On October 30 2011 12:04 edc wrote: I understand why BoxeR was so awesome at BW (I saw a montage of some of his most impressive games, and also saw his game against Hiya), but I don't understand why he isn't as great in SC2. He is still very creative, but not groundbreaking. Is this because SC2 is still new?
No boxer was doing crazy shit when BW was a year or so old too. But during that time, he was miles ahead in skill of other people too. Or It may simply be that sc2 doesnt allow him the opportunity to do crazy stuff.
Thanks for the answer.
Also, do most players consider BW to be a perfectly (or almost perfectly) balanced game? What makes it so balanced? For how long was it constantly patched before Blizzard concluded that they couldn't change it anymore, it being so balanced?
On October 30 2011 12:04 edc wrote: I understand why BoxeR was so awesome at BW (I saw a montage of some of his most impressive games, and also saw his game against Hiya), but I don't understand why he isn't as great in SC2. He is still very creative, but not groundbreaking. Is this because SC2 is still new?
No boxer was doing crazy shit when BW was a year or so old too. But during that time, he was miles ahead in skill of other people too. Or It may simply be that sc2 doesnt allow him the opportunity to do crazy stuff.
Thanks for the answer.
Also, do most players consider BW to be a perfectly (or almost perfectly) balanced game? What makes it so balanced? For how long was it constantly patched before Blizzard concluded that they couldn't change it anymore, it being so balanced?
yes they do consider it to be perfectly balanced but not just because of patching,but the maps that are made every season that actually balance the game as we see it now.
the last balance patch was in 2001 I think...yeah 2001,after that all patches were just support patches bug fixing and all that stuff.
On October 30 2011 12:04 edc wrote: I understand why BoxeR was so awesome at BW (I saw a montage of some of his most impressive games, and also saw his game against Hiya), but I don't understand why he isn't as great in SC2. He is still very creative, but not groundbreaking. Is this because SC2 is still new?
No boxer was doing crazy shit when BW was a year or so old too. But during that time, he was miles ahead in skill of other people too. Or It may simply be that sc2 doesnt allow him the opportunity to do crazy stuff.
Thanks for the answer.
Also, do most players consider BW to be a perfectly (or almost perfectly) balanced game? What makes it so balanced? For how long was it constantly patched before Blizzard concluded that they couldn't change it anymore, it being so balanced?
The game is not perfectly balanced. Maps can still swing the game wildly in favor of one race or position over another. If you overlook maps, then yes, we consider the game perfectly balanced. What this means is that once the map has been considered, difficulties or losses in the game are all due to your limitation as a player, not an imbalance.
Blizzard stopped balance patching the game in 2005 I think? The only things I can remember them changing is like...the duration of Corsair Disruption Web...I actually don't remember any of it at all lol. They continued patching the game to fix errors, stability, performance, etc. The last patch I can remember came out in 2009 I think.
On October 30 2011 12:16 edc wrote: Also, do most players consider BW to be a perfectly (or almost perfectly) balanced game? What makes it so balanced? For how long was it constantly patched before Blizzard concluded that they couldn't change it anymore, it being so balanced?
Brood War had exactly three balance patches. They made changes in 1.04, 1.05, and 1.08. In each of those patches there was a fairly large list of changes, but in no other patch and at no other time was any balance change made. SC2's constant patching and adjusting is not anything like BW - not saying it's better or worse, but just different.
On October 29 2011 05:54 imjorman wrote: After watching all of these, I'm starting to understand why you guys care. I don't understand the game, but it looks different - and a good different. And holy bejesus is jaedong awesome. Flash videos are really cool; pretty much any video you guys hav been linked are like wtfwtfwtf awesome :D
Wait 'til the next season starts up and you watch games live.
On October 30 2011 12:36 edc wrote: ONE LAST QUESTION and I will stop badgering you veterans with my questions.
Do any of you find the old graphics of BW appealing? I find them very much so . They have an aged yet smooth and beautiful look IMO.
I really don't notice the graphics anymore. BW is BW. The graphics are dated, sure, but unless you actively compare it to another game, it really doesn't matter. I'm waaay past comparing BW to other games.
The biggest advantage BW graphics have is that everything is very clear and easily visible while still being fully immersive. You never feel like you're not looking at what the game is showing you. You always see a tank shooting at a goon, a ling running towards a marine, etc. It never feels like you're seeing a pixel blob look at something kind of like a tank. That the graphics aren't questionable in that sense is all that really matters as far as their actual look goes.
On October 30 2011 12:36 edc wrote: ONE LAST QUESTION and I will stop badgering you veterans with my questions.
Do any of you find the old graphics of BW appealing? I find them very much so . They have an aged yet smooth and beautiful look IMO.
BW graphics, even in 2011, are amazing because they are simple and fit in an rts. 3D graphics (and the over-lightning everywhere) in an rts just feel wrong but that's obviously just my opinion.
The only thing I would like to see, related to graphics, in BW would be an increased resolution.
