EPT
You can find them at Speed Demos Archive.For those interested in running, visit the SDA forums and check out the SC topic. There's also an ongoing project of speedrunning the SC2 campaign
Speedrunning the campaign
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Freezard
Sweden1011 Posts
You can find them at Speed Demos Archive.For those interested in running, visit the SDA forums and check out the SC topic. There's also an ongoing project of speedrunning the SC2 campaign | ||
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hehe
United States132 Posts
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BlackMesa
Kenya338 Posts
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SonuvBob
Aiur21549 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10154 Posts
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Chef
10810 Posts
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Cpadolf
Sweden1199 Posts
On December 11 2011 08:17 FlaShFTW wrote: so you cheated at Z08? aw thats lame... lol jk, but i dont consider that a speed run then. sounds cool, i usually speedrunned by using cheats (There is no cow level FTW!!!) Speedruns have traditionally pretty much always exploited glitches wherever possible to complete a game faster. And he didn't use a code, if that's what you meant. | ||
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Kiante
Australia7069 Posts
On December 11 2011 08:17 FlaShFTW wrote: so you cheated at Z08? aw thats lame... lol jk, but i dont consider that a speed run then. sounds cool, i usually speedrunned by using cheats (There is no cow level FTW!!!) in terms of a speedrun, theres a difference between exploiting bugs and actually using cheats/third party programs. the general rule is that if it can be done in the confines of a normal game, its fair game in a speed run. he needed to be able to time the creeps perfectly and stuff to get the invulnerable drone bug to do that. sure it can seem weird because its not an intended game mechanic, but it can happen and so its allowed. allows for creative ways of solving puzzles | ||
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Keniji
Netherlands2569 Posts
Raynor probably died more than once in T02, also I would have played this mission so often just to break the 1:00 lol. Or maybe your goal was to killt he CC before 1:00, which is fair i guess :D | ||
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Slakkoo
Sweden1119 Posts
On December 11 2011 08:28 Kiante wrote: in terms of a speedrun, theres a difference between exploiting bugs and actually using cheats/third party programs. the general rule is that if it can be done in the confines of a normal game, its fair game in a speed run. he needed to be able to time the creeps perfectly and stuff to get the invulnerable drone bug to do that. sure it can seem weird because its not an intended game mechanic, but it can happen and so its allowed. allows for creative ways of solving puzzles Yah, for example, check a speedrun of Amnesia: The dark descent, thats just mindnumbing. Nice always loved the archive, so fun to watch these and lets plays =) | ||
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xxpack09
United States2160 Posts
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fortheGG
United Kingdom1002 Posts
On December 11 2011 08:17 FlaShFTW wrote: so you cheated at Z08? aw thats lame... lol jk, but i dont consider that a speed run then. sounds cool, i usually speedrunned by using cheats (There is no cow level FTW!!!) Same for me, its a cool trick but not what I would think is a speed run. Will check out the rest of the youtube videos. | ||
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Freezard
Sweden1011 Posts
On December 11 2011 07:37 hehe wrote: i remember someone under the name of philip ball of snow did a few of these to. at least i think thats what his name was Yes, he has most of the current SDA records (which I have now improved). On December 11 2011 08:14 SonuvBob wrote: lol I like the tricks used in Eye for an Eye. I take it these are on version 1.00? Different version for each mission. But yeah Z08 was on 1.01 (invincible drone + cannons doing explosive damage). T02 used the latest version. On December 11 2011 08:17 FlaShFTW wrote: so you cheated at Z08? aw thats lame... lol jk, but i dont consider that a speed run then. sounds cool, i usually speedrunned by using cheats (There is no cow level FTW!!!) Glitches/bugs are legal to do at SDA. At first I also thought it was kinda lame but it actually adds a lot more tactics to it (and lower times of course). Exploits are different from glitches and are not legal, such as mineral hack from canceling egg, nuking anywhere on the map, cheat codes etc. On December 11 2011 08:45 Keniji wrote: How long did you needed to finish this? Raynor probably died more than once in T02, also I would have played this mission so often just to break the 1:00 lol. Or maybe your goal was to killt he CC before 1:00, which is fair i guess :D Took me two months to finish all the missions, playing on and off. I probably could break 1:00, but I had 30 missions to run in total. And really, 1:01 is pretty hard to beat, only one unit died. There are other missions that are much easier to improve. On December 11 2011 08:54 xxpack09 wrote: The Hammer Falls was really cool, wth is that sliding CC trick? lmfao Check out this page for information about the glitches used | ||
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Phyrigian
New Zealand1332 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44298 Posts
It's great to complete these normally, but it's amazing to complete them in such clever and fast ways! | ||
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Freezard
Sweden1011 Posts
On December 11 2011 09:57 Phyrigian wrote: this is the best mission speedrun for the starcraft ive seen: ive copied this, but it took a couple of goes. this one is amazing, how do you just come up with something like this! I have this one uploaded as well My run is 6 seconds faster. But yes the original runners figured out some crazy strategies! This mission is actually one of the easiest to run though. I've tried some missions over 1000 times | ||
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okum
France5778 Posts
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
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garlicface
Canada4196 Posts
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amazingxkcd
GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
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tyr
France1686 Posts
Great job on this speedrun man. ^^ | ||
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iSometric
2221 Posts
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Freezard
Sweden1011 Posts
On December 11 2011 11:18 Fenrax wrote: The "Return to Char" one was really funny. Good job! Upload all missions to YT because most people including me aren't watching anywhere else. Ugh... then I would need to upload 40 missions :| Anyway... here are a couple short ones There's a hidden message in the bonus mission (ignore the last word, it was directed to the game out of frustration  ), see if you can find it Z02 - 0:09 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtNwSLhEego BWBonus - 0:55 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57Q2-clflUk | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
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setzer
United States3284 Posts
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doothegee
Korea (South)3011 Posts
wait what | ||
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SonuvBob
Aiur21549 Posts
On December 11 2011 15:47 setzer wrote: That Dark Origin speedrun is so sick. Seriously. Wowowow | ||
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FractalsOnFire
Australia1756 Posts
Epic bug abuse | ||
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Iplaythings
Denmark9110 Posts
this one is really sick as well http://speeddemosarchive.com/demo.pl?StarcraftBroodWar/StarcraftBroodWar_P07_110 | ||
FantomX
Canada247 Posts
