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On May 08 2012 08:59 DreamChaser wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 07:12 densha wrote:On May 08 2012 06:46 Xiphos wrote:On May 08 2012 06:03 vOdToasT wrote:On May 08 2012 05:40 SarcasmMonster wrote:You can get into masters making marines, marauders, and medivacs. That's it - and many games medivacs will be optional. You can actually make it into masters opening with a 6-pool for all your games. Someone has done it in the past with proof on TL. It's not that hard to make masters if you have enough skill. It's all about skill and pracrtice. Of course, if you want to compete at the highest level, you'll need to diversify your strategies. I'm a bit confused that you think Bio is the only composition. Hellions, siege tanks, vikings, banshees are all standard units, and sometimes even Thors and Battlecruisers. Unless you are getting your knowledge from the early in SC2's lifetime before the metagame evolved beyond bio. Honestly, the biggest disappointment is Terran. Protoss too, man. In Brood War, I was a Protoss user (switched to Zerg after the relase of SC2, was inspired by Jaedong), but when I started playing StarCraft 2 I just couldn't play Protoss anymore. They really fucked that race up. All of their units are fucking boring, and I just felt fucking lame winning as Protoss in SC2. Winning wasn't satisfying at all. So I switched to Zerg in SC2. Eww, Zerg is the worst race designed in SC2 imo. Zergs have all those gimmicks like Fungal Growth, trying to pass as a poor man's Plague and Ensnare. Them adding in Queens just doesn't corresponds to the lore. The level of hierechy for Zerg is the Queen of Blade > The Cerebrate > Overlord. By that logic, the gameplay have introduced a whole bunch of Kerrigans running around. They barely explained to us what happened to Lurkers/ Scourges and all those missing units. Its like they want the fans to completely forget about the mystique of the old. Even as a huge fan of SC2, I have to admit there is no doubt that Blizz completely messed up the lore and destroyed the "feeling" that SC1 and BW had. They practically destroyed Raynor's character and put into place a huge, completely dumb retcon for a major Zerg character. I guess ultimately it felt too much like a "Blizzard" storyline, if that makes sense. It was too much like WoW or WCIII and not enough like the gritty, dirty SC of old. I don't feel that the lore is important for the competitive side of the games, though, and I understand that they wanted SC2 to be a new game and not the same as BW (for better or worse). Even as a 14 year old who just put cheats on every story mission even i somewhat knew the story line. Blizzard really fucked the story line if there was anything to be known it was the Kerrigan was wanted dead by EVERYONE especially Raynor. Now hes just like "I love you dood" Going off topic but this can not be ignored!
This summarises the major flaws quite well.
There is no post BW - BW4LYFE! But post BW-only ProLeague, I'll give the mixed format a chance and retain the hope that SC2 fans will be won over by the undeniable charms of BW. Going from the recent quality of games in the OSL though, that may not be too likely 
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On May 08 2012 06:38 Ero-Sennin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 02:37 nttea wrote:On May 08 2012 00:59 Ero-Sennin wrote:
I don't get it. You're admitting you were bad and you're trying to talk about perceived deepness in the game? That's like some kid who sucked at tee ball trying to explain that professional baseball really isn't all that deep.
Yes, speed is important, but it's not the main thing at your level, and I'm pretty sure it isn't the main reason why you'd lose your ZvT unless your APM was like 10.
Zerg was my offrace, I could maybe play it at a 150-160 average? I could still beat people at your level and a little higher with my shitty zerg (and it was shitty) because I knew what they were showing me and I knew what I had to do to win. well i was responding to someone making claims about the deepness of starcraft2 and i just wanted to use similar arguments... and a little higher than my level of zerg would be what... c+/b-? who the fuck calls that shitty. + Show Spoiler +Not to get the thread off topic, but yes, C+/B- is not something to brag about, especially if it's 200-200 C+ or something absurdly bad. That and the fact that ranks on iccup now don't mean as much because a lot of the top players have moved on/quit means you get even more crappy people hitting higher than they should. And yes, there are shitty people who hit A-. I'm not going to call them out, but you have to look at everything in context. And you, thinking you knew something about the game when you don't is quite sad.
Also, to a previous poster who was trying to compare fish/iccup ranks, maybe that's accurate, maybe not. Not sure, I never played fish. I played NeoGamei, that was a long time ago, that and WGTour/PGTour/Iccup My post BW plans occurred a couple years ago when I got SC2 in October 2010. Been playing iccup off and on since then but not for a couple months now.
the way i remembered it, not even all known foreigners reached a- on iccup that easily. Maybe i remember it wrong or iccup used to be very different but nobody but the very very top players ever considered b- a bad rank... for any casual player that was really good. Also on the topic of me knowing the games i still feel i know enough to claim that there is no reason to believe bw is more complex or deeper than sc2, sure the competition is more fierce but that isn't at all the same thing.
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sc2 is a really average game , i doubt anything will come close to brood war ever again
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Sc2 is far above avarage. Maybe AoE2 can beat it other than BW.
