UPDATE: I just played my first few games in ICCUP, with Dental Floss in particular. A few losses and a single win later, having a good time! God damn, brood war is tiring! Thanks for all the help!
Hey there!
I have not played bw against another human being...well, ever! I got hooked on SC2 pretty easily, but a few months ago my graphics cards (or more likely part of my mobo, but thats not the issue) broke down on me. I have more pressing things to be saving up for, so I haven't tried to fix the issue by throwing dollars at it. My time away from SC2 has transformed into a hunger for some sweet RTS action, so I figured why not become a better gamer and a better human being by trying my hand at some brood war!
I am coming at this with basically no knowledge of how to play people of my level. I'm going to try my hand at protoss for my love of zealots, storms, and goofy looking shuttles. I figure I can spend some time bonding with liquipedia to pick up a build and some loose goals for each match up. Any advice for a new player is very welcome.
Some starting questions, what the heck is ICCUP? how does rank (D/D+ whatever) work? and how do you find players of about your skill level?
I probably don't know the questions to ask, so please enlighten me. I don't expect you to explain "how does I win the starcraft?" in a forum post, so by all means link me to the materials that are out there, I mostly want to know where to look and what to look for.
Wow this is reeally awesome seeing more players try out BW. Ok so these are the basics.
Iccup is an international ladder system, you install the iccup launcher on their website and download iccup. Then you enter though the launcher the magnificent world of Brood War. The d/d+ level is a measurement of your skill. E is lowest, A is highest (only the elite of the elite get A, the average player is around C) and you get points for beating other players, so when you are D for example, you get 100 points. D is you're on 1000 points (everybody starts at D) and D+ is when you have reached 2000 points. You find players in the join section, or OP teamliquid, there are always games of your level you can join!
I guess I should have mentioned this too, as I am currently downloading BW I haven't taken a look yet. How can I hook up with the community in client, I assume there is an obviously named channel.
Head straight on into ICCup, and into "OP teamliquid" channel. There are usually people there to play some games with. You can also try looking around in clan channels- I know if any new players come to op [AoV] my friends and I are always good for a match and some pointers.
Make sure you search these forums for resources on switching from SC2/learning BW, there's plenty of stuff for you here.
In PvT, can dragoons be used to delay pushes much in the same way, in SC2, one could use stalkers, or would they just get run down by tank range and vultures? How would one go about delaying a terran push, or do you just need to mosey out of their way and get ready to flank and/or recieve them?
On November 13 2011 19:39 J1.au wrote: Don't tell your opponents you're a SC2 player at the start of game. It's practically inviting them to use abusive strategies against you.
LOL~at least he'll learn how to deal with them sooner!
On November 13 2011 19:39 J1.au wrote: Don't tell your opponents you're a SC2 player at the start of game. It's practically inviting them to use abusive strategies against you.
Last time someone said that in TvT ended up going mass ghost and locking down all his units :D
Go to liquipedia, learn the most basic and safe build for starters. I suggest you play against the computer first to get a hang of the game. After that, go to iccup and create a game with a name like (1v1 D/D- come!).
As a protoss player you have it easier on you at the beginning Good luck !
We probably need a big sticky thread with a how to get iccup etc for new players, there have been heaps of these how do i start threads lately. Any volunteers?
On November 13 2011 21:47 mdb wrote: I think this should be a test - if you can start playing on ICCUP without any help, then you are worthy of playing bw, if not - stick to sc2.
Yeah ICCUP could really streamline their server a bit.. letting players register in game would cut down on frustration and delays a lot, so anyone with only the reg file and client could get started immediately.
On November 13 2011 21:47 mdb wrote: I think this should be a test - if you can start playing on ICCUP without any help, then you are worthy of playing bw, if not - stick to sc2.
Yeah ICCUP could really streamline their server a bit.. letting players register in game would cut down on frustration and delays a lot, so anyone with only the reg file and client could get started immediately.
I mentioned it to them in the past, and they claimed it was impossible. Funny how the Korean servers manage ^^
no way dude, if you're comparing iccup skill level to sc2 skill level, D/D+ is low-mid master in sc2, platinum is more like the people who played fastest in bw.
no way dude, if you're comparing iccup skill level to sc2 skill level, D/D+ is low-mid master in sc2, platinum is more like the people who played fastest in bw.