On December 11 2011 09:57 Phyrigian wrote: this is the best mission speedrun for the starcraft ive seen: ive copied this, but it took a couple of goes. this one is amazing, how do you just come up with something like this! The man, the myth, the legend. | ||
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Goldfish
2230 Posts
Click: "Patch 1.04 Release: 1998-12-17 Changes: * StarCraft compatibility with Brood War implemented. * Resource Text Color changed to Green * Custom AI has been strengthened...beware. * Invincible Drone bug has been fixed " Basically it seems when you morph a drone into a structure like a creep colony, then reduce the structure's HP to a low amount before canceling, the drone will become invincible. Other fun stuff includes morphing a drone into a structure, shift right clicking somewhere just before it morphs, then canceling to make it float over everything (can be done with templars too). Most of them have been fixed though in the current patch. For speed runs exploits are generally allowed. Of course there are different type of categories (like 100% speed run with no exploits) but for general speed runs exploits are allowed. Yep good old SC1 bugs. I remember UMS where you had to float two high templar or a drone or do other exploits to complete the objective. Fun times. | ||
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Snipinpanda
United States1227 Posts
On December 11 2011 19:18 Goldfish wrote: Click: "Patch 1.04 Release: 1998-12-17 Changes: * StarCraft compatibility with Brood War implemented. * Resource Text Color changed to Green * Custom AI has been strengthened...beware. * Invincible Drone bug has been fixed " Basically it seems when you morph a drone into a structure like a creep colony, then reduce the structure's HP to a low amount before canceling, the drone will become invincible. Other fun stuff includes morphing a drone into a structure, shift right clicking somewhere just before it morphs, then canceling to make it float over everything (can be done with templars too). Most of them have been fixed though in the current patch. For speed runs exploits are generally allowed. Of course there are different type of categories (like 100% speed run with no exploits) but for general speed runs exploits are allowed. Yep good old SC1 bugs. I remember UMS where you had to float two high templar or a drone or do other exploits to complete the objective. Fun times. Er, the above video has him just building a hatchery somewhere far away and winning. Nothing about invincible drones. | ||
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XsebT
Denmark2980 Posts
I love speed run and I love starcraft. Double love double win. | ||
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Kimaker
United States2131 Posts
That Dark Origins run...just...wow man. Mad props. | ||
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sh4w
United States713 Posts
I don't know if I've ever played through the whole campaign without cheating before. It's just so looong. I should probably do it one day though. | ||
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sapht
Sweden141 Posts
I've played the tassadar-shuttle-zealot mission a lot, using that strategy, but I used to send my shuttles below the spore colony rather than above and unload directly above the beacon. It kinda fails 99% of the time, though. I remember watching the zerg speedruns some years ago but didn't see so many exploits or weird strategies | ||
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kdgns
United States2427 Posts
On December 11 2011 19:23 Snipinpanda wrote: Er, the above video has him just building a hatchery somewhere far away and winning. Nothing about invincible drones. the goal of the campaign was to bring the egg to that far away point, it seems that if you use the drone holding the egg to build a hatch at that spot, the game thinks its already there and triggers a goal completion, seems legit. | ||
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ThePhan2m
Norway2750 Posts
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Freezard
Sweden1011 Posts
On December 11 2011 08:22 Chef wrote: How much of your runs would you say are improved strategies and how much is just being better at the game than the original runner? I'm sorry, I didn't see your message. I have improved the current SC campaign speedruns by 45 minutes (from 3 hours 13 minutes). Definitely most of that time is from new strategies/glitches/running on earlier versions. Using the same strategies will not improve the time so much, no matter how good you are at the game. I would say 30 seconds max per mission. But it depends on the mission really, for example Z07 is really long and you must destroy 40-50 buildings, I'm sure a Korean could lower my time by 2 minutes on this mission. On December 11 2011 20:29 sapht wrote: Great job! I love speedruns. Did you do any new strategies or are you rather performing the previous ones better? And which levels did you play, did you really play all the complete campaigns in BW and original in two months? I finished the original campaign in two months yes. I love SC and speedrunning and got tired of playing online, so I got kinda addicted to this instead Since then I've been working on the BW campaign, but BW missions take much longer to complete because of the pause glitch... which makes running much more annoying to be honest. I've completed the Protoss BW campaign though.On December 11 2011 20:56 kdgns wrote: the goal of the campaign was to bring the egg to that far away point, it seems that if you use the drone holding the egg to build a hatch at that spot, the game thinks its already there and triggers a goal completion, seems legit. It's already there, because the drone teleports to the position where I build the hatchery. You just don't see it because it goes too fast. Thank you for your comments Dark Origin is all about the dropship. It arrives on random times, in my 0:55 run it arrived earlier than I've ever seen it do before. Most missions include random elements like this... ugh.Now something for you glitch haters P06 - 2:14 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Q_WI-GGrDo T07 - 0:26 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBSQjf9XrZ8 | ||
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corumjhaelen
France6884 Posts
I had already watched the old speedrun of the campaign, so seeing that clever use of glitch is pretty nice imho. Really love what you're doing and yeah, your dark origin is a sick improvement on the original :D I'm pretty sure you're overall more skilled than the previous guys, would love to see you execute of the macro missions (like BW Z10/Z07). Thanks ! | ||
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valaki
Hungary2476 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10154 Posts
btw these tricks are so cool lol | ||
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sOvrn
United States678 Posts
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
Hat's of for beating them, that's impressive, how much time did it take ? <- big SDA fan | ||
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Skeggaba
Korea (South)1556 Posts
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Pholon
Netherlands6142 Posts
Have you run New Gettysburg? I ran it and broke the current record cause I pulled SCVs to attack with and kill stuff faster but no recording  I fear you might completely destroy it though.Did you pull off the double nuke build on that Ion Cannon mission. Such a thing of beauty but oh so difficult And yeah lastly I have to echo tyr's comment, please join the speedrun marathon with SC :D | ||
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Boundz(DarKo)
5311 Posts
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Chronopolis
Canada1484 Posts
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Perguvious
United States1783 Posts
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Freezard
Sweden1011 Posts
