On November 01 2011 13:22 sToFu wrote: I'm legitimately curious: why do BW fans hate the addition of SC2 to Proleague? I watch both BW and SC2 and honestly don't mind it at all.
My only objection would be decrease in quality of play for BW matches bc the players practice for SC2, but it'll eventually even out, with some players playing BW exclusively and others SC2.
It's less hate and more "I don't care." Much like Street Fighter or Quake or Sudden Attack. :/ If KeSPA mixed Broodwar and Sudden Attack, I wouldn't watch Sudden Attack. I have no interest in it. Same for SC2.
You are probably not real fan of bw, otherwise you would see the difference if your favorite BW player switches to "boring easymod game" and the only reason is more money poured into the crapper.
I would disagree. SC2 matter about as much to me as Kart Rider or Rise of Nation or any other game.. As long as Brood War's schedule doesn't get negatively affected, and my players don't switch, i see no difference whether they are embraced by Kespa or not. So yea, i share the same opinion with the other guy you quoted aka "I don't care".
You are probably not real fan of bw, otherwise you would see the difference if your favorite BW player switches to "boring easymod game" and the only reason is more money poured into the crapper.
Wtf are you talking about? are you drunk?
Are you saying that if he liked chocolate icecream, Bisu said vanilla was better, and he didn't believe him, he wouldn't be a fan of BW????
I love both games for different reasons. BW, I love it because it's difficult. I never got past D, that's how difficult to me. I love SC2 because it simplifies brood war. It makes use of things that no doubt WOULD have been in BW if they had the technology. No more retarded siege tank AI. No more 12 unit groups. No more wasted actions.
Maybe the BW people will never see SC2 as a replacement for something they loved, but maybe they won't have to. CS 1.6 is still alive and kicking.
It's great that it's simplified, but as a spectator, this stuff doesn't matter at all. I personally don't care how difficult BW is, and I'm sure much of the BW audience also doesn't care. While it's possible to appreciate the pros for their mastery of the mechanics, there is more to BW than that. The players, the game design, the way players win--there is so much magic in BW, but in many cases, people overlook it and attribute many fan's passion for the game simply due to its difficulty.
You are probably not real fan of bw, otherwise you would see the difference if your favorite BW player switches to "boring easymod game" and the only reason is more money poured into the crapper.
Wtf are you talking about? are you drunk?
Are you saying that if he liked chocolate icecream, Bisu said vanilla was better, and he didn't believe him, he wouldn't be a fan of BW????
I love both games for different reasons. BW, I love it because it's difficult. I never got past D, that's how difficult to me. I love SC2 because it simplifies brood war. It makes use of things that no doubt WOULD have been in BW if they had the technology. No more retarded siege tank AI. No more 12 unit groups. No more wasted actions.
Maybe the BW people will never see SC2 as a replacement for something they loved, but maybe they won't have to. CS 1.6 is still alive and kicking.
It's great that it's simplified, but as a spectator, this stuff doesn't matter at all. I personally don't care how difficult BW is, and I'm sure much of the BW audience also doesn't care. While it's possible to appreciate the pros for their mastery of the mechanics, there is more to BW than that. The players, the game design, the way players win--there is so much magic in BW, but in many cases, people overlook it and attribute many fan's passion for the game simply due to its difficulty.
Well, to be honest, I wouldn't find this nowhere as exciting if BW had smartcast.
On October 30 2011 03:21 Anyx wrote: To OP : I think SC2 in proleague would be great for foreing BW community. With SC2 in proleague, a lot of SC2 fans will watch not only SC2 games, but i believe also BW games. With all crazy stuff in BW like hold lurker, scourge cloning, mutalisk stacking, vulture micro/ mines recalls and JangBi-like storms they will be impressed and maybe they will tray play BW too. So SC2 in prolegaue = more new foreing players in BW.
I am an SC2 spectator (and also play the game). I wouldn't play BW (due to UI) but I would watch BW Proleague games if they are featured on TL and in commented in english.
You're missing out on STORMUUUUUUUU and TANKUUUUUU
On November 02 2011 09:06 sCfO20 wrote: Maybe the BW people will never see SC2 as a replacement for something they loved, but maybe they won't have to. CS 1.6 is still alive and kicking.
BW's situation is more alike that of the Quake series. A brilliant game, with the highest learning curve in its genre, yet that same difficulty that gives it beauty at the top level also makes it brutal for novices compared to the newer games with streamlined simplified interfaces and mechanics. CS actually being a pioneer of shooters with simplified mechanics, easily adaptable by masses of casual gamers, hence its unparalleled sustainance as a competitive game in the West.
