EPTThis one is pretty sweet. Awesome build order (150/150 for seige eee han timing!). Awesome ending.
Speedrunning the campaign - Page 7
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Ry-Masta-T
United States478 Posts
This one is pretty sweet. Awesome build order (150/150 for seige eee han timing!). Awesome ending. | ||
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Freezard
Sweden1032 Posts
Thanks for your comments  T05: I think you're right in that you can keep the injured marines at the back and the goliaths would chase them. It would probably be difficult to manage though. Actually when I think about it I'm not sure why I just didn't use Raynor as a tank and let him fire at all the incoming enemy units so they would focus on him... I guess he was low on HP but that could've been solved by having a repairing SCV or two. And yeah with the economic part I meant stuff like how many SCVs to build, how much gas you need etc. Like when I look at the run again I see I only use the second dropship to transport over a few units once and that's it. It's probably enough with just one dropship, stimpack and a constant marine production from the two barracks. I guess I should give this mission a real try... T06: Yes, you're right! I use the barracks icon to place the SCV in a position where it will start building pretty much immediately. You're the first to point this out  I also use the barracks icon so that the cursor is placed correctly when I'm going to build the real building, so I can just spam F+Left-Click for the factory etc. By doing this I can save over a second for each building. For example, I improved my T10 from 6:06 to 5:59 just by applying this technique. T06 is really hard to fail so it was all about optimizing those seconds.T07: With the SCV being stuck they mean that the SCV is being slowed down by Kerrigan in the beginning since it moves faster than her. It's not a one second improvement anyway though so it doesn't really matter. T08: I will probably submit it... but I want to improve it further. The strategy I use is just too slow, it should be improvable by minutes with a more offensive strategy. Same with T09 - the SDA run was my first attempt after learning the map @reincremate There was a SC64 run in progress but I think they scrapped it because the N64 game uses version 1.08 or so due to Brood War being included, so the glitches couldn't be used. Plus you weren't able to use the pause glitch and the game runs slower than on PC I believe. | ||
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qrs
United States3637 Posts
On March 08 2012 10:04 Freezard wrote: Thanks for yours! @qrs Thanks for your comments T07: With the SCV being stuck they mean that the SCV is being slowed down by Kerrigan in the beginning since it moves faster than her. It's not a one second improvement anyway though so it doesn't really matter. Ah, I watched the video again and now I see where the SCV is stuck behind her for a short time. I'm surprised that you were able to fix that, though. I'd have thought that you needed Kerrigan in front, since you're using her to tank the damage. I assume that when they're both in range of an enemy unit the A.I. will always target Kerrigan because she's a combat unit, but if the SCV were in front, wouldn't it constantly be taking shots from units that it has passed in range of that Kerrigan has not yet? Is it that even when the SCV is in range and she is not yet in range, the A.I. will ignore the SCV to target her, because she's a combat unit? Or does the SCV take some shots when it's in front but not enough to kill it?T08: I've watched it now (your YouTube version) but nothing really stood out about this run as compared to the earlier one except your decision to cut SCVs a tiny bit in order to build the refinery first allowing you to start siege tank production and siege mode a bit earlier. That looked like a pretty good decision, especially given how strong siege tanks are against this foolhardy A.I. This run didn't feel nearly as crisp or optimized as some of your earlier ones, but as you pointed out earlier in this thread, optimization is probably much, much harder in a "destroy-the-base" mission where there are so many hard-to-calculate variables. I will probably submit it... but I want to improve it further. The strategy I use is just too slow, it should be improvable by minutes with a more offensive strategy. Same with T09 - the SDA run was my first attempt after learning the map That's probably a good idea. I notice now from the thread in the SDA forum that your times for T08 and T09 had actually already been beaten by Aresake, by quite a few minutes, too. For whatever reason, his times never got confirmed or uploaded to the site, so you still have the official record for those, but it would be nice if you had the unofficial record too. | ||
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Freezard
Sweden1032 Posts
So this run was 26.016 compared to my SDA run which is 26.333. But wait... check out the image below. It was taken at 25.0 seconds into the run and you can see that the SCV is intersecting with the ending trigger area. In fact, the trigger doesn't activate until one second later when the SCV is right in the center of the beacon. Compare to my SDA run where the trigger activates immediately when the SCV enters the trigger area, having the same position as in the image. This is why 25 seconds isn't possible - the game only checks the triggers every one-two seconds. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/afkh8.jpg) And yeah, aresake really have some impressive times on T08/T09. Too bad I can't get ahold of him, but I'm not going to reinvent the wheel if you know what I mean... then I'd rather work on other missions | ||
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Freezard
Sweden1032 Posts
As I've just finished my other speedrunning projects I'm actually going to start working on finishing the rest of the BW runs, mixing in some SC2 as well. | ||
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Jonoman92
United States9111 Posts
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zeo
Serbia6344 Posts
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Freezard
Sweden1032 Posts
Super mutas! | ||