On December 14 2011 08:01 Pholon wrote: Have you run New Gettysburg? I ran it and broke the current record cause I pulled SCVs to attack with and kill stuff faster but no recording I fear you might completely destroy it though.Well, someone at SDA got 8 minutes on it (current SDA run 14 minutes) like a year ago but I can't reach him and his video is gone, so I haven't really bothered doing that mission. I tried it once after learning the map and got 11:30 on video using the same strategy but that's about it Did you run it recently? If you're interested in running any mission I can help you out, I know which missions are the easiest to improve.Did you pull off the double nuke build on that Ion Cannon mission. Such a thing of beauty but oh so difficult Double nuke! And yes it's very difficult to pull off the ending part, especially since I used an early version with slower dropships x_x And yeah lastly I have to echo tyr's comment, please join the speedrun marathon with SC :D Maybe on the European marathon But it would be hard, many strategies are risky/random... and there are a few timed missions that are boring to watch :/ | ||
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iSometric
2221 Posts
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Pholon
Netherlands6142 Posts
On December 14 2011 09:44 Freezard wrote: Double nuke! And yes it's very difficult to pull off the ending part, especially since I used an early version with slower dropships x_x http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhSWu7D4W8g Oh bravo sir, bravo | ||
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HuK
Canada1591 Posts
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ChaosSmurf
United Kingdom175 Posts
EDIT: haha, the double nuke, christ that was beautiful. | ||
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Freezard
Sweden1011 Posts
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLA6BF107F194676AC&feature=view_all | ||
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Sephy90
United States1785 Posts
On January 06 2012 14:13 Freezard wrote: Hi, I have uploaded the whole Protoss campaign now http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLA6BF107F194676AC&feature=view_all Oooo thanks for this! Watching these was really interesting and entertaining lol. | ||
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
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EternaLLegacy
United States410 Posts
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flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
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HaruHaru
United States988 Posts
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flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
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Superiorwolf
United States5509 Posts
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surfinbird1
Germany999 Posts
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Sandrosuperstar
Sweden525 Posts
looking forward to the sc2 ones | ||
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Snipinpanda
United States1227 Posts
Trial and error? Or did you do some calculations? | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
Killer scourge micro video. Never saw that but it twas epic. | ||
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meegrean
Thailand7699 Posts
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Freezard
Sweden1011 Posts
WARNING! This is a glitchfest. If you don't like to watch glitches, don't bother, and please don't dislike my videos because you think it's "cheating". For God's sake, I play vs the AI... On January 07 2012 12:53 Snipinpanda wrote: How did you optimize the build orders for some of these missions? Trial and error? Or did you do some calculations? Well first you plan out what you think is the minimum required and you start with that. If your economy is too weak you build an additional worker etc. It's a lot of trial and error - basically you follow patterns and in the end you will know exactly when to do things, like pulling a Probe to build a proxy Pylon at xxx minerals. After you watch your runs you can think of how to refine and improve the build orders. For longer/base destroying missions I usually don't bother optimizing though, it's basically impossible because there are too many options and variables in play. Also I check optimal mineral patches for every mission. Thank you all for your comments Unfortunately I can't upload all Terran missions because I deleted some of my videos, I'll have to wait until they are uploaded at SDA. But I got some more BW videos soon. | ||
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Hyperionnn
Turkey4968 Posts
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Vod.kaholic
United States1052 Posts
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aiuradun
Denmark115 Posts
also will you do a "complete" run instead of singel mission runs to see how fast you cna get through sc in 1 go (impresses me alot more when ppl do full runs in 1 sitdown :-) also how do you differentiate glitches from exploits. /Cheers | ||
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bITt.mAN
Switzerland3693 Posts
It's still a very good strategy, but the micro could be even more wheeeeee | ||
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corumjhaelen
France6884 Posts
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
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7mk
Germany10157 Posts
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blubbdavid
Switzerland2412 Posts
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Freezard
Sweden1011 Posts
Now working on BW Terran... but it's progressing slowly. Just completed two missions so far. On January 12 2012 18:47 aiuradun wrote: are there no rules in regards to patches? or can you pick and chose in patches in regards to witch patch works best for each mission? also will you do a "complete" run instead of singel mission runs to see how fast you cna get through sc in 1 go (impresses me alot more when ppl do full runs in 1 sitdown :-) also how do you differentiate glitches from exploits. You can use whatever patch you want for each mission. Which makes playing through the whole campaign in one go much slower than these runs, since you'd have to settle with one version. I really don't plan on doing that unless I go to the SDA marathon, but then again there are a few time based missions like T03 that takes 20 minutes of staring at the screen, so that's also one reason a single-segment run kinda sucks (aside from all the randomness). And exploits are things you need a third party program to do, like mineral hack or nuke anywhere. Not actually sure how they are done because I've never used any exploit but I guess you alter the memory in some way. Glitches are just bugs that are possible to do in the game as it is. Like forcing a Probe down a cliff or through minerals by building a Pylon. On January 12 2012 23:47 bITt.mAN wrote: AH! this is great to look through again, but I'm appalled for BWT03 no stim! When the strategy mainly consisted of MnM eating away at everything, I was... shocked. Now I wanna try q: (damm shouldn't have said that here should I?) Yeah, you mean the SDA run? I'm currently working on this mission and I agree stim could probably improve the time. Tell me if you come up with something cool On January 13 2012 01:47 corumjhaelen wrote: Z03 is sick, would never have thought of that. I think the worst run is probably Z07, but hard to see what to do. Really cool =) Yep, Z07 is pretty bad (but also the hardest/longest mission in the game). Most of the Zerg missions are semi-rushed because coming up with all the new strategies and glitches made me kinda tired of actually executing them well, so my micro is definitely lacking in those missions. Anyway you can always tell me how to improve my strategies and stuff | ||
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zlosynus
Czech Republic339 Posts
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xxpack09
United States2160 Posts
On January 15 2012 03:04 zlosynus wrote: If I recall correctly, in some version of SC it was possible to control and move the nuke, to detonate it in any place. Have you considered that? That's a hack, not just a glitch, so it is not permissible. | ||
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Freezard
Sweden1011 Posts
