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ALLEYCAT BLUES49496 Posts
On October 26 2011 11:48 onedayclose wrote:
If Blizzard and KeSPA cannot come to an agreement on SC2 I see the entire BW scene collapsing.
What?
God no.
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10387 Posts
On October 26 2011 04:07 sunman1g wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 03:48 corumjhaelen wrote:
Pretty big strawman.
What he reproaches to the balance approach is that they are even concerned with low level play to begin with. Dustin Browder's interview with tl is pretty hilarious btw, it's more or less "Yeah, obviously there's a bit of a problem if you're a high level toss in korea, but hey, look what we have accomplished : it's perfectly balanced in EU gold league in exchange".
Anyway, one of the nicest thing about bw is that we don't have balance patches anymore. are you serious ? why do people have to talk trash for no reason? or maybe you don't understand english well enough. it's been said both at the panel and in that interview that the % is close to 50 everywhere (at high levels too, including master and grandmaster) but korea. this means protoss players are doing fine outside of GSL code S and KR gm. recently there has been a PvP final at MLG orlando yet people like you post bullshit all around the forums. yes, i would like to see more P in code S too... but your joke is just stupid and not funny because he obviously was addressing the balance answers in the right way, he never mentioned that he had to sacrifice balance at high level to make it playable for lower leaguers which is what your jokes makes it sound like. get a clue please
winrate is 50% because of the matchmaking system not the balance roflmao
Blizz's balancing approach is a joke. Not intended by design? Fuck waiting to see what happens, patch it out! Say bye bye to muta micro, vulture micro, drone drills, mineral hopping and all the cool stuff that made BW's skill ceiling so high.
The fact they even consider lower level player's opinion on balance is retarded, because if they did then Terran would receive various buffs for the D level players who fail at TvP, which would end up breaking the matchup at higher levels.
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On October 26 2011 14:13 ArvickHero wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 04:07 sunman1g wrote:On October 26 2011 03:48 corumjhaelen wrote:
Pretty big strawman.
What he reproaches to the balance approach is that they are even concerned with low level play to begin with. Dustin Browder's interview with tl is pretty hilarious btw, it's more or less "Yeah, obviously there's a bit of a problem if you're a high level toss in korea, but hey, look what we have accomplished : it's perfectly balanced in EU gold league in exchange".
Anyway, one of the nicest thing about bw is that we don't have balance patches anymore. are you serious ? why do people have to talk trash for no reason? or maybe you don't understand english well enough. it's been said both at the panel and in that interview that the % is close to 50 everywhere (at high levels too, including master and grandmaster) but korea. this means protoss players are doing fine outside of GSL code S and KR gm. recently there has been a PvP final at MLG orlando yet people like you post bullshit all around the forums. yes, i would like to see more P in code S too... but your joke is just stupid and not funny because he obviously was addressing the balance answers in the right way, he never mentioned that he had to sacrifice balance at high level to make it playable for lower leaguers which is what your jokes makes it sound like. get a clue please winrate is 50% because of the matchmaking system not the balance roflmao Blizz's balancing approach is a joke. Not intended by design? Fuck waiting to see what happens, patch it out! Say bye bye to muta micro, vulture micro, drone drills, mineral hopping and all the cool stuff that made BW's skill ceiling so high. The fact they even consider lower level player's opinion on balance is retarded, because if they did then Terran would receive various buffs for the D level players who fail at TvP, which would end up breaking the matchup at higher levels.
There is a pretty convinving argument to be made about this being exactly the case in SC2 currently.
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On October 26 2011 14:13 ArvickHero wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 04:07 sunman1g wrote:On October 26 2011 03:48 corumjhaelen wrote:
Pretty big strawman.
What he reproaches to the balance approach is that they are even concerned with low level play to begin with. Dustin Browder's interview with tl is pretty hilarious btw, it's more or less "Yeah, obviously there's a bit of a problem if you're a high level toss in korea, but hey, look what we have accomplished : it's perfectly balanced in EU gold league in exchange".
Anyway, one of the nicest thing about bw is that we don't have balance patches anymore. are you serious ? why do people have to talk trash for no reason? or maybe you don't understand english well enough. it's been said both at the panel and in that interview that the % is close to 50 everywhere (at high levels too, including master and grandmaster) but korea. this means protoss players are doing fine outside of GSL code S and KR gm. recently there has been a PvP final at MLG orlando yet people like you post bullshit all around the forums. yes, i would like to see more P in code S too... but your joke is just stupid and not funny because he obviously was addressing the balance answers in the right way, he never mentioned that he had to sacrifice balance at high level to make it playable for lower leaguers which is what your jokes makes it sound like. get a clue please winrate is 50% because of the matchmaking system not the balance roflmao Blizz's balancing approach is a joke. Not intended by design? Fuck waiting to see what happens, patch it out! Say bye bye to muta micro, vulture micro, drone drills, mineral hopping and all the cool stuff that made BW's skill ceiling so high. The fact they even consider lower level player's opinion on balance is retarded, because if they did then Terran would receive various buffs for the D level players who fail at TvP, which would end up breaking the matchup at higher levels.