You are probably not real fan of bw, otherwise you would see the difference if your favorite BW player switches to "boring easymod game" and the only reason is more money poured into the crapper.
Wtf are you talking about? are you drunk?
Are you saying that if he liked chocolate icecream, Bisu said vanilla was better, and he didn't believe him, he wouldn't be a fan of BW????
I love both games for different reasons. BW, I love it because it's difficult. I never got past D, that's how difficult to me. I love SC2 because it simplifies brood war. It makes use of things that no doubt WOULD have been in BW if they had the technology. No more retarded siege tank AI. No more 12 unit groups. No more wasted actions.
Maybe the BW people will never see SC2 as a replacement for something they loved, but maybe they won't have to. CS 1.6 is still alive and kicking.
Do me a favor, please...slap yourself and learn to read. Well i will try to explain it to you in a simple way:
A person likes Brood War. A person likes particular brood war player. This particular player stops playing brood war and switches to a (crappy) game that person doesn't like and watch at all. A person that likes that player is fucking pissed. Do you get it now?
By the way i don't think it will be possible that one player will be competing in both games. It would be very hard to keep up the practice pattern for both.
On October 21 2011 20:36 NeonFlare wrote: SC2 still needs both expansions and some patches to reach to the point BW has, still the meta evolves much faster. BW deserves HD remake to make up for its limited resolution.
Time will tell.
Yeh , i write this all the time , Sc2 is still a baby for a game like this. But i dont think that BW need HD remake.. imo BW deserves movie , normal movie based on BW , whit good actors etc :D
@phyrigian it doesn't do any justice to post the tweeting message in korean, at least translate them so we know what's really happening compared to solely your interpretation of the situation at hand .
On November 06 2011 14:14 Sawamura wrote: @phyrigian it doesn't do any justice to post the tweeting message in korean, at least translate them so we know what's really happening compared to solely your interpretation of the situation at hand .
its not the messages. im not just saying it implies, im saying the bit at the top saying SC1/SC2 progamer.
It will only worry me if the top saying Sc2 progamer only .
On November 06 2011 14:14 Sawamura wrote: @phyrigian it doesn't do any justice to post the tweeting message in korean, at least translate them so we know what's really happening compared to solely your interpretation of the situation at hand .
I threw it through google translate "They look like snow, you dodaeyundameungeogatdang hojunah ㅋ ㅋ" "You're a man tugaewole ㅋ ㅋ" Both at EGPuma. Also Hydras been tweeting at JYP and Puma for a couple of months now so the tweets don't really matter.
On November 06 2011 14:14 Sawamura wrote: @phyrigian it doesn't do any justice to post the tweeting message in korean, at least translate them so we know what's really happening compared to solely your interpretation of the situation at hand .
its not the messages. im not just saying it implies, im saying the bit at the top saying SC1/SC2 progamer.
It will only worry me if the top saying Sc2 progamer only .
I'm not trying to be oppressive, no need to be defensive, lol, im a bw player too :p, im not trying to say proleagues going sc2 for sure, or whatever, just reinforcing assumptions of integration.
I thought he was going to switch to sc2 immediately when you released the news T_T.
On November 06 2011 14:14 Sawamura wrote: @phyrigian it doesn't do any justice to post the tweeting message in korean, at least translate them so we know what's really happening compared to solely your interpretation of the situation at hand .
its not the messages. im not just saying it implies, im saying the bit at the top saying SC1/SC2 progamer.
It will only worry me if the top saying Sc2 progamer only .
There was a bit of a murmur a few days ago where Huk hit a player named "AriA" on the ladder, who seemingly had no idea how a lot of the units worked or how to react to things he scouted, but had mechanics at a level that far surpassed anything any SC2 player has yet done (keeping his queens at low energy despite them not being in sync, making units with the supply an overlord gave before the overlord even finished the birth animation, infestor/overlord micro which had previously only been theorycraft, and even little things like setting the screen hotkeys to all the bases he planned on taking, in order, during the first minute when nothing else is going on). Thus, the theory was that it was an A-list BW progamer, which is the only logical way to marry that good mechanics with that poor a game sense. A player who could do that and know about "archon toilets" or expand timings could dominate. Day[9] did a daily on it.
I imagine that if KeSPA let BW players play SC2, a lot of them would be tempted to go "Hey, I just won Dreamhack, GSL, and an MLG. Looks like the skill level's increasing to the point I'd have to play fulltime to keep up so now me and my $150,000 are going back to BW peace out".
If KeSPA opens up, I don't think and never thought that S-class players will switch permanently. But I think some A-class players will, and that'll drive up the skill level of SC2. But during that period, there'd be a few months where a Flash or Jaedong or Bisu could take a brief sabbatical from BW, win a shitload of money, even for them, and go back to life as normal.
