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On March 30 2012 00:56 Arceus wrote:
I find it funny that ppl say $25 for 1.5 hours is dirt cheap but are reluctant to pay the same bucks for one season of GSL/MLG/etc
I'm not even sure why you don't understand how un-fucking-related the two are. Different products for different people.
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I can't help but wonder what would happen to any actual broodwar player getting caught getting lessons from savior.
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On March 30 2012 01:13 supernovamaniac wrote:
At this point in time, translating articles like these only bring out the "ugly" of the community. It's better if articles about savior aren't translated at all (not saying that you shouldn't translate articles at all).
I still find it funny that people are talking about "oh, he made one wrong choice in life" "psh that wasn't a big deal, it's in the past" etc. Then let me ask you a question: Did you truly enjoy MyStarleague that they did instead of regular OSL season last year? Did you enjoy the long off-season of Proleague with speculations that it might not happen again (same goes for OSL)? Did you truly enjoy the news of MBC Game being shut down? If you said No to one of these questions, then I don't know what the fuck's wrong with you. Maybe you just didn't know how huge the impact of match fixing was, or you're just trying to runaway from the truth.
MyStarleague happened because OSL couldn't get any sponsors after Bacchus. Weird, huh? Last time OSL couldn't find sponsors was Daum Starleague and they just went ahead with the league without any sponsors. JinAir OSL sponsorship was announced sometime into the league, not before the group selection. And this upcoming OSL is in the same situation: still no sponsorship. When did the most prestigious league in BroodWar have hard time getting sponsorship in OSL, especially after the amazing finals like the reverse sweep in Korean Air season 1 and legend of the fall in Jin Air?
I don't even need to discuss MBCGame because I posted few pictures from MBCGame that directly proves that some "incidents" had an effect on closure of the station.
I'm just going to leave questions here. It is okay if you follow someone who's good at playing this game. But if you're going to ignore the facts, you might as well ignore the Korean BroodWar scene along with it.
EDIT: One last question: If this person did have huge impact on BW scene, is it still justifiable for him to make money off from something that he helped destroy?
One of the main criticisms people have about the justice systems in Canada and America is that because having a criminal record is so detrimental, there isn't really a good system in place for reintegrating criminals into productive members of society, which is the "goal" of the justice system. This isn't some anime where Savior is gonna go live on a farm for the rest of his life regretting his sins. The matchfixing scandal and Savior coaching now are two very different things. The matchfixing scandal is undeniably bad. Savior trying to earn an honest living after his crimes is not. Does Savior have to commit crimes for the rest of his life to get by because people still hold a grudge against him? Don't let him compete: ok. Criticise him for living his life? This is the same problem scholars argue about in Law studies. It's better to reintegrate people into society than to punish them forever.
I think all of your questions are ludicrous. If you can't forgive him, that's your personal decision, but if other people can, let them. I love Brood War a lot, but I'm not going to be pig headed looking for scapegoats.
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On March 30 2012 01:05 Ilikestarcraft wrote:
I don't think his intention to make money is wrong because that is one of the reasons most people coach in the first place. Savior isn't really taking advantage of anyone. Its people's money and they can do what they want with it. If people are willing to offer money and are interested in being coached then why not. I personally think this is a better way than living off donations from his fans since hes actually being paid in exchange for something. Don't think anyone really has a legit reason to hate on what hes doing.
Yeah, I agree with this. Savior has been playing BW since his teens right? Outside of pro-gaming what is he actually qualified to do, does he have any type of education at all? The guy has got to be able to support himself somehow, and what he is offering is something of relatively high value. I don't think this situation hurts anyone or does any more damage to BW/esports. So honestly, I say let the guy be.
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On March 30 2012 01:13 supernovamaniac wrote:
At this point in time, translating articles like these only bring out the "ugly" of the community. It's better if articles about savior aren't translated at all (not saying that you shouldn't translate articles at all).
I still find it funny that people are talking about "oh, he made one wrong choice in life" "psh that wasn't a big deal, it's in the past" etc. Then let me ask you a question: Did you truly enjoy MyStarleague that they did instead of regular OSL season last year? Did you enjoy the long off-season of Proleague with speculations that it might not happen again (same goes for OSL)? Did you truly enjoy the news of MBC Game being shut down? If you said No to one of these questions, then I don't know what the fuck's wrong with you. Maybe you just didn't know how huge the impact of match fixing was, or you're just trying to runaway from the truth.
