EPTIs BW HD possible? - Page 2
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pzea469
United States1520 Posts
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
On March 06 2012 16:12 pzea469 wrote: Just to clarify, my idea would be to keep the same proportions. Simply by using the resolution hack, but then using much larger and higher quality sprites. I know nothing of modding bw though so I have no idea how reasonable of an idea this would be. It would also require maps to be made many times the size, which I'm not even sure if the game would let you, though the same was thought about the resolution. Anyways, just throwing the idea out there for now. You'd basically be remaking the entire game. Sure, it's possible, but it's a huge amount of work for very little benefit. You'd basically just be making SC2BW, except it'd take a lot longer and probably not even look all that good unless you had some damn good sprite artists (like, Odin Sphere good). This thread made me play SC2BW, since it's easier to set up than proper BW, but apparently the AI can't understand the concept of "no automine" and just rallied probes to minerals uselessly, and no one plays SC2BW online anymore. Too bad. | ||
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-_-Quails
Australia796 Posts
On March 06 2012 16:21 Ribbon wrote: You'd basically be remaking the entire game. Sure, it's possible, but it's a huge amount of work for very little benefit. You'd basically just be making SC2BW, except it'd take a lot longer and probably not even look all that good unless you had some damn good sprite artists (like, Odin Sphere good). Not really. Assuming that BW was made in an even moderately sane way then the only thing you would need to touch would be the graphics. If it's at all like SC2 then the unit part at least would be completely trivial - just make new, higher res sprites then slot them in. Map tiles could probably be replaced similarly, though I'm not quite sure. Then have the display at 4:3 ratio at close to monitor size. Even if you can't just do that then you would only have to write something to take unit location/map information and display it with new sprites/tiles then apply things like FOW. The big issue with it that I can see is that the second kind of mod would use techniques similar to a map-hack so I would be hesitant about playing online unless it was confirmed to be ok. *Adapting existing sprites into higher res or scalable sprites can be annoying as hell, but doesn't require too much in the way of creativity - you need to be able to see the intention in the low-res then clean it up, rather than make something from scratch. | ||
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Emperor_Earth
United States824 Posts
This is like saying the best part of SDTV is that it doesn't come in HD... What???? I thought it was the earlier availability and greater value leading to broader audience and subsequently greater breadth in programming. But that's just me. | ||
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Mallidon
Scotland557 Posts
On March 06 2012 13:03 BWalma wrote: There was a mod actually. Here is video of the mod. I would love an option to watch BW if observation options were like this. I never played it, but hearing about it I really feel like I have missed out/ am missing out on something. The reason I don't is that I find it really hard to figure out what is going on most of the time, thus making my attempts to do so largely frustrating. I find myself squinting at the screen and generally just guessing what buildings are and what units are etc. Maybe its just my eyesight, could need testing, but having become accustomed to SC2 since starting playing that, it is really strange trying to watch BW. If there was an observer only option like this enabled, I would jump at the chance to watch some of it. I can see why many of the true BW fans would hate a change forced upon them, as nobody likes things that they are used to being fiddled with when they are not broken, but for newbies like me it would be great  Edit - Changed to add 'observer only' to my post. Obviously changing an entire game would be stupid at this point and would basically create a new game for the players... We already have that! My opinion really is just if it makes the obs view nicer, and that only, then it would be a pretty neat option. | ||
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RaLakedaimon
United States1564 Posts
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Itachii
Poland12466 Posts
You'd basically have to remake whole game, starting from graphic side and ending on balance issues.I don't see the point of doing this though, you already have BroodWar - for competitiveness, strategy depth and perfect balance between each race, and on the other side theres it's sequel - with advanced graphics and tons of $ put into it's promotion. Each thing that might supposedly look BW imperfect and old fashioned, like 1 resolution option, which makes it harder to play, sums up to perfect game as a whole - easiest example - you can't just evacuate workers from your nat by selecting them and clicking on something inside your main immediately, you actually have to scroll/move up there and then click. | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4333 Posts