Its not gone, its in BW. You can play BW and not SC2 if thats what you want. I am happy with the fact we have 2 more expansions and that over the last year the game has consistently improved. Its not going to be SC2:BW. Its not going to be different, for better or worse. Stop waiting for the BW patch to SC2. Its not coming. Make due with what we have and try to push the game as hard as BW fans pushed BW. SC2 will develop its own skills, its own glitches, and its own tactics.
You want to complain SC2 is not BW? Better start complaining apples are not oranges while your at it.
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HOLY SHIT THIS THREAD TURNED INTO A BW VS SC2 ARGUMENT?!!?!??!? WTF NO WAY
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On October 26 2011 15:42 dySpHoRia. wrote:
HOLY SHIT THIS THREAD TURNED INTO A BW VS SC2 ARGUMENT?!!?!??!? WTF NO WAY
haha just let em be man.
I have to just say that if you like BW, please play it. Stop paying out SC2 and saying its not as hard, please
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On October 26 2011 15:27 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 14:13 ArvickHero wrote:On October 26 2011 04:07 sunman1g wrote:On October 26 2011 03:48 corumjhaelen wrote:
Pretty big strawman.
What he reproaches to the balance approach is that they are even concerned with low level play to begin with. Dustin Browder's interview with tl is pretty hilarious btw, it's more or less "Yeah, obviously there's a bit of a problem if you're a high level toss in korea, but hey, look what we have accomplished : it's perfectly balanced in EU gold league in exchange".
Anyway, one of the nicest thing about bw is that we don't have balance patches anymore. are you serious ? why do people have to talk trash for no reason? or maybe you don't understand english well enough. it's been said both at the panel and in that interview that the % is close to 50 everywhere (at high levels too, including master and grandmaster) but korea. this means protoss players are doing fine outside of GSL code S and KR gm. recently there has been a PvP final at MLG orlando yet people like you post bullshit all around the forums. yes, i would like to see more P in code S too... but your joke is just stupid and not funny because he obviously was addressing the balance answers in the right way, he never mentioned that he had to sacrifice balance at high level to make it playable for lower leaguers which is what your jokes makes it sound like. get a clue please winrate is 50% because of the matchmaking system not the balance roflmao Blizz's balancing approach is a joke. Not intended by design? Fuck waiting to see what happens, patch it out! Say bye bye to muta micro, vulture micro, drone drills, mineral hopping and all the cool stuff that made BW's skill ceiling so high. The fact they even consider lower level player's opinion on balance is retarded, because if they did then Terran would receive various buffs for the D level players who fail at TvP, which would end up breaking the matchup at higher levels. Its not gone, its in BW. You can play BW and not SC2 if thats what you want. I am happy with the fact we have 2 more expansions and that over the last year the game has consistently improved. Its not going to be SC2:BW. Its not going to be different, for better or worse. Stop waiting for the BW patch to SC2. Its not coming. Make due with what we have and try to push the game as hard as BW fans pushed BW. SC2 will develop its own skills, its own glitches, and its own tactics. You want to complain SC2 is not BW? Better start complaining apples are not oranges while your at it.
Way to miss the point. Theres nothing in that post about wanting SC2 to be BW.
It was a criticism about Blizzard's patching mindset. Selling out to casuals who don't have the skill to effectively use certain units and methodically removing them is stupid. Lets reduce the 3-point line distance in the NBA because there are some kids who can't shoot the distance in primary school.
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This must be the worst news lately. They really want to pick up the shiny checkers for kids. I guess the business/money winning again. I still don't understand what do people find amusing on watching SC2. I tried to watch it many times, but i can't stand more than 2-3 games in a row until i get bored to death.
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On October 26 2011 16:48 ShadeR wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 15:27 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On October 26 2011 14:13 ArvickHero wrote:On October 26 2011 04:07 sunman1g wrote:On October 26 2011 03:48 corumjhaelen wrote:
Pretty big strawman.
What he reproaches to the balance approach is that they are even concerned with low level play to begin with. Dustin Browder's interview with tl is pretty hilarious btw, it's more or less "Yeah, obviously there's a bit of a problem if you're a high level toss in korea, but hey, look what we have accomplished : it's perfectly balanced in EU gold league in exchange".
