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This is sad. I guess he hasn`t gotten over the fact that he should stay far away from BW already.
He is a great player really , but this is just...
$25 per 1.5 hour? To contextualize, how much does incontrol ask for his coaching?
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I don't know why everyone's saying "if I spoke korean I'd take lessons" find someone to give you a couple of korean sentences, ante up and take a shot at a legit Bonjwa. Forget lessons, just have a go head on. Surely the chance of that, must excite some of you hard core brood war players even a little?
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On March 30 2012 01:47 Gingerninja wrote:
I don't know why everyone's saying "if I spoke korean I'd take lessons" find someone to give you a couple of korean sentences, ante up and take a shot at a legit Bonjwa. Forget lessons, just have a go head on. Surely the chance of that, must excite some of you hard core brood war players even a little?
Even if a foreigner want's to take lessons from him there will be trouble communicating between student and coach because Savior I believe will not have a good command at the English language ?
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On March 30 2012 01:47 Condor Hero wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 01:35 supernovamaniac wrote:On March 30 2012 01:33 cLicK wrote:On March 30 2012 01:20 TheToast wrote:On March 30 2012 01:05 Ilikestarcraft wrote:
I don't think his intention to make money is wrong because that is one of the reasons most people coach in the first place. Savior isn't really taking advantage of anyone. Its people's money and they can do what they want with it. If people are willing to offer money and are interested in being coached then why not. I personally think this is a better way than living off donations from his fans since hes actually being paid in exchange for something. Don't think anyone really has a legit reason to hate on what hes doing. Yeah, I agree with this. Savior has been playing BW since his teens right? Outside of pro-gaming what is he actually qualified to do, does he have any type of education at all? The guy has got to be able to support himself somehow, and what he is offering is something of relatively high value. I don't think this situation hurts anyone or does any more damage to BW/esports. So honestly, I say let the guy be. It doesen't. And I don't really care what Savior does now. But what gives him the right to use BW to make money. The excuse "this is all I know what to do" is disgusting. What about guys like go.go that can barely take care of themselves (Oldboy) How is that fair to them, the people he dragged into this mess. They have 0 skills as well. He's just lucky he had such a successful career or this wouldn't even work. He should just do his military service, people will forget about him, and he should just go to school and make a proper future for himself. Clinging on to BW after what he's done just b/c "its all I know" is crazy. Nothing wrong with streaming, but Im getting the impression he's actually using his BW fame and career to sustain himself completely. To be quite honest, if he comes back from the military and becomes a successful businessmen, it will be the better future for everyone: For savior himself for obvious reasons, and for eSports because it shows to the society that even the "spoiled kids" can become successful in life. This. He doesn't have mandatory military service because of a knee condition. In any other avenue of life, I'll be rooting for him to succeed as I realize he did give his most formative years to the game I love and his predicament (young gamers who have no life skills) is mirrored by many other current/former progamers. People need to stop treating him like a victim. As a former bonjwa he could've been set up for life in the industry similar to how Yellow and Boxer got opportunities but he fucked it up by being greedy.
I think people are misunderstanding my views sometimes.
I don't want people like Savior to fail in life. I really want them to succeed: just not in something BW related. And that's why I always criticize his actions related to BW on this very forum: a starcraft community website.
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On March 30 2012 01:47 Abort Retry Fail wrote:
This is sad. I guess he hasn`t gotten over the fact that he should stay far away from BW already.
He is a great player really , but this is just...
$25 per 1.5 hour? To contextualize, how much does incontrol ask for his coaching?
I think mid-tier SC2 progamers generally charge 30-80 dollars per hour, although Savior charging $25 for a 1.5 hour lesson is like MVP charging $5/ hour for a lesson.
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This is like learning economics/how to play the stock market from Gordon Gekko.
But really, if you know Korean and are what seems to be a burgeoning BW pro, this seems to be an excellent opportunity.
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I always find it hilarious how forgiving people on TL can be towards Savior. As supernovamaniac pointed out in his excellent post, he did irreparable damage to the BW scene. That's not something you come back from, try to make money from the same scene, and expect to have people look favorably on or support you. That post should be the beginning and end of any Savior discussion.