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On May 08 2012 18:12 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
sc2 is a really average game , i doubt anything will come close to brood war ever again
Nah that is totally wrong. SC2 is an amazing game (, if you didnt play BW).
But in comparison by knowing BW, it just sucks :/ That is the main problem for the most remaining BW players that you always think how amazing BW was, so you cannot really enjoy SC2. At least that is my problem, since I do watch SC2 games from time to time, but I do not want to play it.
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On May 08 2012 21:11 chrisolo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 18:12 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
sc2 is a really average game , i doubt anything will come close to brood war ever again SC2 is an amazing game (, if you didnt play BW)
this is exactly the problem
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On May 08 2012 21:11 chrisolo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 18:12 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
sc2 is a really average game , i doubt anything will come close to brood war ever again Nah that is totally wrong. SC2 is an amazing game (, if you didnt play BW). But in comparison by knowing BW, it just sucks :/ That is the main problem for the most remaining BW players that you always think how amazing BW was, so you cannot really enjoy SC2. At least that is my problem, since I do watch SC2 games from time to time, but I do not want to play it.
Might I ask what makes SC2 an amazing game?
It really doesn't try to push any boundries or has any feature that makes it "amazing".
War3 was unique and had a completely new element introduced (hero/loot system) that made it stand out (despite its balance issues). BW has impeccable balance and so many unique game elements that make it the de facto greatest RTS. SC2 just feels like DOW with better balance to me.
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2855 Posts
On May 08 2012 21:01 Darksoldierr wrote:
Sc2 is far above avarage. Maybe AoE2 can beat it other than BW.
AoM and RA2 were quite enjoyable as well. For me it goes BW > AoM > SC2 > AoE2 > RA 2 > WC3 > BattleRealms (fuck yeah) from all the RTSes I enjoy and consider above average. Still, BW is >>>>>>>>>>>>> everything else in terms of professional scene, and SC2 is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the others except maybe WC3.
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I never played AoM myself, but other than that i agree, personally i would put RA2 ahead of WC3 only becouse of the nostalkgia attached to it, WC3 is a better game and probably played lot more with it than red alert
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On May 08 2012 11:49 SarcasmMonster wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 11:34 sCCrooked wrote:On May 08 2012 11:11 SarcasmMonster wrote:
No. Read what the conversation was about.
I was talking about masters league in SC2 which is the top 5% of anyone who has ever played ladder, ie. someone like myself. And no, I am not a progamer. The comparision I'm making is that it's easy to make the top 5% of anyone who has played BW using a simple strategy, as long as you can execute it well.
I seriously doubt that 1 out of every 20 people who has played BW is considered a progamer. I did read what it was about and I'm telling you again, you're VERY wrong. I know what masters league is in sc2. I'm low masters. Most everyone I know who was even D+ in iccup rankings made masters and anyone past that is high masters or GM. Population of iccup is around 1000-2000 players with only about 400-600 being online at any one time. Population of fish is around 100,000-200,000 players with 30,000-80,000 being online at any one time. Population of brain clan is around 30,000 players (used to be a LOT more but brain clan kind of fell off after it got hacked and it took them months to bring it back online). Add on the Garena population and the progamer population (Garena has 1000-2000 and there's at least a few thousand licensed progamers). Add all this up and you have close to or a little over a quarter of a million SC players still active. Since you specified amateurs/casual/semi-casual players, let's exclude the few thousand progamers. Still leaves a quarter of a million people. 5% of a quarter of a million is about 12,500 players. If you took the top 12,500 players of the entire amateur scene, you're looking at people who score between 950-1100 on the fish battle ranking system. As anyone with experience will tell you, that's about C+/B-/B rank. Less the C+, more the B-/B. This is all considering the rankings are meaning less and less with all the good players moving/retiring/leaving the scene which means worse players can score higher because there's nobody better to stomp them back down. So.... no you won't reach that high with just being a 1 trick pony for each match-up. Your only counting players on special private platforms: iccup and fish. These are players who went out of their way, away from the path of least resistence, to seek higher competition. You are already limiting your sample to the higher percentiles when you do this. The vast majority of noobs in BW's history has only ever played on B.net, these are your casual gamers. They are equivalent to the guys in Bronze, Silver, Gold league in SC2. The guys who play just for fun for a few hours, never improves too much on skill, and don't care about rank or finding competitve opponents who can whoop their ass and teach them a lesson.
Id say that ICCup is about 5000-7000 people
the amount of people still playing BW is around 500 000 imo.
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Korea (South)1306 Posts
On May 08 2012 22:54 Sinedd wrote:
Id say that ICCup is about 5000-7000 people
the amount of people still playing BW is around 500 000 imo.
I was trying to count the really active players who actively ladder. My original post actually took everyone into account but then I realized the ums-only people or the players who necer ladder weren't really the kinds of players we were referring to. I agree there' about half a million actual players but just under or around half of the subscribe to the 1v1 ladder style we were discussing.