Patch 1.11b Fixed a bug that allowed Zerg to build without the need for creep. Patch 1.04 Air unit movement near the edge of the map corrected. | ||
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Emnjay808
United States10655 Posts
Haha, I lol'd. | ||
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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Freezard
Sweden1011 Posts
BWT01 2:39 < 2:45 BWT02 3:11 < 4:26 | ||
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Kywalk
Brazil23 Posts
The bacon bug was hilarious. | ||
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Skeggaba
Korea (South)1556 Posts
First one was just lol, so genious to block off the computer with duran :D | ||
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aokces
United States309 Posts
How do you counter nukes? Spider Mines. Perfect Spider Mines. | ||
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Freezard
Sweden1011 Posts
On February 08 2012 09:24 Skeggaba wrote: What happened in the second one there? Dont quite get it ... First one was just lol, so genious to block off the computer with duran :D You rescue battlecruisers with civilians, there are four islands but I skip the third one by killing the civilians. All the pausing is just to save in-game time because if you don't pause then the dropships won't unload until the transmissions are finished etc. | ||
JWD
United States12607 Posts
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Assault_1
Canada1950 Posts
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
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GhandiEAGLE
United States20754 Posts
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Darksoldierr
Hungary2012 Posts
On February 08 2012 09:59 aokces wrote: This one is the most impressive for me. How do you counter nukes? Spider Mines. Perfect Spider Mines. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACCYvuQb17A WoW, that was awsome :D | ||
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ne4aJIb
Russian Federation3209 Posts
I agree with top comment on youtube. I spent about an hour for this mission. xD Against ghost I think it was easier, with laid mines. Against Battlecruisers I had a really bad time.  | ||
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Sinedd
Poland7052 Posts
very impressive ! gz | ||
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We Are Here
Australia1810 Posts
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Freezard
Sweden1011 Posts
On February 08 2012 13:44 JWD wrote: Freezard which of these was hardest to complete? Can you write a bit about some tricks you used to shave seconds off of certain runs? I'm just fascinated by this stuff; would love some insight into your thought process. Actually I've written comments for each of my runs to SDA... but I don't have them on my disk anymore. Sorry :\ The hardest missions because of low success rate have been P06/P07. P06 I've only managed to finish one time, even though spending about 10 hours on it... so yea. P07 is just pure luck, chances of getting through the cannons with no DT losses are ~20% and then after that there's a reaver that kills one of your DTs ~90% of the time. Then there are hard missions because they're just... long. P08 is annoying because it's 7 minutes and it all comes down to the final shuttle reaver attack that is really difficult to pull off. It took me a while to figure out the exact shuttle paths used in the YT run which works pretty well. T10 is similar with the floating factory and dropship ending (nuking the ion cannon). You have to time it perfectly because if you send in the dropship too early it will die and if you send it too late a ghost will use lockdown on it. And even if you cloak the ghosts they're still visible for a short time due to a turret, so it's not uncommon that a ghost dies. That mission is pretty brutal to run in general because there's a lot you need to remember like what to do with every SCV, when to do it (the timings are really strict), and you also need to perform the build anywhere glitch on the first try. Finally there are the Brood War missions and the pause glitch... in the original SC you can just skip through every transmission (dialog) with escape. You can't do that in BW, so you need to waste time listen to the transmissions. That's why you want to pause the game during transmissions because it stops the in-game timer. So usually the screen will center on a unit followed by a transmission. Well, you need to pause within a certain amount of frames before the transmission starts. If you fail, you have to sit through the whole transmission before you're able to restart the mission (or if the transmission is 1 minute long, you better ctrl-alt delete and restart the game). So I think you can imagine the frustration that comes with a 9 minute long mission that ends with such a transmission (BWP02). If you fail to pause it, it doesn't matter how fast you actually finished the mission, it would all be in vain. Thankfully I've gotten pretty good at doing the pause glitch but it's still not easy to do, that's why I'm kinda tired of running BW at the moment... SC was clean of such bs. EDIT: Add Z02 to the missions with low success rate... that teleporting drone glitch to the beacon works ~5% of the time ~_~ | ||
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Necosarius
Sweden4042 Posts
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HaXXspetten
Sweden15718 Posts
(Watch with annotations on btw )Explanation: If you don't kill the red zerg buildings, the trigger that causes the other AIs to actually start playing never commences => the AI will not react when you drop his main, only the static defences... who the hell even thought of this? lol | ||
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Freezard
Sweden1011 Posts
Same strategy as in the SDA run but with one dropship instead of two. The ending is really hard to pull off! My siege mode timing was just two seconds off... woot! | ||
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reincremate
China2213 Posts
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conCentrate9
United States438 Posts
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Freezard
Sweden1011 Posts
You can always subscribe!And I might as well post a new run, BWT05. The SDA run has been posted here already, I copied it and finished 13 seconds faster. Will work on BWT07 now but the SDA run looks pretty solid already. | ||
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Freezard
Sweden1011 Posts
http://speeddemosarchive.com/Starcraft.html | ||
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qrs
United States3637 Posts
On March 03 2012 00:48 Freezard wrote: Nice! I was waiting for this!All my SC runs are now up at SDA with comments for each mission http://speeddemosarchive.com/Starcraft.html | ||
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Boundz(DarKo)
5311 Posts
On March 03 2012 00:48 Freezard wrote: All my SC runs are now up at SDA with comments for each mission http://speeddemosarchive.com/Starcraft.html Välförtjänt! | ||
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qrs
United States3637 Posts
On February 29, 2012, dex wrote: Apparently he doesn't realize that that mission is to survive for a set length of time, and so is presumably unimprovable.Sticking with the 'PC classic' theme, we have a bunch of improvements in the individual-levels table of Starcraft. And by 'bunch', I mean that a person going only by the name of 'Freezard' decided to improve every single one, save for Terran 03 for some reason. Curious decision nonwithstanding, Freezard's considerable contributions combine to chop 45 minutes off the clock, yielding a total time of 2:28:55. It remains to be seen whether the last level to remain standing will also be conquered by him - I sure look forward to that happening. Complete destructions of IL tables are always impressive. | ||
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valaki
Hungary2476 Posts
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Flicky
England2662 Posts
On March 03 2012 05:51 qrs wrote: I just noticed that in his introduction to your speedruns on the SDA homepage, Apparently he doesn't realize that that mission is to survive for a set length of time, and so is presumably unimprovable. I think you underestimate speedrunners. | ||