makes moving Z crack/ultra/defiler ball way too easy bw is an old game the graphics are not modern , just accept that already | ||
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shadymmj
1906 Posts
of course all the original mechanics must be kept, but i'm thinking of SF2 HD, although I don't know if that is a carbon copy of the original. i don't know, maybe someone on TL has a dad who is a multi-millionaire, and suppose it is kept non-commercial and blizzard gives their assent...it could reignite interest in BW. | ||
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figq
12519 Posts
I think it would be nice to have HD aspect ratio version, just because almost all contemporary monitors are HD and not 4:3. But even WC3, which is much more modern game and Blizz still publishes patches for it, still doesn't support a real HD version (after a recent patch it supports HD resolutions, but by "stretching" the whole game, which isn't the goal here). | ||
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
On March 06 2012 13:59 LightAngels wrote: Its much harder to play with the old UI, and people enjoy BW that way There is absolutely nothing in SC2's UI that is generally considered to make it easier. SC2's UI shows what I have hotkeyed to what. I like that quite a bit, but I can just go ctrl+4 44 when hotkeying something to check (and I often do). It also has a little green line showing shift-clicked actions. Both of these are nice, neither make the game much easier. Unlimited Unit Selection is not "UI". UI is the buttons I press to do things. I put things in a control group the exact same way in SC2 as in BW. That I can put MORE things in a SC2 control group is gameplay, not UI, and certainly not graphics. On March 06 2012 19:16 figq wrote: Balance should not be used as an argument. Each race will be able to develop advantages from a different UI and counter-strats to what other races would be able to do better. Likewise, nothing in the UI can mess with balance except different races having different hotkeys for things (0p is a bit more annoying than 4sd, for instance) On March 06 2012 18:38 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: please updating the ui for bw is unworkable makes moving Z crack/ultra/defiler ball way too easy bw is an old game the graphics are not modern , just accept that already This makes zero sense. HD BW, if anything, would make micro harder by making the units smaller (unless you resized all the units to take up the same real estate on the screen). Unlimited Unit Selection != HD graphics, and there's NO reason to assume otherwise what the hell. SC2BW is running on the SC2 engine, and it has 12-max control groups and no automine/smartcasting, because those AREN'T THE SAME as graphics. On March 06 2012 16:38 -_-Quails wrote: Not really. Assuming that BW was made in an even moderately sane way then the only thing you would need to touch would be the graphics. At the very least, you'd also have to redo all the pathfinding because the screen size is totally different than what it was written for and the unit size in pixels is all what the fuck now. Also, BW has a limit on how much it can display at a time (which is why Valkyries misfire and why my "Fortress surrounded by 50,000 mines and turrets" custom map never got made). Pixels are objects. You are vastly increasing the amount of resources BW is putting into graphics. And yeah, we all have fast computers now, but that's not really the point. The BW code was not designed for that, and it's probably written to efficiently use the resources it was expected to have. You can't just go "More power, Mr Scott". This is kind of why the HD mod shows more screen space and makes things smaller. If it's at all like SC2 then the unit part at least would be completely trivial - just make new, higher res sprites then slot them in. Except SC2's map editor was built for that kind of thing, whereas doing it in BW gets hacky. And getting too fancy with SC2 can indeed cause weirdness (this is why Blizzard maps are so bland. The fancy ESV and GSL maps cause performance issues on lower-end machines). Even if you can't just do that then you would only have to write something to take unit location/map information and display it with new sprites/tiles then apply things like FOW. The sprites are going to be 'bigger" than the old sprites in terms of pixels. You know how the dragoon AI is retarded? That's because it uses the hydralisk AI, but is bigger than a hydra. *Adapting existing sprites into higher res or scalable sprites can be annoying as hell, but doesn't require too much in the way of creativity - you need to be able to see the intention in the low-res then clean it up, rather than make something from scratch. Simple ideas can actually be pretty hard to do, when dealing with decades-old code. Especially since BW is unstable as hell on modern systems to begin with. | ||
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Mooneyes
Sweden72 Posts