MyStarleague happened because OSL couldn't get any sponsors after Bacchus. Weird, huh? Last time OSL couldn't find sponsors was Daum Starleague and they just went ahead with the league without any sponsors. JinAir OSL sponsorship was announced sometime into the league, not before the group selection. And this upcoming OSL is in the same situation: still no sponsorship. When did the most prestigious league in BroodWar have hard time getting sponsorship in OSL, especially after the amazing finals like the reverse sweep in Korean Air season 1 and legend of the fall in Jin Air?
I don't even need to discuss MBCGame because I posted few pictures from MBCGame that directly proves that some "incidents" had an effect on closure of the station.
I'm just going to leave questions here. It is okay if you follow someone who's good at playing this game. But if you're going to ignore the facts, you might as well ignore the Korean BroodWar scene along with it.
EDIT: One last question: If this person did have huge impact on BW scene, is it still justifiable for him to make money off from something that he helped destroy?
I'm sure the people that will be spending money on this know full well the situation and since it's their money theres nothing wrong with them spending however they want.
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I'm going to be harsh on this
If he was really remorseful, he wouldn't try and make money using his fans
He betrayed his fans and BW fans, and he's still using his reputation and the "popularity" of BW to make money.
He made money using other players, he made money off of BW. Now he's still doing it.
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On March 30 2012 01:13 supernovamaniac wrote:
At this point in time, translating articles like these only bring out the "ugly" of the community. It's better if articles about savior aren't translated at all (not saying that you shouldn't translate articles at all).
I still find it funny that people are talking about "oh, he made one wrong choice in life" "psh that wasn't a big deal, it's in the past" etc. Then let me ask you a question: Did you truly enjoy MyStarleague that they did instead of regular OSL season last year? Did you enjoy the long off-season of Proleague with speculations that it might not happen again (same goes for OSL)? Did you truly enjoy the news of MBC Game being shut down? If you said No to one of these questions, then I don't know what the fuck's wrong with you. Maybe you just didn't know how huge the impact of match fixing was, or you're just trying to runaway from the truth.
MyStarleague happened because OSL couldn't get any sponsors after Bacchus. Weird, huh? Last time OSL couldn't find sponsors was Daum Starleague and they just went ahead with the league without any sponsors. JinAir OSL sponsorship was announced sometime into the league, not before the group selection. And this upcoming OSL is in the same situation: still no sponsorship. When did the most prestigious league in BroodWar have hard time getting sponsorship in OSL, especially after the amazing finals like the reverse sweep in Korean Air season 1 and legend of the fall in Jin Air?
I don't even need to discuss MBCGame because I posted few pictures from MBCGame that directly proves that some "incidents" had an effect on closure of the station.
I'm just going to leave questions here. It is okay if you follow someone who's good at playing this game. But if you're going to ignore the facts, you might as well ignore the Korean BroodWar scene along with it.
EDIT: One last question: If this person did have huge impact on BW scene, is it still justifiable for him to make money off from something that he helped destroy?
SC2 Fans: "Omg a good BW player who isn't playing BW? We should forgive him so he can play SC2! Causing the downfall of the scene? Who cares, you guys just can't get over it."
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On March 30 2012 01:20 Chef wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 01:13 supernovamaniac wrote:
At this point in time, translating articles like these only bring out the "ugly" of the community. It's better if articles about savior aren't translated at all (not saying that you shouldn't translate articles at all).
I still find it funny that people are talking about "oh, he made one wrong choice in life" "psh that wasn't a big deal, it's in the past" etc. Then let me ask you a question: Did you truly enjoy MyStarleague that they did instead of regular OSL season last year? Did you enjoy the long off-season of Proleague with speculations that it might not happen again (same goes for OSL)? Did you truly enjoy the news of MBC Game being shut down? If you said No to one of these questions, then I don't know what the fuck's wrong with you. Maybe you just didn't know how huge the impact of match fixing was, or you're just trying to runaway from the truth.
MyStarleague happened because OSL couldn't get any sponsors after Bacchus. Weird, huh? Last time OSL couldn't find sponsors was Daum Starleague and they just went ahead with the league without any sponsors. JinAir OSL sponsorship was announced sometime into the league, not before the group selection. And this upcoming OSL is in the same situation: still no sponsorship. When did the most prestigious league in BroodWar have hard time getting sponsorship in OSL, especially after the amazing finals like the reverse sweep in Korean Air season 1 and legend of the fall in Jin Air?
I don't even need to discuss MBCGame because I posted few pictures from MBCGame that directly proves that some "incidents" had an effect on closure of the station.
