while it's true the other races got a lot more boring in SC2 as well, the zerg lost most of the aspects that made them fun to play as in BW. did you even play zerg in BW before? SC2 has no muta micro, no defilers, no lurkers, no scourge. essentially no units benefit from practicing control except for maybe making sure banelings don't kill unimportant targets. controlling a zerg army in sc2 is extremely unsatisfying compared to BW because of unlimited selection. roaches and hydras are really fucking boring. infestors are pretty lame. it's easy to see how pro BW zergs would decide to switch to other races since zerg feels so different anyway (and is very boring).
Zerg is very different in SC2. In BW, Zerg feels weak in the lategame. In ZvT, it felt like trying your best not to die, using defilers and lurkers to stall time. In ZvP, I feel like the matchup depends too heavily on tier 1 hydralisks, whereas P would get to play with units that actually felt powerful like Archons, High Templars and Revears. IMO, Zerg in SC2 has a lot going for it.
For SC2 ZvT: A fun matchup with lots of diversity. SC2 fans' favorite matchup. ZvZ: Kind of weird, but a tons more dynamic than BW ZvZ where you would only see the same 3 combat units in 99% of the games. Every unit but the Broodlord is common in this matchup.
I would argue Protoss is the most boring race in SC2. They feel powerful, but only work well when grouped up, hence the ball effect. Boring to play and watch.
On May 17 2012 23:53 Heathen wrote: SC2. Zergs think Zerg for SC2 is weak. So they are either T or P haha. ZERG WEAK!
zerg is also the most different race from BW -> SC2 (in terms of strategies and skill transfers) and also the most boring race in sc2.
Nope. What would make you say that?
while it's true the other races got a lot more boring in SC2 as well, the zerg lost most of the aspects that made them fun to play as in BW. did you even play zerg in BW before? SC2 has no muta micro, no defilers, no lurkers, no scourge. essentially no units benefit from practicing control except for maybe making sure banelings don't kill unimportant targets. controlling a zerg army in sc2 is extremely unsatisfying compared to BW because of unlimited selection. roaches and hydras are really fucking boring. infestors are pretty lame. it's easy to see how pro BW zergs would decide to switch to other races since zerg feels so different anyway (and is very boring).
Zerg is very different in SC2. In BW, Zerg feels weak in the lategame. In ZvT, it felt like trying your best not to die, using defilers and lurkers to stall time. In ZvP, I feel like the matchup depends too heavily on tier 1 hydralisks, whereas P would get to play with units that actually felt powerful like Archons, High Templars and Revears. IMO, Zerg in SC2 has a lot going for it.
For SC2 ZvT: A fun matchup with lots of diversity. SC2 fans' favorite matchup. ZvZ: Kind of weird, but a tons more dynamic than BW ZvZ where you would only see the same 3 combat units in 99% of the games. Every unit but the Broodlord is common in this matchup.
I would argue Protoss is the most boring race in SC2. They feel powerful, but only work well when grouped up, hence the ball effect. Boring to play and watch.
I agree with the Protoss sentiment. Early to mid they feel intriguing, but the end game for them feels like it trends to being a critical mass of death. Don't think Zerg casters have been totally explored yet in SC2, but at the same time I think the casters are a bit shakey with regards to having a defined purpose.
On May 17 2012 23:53 Heathen wrote: SC2. Zergs think Zerg for SC2 is weak. So they are either T or P haha. ZERG WEAK!
zerg is also the most different race from BW -> SC2 (in terms of strategies and skill transfers) and also the most boring race in sc2.
Nope. What would make you say that?
while it's true the other races got a lot more boring in SC2 as well, the zerg lost most of the aspects that made them fun to play as in BW. did you even play zerg in BW before? SC2 has no muta micro, no defilers, no lurkers, no scourge. essentially no units benefit from practicing control except for maybe making sure banelings don't kill unimportant targets. controlling a zerg army in sc2 is extremely unsatisfying compared to BW because of unlimited selection. roaches and hydras are really fucking boring. infestors are pretty lame. it's easy to see how pro BW zergs would decide to switch to other races since zerg feels so different anyway (and is very boring).
Zerg is very different in SC2. In BW, Zerg feels weak in the lategame. In ZvT, it felt like trying your best not to die, using defilers and lurkers to stall time. In ZvP, I feel like the matchup depends too heavily on tier 1 hydralisks, whereas P would get to play with units that actually felt powerful like Archons, High Templars and Revears. IMO, Zerg in SC2 has a lot going for it.