Im not saying its easy but sprites doesnt = unit size, generally you have a something else then the actual sprite as the space the unit/npc/whatever occupies. Especialy in games that emulates a third dimention with essentialy 2d graphics. | ||
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
On March 06 2012 18:33 Itachii wrote: I don't know if it is possible from technical pov, but if it is, then its surely hell load of work to do. You'd basically have to remake whole game, starting from graphic side and ending on balance issues.I don't see the point of doing this though, you already have BroodWar - for competitiveness, strategy depth and perfect balance between each race, and on the other side theres it's sequel - with advanced graphics and tons of $ put into it's promotion. Each thing that might supposedly look BW imperfect and old fashioned, like 1 resolution option, which makes it harder to play, sums up to perfect game as a whole - easiest example - you can't just evacuate workers from your nat by selecting them and clicking on something inside your main immediately, you actually have to scroll/move up there and then click. He's only talking of overworking the sprites... Anyways, I think it is definitely possible, but it's still alot of work to do. | ||
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MrTortoise
1388 Posts
On March 06 2012 14:25 Antisocialmunky wrote: You might as well just do SCII:BW if that's what you want. Also, the crappiness of the graphics allows people to figure out what they actually look like in their head. I like you! So many people do not appreciate that point. | ||
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Meteora.GB
Canada2479 Posts
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figq
12519 Posts
On March 06 2012 20:04 Ribbon wrote: Having more horizontal vision will change a lot of the gameplay, and that's part of the UI. But as I said, I don't see this as a problem, people will find ways to balance out whatever is changed.Likewise, nothing in the UI can mess with balance except different races having different hotkeys for things (0p is a bit more annoying than 4sd, for instance) On March 06 2012 21:30 Meteora.GB wrote: You can set your graphics card to keep the aspect ratio and not stretch. The main downside is just that BW never fully utilizes HD monitors and is only 4:3 in the middle.The only thing that really annoys me is playing Brood War on newer larger monitors, where everything is all stretched out. Watching it as a spectator is fine and dandy for me though. | ||
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quuad
Sweden77 Posts
On a side note, I work as a game artist and I'd love to help out with remaking sprites if some smart programmer sorts out the technical stuff. It's a lot of work yes, but by no means impossible (speaking of the graphics). You would build all the units and animations in a 3d program (technically SC2 units could be used for this too - although there is a risk it would look more like a 2d SC2 than an HD BW), and render out isometric sprites from 16 or 32 angles most likely. The map sprites might require more hands-on pixel work, depending on how you approach it. On the other hand, the whole system used for maps could perhaps be over-hauled with much bigger sprites and of course built in support for things such as bottom-to-top pointing ramps and wide bridges. Todays maps could most likely be accurately reproduced. All this is of course assuming it is actually possible to mod BW like this. Also I'm not sure about Blizzard's policies on these things, even as a non-profit project. | ||
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thezanursic
5484 Posts
On March 06 2012 12:57 LightAngels wrote: If we scale up the resolution, it will ruin the game. The best part of BW is that you don't have a high resolution UI like SCII The graphics are the worst part of BW. BW is good because of the strategic depth and the skill required to play not because of outdated graphics. If BW would have been done in a SC 2 engine (With the same AI) it would be a lot more spectator friendly. | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
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Sad[Panda]
United States458 Posts
On March 06 2012 23:11 thezanursic wrote: The graphics are the worst part of BW. BW is good because of the strategic depth and the skill required to play not because of outdated graphics. If BW would have been done in a SC 2 engine (With the same AI) it would be a lot more spectator friendly. I personally completely disagree I feel like SCBW's simple graphics and wonderful color pallets set a much better atmosphere and is generally more immersive than sc2. Not only that but identifying units and their actions in higher scale battles is much easier where sc2's units in general are more clumped up and I guess the only way to describe it is a clusterfuck of a battle, also as an observer the only things you need to understand to enjoy battles are Basic matchup and unit knowledge to really enjoy whats happening. But then again it is all a matter of opinion, to each their own. | ||
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