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corumjhaelen
France6884 Posts
I'm pretty sure you can't do better than what has already been done by the original runner. Congrats, really deserved, and hope to see bw up there soon =) | ||
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Freezard
Sweden1011 Posts
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qrs
United States3637 Posts
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[Azn]Nada
United States275 Posts
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Warlock40
601 Posts
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Skeggaba
Korea (South)1556 Posts
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anatem
Romania1369 Posts
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Freezard
Sweden1011 Posts
On March 07 2012 14:53 qrs wrote: So, I'm starting to watch your videos, Freezard; also comparing with the old records that you demolished, to appreciate how you did it. If you don't mind, I'd like to ask you something: in the Terran 00 mission (tutorial), was the micro trick that you mention discovering the one marine standing next to the refinery? Also, was the arrangement of marines around the command center at the beginning just for fun, or did that somehow help the pathing of the SCVs as well? Hey... glad you like em! The trick on T00 is that I manually press return cargo for each SCV which makes them head for the refinery immediately after returning the gas - normally they would idle for a while before returning. That marine needs to stand there for the trick to work as it manipulates the pathing. The marines around the CC forces the fourth SCV to spawn right next to the mineral patch. Should really have mentioned those things in the comments... well, I actually did, but in older runs that never got published on SDA. That's why I mention 'my previous run' in some of the comments... oh well. On March 07 2012 15:28 Warlock40 wrote: Nice work! I would like to see a speed run done of the new SC2 Master custom game. It took me 6 hours to beat it and a good chunk of time on the banshee level alone, but I saw a friend of mine do the banshee one on the first try. If someone could do all 30 on the first try, that'd be amazing.... I didn't even know about that mod before I read your post... but then again I haven't played SC2 since last summer Anyways I've tried it out and it was fun, not something I would speedrun but will definitely try to beat it one day | ||
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Gene(S)is
Sweden419 Posts
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qrs
United States3637 Posts
On March 07 2012 19:59 Freezard wrote: Thanks for explaining. OK, another question: in T05 (Revolution), you say that the Goliaths are set to target Marines with low health, but wouldn't this be an advantage, if the low-health marines are kept to the back of the pack and the Goliaths don't shoot until they get within range of them? Maybe you only meant that they select among in-range targets on the basis of lowest health, but I thought I saw goliaths moving without shooting when I watched the VOD.Hey... glad you like em! The trick on T00 is that I manually press return cargo for each SCV which makes them head for the refinery immediately after returning the gas - normally they would idle for a while before returning. That marine needs to stand there for the trick to work as it manipulates the pathing. The marines around the CC forces the fourth SCV to spawn right next to the mineral patch. Should really have mentioned those things in the comments... well, I actually did, but in older runs that never got published on SDA. That's why I mention 'my previous run' in some of the comments... oh well. Also, when you say, "the economic part of this run was very ineffective. Better planning is needed to reach sub-5 minutes," I assume that by "economic part" you're referring not only to gathering resources but also to producing units and ferrying them to the battlefield; right? | ||
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qrs
United States3637 Posts
I also liked how you optimized even the little things. The SCV near the NORAD II baiting out the zerglings near the beginning so you wouldn't have to waste time killing them later on was a nice touch. I also liked the parsimony of repairing Raynor just enough to be sure he'd survive until dropships arrived and no more than that. Finally, the master touch: when building the factory and the high-ground starport, first you ordered the builders to build a barracks and canceled that order; only then did you start the building that you actually wanted. I had no idea what the motivation behind this was until I watched those scenes again carefully and thought about what you were doing. I believe your goal was to move the SCV and/or your cursor to the exact spot of buildable terrain where they needed to be to make the buildings as soon as the resources came in, thus squeezing out an extra second or two of movement time. If I'm right about that last, I take my hat off to you Freezard. That level of planning and commitment deserves recognition. Edit: T07: Clever of you to figure out that the top route was a tiny bit faster and that you could use Kerrigan to tank for the SCV to make up for the extra time it takes to get a defensive matrix on it. I don't see how this one could be improved. (I saw that the verifiers' comments and yours for this mission remarked the SCV getting stuck behind Kerrigan at the beginning, but you seem to have fixed that in the version that was uploaded, though the "official" time at the end was still 00:26.) T08: Haven't watched this yet, but when I do, I'll watch the version on your YouTube channel, which beats the version on SDA by 49 seconds. Why not submit the newer version to SDA? | ||
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reincremate
China2213 Posts
On March 07 2012 23:43 Gene(S)is wrote: Very impressive and fun to see some hardcore speed runs. I haven't done that sicne I was a kid playing Golden Eye on Nintendo 64 I'd like to see some SC64 speedruns as I've never played or seen it. How many actions per minute could one possibly do with an N64 controller? | ||
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Ry-Masta-T
United States478 Posts
This one is pretty sweet. Awesome build order (150/150 for seige eee han timing!). Awesome ending. | ||
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Freezard
Sweden1011 Posts
Thanks for your comments T05: I think you're right in that you can keep the injured marines at the back and the goliaths would chase them. It would probably be difficult to manage though. Actually when I think about it I'm not sure why I just didn't use Raynor as a tank and let him fire at all the incoming enemy units so they would focus on him... I guess he was low on HP but that could've been solved by having a repairing SCV or two. And yeah with the economic part I meant stuff like how many SCVs to build, how much gas you need etc. Like when I look at the run again I see I only use the second dropship to transport over a few units once and that's it. It's probably enough with just one dropship, stimpack and a constant marine production from the two barracks. I guess I should give this mission a real try... T06: Yes, you're right! I use the barracks icon to place the SCV in a position where it will start building pretty much immediately. You're the first to point this out I also use the barracks icon so that the cursor is placed correctly when I'm going to build the real building, so I can just spam F+Left-Click for the factory etc. By doing this I can save over a second for each building. For example, I improved my T10 from 6:06 to 5:59 just by applying this technique. T06 is really hard to fail so it was all about optimizing those seconds.T07: With the SCV being stuck they mean that the SCV is being slowed down by Kerrigan in the beginning since it moves faster than her. It's not a one second improvement anyway though so it doesn't really matter. T08: I will probably submit it... but I want to improve it further. The strategy I use is just too slow, it should be improvable by minutes with a more offensive strategy. Same with T09 - the SDA run was my first attempt after learning the map @reincremate There was a SC64 run in progress but I think they scrapped it because the N64 game uses version 1.08 or so due to Brood War being included, so the glitches couldn't be used. Plus you weren't able to use the pause glitch and the game runs slower than on PC I believe. | ||