For SC2 ZvT: A fun matchup with lots of diversity. SC2 fans' favorite matchup. ZvZ: Kind of weird, but a tons more dynamic than BW ZvZ where you would only see the same 3 combat units in 99% of the games. Every unit but the Broodlord is common in this matchup.
I would argue Protoss is the most boring race in SC2. They feel powerful, but only work well when grouped up, hence the ball effect. Boring to play and watch.
I agree with the Protoss sentiment. Early to mid they feel intriguing, but the end game for them feels like it trends to being a critical mass of death. Don't think Zerg casters have been totally explored yet in SC2, but at the same time I think the casters are a bit shakey with regards to having a defined purpose.
I think it's more of a game design oversight on Blizzard's part. Protoss are what they are in SC2 because their race mechanics eventually force them to become the lategame deathball composition in every matchup. Add the lack of a dedicated harrass unit (prisms and DTs are just cost inefficient, more often than not), and Protoss have mostly no choice but to turtle until it has a deathball.
On May 17 2012 23:53 Heathen wrote: SC2. Zergs think Zerg for SC2 is weak. So they are either T or P haha. ZERG WEAK!
zerg is also the most different race from BW -> SC2 (in terms of strategies and skill transfers) and also the most boring race in sc2.
Nope. What would make you say that?
while it's true the other races got a lot more boring in SC2 as well, the zerg lost most of the aspects that made them fun to play as in BW. did you even play zerg in BW before? SC2 has no muta micro, no defilers, no lurkers, no scourge. essentially no units benefit from practicing control except for maybe making sure banelings don't kill unimportant targets. controlling a zerg army in sc2 is extremely unsatisfying compared to BW because of unlimited selection. roaches and hydras are really fucking boring. infestors are pretty lame. it's easy to see how pro BW zergs would decide to switch to other races since zerg feels so different anyway (and is very boring).
Zerg is very different in SC2. In BW, Zerg feels weak in the lategame. In ZvT, it felt like trying your best not to die, using defilers and lurkers to stall time. In ZvP, I feel like the matchup depends too heavily on tier 1 hydralisks, whereas P would get to play with units that actually felt powerful like Archons, High Templars and Revears. IMO, Zerg in SC2 has a lot going for it.
For SC2 ZvT: A fun matchup with lots of diversity. SC2 fans' favorite matchup. ZvZ: Kind of weird, but a tons more dynamic than BW ZvZ where you would only see the same 3 combat units in 99% of the games. Every unit but the Broodlord is common in this matchup.
I would argue Protoss is the most boring race in SC2. They feel powerful, but only work well when grouped up, hence the ball effect. Boring to play and watch.
while your analysis of the BW matchups seems a bit dated, I have to repeat that the units in SC2 zerg aren't nearly as fun to play with (or to watch) as in BW. all of the fun units that zerg had were removed and all the new units aren't nearly as fun (and most units that stayed aren't as fun either: zerglings/mutas/hydras). while it's true that I haven't watched that much SC2 in the last year or so, whenever I do most games still seem boring and suffer from the same problems that they did from the start: boring unit interactions, death balls, too hard to make comebacks.
I feel like ZvT gets way too much credit from SC2 fans because it's the only non-mirror matchup that doesn't always have big death balls and "win the first battle -> instantly win game" syndrome, but the general battles just aren't that interesting for the most part (at least compared to BW ZvT). mutas are fucking shitty to watch/play with in sc2 since they can't be micro'd nearly as precisely. while watching marine micro vs banelings is the one saving grace in pretty much all of SC2 micro-wise, I would argue that it's about on par with watching marines split vs lurkers. HOWEVER, lurkers have about 5x more versatility compared to banelings. and then sc2 zvt is missing equivelents to so many little things that make the match-up so great in BW: scourge vs vessels, irradiate, swarm. drops are so much more exciting in BW because they have a much higher risk/reward ratio: drops can do far more damage in BW (harder for zerg to send ground forces to respond, far fewer workers, etc) but there is much more risk (scourge can easily take out a dropship, making a dropship means you are NOT making a vessel, etc).
also BW ZvZ is an amazing thing even though it's mostly just 3 units, becuase each of those 3 units have an insane amount of depth to them and reward fine control very well. You can spend years practicing control of mutas/lings/scourge to become better at controlling them, whereas perfect control of those units in SC2 can be mastered in about 5 minutes.
although I'd like to point out that it's not JUST about making a cool unit. it's about that unit's relationship with the units that it fights. Take the dragoon and the stalker for example. On paper, the stalker should be way cooler than the dragoon because it it basically the same unit but has blink. However I always find myself much more interested in dragoons than stalkers. This is because the dragoon has much more interesting unit encounters than the stalker. most of the time the stalker just spends it's time in a big death ball attacking other ranged units that are in a death ball, while occasionally it will go do some harass or defend some harass (oh, and you can blink back weakened stalkers COOL YOU CANT DO ANYTHING LIKE THAT WITH OTHER UNITS).