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jrkirby
United States1511 Posts
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Freakling
Germany1534 Posts
And it's also missing from the SDA knowledge base... | ||
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nanaoei
3358 Posts
I saw your segments recently from the SDA newsfeed, well done!! | ||
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Freezard
Sweden1032 Posts
On March 25 2013 19:28 Freakling wrote: I did not know, either. And it's also missing from the SDA knowledge base... I added an explanation to the glitch in the knowledge base https://kb.speeddemosarchive.com/StarCraft#Super_mutas The upgrades also work for lurkers, so you can get speed + 2x attack rate for them too. It can also result in other funny glitches, like perma-cloaked lurker/muta/guardian/devourer, and you can even turn a hatchery into a mutalisk and the larvaes will follow it around Or you can make a mobile nydus mutalisk. Or you can make the game crash in many ways... maybe I should just do a video of all the old glitches, heh. | ||
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Darkwhite
Norway359 Posts
T08: 12:39, down from 13:07 T09: 10:23, down from 11:32 Both are done building nothing but marines and only rough execution. There should be quite a bit to be gained by sliding the CC. T08 is also quicker with weaker goliaths (they have better range and damage in 1.16, I think), and T09 is quicker with weaker photon cannons, less effective HP on zealots and shorter range on dragoons. Both runs abuse the base defence AI quite a lot, though, which might not be possible on older builds? Do you want to try to record improved runs, or should I have a go at it? I am really no good at getting every little detail right, but marine only is so much faster here that it ought to be done. | ||
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Freezard
Sweden1032 Posts
But it would be nice if you could record a T09 run so I can see your build and how you abuse the AI.Oh and it seems I have a 12:18 run recorded of T08 as well but I will definitely improve that. | ||
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Darkwhite
Norway359 Posts
- lift to minerals, harvest minerals, build up to about 10 SCVs (this is the no-slide economy), skip gas - clear out Protoss units on top of the cliff leading to SE corner and around the fans N of this cliff, as well as the zealots guarding the SE base without losses (micro or tank with Kerrigan) - lift your barracks to the cliff and build another two barracks - do not attack any buildings yet, this triggers the AI defense response - leave a single vulture to defend your main against the zerg attacks From here, your goal is to build up a strike force of Kerrigan and marines, a total of 12 units is fine. Attack the SE base with this; the strike force will have to deal with a stream of shuttled units, as well as units walking form NE. I am not sure if the AI will respond in this way in older versions. Cut off the walking units on top of the cliff where you have your barracks. You probably want to use a single bunker with your injured marines, placed so that Dragoons fire from mid-ramp. Quickly kill off the Gateway in the SE base, and once the shuttled reinforcements stop coming, kill the three photon cannons by tanking with Kerrigan. Launch an all out attack on the NE base using your newly built marines and the bunkered ones. The NE base will contain no units, you just have to destroy the gateway and the three cannons with minimal losses. Then finish clearing out all the buildings. I used marine range in my runs, it makes the micro a bit easier, but it probably is not the optimal choice. You can use your starting gas to get +1 weapons or stim instead, which is strictly faster for clearing buildings. Or you could just build more marines. Is your 12:18 T08 a tank-only run? | ||
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Freakling
Germany1534 Posts
And about the shuttled units: Kerrigan has 2 lockdowns, right? If you get 2 shuttles before unloading, dealing with the all-in defense is probably much easier. | ||
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Freezard
Sweden1032 Posts
Thanks for that strategy Darkwhite I just got a good run of BWZ05 so I'm gonna try that strategy soon. Just gotta try to beat the BWZ10 record... damn that mission is hell even with super mutas. It's not easy to control 10 groups of mutas when there's shit absolutely everywhere -_-Also yeah my 12:18 is tank only. Best strat is probably a mix of tank and marines. | ||
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Darkwhite
Norway359 Posts
I think the clean improvements are mostly about using the first six minutes a bit better, maybe even building some zerglings before droning, skipping hive and nydus and attacking earlier. Maybe I should try a zergling-scourge no-hydralisk run, but the execution is going to be tough, and they are both incredibly larvae-intensive. | ||
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Freezard
Sweden1032 Posts
Uploading the video, it will be available there. Basically I drone to 50 supply while getting 3 additional hatcheries, hive and zergling upgrades. Then when the upgrades are complete ~8 minutes in I'm at 85 supply and start the super mutas massacre. I kill the terran base last because they have cloaked wraiths and I don't bother with overlord speed. Zergling/scourge sounds like a good idea. Drone less and maybe just 3 hatcheries. You still really can't attack until you have the spire though, and there are some tanks on cliffs that are troublesome. I think the SDA run does the first six minutes pretty well, the goal is to destroy everything but the main bases. You can destroy some cannons/bunkers there, but it's hard to not get killed by air units or tanks. It's pointless destroying other buildings because the AI will just rebuild them. I think I'll actually try that strategy with saves/cheats and see if it could work. EDIT: Oh boy I don't know about that strategy. I got like 13 mins with semi-god mode on. Just too much shit to destroy. | ||
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Skeggaba
Korea (South)1556 Posts
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