I'm just going to leave questions here. It is okay if you follow someone who's good at playing this game. But if you're going to ignore the facts, you might as well ignore the Korean BroodWar scene along with it.
EDIT: One last question: If this person did have huge impact on BW scene, is it still justifiable for him to make money off from something that he helped destroy? One of the main criticisms people have about the justice systems in Canada and America is that because having a criminal record is so detrimental, there isn't really a good system in place for reintegrating criminals into productive members of society, which is the "goal" of the justice system. This isn't some anime where Savior is gonna go live on a farm for the rest of his life regretting his sins. The matchfixing scandal and Savior coaching now are two very different things. The matchfixing scandal is undeniably bad. Savior trying to earn an honest living after his crimes is not. Does Savior have to commit crimes for the rest of his life to get by because people still hold a grudge against him? Don't let him compete: ok. Criticise him for living his life? This is the same problem scholars argue about in Law studies. It's better to reintegrate people into society than to punish them forever. I think all of your questions are ludicrous. If you can't forgive him, that's your personal decision, but if other people can, let them. I love Brood War a lot, but I'm not going to be pig headed looking for scapegoats.
I literally choked at this point.
Which game are we talking about here?
Do you remember who was the most arrogant match fixer who claimed to be progamer even during the match fixing trials? Do you remember who stated in his stream that he will stop playing BW in order to start studying and go study abroad?
I don't know, maybe I still have grudge against him because OSL and PL sponsorship haven't been working out, the day that I watched KT vs CJ live was the FINAL DAY of proleague casting at MBC Game (with full attendance), and teams are disbanding and everyone involved in the scene is getting less money day by day. And what does he do? Start trying to make more money off from BW.
Maybe if it was someone else (cough luxury) who haven't been arrogant and did not state that he was going to stop streaming due to education, then I would have less criticisms.
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On March 30 2012 01:26 Gamegene wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 01:13 supernovamaniac wrote:
At this point in time, translating articles like these only bring out the "ugly" of the community. It's better if articles about savior aren't translated at all (not saying that you shouldn't translate articles at all).
I still find it funny that people are talking about "oh, he made one wrong choice in life" "psh that wasn't a big deal, it's in the past" etc. Then let me ask you a question: Did you truly enjoy MyStarleague that they did instead of regular OSL season last year? Did you enjoy the long off-season of Proleague with speculations that it might not happen again (same goes for OSL)? Did you truly enjoy the news of MBC Game being shut down? If you said No to one of these questions, then I don't know what the fuck's wrong with you. Maybe you just didn't know how huge the impact of match fixing was, or you're just trying to runaway from the truth.
MyStarleague happened because OSL couldn't get any sponsors after Bacchus. Weird, huh? Last time OSL couldn't find sponsors was Daum Starleague and they just went ahead with the league without any sponsors. JinAir OSL sponsorship was announced sometime into the league, not before the group selection. And this upcoming OSL is in the same situation: still no sponsorship. When did the most prestigious league in BroodWar have hard time getting sponsorship in OSL, especially after the amazing finals like the reverse sweep in Korean Air season 1 and legend of the fall in Jin Air?
I don't even need to discuss MBCGame because I posted few pictures from MBCGame that directly proves that some "incidents" had an effect on closure of the station.
I'm just going to leave questions here. It is okay if you follow someone who's good at playing this game. But if you're going to ignore the facts, you might as well ignore the Korean BroodWar scene along with it.
EDIT: One last question: If this person did have huge impact on BW scene, is it still justifiable for him to make money off from something that he helped destroy? SC2 Fans: "Omg a good BW player who isn't playing BW? We should forgive him so he can play SC2! Causing the downfall of the scene? Who cares, you guys just can't get over it."
Thats entirely different problem completely not connected to the issue of this topic.
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Japan11286 Posts
Disregarding his past actions, I think this is great. I mean, learning from the Bonjwa?!?! I would die in the first minute of the lesson.
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On March 30 2012 01:20 TheToast wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 01:05 Ilikestarcraft wrote:
I don't think his intention to make money is wrong because that is one of the reasons most people coach in the first place. Savior isn't really taking advantage of anyone. Its people's money and they can do what they want with it. If people are willing to offer money and are interested in being coached then why not. I personally think this is a better way than living off donations from his fans since hes actually being paid in exchange for something. Don't think anyone really has a legit reason to hate on what hes doing. Yeah, I agree with this. Savior has been playing BW since his teens right? Outside of pro-gaming what is he actually qualified to do, does he have any type of education at all? The guy has got to be able to support himself somehow, and what he is offering is something of relatively high value. I don't think this situation hurts anyone or does any more damage to BW/esports. So honestly, I say let the guy be.