It's also foolish to say things like "BW is all he knows, even though he did horrible horrible things he should still be allowed to make money from the only thing he can do." Nope. While technically yes, there is nothing illegal about wanting to earn money from BW lessons, the public outrage from such a decision should shame him away from ever trying.
Savior should have known that when he decided to become a progamer, he was forgoing traditional means of education and trade learning. The same thing happens with athletes in any professional sport who start young and flame out early. While it may sound harsh, you really can't feel any pity for them if they refuse to find any sort of backup plan once the writing is on the wall that their time is done. Just because they didn't pursue schooling at the traditional time that others do doesn't mean the option is forever closed to them once plan a fails.
I don't know, I just get pretty disgusted when I see people supporting Savior looking to profit from any kind of BW venture.
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On March 30 2012 01:50 Sawamura wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 01:47 Gingerninja wrote:
I don't know why everyone's saying "if I spoke korean I'd take lessons" find someone to give you a couple of korean sentences, ante up and take a shot at a legit Bonjwa. Forget lessons, just have a go head on. Surely the chance of that, must excite some of you hard core brood war players even a little? Even if a foreigner want's to take lessons from him there will be trouble communicating between student and coach because Savior I believe will not have a good command at the English language ?
I didn't mean lessons, pay for the lessons but challenge him to a game instead. It's money in his pocket either way. See if you have what it takes to win against the former best player in the world. He might reject of course, but it wouldn't hurt to try asking.
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The thing about it being "ok" for Savior to keep living off of BW beacuse he's been progaming all his life so he doesn't know anything else is total bollocks. He betrayed the scene, the fans and everybody, if he doesn't know what else to do, here's a suggestion: Fucking study so you can move on with your life ! (and let us angry people move on too, that would be nice kthnxbye  )
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On March 30 2012 00:36 Chef wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 00:32 Ryo wrote:On March 30 2012 00:29 Chef wrote:On March 29 2012 23:16 OpticalShot wrote:
Very, very disappointed.
Savior was one of the core group involved in the scandal that triggered a huge crumble of the scene. Although arguable to some degree, his actions resulted in a dozen or so progamers and B-teamers losing their job and their career dreams. Moreover, it was openly admitted in the Adieu MBCGame program that Savior played an integral role in the eventual closing of MBCGame. On one hand, Savior is one hell of a cunning guy - he is still finding ways to milk the money out of the very business he destroyed himself. On the other hand, I can't imagine how much twisted evil thoughts reside in his mind...
I'll take the one positive thing from this news and hopefully remember that one only - there are still fans excited enough about the legendary game of SCBW that they'd pay good money for lessons from a publicly denounced figure. You can be angry about what Savior did, but I think it's unfair to be angry at what Savior for what other players did. Everyone is responsible for themselves. A dozen or so other progamers got themselves involved, not Savior. If you're gonna blame Savior for getting them involved, let's go all the way up the ladder to the bad people Savior met that got him involved, k? Does that sounds stupid and make it seem like Savior wasn't responsible? That's why people have to be responsible for themselves. He was in jail for a year, probation for 2. That doesn't look good on your resume. Being self-employed like this is probably one of the few things he can really do to sustain himself. Does he repent in other ways? I don't know. We have very little of the full story, but I maintain that he made stupid mistakes and was too worried about being cool with bad groups of people. It's clear that Savior's actions contributed to the scandal, which in term contributed to troubled times for the scene, but neither were by themselves significant. As far as "twisted evil thoughts" ... Not much more twisted than the celebrities in every entertainment business who get rich fast, get involved with bad people, and ruin their careers. The only difference is that those industries see it as normal. Savior never went to jail. Show nested quote +sentenced to 1 year imprisonment, 2 years probation on the 22nd of October 2010. His probation ends on the 22nd of June this year. So what. He had a choice between a year of imprisonment or 2 years probation? Whether you think that's enough or not, he's still got a criminal record and lost his job.
No, what that means is that if he doesn't commit any crimes for 2 years, he doesn't serve any prison time at all.
Savior and Yarnc have together made almost 50 millon Won from Afreeca broadcasting alone, from a scene that he played a part in helping to destroy and in the process caused so many people to lose their jobs. And he broadcasts on Afreeca because it's an easy way for him to make good money. Don't make excuses for him. You talk about people being responsible for themselves. How about Savior taking the high road and not making money off the BW scene. Go back to school, which was what he claimed he was going to do last year.