I agree. When I gave SC2 a try I was about low D+ and got diamond pretty easily. Than I got bored of It. Now I play BW again. I'm like C-/C.
I started playing BW after taking a break from WC3 a few years ago, and I think it's a similar situation. Basically, if you're used to the improved interface and AI, it can be really difficult to cope with BW. I only ever got to D+, and I think mechanics is what held me back. It's easy to become apathetic when you know you could have controlled your army a whole lot easier and faster in SC2. As such, I think it's smart to play Protoss, since you won't struggle quite as much mechanically.
On November 13 2011 21:47 mdb wrote: I think this should be a test - if you can start playing on ICCUP without any help, then you are worthy of playing bw, if not - stick to sc2.
Yeah ICCUP could really streamline their server a bit.. letting players register in game would cut down on frustration and delays a lot, so anyone with only the reg file and client could get started immediately.
I mentioned it to them in the past, and they claimed it was impossible. Funny how the Korean servers manage ^^
I wonder who did you mention it too, because for the first couple of seasons on ICCup you could also create accounts via battle.net and didn't have to register on their site. After the server became more popular and with all the influx of Koreans they restricted it to stop excessive smurfing.
I also agree they should revert back to that again since server is not that popular anymore and would be easier for new players to start.
On November 14 2011 02:01 scarper65 wrote: Don't play the game, it is waaaaaaaayyyyy too hard. I'm a mid masters sc2 player yet I was unable to win more than 1 out of 10 games on iccup.
We all start like that, it does not mean we can't improve.
On November 14 2011 02:01 scarper65 wrote: Don't play the game, it is waaaaaaaayyyyy too hard. I'm a mid masters sc2 player yet I was unable to win more than 1 out of 10 games on iccup.
That's the fun of it. It's more of a challenge. Maybe I liked it more because i started with Brood War, though.
On November 14 2011 02:01 scarper65 wrote: Don't play the game, it is waaaaaaaayyyyy too hard. I'm a mid masters sc2 player yet I was unable to win more than 1 out of 10 games on iccup.
That happens for a couple of weeks as everyone who plays BW knows how to play. But after I got the basics down I'm now able to at least keep my rating at D.
On November 14 2011 02:01 scarper65 wrote: Don't play the game, it is waaaaaaaayyyyy too hard. I'm a mid masters sc2 player yet I was unable to win more than 1 out of 10 games on iccup.
We all start like that, it does not mean we can't improve.
Yeah I like a challenge as well, but this game is ridiculous. The pathing of everything just seems so bad and having only 12 units in a control group is really challenging as well.
no way dude, if you're comparing iccup skill level to sc2 skill level, D/D+ is low-mid master in sc2, platinum is more like the people who played fastest in bw.
no way dude, if you're comparing iccup skill level to sc2 skill level, D/D+ is low-mid master in sc2, platinum is more like the people who played fastest in bw.
Is SC2 really that easy ?
its not that sc2 is very easy, iccup is an international server where players from around the world play on. back when i used to play on iccup only the korean sc1 pro's were rank A to A+. sc1 semi pros and korean B teamers occupied ranks B to B+. actualy no noobs played on it at all. even at rank D when u first start out, players are 10x better than on bnet east or west, probly even europe bnet. this was all a few years ago tho, im sure that its easier to get to C rank nowadays that everyone switched to sc2.
no way dude, if you're comparing iccup skill level to sc2 skill level, D/D+ is low-mid master in sc2, platinum is more like the people who played fastest in bw.
Is SC2 really that easy ?
I wouldn't compare the games off this. The main problem he is having is, sc2 mechanics don't transition well, cause your adding more in bw. While if you transfer from bw to sc2, its a lot easier imo, cause you have less mechanics, so its easier to focus on what you have left. Because of this, when many people from sc2 try to play bw, they don't do well cause they don't know any mechanics with BW. If they would give themselves a chance, or practice it hard for a month or two like they do for sc2, im sure their results would improve drastically.
On November 14 2011 02:01 scarper65 wrote: Don't play the game, it is waaaaaaaayyyyy too hard. I'm a mid masters sc2 player yet I was unable to win more than 1 out of 10 games on iccup.