I think the reason that is getting everyone all so work up is because Savior isn't just another no name player . Lots of time and money has been spent on promoting this guy to create the fan base for starcraft broodwar and now since he created the loophole for outside third party meddle in to what is suppose to be a "clean" sport . Not only he tainted the scene and destroyed every potential good players that were playing in the scene . He may also inadvertently killed the scene in a way because Savior/Hwasin/Upmagic do pull a lot of crowds and fans .
Because of that people still are hating him and it's understandable although can we totally blame savior for this ? I don't know if what he did was right or wrong if you were in his position . I think it's the first time kespa ever had to dealt with this kind of situation. If you ask me hearing one side of the story isn't enough and I recall savior taking to the reporter and confessing about the whole story of the match fixing and yet that article didn't get turn up and since than he kept his silence .
Maybe I will reach the same conclusion if I was a commentator like nal_ra and kingdom and call him a betrayer and will hate him forever for what he has done.
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Cant we just call him Savior again? Its not like anyone doesn't know by now.
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On March 30 2012 01:20 TheToast wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 01:05 Ilikestarcraft wrote:
I don't think his intention to make money is wrong because that is one of the reasons most people coach in the first place. Savior isn't really taking advantage of anyone. Its people's money and they can do what they want with it. If people are willing to offer money and are interested in being coached then why not. I personally think this is a better way than living off donations from his fans since hes actually being paid in exchange for something. Don't think anyone really has a legit reason to hate on what hes doing. Yeah, I agree with this. Savior has been playing BW since his teens right? Outside of pro-gaming what is he actually qualified to do, does he have any type of education at all? The guy has got to be able to support himself somehow, and what he is offering is something of relatively high value. I don't think this situation hurts anyone or does any more damage to BW/esports. So honestly, I say let the guy be.
It doesen't. And I don't really care what Savior does now. But what gives him the right to use BW to make money. The excuse "this is all I know what to do" is disgusting. What about guys like go.go that can barely take care of themselves (Oldboy) How is that fair to them, the people he dragged into this mess. They have 0 skills as well. He's just lucky he had such a successful career or this wouldn't even work.
He should just do his military service, people will forget about him, and he should just go to school and make a proper future for himself. Clinging on to BW after what he's done just b/c "its all I know" is crazy. Nothing wrong with streaming, but Im getting the impression he's actually using his BW fame and career to sustain himself completely.
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Whatever, it's like Pete Rose giving baseball lessons. I think he's despicable and should leave the entirety of Broodwar alone like the disgrace he is, but I can't knowingly support forcing him to stop anything but direct involvement with the BW pro scene.
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On March 29 2012 23:06 GTR wrote:
30k won is quite a lot (compared to the other afreeca bjs)
players like eagle/anytime do it for 10-15k won p/hr iirc.
that being said, you are learning from probably the greatest strategic zerg ever to play bw.
welp at least it's cheaper than idra.
It's 30k for 1.5 hrs, so just 20k/hr.
I'm really surprised that he got a sponsor. Why would he be sponsored after he was banned from progaming? Even if what he had done wasn't seen as hugely wrong, he won't be able to play in tournaments.
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On March 30 2012 01:33 cLicK wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 01:20 TheToast wrote:On March 30 2012 01:05 Ilikestarcraft wrote:
I don't think his intention to make money is wrong because that is one of the reasons most people coach in the first place. Savior isn't really taking advantage of anyone. Its people's money and they can do what they want with it. If people are willing to offer money and are interested in being coached then why not. I personally think this is a better way than living off donations from his fans since hes actually being paid in exchange for something. Don't think anyone really has a legit reason to hate on what hes doing. Yeah, I agree with this. Savior has been playing BW since his teens right? Outside of pro-gaming what is he actually qualified to do, does he have any type of education at all? The guy has got to be able to support himself somehow, and what he is offering is something of relatively high value. I don't think this situation hurts anyone or does any more damage to BW/esports. So honestly, I say let the guy be. It doesen't. And I don't really care what Savior does now. But what gives him the right to use BW to make money. The excuse "this is all I know what to do" is disgusting. What about guys like go.go that can barely take care of themselves (Oldboy) How is that fair to them, the people he dragged into this mess. They have 0 skills as well. He's just lucky he had such a successful career or this wouldn't even work. He should just do his military service, people will forget about him, and he should just go to school and make a proper future for himself. Clinging on to BW after what he's done just b/c "its all I know" is crazy. Nothing wrong with streaming, but Im getting the impression he's actually using his BW fame and career to sustain himself completely.