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Well, even though he cheated he's still a good player.
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On March 30 2012 02:08 Ryo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 00:36 Chef wrote:On March 30 2012 00:32 Ryo wrote:On March 30 2012 00:29 Chef wrote:On March 29 2012 23:16 OpticalShot wrote:
Very, very disappointed.
Savior was one of the core group involved in the scandal that triggered a huge crumble of the scene. Although arguable to some degree, his actions resulted in a dozen or so progamers and B-teamers losing their job and their career dreams. Moreover, it was openly admitted in the Adieu MBCGame program that Savior played an integral role in the eventual closing of MBCGame. On one hand, Savior is one hell of a cunning guy - he is still finding ways to milk the money out of the very business he destroyed himself. On the other hand, I can't imagine how much twisted evil thoughts reside in his mind...
I'll take the one positive thing from this news and hopefully remember that one only - there are still fans excited enough about the legendary game of SCBW that they'd pay good money for lessons from a publicly denounced figure. You can be angry about what Savior did, but I think it's unfair to be angry at what Savior for what other players did. Everyone is responsible for themselves. A dozen or so other progamers got themselves involved, not Savior. If you're gonna blame Savior for getting them involved, let's go all the way up the ladder to the bad people Savior met that got him involved, k? Does that sounds stupid and make it seem like Savior wasn't responsible? That's why people have to be responsible for themselves. He was in jail for a year, probation for 2. That doesn't look good on your resume. Being self-employed like this is probably one of the few things he can really do to sustain himself. Does he repent in other ways? I don't know. We have very little of the full story, but I maintain that he made stupid mistakes and was too worried about being cool with bad groups of people. It's clear that Savior's actions contributed to the scandal, which in term contributed to troubled times for the scene, but neither were by themselves significant. As far as "twisted evil thoughts" ... Not much more twisted than the celebrities in every entertainment business who get rich fast, get involved with bad people, and ruin their careers. The only difference is that those industries see it as normal. Savior never went to jail. sentenced to 1 year imprisonment, 2 years probation on the 22nd of October 2010. His probation ends on the 22nd of June this year. So what. He had a choice between a year of imprisonment or 2 years probation? Whether you think that's enough or not, he's still got a criminal record and lost his job. No, what that means is that if he doesn't commit any crimes for 2 years, he doesn't serve any prison time at all. Savior and Yarnc have together made around 50 millon Won from Afreeca broadcasting alone, from a scene that he played a part in helping to destroy and in the process caused so many people to lose their jobs. And he broadcasts on Afreeca because it's an easy way for him to make good money. Don't make excuses for him. You talk about people being responsible for themselves. How about Savior taking the high road and not making money off the BW scene. Go back to school, which was what he claimed he was going to do last year.
I know we all want to crucify him on sticks and such but what can we do except calling him matchfixer and destroyer ? He sees it as a way to exploit his previous bw fame and he is gaining money from it of course he is going to continue doing what he is "good" at . No matter how much we paint the image of destroyer at savior but if fans are stilling willing to pay their money for his streams and coaching than it's the user fault .
Fans maybe believe their money and time is probably is wiser spending on savior than on other things.
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if anyone foreigner is going to do it, I will happily translate for them :3 yeah he is a match fixer but he is also a bonjwa. if you dont like him, just dont pay. or pay and beat him in a bo9 and then bm 
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That is incredibly low on average...... you have Savior quite possibly the greatest Zerg of ALL TIME, at least the greatest ZvT player of all time giving lessons for $25, contrast that with IdrA charging $300 p/h. This is a steal.
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On March 30 2012 02:13 Sawamura wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 02:08 Ryo wrote:On March 30 2012 00:36 Chef wrote:On March 30 2012 00:32 Ryo wrote:On March 30 2012 00:29 Chef wrote:On March 29 2012 23:16 OpticalShot wrote:
Very, very disappointed.
Savior was one of the core group involved in the scandal that triggered a huge crumble of the scene. Although arguable to some degree, his actions resulted in a dozen or so progamers and B-teamers losing their job and their career dreams. Moreover, it was openly admitted in the Adieu MBCGame program that Savior played an integral role in the eventual closing of MBCGame. On one hand, Savior is one hell of a cunning guy - he is still finding ways to milk the money out of the very business he destroyed himself. On the other hand, I can't imagine how much twisted evil thoughts reside in his mind...