The people we should we be watching are the KeSPA team, since they're the only team that knows anything. It's entirely possible KeSPA literally just wants to manage the existing SC2 scene the leave BW untouched, and everyone's reacting to rumors. I remember a FOMOS article about BW teams playing SC2 where the "Team A" coach complained that no one knew what the hell was going on and didn't want to be left behind.
On November 06 2011 14:14 Sawamura wrote: @phyrigian it doesn't do any justice to post the tweeting message in korean, at least translate them so we know what's really happening compared to solely your interpretation of the situation at hand .
its not the messages. im not just saying it implies, im saying the bit at the top saying SC1/SC2 progamer.
It will only worry me if the top saying Sc2 progamer only .
There was a bit of a murmur a few days ago where Huk hit a player named "AriA" on the ladder, who seemingly had no idea how a lot of the units worked or how to react to things he scouted, but had mechanics at a level that far surpassed anything any SC2 player has yet done (keeping his queens at low energy despite them not being in sync, making units with the supply an overlord gave before the overlord even finished the birth animation, infestor/overlord micro which had previously only been theorycraft, and even little things like setting the screen hotkeys to all the bases he planned on taking, in order, during the first minute when nothing else is going on). Thus, the theory was that it was an A-list BW progamer, which is the only logical way to marry that good mechanics with that poor a game sense. A player who could do that and know about "archon toilets" or expand timings could dominate. Day[9] did a daily on it.
I imagine that if KeSPA let BW players play SC2, a lot of them would be tempted to go "Hey, I just won Dreamhack, GSL, and an MLG. Looks like the skill level's increasing to the point I'd have to play fulltime to keep up so now me and my $150,000 are going back to BW peace out".
If KeSPA opens up, I don't think and never thought that S-class players will switch permanently. But I think some A-class players will, and that'll drive up the skill level of SC2. But during that period, there'd be a few months where a Flash or Jaedong or Bisu could take a brief sabbatical from BW, win a shitload of money, even for them, and go back to life as normal.
The people we should we be watching are the KeSPA team, since they're the only team that knows anything. It's entirely possible KeSPA literally just wants to manage the existing SC2 scene the leave BW untouched, and everyone's reacting to rumors. I remember a FOMOS article about BW teams playing SC2 where the "Team A" coach complained that no one knew what the hell was going on and didn't want to be left behind.
About thhat Aria character, he might not be actually be a BW progamer. A guy from another thread claims to have talked to him.
On November 06 2011 12:43 DeepBlu2 wrote: Some of these players are coming to SC2. Some of those accounts are fake, a lot actually, but that's not to say the actual players don't have accounts. Now, AriA. I briefly managed to talk to AriA for 10-15 minutes. I didn't unfortunately learn a lot so I will try again later, but he said he was a BW amateur.
On November 06 2011 12:43 DeepBlu2 wrote: Some of these players are coming to SC2. Some of those accounts are fake, a lot actually, but that's not to say the actual players don't have accounts. Now, AriA. I briefly managed to talk to AriA for 10-15 minutes. I didn't unfortunately learn a lot so I will try again later, but he said he was a BW amateur.
Hm. Interesting.
Still, it's intriguing to see how much better people's mechanics could be. While I still hate the Elephant in the Room's tacit assumption that BW players are just all-around better and cleaner, I think there's no denying that any A-teamer so inclined could make mad bank in SC2 fairly easily.
Edit: Though we have both Nony and Day[9] on record as saying otherwise.
On November 02 2011 09:06 sCfO20 wrote: Maybe the BW people will never see SC2 as a replacement for something they loved, but maybe they won't have to. CS 1.6 is still alive and kicking.
On November 02 2011 09:06 sCfO20 wrote: Maybe the BW people will never see SC2 as a replacement for something they loved, but maybe they won't have to. CS 1.6 is still alive and kicking.
CS 1.6 is fucking dying, everyone is retiring
People are saying this for years now, and there are still cs 1.6 leagues and tourneys(international) but cs1.6 was always played international so it is hard to compare.
On November 02 2011 09:06 sCfO20 wrote: Maybe the BW people will never see SC2 as a replacement for something they loved, but maybe they won't have to. CS 1.6 is still alive and kicking.
CS 1.6 is fucking dying, everyone is retiring
People are saying this for years now, and there are still cs 1.6 leagues and tourneys(international) but cs1.6 was always played international so it is hard to compare.
there are less tournaments and smaller prices every year. ESL is the only league which is constantly bringing high amounts of price money into cs 1.6, but even these amounts are getting smaller.
so i guess its clear that cs 1.6 is dying, although i still think cs 1.6 is the best fps game ever made
EPT