Then when you look at the dragoon, it does a lot of different stuff. In PvP it functions similarly to stalkers, being used mostly in the big army or defending vs reaver harass. However in PvT you have dragoons interacting with spidermines and vultures. most of the early to mid game dragoons are moving around hte map clearing out mines and defending vs vulture or dropship harass. Dragoons usually destroy vultures can need to be careful not to get surrounded by too many as vultures are super fast. dragoons can be micro'd properly to avoid dying to mines. and then in the main battles there's the cool dynamic of dragoons/zeals vs vultures/tanks, where a sort of rock/paper/scissors happens, but then players can overcome that by placing good mines or clearing out mines well, or using zeal bombs/ vessels/ arbitors/ etc. In PvZ it's not as cool as in PvT but good micro is rewarded by not letting dragoons get surrounded by zerglings or by killing lurkers with dragoons and tanking as little damage as possible by focusing down lurkers 1 at a time from the best angle. the most boring battles in BW ZvP are when it's a huge dragoon/templar army vs a huge hydra army, where the only micro comes from storm casting/dodging. and that is pretty much what most battles in SC2 look like.
So maybe if HoTS added something as cool and dynamic as spidermines (or just spidermines straight up) a lot of units that sorta seem stale now would become a lot more fun to play with and watch, but so far nothing blizzard has shown of HoTS looks like they will even come close to that.
sorry to go off on a bit of a rant but I always get pissed off when SC2 fans say that a matchup is so great because more than 3 units per race are used. these units as of now still act and function very similar and for the most part do not have the cool dynamics and excitement of BW, even when the BW matchups for the most part do not have as much unit variety.
On May 17 2012 23:53 Heathen wrote: SC2. Zergs think Zerg for SC2 is weak. So they are either T or P haha. ZERG WEAK!
zerg is also the most different race from BW -> SC2 (in terms of strategies and skill transfers) and also the most boring race in sc2.
Nope. What would make you say that?
while it's true the other races got a lot more boring in SC2 as well, the zerg lost most of the aspects that made them fun to play as in BW. did you even play zerg in BW before? SC2 has no muta micro, no defilers, no lurkers, no scourge. essentially no units benefit from practicing control except for maybe making sure banelings don't kill unimportant targets. controlling a zerg army in sc2 is extremely unsatisfying compared to BW because of unlimited selection. roaches and hydras are really fucking boring. infestors are pretty lame. it's easy to see how pro BW zergs would decide to switch to other races since zerg feels so different anyway (and is very boring).
Zerg is very different in SC2. In BW, Zerg feels weak in the lategame. In ZvT, it felt like trying your best not to die, using defilers and lurkers to stall time. In ZvP, I feel like the matchup depends too heavily on tier 1 hydralisks, whereas P would get to play with units that actually felt powerful like Archons, High Templars and Revears. IMO, Zerg in SC2 has a lot going for it.
For SC2 ZvT: A fun matchup with lots of diversity. SC2 fans' favorite matchup. ZvZ: Kind of weird, but a tons more dynamic than BW ZvZ where you would only see the same 3 combat units in 99% of the games. Every unit but the Broodlord is common in this matchup.
I would argue Protoss is the most boring race in SC2. They feel powerful, but only work well when grouped up, hence the ball effect. Boring to play and watch.
while your analysis of the BW matchups seems a bit dated, I have to repeat that the units in SC2 zerg aren't nearly as fun to play with (or to watch) as in BW. all of the fun units that zerg had were removed and all the new units aren't nearly as fun (and most units that stayed aren't as fun either: zerglings/mutas/hydras). while it's true that I haven't watched that much SC2 in the last year or so, whenever I do most games still seem boring and suffer from the same problems that they did from the start: boring unit interactions, death balls, too hard to make comebacks.