On October 30 2011 12:04 edc wrote: I understand why BoxeR was so awesome at BW (I saw a montage of some of his most impressive games, and also saw his game against Hiya), but I don't understand why he isn't as great in SC2. He is still very creative, but not groundbreaking. Is this because SC2 is still new?
i have to say that it is because right from the start, every players' mechanics are too advanced. boxer, with above-average mechanics and his crazy strategies when the game was first released, allowed him to be ahead of everyone else. but when it reached 2004-ish, boxer started to win much much less. by then, progamers have started to be more solid with their mechanics. they had 4 years to see all the different types of cheeses that boxer pulled off, and understood how to counter them. boxer couldn't keep up with the mechanics to play at their level consistently, thus faltering off into nothing more than a icon in the progaming industry. he did show occasional macro prowess, such as vs Magma on Neo Requiem, vs Flash on Python, or vs Calm on Longinus. but he couldn't keep it up on a consistent level, and you know what happens afterwards.
fast forward to his SC2 career. macro and mechanics are easier now, yes. but in SC2, it's just like as though he's been thrown back into post-2004. he has a hard time keeping up, cheeses won't work unless it's beautifully tailored (eg: Reality vs Jaedong on Monte Cristo, Boxer vs Hiya on Blue Storm, Flash vs Bisu on Monty Hall) because the rest of the player pool are so ahead in mechanics. even if boxer manages to pull off some crazy shit in SC2, he can't keep that up forever and cheese every single game. it's sad to admit this, but boxer will never become anything big in SC2.
The gamma for the game is perfect. All the maps are brightly lit and such. There's never some part of the game where it's hard to see a certain unit or so. Always highly visible to the eye.
Just stumbled upon this thread and it made my fucking day. Thanks to all of you who posted the Vods; those were things I absolutely needed to see. Everyone who plays SC2 needs to see this stuff.
On October 30 2011 10:43 NukeTheStars wrote: This thread rules. After all the negative, worthless nonsense I've seen on this site recently, seeing a thread full of pure love is awesome.
As some users said, to get the full picture you'll need to watch some Proleague and OSL when they start back up again. Watch live, if you can. It's fuuuuuun. If you can't catch games live, there are always vods.
kipsate mentioned early on about how nice it is to watch streams of units flow in. two games come into my mind:
1) JulyZerg (yes, that julyzerg) vs BeSt
watch this entire game. the endless stream of units, the crazy storms, the insane macro by both players, even the surprise everyone felt somewhere in the middle of the game when the observer switched screen, only for us to see over a dozen ultralisks and commentators going "whoa... WHOA..." and the audience screaming and gasping in the background... it feels so different from seeing SC2 late game, even though i really enjoyed games like Nestea vs MVP on that 4 player map where MVP just destroyed nestea with defense and ghosts' snipe ability.
2) Flash vs type-b, Flash goes SK Terran build (sort of like pure marine/medivac/raven combination equivalent)
I played a little bit of SC1 vanilla in 1998. I was young, and I was terrible, and I only completed the Terran campaign. I loved the lore, the characters, but the game was difficult and I just wasn't any good at real time strategy games.
I didn't find out about the professional BW scene until around the time people started talking about the StarCraft 2 beta. I had never watched a professional BW game until I started watching beta SC2 matches on youtube.
I have a lot of respect for Brood War and infinite respect for the players who have created this sport. Even if I cannot understand some of the things I see in Brood War videos, it still feels more impressive than anything in SC2 simply because I remember how damn difficult StarCraft was. Brood War feels like the better game, the more difficult game, and sometimes I think everyone would be happier if SC2 was simply an updated version of Brood War with improved pathfinding, UI and graphics.
For those of you that have been on Team Liquid for years, I can imagine how you feel. It must feel like you see nothing but ignorance and disrespect regarding a game and a culture you have loved for a long time. With SC2 has brought a ton of idiots who can't be bothered to respect Brood War or even the commandments of Team Liquid, and that can only deepen the resentment you may already feel.
I know a lot of people who are sticking to Brood War gave SC2 a chance in beta or at release. The mechanics are different and the game felt terrible until things started to be figured out. If you watched professional SC2 in the beginning, all you saw were one base builds and two deathballs smashing into each other until one player loses his army and the game. Honestly, there's still a lot of things that aren't understood about the game - but it's getting better and the game is getting more interesting to spectate.
You don't have to give up Brood War, and anyone saying you need to can go fuck themselves. If Brood War pros really are coming to StarCraft 2, next year might be amazing.
I love both BW and SC2 even though I don't watch Brood War. I hope that everyone one day can do the same.
On October 30 2011 10:43 NukeTheStars wrote: This thread rules. After all the negative, worthless nonsense I've seen on this site recently, seeing a thread full of pure love is awesome.
As some users said, to get the full picture you'll need to watch some Proleague and OSL when they start back up again. Watch live, if you can. It's fuuuuuun. If you can't catch games live, there are always vods.
OMG its nuke! This guy is a hero for BW. If you want some english commentary of the OSL games look no further than his channel on youtube, which is probably one of the last "big" english BW channels that are still active on youtube.
On October 30 2011 10:43 NukeTheStars wrote: This thread rules. After all the negative, worthless nonsense I've seen on this site recently, seeing a thread full of pure love is awesome.
As some users said, to get the full picture you'll need to watch some Proleague and OSL when they start back up again. Watch live, if you can. It's fuuuuuun. If you can't catch games live, there are always vods.
OMG its nuke! This guy is a hero for BW. If you want some english commentary of the OSL games look no further than his channel on youtube, which is probably one of the last "big" english BW channels that are still active on youtube.
Agreed, definitely. A huge reason why I came to enjoy BW games so much were Nuke's commentary and all those fantastic hype videos. He's smart and extremely entertaining. Check out his videos for sure. Keep fighting the good fight, Nuke. Spread that BW love :D <3
EPT
. They have an aged yet smooth and beautiful look IMO.