I'll take the one positive thing from this news and hopefully remember that one only - there are still fans excited enough about the legendary game of SCBW that they'd pay good money for lessons from a publicly denounced figure. You can be angry about what Savior did, but I think it's unfair to be angry at what Savior for what other players did. Everyone is responsible for themselves. A dozen or so other progamers got themselves involved, not Savior. If you're gonna blame Savior for getting them involved, let's go all the way up the ladder to the bad people Savior met that got him involved, k? Does that sounds stupid and make it seem like Savior wasn't responsible? That's why people have to be responsible for themselves. He was in jail for a year, probation for 2. That doesn't look good on your resume. Being self-employed like this is probably one of the few things he can really do to sustain himself. Does he repent in other ways? I don't know. We have very little of the full story, but I maintain that he made stupid mistakes and was too worried about being cool with bad groups of people. It's clear that Savior's actions contributed to the scandal, which in term contributed to troubled times for the scene, but neither were by themselves significant. As far as "twisted evil thoughts" ... Not much more twisted than the celebrities in every entertainment business who get rich fast, get involved with bad people, and ruin their careers. The only difference is that those industries see it as normal. Savior never went to jail. sentenced to 1 year imprisonment, 2 years probation on the 22nd of October 2010. His probation ends on the 22nd of June this year. So what. He had a choice between a year of imprisonment or 2 years probation? Whether you think that's enough or not, he's still got a criminal record and lost his job. No, what that means is that if he doesn't commit any crimes for 2 years, he doesn't serve any prison time at all. Savior and Yarnc have together made around 50 millon Won from Afreeca broadcasting alone, from a scene that he played a part in helping to destroy and in the process caused so many people to lose their jobs. And he broadcasts on Afreeca because it's an easy way for him to make good money. Don't make excuses for him. You talk about people being responsible for themselves. How about Savior taking the high road and not making money off the BW scene. Go back to school, which was what he claimed he was going to do last year. I know we all want to crucify him on sticks and such but what can we do except calling him matchfixer and destroyer ? He sees it as a way to exploit his previous bw fame and he is gaining money from it of course he is going to continue doing what he is "good" at . No matter how much we paint the image of destroyer at savior but if fans are stilling willing to pay their money for his streams and coaching than it's the user fault . Fans maybe believe their money and time is probably is wiser spending on savior than on other things.
Nah, I can't be bothered with calling Savior names or what not. But I'm explaining why he shouldn't be viewed as some kind of victim nor are criticisms of him unjustified.
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As a SC2 player that got interested in the BW scene, I dunno how to feel about savior. I feel like I should hate him, but at the same time I shouldn't be that negative towards him. On the one hand, where would BW be right now if the match fixing scandal never happened? But on the other hand, it did, but how much savior is really to blame makes me confused on what I should be feeling.
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On March 30 2012 02:21 Slardar wrote:
That is incredibly low on average...... you have Savior quite possibly the greatest Zerg of ALL TIME, at least the greatest ZvT player of all time giving lessons for $25, contrast that with IdrA charging $300 p/h. This is a steal.
IdrA charges $300 d/h because he doesn't like coaching, he said if he is gonna do it you might as well make it worth his time lol
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25$ seems like a gift, even all those idras incontrols and destinys charge way more....so to get this price from Savior himself seems like a gift from heaven
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Well this is kinda sad. Savior must be a smart enough guy to become bonjwa at one point. But his reputation is always there to haunt him and it must be really hard for him to do anything. I don't see this as "exploiting his past fame for $" but him just trying to survive and make a living.
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Well it's a sick good deal but ... I don't know how i feel about this.
It's just so unfair i mean, if the match fixing scandal had only affected him and the others players responsible for this i would be fine with it but, like, he really ruined it for every BW progamers. I mean, he already has quite a lot of money at this point, but what about all the less sucessful players who won't be able to because of MBCGame shutting down, the lack of sponsors for osl etc etc ... ?
The idea that he can still squeeze so much out of something he destroyed while others who didn't do anything have less opportunities is just ... disgusting i guess.
Not that i wish him to fail in life tho, but, can't he just stay away from the game ?
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EPT