I feel like ZvT gets way too much credit from SC2 fans because it's the only non-mirror matchup that doesn't always have big death balls and "win the first battle -> instantly win game" syndrome, but the general battles just aren't that interesting for the most part (at least compared to BW ZvT). mutas are fucking shitty to watch/play with in sc2 since they can't be micro'd nearly as precisely. while watching marine micro vs banelings is the one saving grace in pretty much all of SC2 micro-wise, I would argue that it's about on par with watching marines split vs lurkers. HOWEVER, lurkers have about 5x more versatility compared to banelings. and then sc2 zvt is missing equivelents to so many little things that make the match-up so great in BW: scourge vs vessels, irradiate, swarm. drops are so much more exciting in BW because they have a much higher risk/reward ratio: drops can do far more damage in BW (harder for zerg to send ground forces to respond, far fewer workers, etc) but there is much more risk (scourge can easily take out a dropship, making a dropship means you are NOT making a vessel, etc).
also BW ZvZ is an amazing thing even though it's mostly just 3 units, becuase each of those 3 units have an insane amount of depth to them and reward fine control very well. You can spend years practicing control of mutas/lings/scourge to become better at controlling them, whereas perfect control of those units in SC2 can be mastered in about 5 minutes.
although I'd like to point out that it's not JUST about making a cool unit. it's about that unit's relationship with the units that it fights. Take the dragoon and the stalker for example. On paper, the stalker should be way cooler than the dragoon because it it basically the same unit but has blink. However I always find myself much more interested in dragoons than stalkers. This is because the dragoon has much more interesting unit encounters than the stalker. most of the time the stalker just spends it's time in a big death ball attacking other ranged units that are in a death ball, while occasionally it will go do some harass or defend some harass (oh, and you can blink back weakened stalkers COOL YOU CANT DO ANYTHING LIKE THAT WITH OTHER UNITS).
Then when you look at the dragoon, it does a lot of different stuff. In PvP it functions similarly to stalkers, being used mostly in the big army or defending vs reaver harass. However in PvT you have dragoons interacting with spidermines and vultures. most of the early to mid game dragoons are moving around hte map clearing out mines and defending vs vulture or dropship harass. Dragoons usually destroy vultures can need to be careful not to get surrounded by too many as vultures are super fast. dragoons can be micro'd properly to avoid dying to mines. and then in the main battles there's the cool dynamic of dragoons/zeals vs vultures/tanks, where a sort of rock/paper/scissors happens, but then players can overcome that by placing good mines or clearing out mines well, or using zeal bombs/ vessels/ arbitors/ etc. In PvZ it's not as cool as in PvT but good micro is rewarded by not letting dragoons get surrounded by zerglings or by killing lurkers with dragoons and tanking as little damage as possible by focusing down lurkers 1 at a time from the best angle. the most boring battles in BW ZvP are when it's a huge dragoon/templar army vs a huge hydra army, where the only micro comes from storm casting/dodging. and that is pretty much what most battles in SC2 look like.
So maybe if HoTS added something as cool and dynamic as spidermines (or just spidermines straight up) a lot of units that sorta seem stale now would become a lot more fun to play with and watch, but so far nothing blizzard has shown of HoTS looks like they will even come close to that.
sorry to go off on a bit of a rant but I always get pissed off when SC2 fans say that a matchup is so great because more than 3 units per race are used. these units as of now still act and function very similar and for the most part do not have the cool dynamics and excitement of BW, even when the BW matchups for the most part do not have as much unit variety.
I feel like you are taking the argument in the wrong direction, and it's probably my fault because I brought up BW.
When you said Zerg is the most boring race in SC2, you were speaking relatively to the other two races in SC2. My objection is that SC2 Protoss is the most boring race, and that is the general consensus in the SC2 community. I brought up BW to show that SC2 Zerg has a different look and feel, that may not appeal to a BW Zergie, but is still a fun race to play.
(Aside: When you were discussing BW ZvZ, I'll have to disagree with you. Sure, the units have lots of micro potential, but the matchup severely lacks strategical depth. The current matchup is 50% micro, 50% luck/build order advantage (I made up the numbers), and a bane to BW. There's not a lot of variety in the matchup and only a few games stand out. It's a very dull matchup to play/watch. It's a damn shame there has been so many ZvZvZvZ groups in recent history.)