We all start like that, it does not mean we can't improve.
Yeah I like a challenge as well, but this game is ridiculous. The pathing of everything just seems so bad and having only 12 units in a control group is really challenging as well.
From my personnal experience, it's not neeeeeearly as bad as you make it sound. And at least winning feels good. That being said, competitive bw is hard, and not everyone can enjoy it I guess. No reason not to try and see if someone likes it.
On November 14 2011 02:01 scarper65 wrote: Don't play the game, it is waaaaaaaayyyyy too hard. I'm a mid masters sc2 player yet I was unable to win more than 1 out of 10 games on iccup.
We all start like that, it does not mean we can't improve.
Yeah I like a challenge as well, but this game is ridiculous. The pathing of everything just seems so bad and having only 12 units in a control group is really challenging as well.
From my personnal experience, it's not neeeeeearly as bad as you make it sound. And at least winning feels good. That being said, competitive bw is hard, and not everyone can enjoy it I guess. No reason not to try and see if someone likes it.
Yeah but you didn't start SC2 first and then go to BW.
that's the biggest difference in "skill" between the two games. Basically Storrzerg hit the nail on the head.
BW --> SC2 = Holy shit my buildings are all on one hotkey?? Automine?? One or two control groups?! You're so used to having to macro and micro EVERYTHING that this game seems "simple" to you...you're not used to have such conviniences.
however someone who starts with SC2 and has never touched BW = What the fuck I have 8 barracks to individually click, I have to use three or four hotkeys for an army?? I have to pick each spellcaster individually!? MY SCVS DONT MINE!?
Think of it as someone who has NEVER touched BW and how much more your brain has to wrap around. So while to those of us who played BW, it's simple and what we're used to...to someone who is coming from SC2 as a comparison, the game is batshit crazy hard.
Just note that having antihack is pretty much necessary, and no one will play you if you don't have it.
You might also need to portforward if you are having trouble joining/hosting games.
Oh, and essentially prepare to get owned 99% of your games when you first start. But don't worry with practice, you will eventually start winning. Just search the BW strategy forum for some advice and liquipedia too is kind of helpful.
On November 13 2011 19:21 Rivkeh wrote: How many workers saturate a mineral field/gas? what kind of production per base can I sustain? what other major numbers should I mark down?
Around 25 workers saturate mineral fields on an expansion, and 3 per gas. But generally you don't want to stop production of workers ever(unless you are zerg) so that you can maynard your workers when you expand.
For protoss(since you mentioned you are going protoss), essentially max is up to 4 gates per expansion, but most of the time you want to expand before you reach 4 gates per expansion.
On November 13 2011 19:18 Rivkeh wrote: In PvT, can dragoons be used to delay pushes much in the same way, in SC2, one could use stalkers, or would they just get run down by tank range and vultures? How would one go about delaying a terran push, or do you just need to mosey out of their way and get ready to flank and/or recieve them?
I'm not sure how it works in sc2, but yes you can use dragoons to delay pushes in pvt. What you want to do is just to barely stay out of tank range and force him to keep sieging/unsieging. Dragoons>vulture unless you fall victim to their mines so make sure to always have observers. But you don't really want to engage a terran mech army with pure dragoons unless you outnumber him by a lot. When you engage, you really need speedlots and arbiter/ht can also help.
On November 14 2011 02:01 scarper65 wrote: Don't play the game, it is waaaaaaaayyyyy too hard. I'm a mid masters sc2 player yet I was unable to win more than 1 out of 10 games on iccup.
What? it's normal! I even manage to win 1 out of 80 and stayed in D- for two seasons!
On November 14 2011 04:12 Nemesis wrote: ICCUP is the server most competitive foreigners play on. You can play on it by following the instructions here: http://www.iccup.com/starcraft/sc_start.html
Just note that having antihack is pretty much necessary, and no one will play you if you don't have it.
You might also need to portforward if you are having trouble joining/hosting games.
Oh, and essentially prepare to get owned 99% of your games when you first start. But don't worry with practice, you will eventually start winning. Just search the BW strategy forum for some advice and liquipedia too is kind of helpful.