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qrs
United States3637 Posts
On March 08 2012 10:04 Freezard wrote: Thanks for yours! @qrs Thanks for your comments T07: With the SCV being stuck they mean that the SCV is being slowed down by Kerrigan in the beginning since it moves faster than her. It's not a one second improvement anyway though so it doesn't really matter. Ah, I watched the video again and now I see where the SCV is stuck behind her for a short time. I'm surprised that you were able to fix that, though. I'd have thought that you needed Kerrigan in front, since you're using her to tank the damage. I assume that when they're both in range of an enemy unit the A.I. will always target Kerrigan because she's a combat unit, but if the SCV were in front, wouldn't it constantly be taking shots from units that it has passed in range of that Kerrigan has not yet? Is it that even when the SCV is in range and she is not yet in range, the A.I. will ignore the SCV to target her, because she's a combat unit? Or does the SCV take some shots when it's in front but not enough to kill it?T08: I've watched it now (your YouTube version) but nothing really stood out about this run as compared to the earlier one except your decision to cut SCVs a tiny bit in order to build the refinery first allowing you to start siege tank production and siege mode a bit earlier. That looked like a pretty good decision, especially given how strong siege tanks are against this foolhardy A.I. This run didn't feel nearly as crisp or optimized as some of your earlier ones, but as you pointed out earlier in this thread, optimization is probably much, much harder in a "destroy-the-base" mission where there are so many hard-to-calculate variables. I will probably submit it... but I want to improve it further. The strategy I use is just too slow, it should be improvable by minutes with a more offensive strategy. Same with T09 - the SDA run was my first attempt after learning the map That's probably a good idea. I notice now from the thread in the SDA forum that your times for T08 and T09 had actually already been beaten by Aresake, by quite a few minutes, too. For whatever reason, his times never got confirmed or uploaded to the site, so you still have the official record for those, but it would be nice if you had the unofficial record too. | ||
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Freezard
Sweden1011 Posts
So this run was 26.016 compared to my SDA run which is 26.333. But wait... check out the image below. It was taken at 25.0 seconds into the run and you can see that the SCV is intersecting with the ending trigger area. In fact, the trigger doesn't activate until one second later when the SCV is right in the center of the beacon. Compare to my SDA run where the trigger activates immediately when the SCV enters the trigger area, having the same position as in the image. This is why 25 seconds isn't possible - the game only checks the triggers every one-two seconds. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/afkh8.jpg) And yeah, aresake really have some impressive times on T08/T09. Too bad I can't get ahold of him, but I'm not going to reinvent the wheel if you know what I mean... then I'd rather work on other missions | ||
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Freezard
Sweden1011 Posts
As I've just finished my other speedrunning projects I'm actually going to start working on finishing the rest of the BW runs, mixing in some SC2 as well. | ||
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Jonoman92
United States9103 Posts
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zeo
Serbia6284 Posts
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Freezard
Sweden1011 Posts
Super mutas! | ||
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jrkirby
United States1510 Posts
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Freakling
Germany1529 Posts
And it's also missing from the SDA knowledge base... | ||
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nanaoei
3358 Posts
I saw your segments recently from the SDA newsfeed, well done!! | ||
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Freezard
Sweden1011 Posts
On March 25 2013 19:28 Freakling wrote: I did not know, either. And it's also missing from the SDA knowledge base... I added an explanation to the glitch in the knowledge base https://kb.speeddemosarchive.com/StarCraft#Super_mutas The upgrades also work for lurkers, so you can get speed + 2x attack rate for them too. It can also result in other funny glitches, like perma-cloaked lurker/muta/guardian/devourer, and you can even turn a hatchery into a mutalisk and the larvaes will follow it around Or you can make a mobile nydus mutalisk. Or you can make the game crash in many ways... maybe I should just do a video of all the old glitches, heh. | ||
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Darkwhite
Norway348 Posts
T08: 12:39, down from 13:07 T09: 10:23, down from 11:32 Both are done building nothing but marines and only rough execution. There should be quite a bit to be gained by sliding the CC. T08 is also quicker with weaker goliaths (they have better range and damage in 1.16, I think), and T09 is quicker with weaker photon cannons, less effective HP on zealots and shorter range on dragoons. Both runs abuse the base defence AI quite a lot, though, which might not be possible on older builds? Do you want to try to record improved runs, or should I have a go at it? I am really no good at getting every little detail right, but marine only is so much faster here that it ought to be done. | ||
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Freezard
Sweden1011 Posts
But it would be nice if you could record a T09 run so I can see your build and how you abuse the AI.Oh and it seems I have a 12:18 run recorded of T08 as well but I will definitely improve that. | ||
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Darkwhite
Norway348 Posts
- lift to minerals, harvest minerals, build up to about 10 SCVs (this is the no-slide economy), skip gas - clear out Protoss units on top of the cliff leading to SE corner and around the fans N of this cliff, as well as the zealots guarding the SE base without losses (micro or tank with Kerrigan) - lift your barracks to the cliff and build another two barracks - do not attack any buildings yet, this triggers the AI defense response - leave a single vulture to defend your main against the zerg attacks From here, your goal is to build up a strike force of Kerrigan and marines, a total of 12 units is fine. Attack the SE base with this; the strike force will have to deal with a stream of shuttled units, as well as units walking form NE. I am not sure if the AI will respond in this way in older versions. Cut off the walking units on top of the cliff where you have your barracks. You probably want to use a single bunker with your injured marines, placed so that Dragoons fire from mid-ramp. Quickly kill off the Gateway in the SE base, and once the shuttled reinforcements stop coming, kill the three photon cannons by tanking with Kerrigan. Launch an all out attack on the NE base using your newly built marines and the bunkered ones. The NE base will contain no units, you just have to destroy the gateway and the three cannons with minimal losses. Then finish clearing out all the buildings. I used marine range in my runs, it makes the micro a bit easier, but it probably is not the optimal choice. You can use your starting gas to get +1 weapons or stim instead, which is strictly faster for clearing buildings. Or you could just build more marines. Is your 12:18 T08 a tank-only run? | ||