On May 17 2012 23:53 Heathen wrote: SC2. Zergs think Zerg for SC2 is weak. So they are either T or P haha. ZERG WEAK!
zerg is also the most different race from BW -> SC2 (in terms of strategies and skill transfers) and also the most boring race in sc2.
most boring race in sc2 ? hahah
Definitely protoss is the worst race to watch in Sc2. Both Terran and Zerg can play agressive strategy and have constant map presensce, not so much as toss
On May 17 2012 23:53 Heathen wrote: SC2. Zergs think Zerg for SC2 is weak. So they are either T or P haha. ZERG WEAK!
zerg is also the most different race from BW -> SC2 (in terms of strategies and skill transfers) and also the most boring race in sc2.
most boring race in sc2 ? hahah
Definitely protoss is the worst race to watch in Sc2. Both Terran and Zerg can play agressive strategy and have constant map presensce, not so much as toss
On May 19 2012 18:28 Talic_Zealot wrote: But JD is listed as both Captain and a Player, while Stork is not. Mistake? I really hope so, Song Byung Goo fighting!
On May 17 2012 23:53 Heathen wrote: SC2. Zergs think Zerg for SC2 is weak. So they are either T or P haha. ZERG WEAK!
zerg is also the most different race from BW -> SC2 (in terms of strategies and skill transfers) and also the most boring race in sc2.
most boring race in sc2 ? hahah
Definitely protoss is the worst race to watch in Sc2. Both Terran and Zerg can play agressive strategy and have constant map presensce, not so much as toss
boring is subjective, jesus people.
No, Protoss definitely makes for the least interesting and most repetitive matchups, at least to watch.
On May 17 2012 23:53 Heathen wrote: SC2. Zergs think Zerg for SC2 is weak. So they are either T or P haha. ZERG WEAK!
zerg is also the most different race from BW -> SC2 (in terms of strategies and skill transfers) and also the most boring race in sc2.
most boring race in sc2 ? hahah
Definitely protoss is the worst race to watch in Sc2. Both Terran and Zerg can play agressive strategy and have constant map presensce, not so much as toss
boring is subjective, jesus people.
No, Protoss definitely makes for the least interesting and most repetitive matchups, at least to watch.
No dammit, "boring is subjective, jesus people" is entirely accurate. Even if a majority thinks Protoss is the most boring to watch (which I'm not entirely convinced is the case, though it wouldnt surprise me), who are you to say that nobody can find Protoss the most interesting ? Subjective etc etc
On May 17 2012 23:53 Heathen wrote: SC2. Zergs think Zerg for SC2 is weak. So they are either T or P haha. ZERG WEAK!
zerg is also the most different race from BW -> SC2 (in terms of strategies and skill transfers) and also the most boring race in sc2.
Nope. What would make you say that?
while it's true the other races got a lot more boring in SC2 as well, the zerg lost most of the aspects that made them fun to play as in BW. did you even play zerg in BW before? SC2 has no muta micro, no defilers, no lurkers, no scourge. essentially no units benefit from practicing control except for maybe making sure banelings don't kill unimportant targets. controlling a zerg army in sc2 is extremely unsatisfying compared to BW because of unlimited selection. roaches and hydras are really fucking boring. infestors are pretty lame. it's easy to see how pro BW zergs would decide to switch to other races since zerg feels so different anyway (and is very boring).
Zerg is very different in SC2. In BW, Zerg feels weak in the lategame. In ZvT, it felt like trying your best not to die, using defilers and lurkers to stall time. In ZvP, I feel like the matchup depends too heavily on tier 1 hydralisks, whereas P would get to play with units that actually felt powerful like Archons, High Templars and Revears. IMO, Zerg in SC2 has a lot going for it.
For SC2 ZvT: A fun matchup with lots of diversity. SC2 fans' favorite matchup. ZvZ: Kind of weird, but a tons more dynamic than BW ZvZ where you would only see the same 3 combat units in 99% of the games. Every unit but the Broodlord is common in this matchup.
I would argue Protoss is the most boring race in SC2. They feel powerful, but only work well when grouped up, hence the ball effect. Boring to play and watch.
while your analysis of the BW matchups seems a bit dated, I have to repeat that the units in SC2 zerg aren't nearly as fun to play with (or to watch) as in BW. all of the fun units that zerg had were removed and all the new units aren't nearly as fun (and most units that stayed aren't as fun either: zerglings/mutas/hydras). while it's true that I haven't watched that much SC2 in the last year or so, whenever I do most games still seem boring and suffer from the same problems that they did from the start: boring unit interactions, death balls, too hard to make comebacks.