On November 13 2011 19:21 Rivkeh wrote: How many workers saturate a mineral field/gas? what kind of production per base can I sustain? what other major numbers should I mark down?
Around 25 workers saturate mineral fields on an expansion, and 3 per gas. But generally you don't want to stop production of workers ever(unless you are zerg) so that you can maynard your workers when you expand.
For protoss(since you mentioned you are going protoss), essentially max is up to 4 gates per expansion, but most of the time you want to expand before you reach 4 gates per expansion.
On November 13 2011 19:18 Rivkeh wrote: In PvT, can dragoons be used to delay pushes much in the same way, in SC2, one could use stalkers, or would they just get run down by tank range and vultures? How would one go about delaying a terran push, or do you just need to mosey out of their way and get ready to flank and/or recieve them?
I'm not sure how it works in sc2, but yes you can use dragoons to delay pushes in pvt. What you want to do is just to barely stay out of tank range and force him to keep sieging/unsieging. Dragoons>vulture unless you fall victim to their mines so make sure to always have observers. But you don't really want to engage a terran mech army with pure dragoons unless you outnumber him by a lot. When you engage, you really need speedlots and arbiter/ht can also help.
25 is more of a hunters saturation already-- 2.5 workers per field is full saturation, pros tend to make ~65 workers for late game.
yeah I agree ICCup is hard. I only got to D+ a year back and that was when I was in the tip top skill. Now, I couldn't even win a D game, and D is the league you start out with.
Remember that the general skill level on iCCup is much higher than on Blizzards server, so its going to be tough in the beginning. For reference, C- is like mid/high master. That doesn’t mean that everyone is gosu, in fact there are a lot of lesser skilled players. You start out with a D rank and if you lose games you lose points and will therefore meet weaker opponents. I think I read somewhere that around 2/3 of all players are D and below so you are not alone.
I think the main problem is the game knowledge. I first started out as Zerg and did lots of bullshit on iccup and played maybe 6 games only. Then I read a bit about Protoss and PvP and I got my first win in my first game as Protoss on fish, because I knew what unit composition to go for and so on. Being a mid Master player it wasn't that difficult to focus on Macro so I could concentrate on my Dragoon/Reaver micro.
First off, thanks for the responses, I really appreciate it.
Secondly, thanks for the heads up that I'm going to lose some pride, but don't worry I've already prepared myself for it, just trying to get dragoons to move in the right direction (let alone fight) is enough micro to land you in diamond.
if you think you excel at mechanics bw is a good game for you.... otherwise it's really hard to use cool strategies and play well at the same time, most of the time you will be using your apm to deal with the ui, mining is terrible compared to sc2, rally points don't work in the same way and most of the units are really dumb in getting around the map (goliath or dragoon lol), bw is a cool game tho
On November 14 2011 08:17 Skeggaba wrote: Everyday mechanics training: 1. Get Google Chrome 2. Open 10 interresting tabs 3. Use ctrl 1-0 and read them all, a word at a time in a random order.
GL, always nice with switchers !
haha probably the most creative mechanics exercise i've seen
I dunno how your comprehension will be reading those words in order. :S In all seriousness, I found it helpful to practice my production hotkeys while browsing Team Liquid. My theory is I really shouldn't have to think about where my fingers are hitting on the keyboard.
I don't know if recruitment is frowned upon, but the clan sGs is specifically started for beginning players and has a fair number of SC2 to BW transition players.
It might help for you to watch some high level replays so you can learn what some standard strategies are for each matchup. Since you're playing protoss I'd recommend this player's (Dsaqwe) replay pack right here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=281673, He uses pretty standard build orders for all 3 matchups and there are a ton of games so you can see how he responds to different opponent strategies.
Also, it is completely normal to lose like crazy when first getting started, since like over half of players with "D" displayed ranking are actually D+ level or higher and even many legit D level players have been playing for 2-3 years or so. You really need to have motivation and push yourself to get better. If you want motivation just watch some progamer fpvods on youtube.
So, to any players switching from sc2, glhf and please don't give up! I stopped playing sc2 and started playing bw again recently and there is no greater feeling than winning a long macro game in bw.
EPT
Good luck !