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Freakling
Germany1529 Posts
And about the shuttled units: Kerrigan has 2 lockdowns, right? If you get 2 shuttles before unloading, dealing with the all-in defense is probably much easier. | ||
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Freezard
Sweden1011 Posts
Thanks for that strategy Darkwhite I just got a good run of BWZ05 so I'm gonna try that strategy soon. Just gotta try to beat the BWZ10 record... damn that mission is hell even with super mutas. It's not easy to control 10 groups of mutas when there's shit absolutely everywhere -_-Also yeah my 12:18 is tank only. Best strat is probably a mix of tank and marines. | ||
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Darkwhite
Norway348 Posts
I think the clean improvements are mostly about using the first six minutes a bit better, maybe even building some zerglings before droning, skipping hive and nydus and attacking earlier. Maybe I should try a zergling-scourge no-hydralisk run, but the execution is going to be tough, and they are both incredibly larvae-intensive. | ||
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Freezard
Sweden1011 Posts
Uploading the video, it will be available there. Basically I drone to 50 supply while getting 3 additional hatcheries, hive and zergling upgrades. Then when the upgrades are complete ~8 minutes in I'm at 85 supply and start the super mutas massacre. I kill the terran base last because they have cloaked wraiths and I don't bother with overlord speed. Zergling/scourge sounds like a good idea. Drone less and maybe just 3 hatcheries. You still really can't attack until you have the spire though, and there are some tanks on cliffs that are troublesome. I think the SDA run does the first six minutes pretty well, the goal is to destroy everything but the main bases. You can destroy some cannons/bunkers there, but it's hard to not get killed by air units or tanks. It's pointless destroying other buildings because the AI will just rebuild them. I think I'll actually try that strategy with saves/cheats and see if it could work. EDIT: Oh boy I don't know about that strategy. I got like 13 mins with semi-god mode on. Just too much shit to destroy. | ||
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Skeggaba
Korea (South)1556 Posts
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Goldfish
2230 Posts
All of them are sick! On February 09 2012 01:08 Freezard wrote: Actually I've written comments for each of my runs to SDA... but I don't have them on my disk anymore. Sorry :\ The hardest missions because of low success rate have been P06/P07. P06 I've only managed to finish one time, even though spending about 10 hours on it... so yea. P07 is just pure luck, chances of getting through the cannons with no DT losses are ~20% and then after that there's a reaver that kills one of your DTs ~90% of the time. Yep P06 was really impressive ! These speed runs have been amazing .More people should check them out if you haven't already. On March 03 2012 05:51 qrs wrote: I just noticed that in his introduction to your speedruns on the SDA homepage, Apparently he doesn't realize that that mission is to survive for a set length of time, and so is presumably unimprovable. Here is the link to the old news page of dex's news post about the SC speed runs by Freezard (you'll want to ctrl + f and type in Freezard as it's in the middle of the page). It's always fun to see what they think about the game and speed run . Bonus points for being impressed, especially if they're not as familiar with the game (since they do have to review a lot of games in general, many they are probably unfamiliar with?). (I mean when you get someone who doesn't know the game too much, I assume since he doesn't know T03 is a timed mission, and that person is impressed despite not knowing what's going on exactly... that's when you know it's that much of an amazing speed run!) | ||
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Freezard
Sweden1011 Posts
Well, before the runs are posted at SDA they are verified by people who are familiar with the game. Here is one example. I would not say they are experts (sometimes they question things that are basic knowledge for a SC player), but at least they have played the game and sometimes speedran it as well.Might as well post the rest of my new runs. | ||
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SuperGnu
Sweden240 Posts
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
On March 29 2013 06:18 Freezard wrote: http://youtu.be/_rZnjXkFDFM Uploading the video, it will be available there. Basically I drone to 50 supply while getting 3 additional hatcheries, hive and zergling upgrades. Then when the upgrades are complete ~8 minutes in I'm at 85 supply and start the super mutas massacre. I kill the terran base last because they have cloaked wraiths and I don't bother with overlord speed. Zergling/scourge sounds like a good idea. Drone less and maybe just 3 hatcheries. You still really can't attack until you have the spire though, and there are some tanks on cliffs that are troublesome. I think the SDA run does the first six minutes pretty well, the goal is to destroy everything but the main bases. You can destroy some cannons/bunkers there, but it's hard to not get killed by air units or tanks. It's pointless destroying other buildings because the AI will just rebuild them. I think I'll actually try that strategy with saves/cheats and see if it could work. EDIT: Oh boy I don't know about that strategy. I got like 13 mins with semi-god mode on. Just too much shit to destroy. That was actually pretty entertaining to watch one hydra turns into a buncha mutas, however that happens lolol | ||
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Freezard
Sweden1011 Posts
http://speeddemosarchive.com/StarcraftBroodWar.html | ||
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Fuchsteufelswild
Australia2028 Posts
I despise that Steiner's best weapon in FF9 (Excalibur 2) could only be gained by getting late into the game in supposedly 12 hours (and that's even more insane for PAL players as you can do less in that amount of real time), to the point where I personally have more respect for people that cheat to get it than those who waste so much life just to oblige such game designers. >:-D What I do love about play-throughs and can still be great about speed-runs is that they can serve as a memory aid if you want to re-visit the story of a game you enjoy but don't want to have to replay the entire game to remember it again. You can even play the files at increased speed to whizz through the story faster. I don't think I ever ended up completing the Brood War campaign and my memory is pretty hazy on a lot of what happens in the original Starcraft campaigns, so I think I'm going to be quite grateful for the ability to save and watch your speed-runs! ♥♥ | ||
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Flicky
England2662 Posts
On February 16 2014 03:45 Fuchsteufelswild wrote: Personally I mostly hate the idea of speed-runs because it's spending a lot of time, usually allowing loading of saved games to get faster recorded times, to get an often-phoney finish time by not enjoying the game but instead rushing everything and basically treating it differently to playing the actual game. 1. Using loading of saved games is a seperate category. 2. There are never "phoney" times. All that stuff is regulated and verified. 3. Speedrunners still enjoy the game. In most cases they enjoy it more than you do. 4. Being upset at at people "playing the game differently" is a super weird problem to have considering how differently Brood War is played to original intentions or expectations. These are all misconceptions for speedrunning and I hope you now realise that. | ||
BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On February 16 2014 00:37 Freezard wrote: Finally my last BW runs of the Terran and Zerg campaigns are up on SDA with comments http://speeddemosarchive.com/StarcraftBroodWar.html congrats! from the ones I watched, they are very entertaining. I don't know if I would ever try speedrunning, mostly since I prefer to just take my time in SP lol but they are still good to watch | ||