To be quite honest, if he comes back from the military and becomes a successful businessmen, it will be the better future for everyone: For savior himself for obvious reasons, and for eSports because it shows to the society that even the "spoiled kids" can become successful in life.
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On March 30 2012 01:31 sheaRZerg wrote:
Cant we just call him Savior again? Its not like anyone doesn't know by now.
No way, MatchFixingDevilSpawnSaviorTheTerrible has such a nice ring to it. And there's no thread bias whatsoever if you call him that in your OP either.
MFDSSTT pretty much ruined BW for a lot of people. This includes honest pro-gamers, as now the suggestion or thought of match-fixing exists and may permeate throughout the leagues.
But I don't think forbidding him from ever teaching a student how to play Brood War is a punishment that fits the crime. He already paid for his crimes, and continues to by not being allowed to play as a pro anymore. But he's still an amazing player, and anyone would be lucky to learn from him. Just because he was a shitty person doesn't mean he's talentless at the game.
Savior the player = amazing
Savior the person = MFDSSTT
There's a difference, and it's not like you'll be learning how to fix matches in his tutoring sessions >.>
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On March 29 2012 23:25 white_horse wrote:
Pay to join his fanclub, pay to follow him, pay to get lessons from him: basically only the nutty and hardcore fans who don't really care about anything else remain. you can't really get any more pathetic than that
Sadly, i think you are right.
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On March 30 2012 01:39 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
There's a difference, and it's not like you'll be learning how to fix matches in his tutoring sessions >.>
Well, it's not exactly hard to do that  .
If you were trying to learn how to match fix AND get away with it, you're still going to the wrong person.
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On March 29 2012 23:25 white_horse wrote:
Pay to join his fanclub, pay to follow him, pay to get lessons from him: basically only the nutty and hardcore fans who don't really care about anything else remain. you can't really get any more pathetic than that
This. Pathetic.
He just needs to give up public starcraft already. All this shit he does just shows how he has no remorse for what he did. Like ya ok, you were a progamer your whole life so you don't really have other life skills but this isn't how you should make a living. Play on a smurf privately if you still enjoy the game but leave starcraft alone, you've done enough.
Happens in every savior thread, but still amazes me how ignorant some people are and therefore so forgiving. Some even going so far as to being offended or confused that people haven't forgiven him yet.
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On March 30 2012 01:35 supernovamaniac wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 01:33 cLicK wrote:On March 30 2012 01:20 TheToast wrote:On March 30 2012 01:05 Ilikestarcraft wrote:
I don't think his intention to make money is wrong because that is one of the reasons most people coach in the first place. Savior isn't really taking advantage of anyone. Its people's money and they can do what they want with it. If people are willing to offer money and are interested in being coached then why not. I personally think this is a better way than living off donations from his fans since hes actually being paid in exchange for something. Don't think anyone really has a legit reason to hate on what hes doing. Yeah, I agree with this. Savior has been playing BW since his teens right? Outside of pro-gaming what is he actually qualified to do, does he have any type of education at all? The guy has got to be able to support himself somehow, and what he is offering is something of relatively high value. I don't think this situation hurts anyone or does any more damage to BW/esports. So honestly, I say let the guy be. It doesen't. And I don't really care what Savior does now. But what gives him the right to use BW to make money. The excuse "this is all I know what to do" is disgusting. What about guys like go.go that can barely take care of themselves (Oldboy) How is that fair to them, the people he dragged into this mess. They have 0 skills as well. He's just lucky he had such a successful career or this wouldn't even work. He should just do his military service, people will forget about him, and he should just go to school and make a proper future for himself. Clinging on to BW after what he's done just b/c "its all I know" is crazy. Nothing wrong with streaming, but Im getting the impression he's actually using his BW fame and career to sustain himself completely. To be quite honest, if he comes back from the military and becomes a successful businessmen, it will be the better future for everyone: For savior himself for obvious reasons, and for eSports because it shows to the society that even the "spoiled kids" can become successful in life.
This.
He doesn't have mandatory military service because of a knee condition.
In any other avenue of life, I'll be rooting for him to succeed as I realize he did give his most formative years to the game I love and his predicament (young gamers who have no life skills) is mirrored by many other current/former progamers.
People need to stop treating him like a victim. As a former bonjwa he could've been set up for life in the industry similar to how Yellow and Boxer got opportunities but he fucked it up by being greedy.
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EPT