Fish actually has around 350,000-460,000 players alone, brain with 30,000 or so, and iccup yeah about 4,000-5,000. He was referring to a percentage of players in sc2 who really ladder pretty regularly so I was trying to pick out the numbers in the BW scene who act similarly.
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On May 08 2012 21:43 Garmer wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 21:11 chrisolo wrote:On May 08 2012 18:12 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
sc2 is a really average game , i doubt anything will come close to brood war ever again SC2 is an amazing game (, if you didnt play BW) this is exactly the problem
Yeah. Maybe if I met SC2 first, I would've liked it more, but I guess we were just not meant to be.
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lets just stick to BW
dont leave it right after the professional scene fades away..
dont be a deserter
if you truly love the game. you will always play it. As long as there is going to be 1 player at ICCup or Fish or whatever other server
Im definitely going to play still  and watch foreign BW
and Im gonna watch SC2 cause I just love Starcaft and Esports in general..
and I'll ofc try new SC2, maybe it will be fun who knows..
go go go !
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On May 08 2012 21:43 Garmer wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 21:11 chrisolo wrote:On May 08 2012 18:12 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
sc2 is a really average game , i doubt anything will come close to brood war ever again SC2 is an amazing game (, if you didnt play BW) this is exactly the problem
This made me sad
Why the best thing in life has to go?
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On May 09 2012 01:13 HighTemper wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 21:43 Garmer wrote:On May 08 2012 21:11 chrisolo wrote:On May 08 2012 18:12 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
sc2 is a really average game , i doubt anything will come close to brood war ever again SC2 is an amazing game (, if you didnt play BW) this is exactly the problem This made me sad Why the best thing in life has to go?
sad life, eh??
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I really believe the stars aligned for BW. To me it is the single greatest video game in the history of gaming.The game has literally been pushed to it's absolute limits and still there's more to discover. Just thinking about BloodBath and Big Game Hunters makes me so nostalgic.
I'll never quit playing as long as the servers are still running
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SC2 just doesnt feel as deep, interesting, funny, skill dependent, intense and rewarding of hard practicing as broodwar
Bashing sc2, plz dont look:
+ Show Spoiler +
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On May 08 2012 22:54 Sinedd wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 11:49 SarcasmMonster wrote:On May 08 2012 11:34 sCCrooked wrote:On May 08 2012 11:11 SarcasmMonster wrote:
No. Read what the conversation was about.
I was talking about masters league in SC2 which is the top 5% of anyone who has ever played ladder, ie. someone like myself. And no, I am not a progamer. The comparision I'm making is that it's easy to make the top 5% of anyone who has played BW using a simple strategy, as long as you can execute it well.
I seriously doubt that 1 out of every 20 people who has played BW is considered a progamer. I did read what it was about and I'm telling you again, you're VERY wrong. I know what masters league is in sc2. I'm low masters. Most everyone I know who was even D+ in iccup rankings made masters and anyone past that is high masters or GM. Population of iccup is around 1000-2000 players with only about 400-600 being online at any one time. Population of fish is around 100,000-200,000 players with 30,000-80,000 being online at any one time. Population of brain clan is around 30,000 players (used to be a LOT more but brain clan kind of fell off after it got hacked and it took them months to bring it back online). Add on the Garena population and the progamer population (Garena has 1000-2000 and there's at least a few thousand licensed progamers). Add all this up and you have close to or a little over a quarter of a million SC players still active. Since you specified amateurs/casual/semi-casual players, let's exclude the few thousand progamers. Still leaves a quarter of a million people. 5% of a quarter of a million is about 12,500 players. If you took the top 12,500 players of the entire amateur scene, you're looking at people who score between 950-1100 on the fish battle ranking system. As anyone with experience will tell you, that's about C+/B-/B rank. Less the C+, more the B-/B. This is all considering the rankings are meaning less and less with all the good players moving/retiring/leaving the scene which means worse players can score higher because there's nobody better to stomp them back down. So.... no you won't reach that high with just being a 1 trick pony for each match-up. Your only counting players on special private platforms: iccup and fish. These are players who went out of their way, away from the path of least resistence, to seek higher competition. You are already limiting your sample to the higher percentiles when you do this. The vast majority of noobs in BW's history has only ever played on B.net, these are your casual gamers. They are equivalent to the guys in Bronze, Silver, Gold league in SC2. The guys who play just for fun for a few hours, never improves too much on skill, and don't care about rank or finding competitve opponents who can whoop their ass and teach them a lesson. Id say that ICCup is about 5000-7000 people the amount of people still playing BW is around 500 000 imo.
I'm very impressed. How did you get the result of 500 K players of BW?
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It's funny, when I restarted my computer I installed BW but didn't install Starcraft 2, and with recent events it seems I'll be playing BW much more than than Sc2. So I don't have post-BW plans, I have current-BW plans and future BW plans.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/2617/meme1g.png)