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Fuchsteufelswild
Australia2028 Posts
On February 16 2014 04:36 Flicky wrote: 1. Using loading of saved games is a seperate category. 2. There are never "phoney" times. All that stuff is regulated and verified. 3. Speedrunners still enjoy the game. In most cases they enjoy it more than you do. 4. Being upset at at people "playing the game differently" is a super weird problem to have considering how differently Brood War is played to original intentions or expectations. These are all misconceptions for speedrunning and I hope you now realise that. 1. What do you mean category? It's still speed-running, but only some types of speed-runs may allow it and maybe you need to call it something a little different in that case, sure. 2. You misunderstand, I believe. "Phoney" in the above cases where saving and re-loading in order to get your "fastest" time is permitted. If it takes you over 24 hours of real time to get your save state of "7 hours 13 minutes" it's hardly as fast as possible, it's just like competing to get a number to appear. To me that seems like a strange and petty thing to aim for, and speed-running where you must do one on-the-spot play-through with no saves,trying to complete the game with the lowest real time accumulated makes a lot more sense to me. That said, people have different tastes so I mean no offence and each to their own and all of that. 3. Extremely daft and subjective suggestion based on your own assumptions of my enjoyment. "I care more because I can rush through a game faster than you". Somehow who replays a game by trying many different ways of playing it without rushing through every bit of plot as quickly ass possible shows more signs of somehow who really loves the game, in my opinion. Either way, I didn't mean they don't enjoy the game normally, but by rushing through the plot as if it doesn't exist, ignoring any secrets and just treating it as a run, it those speed-runs, it seems more like enjoying the act of speed-running than enjoying the game itself. It also depends on the game of course. I've watched bit of GTR speed-running some games. It seems to me that it would be easier to really still enjoy the actual game (rather than just the speed-running) in games like that doctor one he was playing not long ago than when speed-running RPGs, but maybe that's just my impression. 4. "Upset" and "problem" are not words that belong in this conversation. Perhaps "hate" was too strong a word to use though. I don't like the elitist sort of attitude I've occasionally come across from speed-runners who act like they must enjoy something more by speed-running when lots of other people simply re-play the games. I didn't think it was very common however, but then you just stated "In most cases they enjoy it more than you do." which seems completely baseless. To me, I understand people (and I do it) finding different ways to play games, such as by imposing limitations to make it harder or play out differently, obviously another is just focussing on different characters/weapons/techniques/whatever. It seems a odd to me that people find rushing things to be their favourite way of re-doing games and I just personally don't like for myself the idea of rushing it in that it's a bit like trying to get the least out of the game, but I understand that's not the reason TO do speed-runs. And again, the other main thing is the "phoney" times (i.e. far from real completion times) in what you claim is considered a separate category, in which case, sure, that's what I don't like then. | ||
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habibe
Canada43 Posts
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Fuchsteufelswild
Australia2028 Posts
I didn't "take a dump in the thread" at all and he only highlighted one bit of my post, ignoring my following contrasting paragraph which was the point of the post. I talked about how I normally don't really like speed-running and then showed graciousness for the fact that the speed-runner in question had made his speed-runs that I would normally not have any interest in, because of the fact that, while it can skip through plot quickly, it can be great if you want to whizz through plot and reminisce. | ||
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habibe
Canada43 Posts
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Fuchsteufelswild
Australia2028 Posts
Anyway, I can understand, but that just seems kind of "elitist". People can enjoy the game a lot and not replay it masses of times, people can replay it masses of times, it doesn't necessarily mean one loves the game more than the other. You can play a game once or twice but listen to the music regularly and that is enough of a reminder. That view I had was personal opinion. Maybe it's cliché to you but own because you've heard the opinion many times, I guess, but I haven't, I'm just voicing my own. If people chose to replay a game numerous times but not 50+ times, I don't It's not reasonable to assume that anyone who says something as I have knows that every single speed-runner has actually played it in every way I and they could ever possibly imagine and more, so *of course* they have run through every option... If speed-runners make retorts at people who say things you claim to be cliché (yeah or maybe many people happen to have that as their original thought?*) so readily attacking their opinion or dismissing it as "cliché", I expect they roll their eyes in return. People spend time enjoying aspects of the game outside of the game too, with music, as I said, in other game, but naming the characters after characters from their favourite games etc. It's only "elitist" and uppity to act as if playing the game 100s of times means you must love the game more than them and it is "a silly misconception to assume otherwise". *Not really the appropriate word, is it?...cliché is more like when people read opinions and then just repeat them, not people individually coming to similar conclusions or feelings. Something isn't cliché only because it might be popular opinion, otherwise you can just complain about any majority belief by saying "Oh, that's so cliché. I'm sorry if I came across judging for how you play the game but I didn't come here to argue about anything, I came to make a point about my general disinterest (and yeah, dislike for the concept of speed-running) *not getting in the way* of being able to appreciate the fact that the OP had made them, was linking the videos and that they would actually be nice for me to be able to watch/use for reminiscing. I think if you want non speed-running people to understand your perspective though, you guys might be shooting yourself in the foot if you roll your eyes at them and treat them like their entirely individually determined opinion is actually just "cliché", because in response to what you might think is their elitism ("speed-running is less appreciative of the game" etc. etc.) you show yours. | ||
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habibe
Canada43 Posts
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GoShox
United States1837 Posts
Freezard isn't as active as he used to be but there's still a good amount of people running the game and the speedrun.com leaderboards are more active than you would expect. Artosis did a stream a while back where he tried to learn a few levels and it was fun to watch and I think inspired a couple people to pick it up. If you're like me and don't have time/energy to play 1v1 but like to practice towards something, I would totally recommend picking a level and seeing if you can get WR on it. It's really fun essentially learning a build order for each level and really getting it down. Some levels require an old patch to get a good time, such as most Zerg levels where you can use a glitch to get an invincible Drone. But some levels are run on the latest patch either due to laziness or due to no glitch being necessary (Vanilla Terran 8 is a great example of this and is a very high-skill level). | ||
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