I feel like ZvT gets way too much credit from SC2 fans because it's the only non-mirror matchup that doesn't always have big death balls and "win the first battle -> instantly win game" syndrome, but the general battles just aren't that interesting for the most part (at least compared to BW ZvT). mutas are fucking shitty to watch/play with in sc2 since they can't be micro'd nearly as precisely. while watching marine micro vs banelings is the one saving grace in pretty much all of SC2 micro-wise, I would argue that it's about on par with watching marines split vs lurkers. HOWEVER, lurkers have about 5x more versatility compared to banelings. and then sc2 zvt is missing equivelents to so many little things that make the match-up so great in BW: scourge vs vessels, irradiate, swarm. drops are so much more exciting in BW because they have a much higher risk/reward ratio: drops can do far more damage in BW (harder for zerg to send ground forces to respond, far fewer workers, etc) but there is much more risk (scourge can easily take out a dropship, making a dropship means you are NOT making a vessel, etc).
also BW ZvZ is an amazing thing even though it's mostly just 3 units, becuase each of those 3 units have an insane amount of depth to them and reward fine control very well. You can spend years practicing control of mutas/lings/scourge to become better at controlling them, whereas perfect control of those units in SC2 can be mastered in about 5 minutes.
although I'd like to point out that it's not JUST about making a cool unit. it's about that unit's relationship with the units that it fights. Take the dragoon and the stalker for example. On paper, the stalker should be way cooler than the dragoon because it it basically the same unit but has blink. However I always find myself much more interested in dragoons than stalkers. This is because the dragoon has much more interesting unit encounters than the stalker. most of the time the stalker just spends it's time in a big death ball attacking other ranged units that are in a death ball, while occasionally it will go do some harass or defend some harass (oh, and you can blink back weakened stalkers COOL YOU CANT DO ANYTHING LIKE THAT WITH OTHER UNITS).
Then when you look at the dragoon, it does a lot of different stuff. In PvP it functions similarly to stalkers, being used mostly in the big army or defending vs reaver harass. However in PvT you have dragoons interacting with spidermines and vultures. most of the early to mid game dragoons are moving around hte map clearing out mines and defending vs vulture or dropship harass. Dragoons usually destroy vultures can need to be careful not to get surrounded by too many as vultures are super fast. dragoons can be micro'd properly to avoid dying to mines. and then in the main battles there's the cool dynamic of dragoons/zeals vs vultures/tanks, where a sort of rock/paper/scissors happens, but then players can overcome that by placing good mines or clearing out mines well, or using zeal bombs/ vessels/ arbitors/ etc. In PvZ it's not as cool as in PvT but good micro is rewarded by not letting dragoons get surrounded by zerglings or by killing lurkers with dragoons and tanking as little damage as possible by focusing down lurkers 1 at a time from the best angle. the most boring battles in BW ZvP are when it's a huge dragoon/templar army vs a huge hydra army, where the only micro comes from storm casting/dodging. and that is pretty much what most battles in SC2 look like.
So maybe if HoTS added something as cool and dynamic as spidermines (or just spidermines straight up) a lot of units that sorta seem stale now would become a lot more fun to play with and watch, but so far nothing blizzard has shown of HoTS looks like they will even come close to that.
sorry to go off on a bit of a rant but I always get pissed off when SC2 fans say that a matchup is so great because more than 3 units per race are used. these units as of now still act and function very similar and for the most part do not have the cool dynamics and excitement of BW, even when the BW matchups for the most part do not have as much unit variety.
Well at least you were mature about it instead of bashing one side or another like some people do. Because of that, I felt like reading the whole thing You are a prime example of how to argue for a game when you may be more of a fan to BW than SC2.
However, I must say, at least imo, in HoTS, watching pro matches will be a lot more entertaining than WoL. While the Protoss may still have the boring (and mostly amove) collo, even they are getting some nice cool new things. I think the oracle will be the best on the toss side to see what pros can do with it. it has nice abilities (disables defensive buildings, blocks minerals, disables you from making a unit for some time). As long if Terran gets to keep the Warhound, at least to me, terrans will already be a lot more interesting. I never thought the Thor should be massable and its just not very interesting. The Swarm Host has huge potential. Right now I do not know if it will be more entertaining than the Lurker, only time will tell.
While I don't like to compare BW to SC2 because different games are different, I do agree Terrans should get spider mines back. Will make for far, far more interesting matches. And Blizzard is slowly taking away the "powerful ways to end games early" crap, like buffing the Queen to help deal with bunker junk and pylon blocking the ramp.
To me, tvz in SC2 is interesting to watch. pvz isn't too bad, just hate how like the only safe thing to do vs zerg is FFE.
Right now, mine and I am sure others biggest complaints with SC2 is Blizz over-nerfing stuff.
EPT
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