Anyway, one of the nicest thing about bw is that we don't have balance patches anymore. are you serious ? why do people have to talk trash for no reason? or maybe you don't understand english well enough. it's been said both at the panel and in that interview that the % is close to 50 everywhere (at high levels too, including master and grandmaster) but korea. this means protoss players are doing fine outside of GSL code S and KR gm. recently there has been a PvP final at MLG orlando yet people like you post bullshit all around the forums. yes, i would like to see more P in code S too... but your joke is just stupid and not funny because he obviously was addressing the balance answers in the right way, he never mentioned that he had to sacrifice balance at high level to make it playable for lower leaguers which is what your jokes makes it sound like. get a clue please winrate is 50% because of the matchmaking system not the balance roflmao Blizz's balancing approach is a joke. Not intended by design? Fuck waiting to see what happens, patch it out! Say bye bye to muta micro, vulture micro, drone drills, mineral hopping and all the cool stuff that made BW's skill ceiling so high. The fact they even consider lower level player's opinion on balance is retarded, because if they did then Terran would receive various buffs for the D level players who fail at TvP, which would end up breaking the matchup at higher levels. Its not gone, its in BW. You can play BW and not SC2 if thats what you want. I am happy with the fact we have 2 more expansions and that over the last year the game has consistently improved. Its not going to be SC2:BW. Its not going to be different, for better or worse. Stop waiting for the BW patch to SC2. Its not coming. Make due with what we have and try to push the game as hard as BW fans pushed BW. SC2 will develop its own skills, its own glitches, and its own tactics. You want to complain SC2 is not BW? Better start complaining apples are not oranges while your at it. Way to miss the point. Theres nothing in that post about wanting SC2 to be BW. It was a criticism about Blizzard's patching mindset. Selling out to casuals who don't have the skill to effectively use certain units and methodically removing them is stupid. Lets reduce the 3-point line distance in the NBA because there are some kids who can't shoot the distance in primary school.
You want them to take a BW-type patching stance. And when legacy of the void comes out, yeah. But right now its more important to create a balanced and yet diversified game for a self-perpetuating metagame to grow. Its not like they are patching against the will the community.
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probably don't know enough to actually comment here I guess
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On October 26 2011 14:13 ArvickHero wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 04:07 sunman1g wrote:On October 26 2011 03:48 corumjhaelen wrote:
Pretty big strawman.
What he reproaches to the balance approach is that they are even concerned with low level play to begin with. Dustin Browder's interview with tl is pretty hilarious btw, it's more or less "Yeah, obviously there's a bit of a problem if you're a high level toss in korea, but hey, look what we have accomplished : it's perfectly balanced in EU gold league in exchange".
Anyway, one of the nicest thing about bw is that we don't have balance patches anymore. are you serious ? why do people have to talk trash for no reason? or maybe you don't understand english well enough. it's been said both at the panel and in that interview that the % is close to 50 everywhere (at high levels too, including master and grandmaster) but korea. this means protoss players are doing fine outside of GSL code S and KR gm. recently there has been a PvP final at MLG orlando yet people like you post bullshit all around the forums. yes, i would like to see more P in code S too... but your joke is just stupid and not funny because he obviously was addressing the balance answers in the right way, he never mentioned that he had to sacrifice balance at high level to make it playable for lower leaguers which is what your jokes makes it sound like. get a clue please winrate is 50% because of the matchmaking system not the balance roflmao Blizz's balancing approach is a joke. Not intended by design? Fuck waiting to see what happens, patch it out! Say bye bye to muta micro, vulture micro, drone drills, mineral hopping and all the cool stuff that made BW's skill ceiling so high. The fact they even consider lower level player's opinion on balance is retarded, because if they did then Terran would receive various buffs for the D level players who fail at TvP, which would end up breaking the matchup at higher levels.
Yea, i ll be damned surprised if the match-making system doesnt make win-rate auto ~50% throughout the board, nevermind any balance patches. Winning? We ll keep matching you against better guys till u lose. Losing? We ll keep matching you vs worse and worse scrubs till you win. Clearly a system that ensure ~50% for any match-ups at most skill levels (other than the top).
And seriously, who the crap "balance" a game for people who doesn't have a clue what they are doing? Balancing should only be done at the absolute top level, the rest of the people just need to learn to play >.<.
Purely reiterating some said points, but i needed to get it out of my system :p.
@bRiz
Blizz didn't balance jacksh*t for BW... It was mainly the Koreans who balance it. Though i heard they are nerfing Toss pretty hard next season, i hope that change >.< My Bisu 
Edit: Notice that you are in the Brood War forums.
Edit2: Actually after reading through all of your post, i notice so many things wrong with it that i think it is a lost cause to explain anything to you. Maybe you can read around a bit before posting the next time.
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On October 26 2011 17:51 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 16:48 ShadeR wrote:On October 26 2011 15:27 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On October 26 2011 14:13 ArvickHero wrote:On October 26 2011 04:07 sunman1g wrote:On October 26 2011 03:48 corumjhaelen wrote:
Pretty big strawman.
What he reproaches to the balance approach is that they are even concerned with low level play to begin with. Dustin Browder's interview with tl is pretty hilarious btw, it's more or less "Yeah, obviously there's a bit of a problem if you're a high level toss in korea, but hey, look what we have accomplished : it's perfectly balanced in EU gold league in exchange".
Anyway, one of the nicest thing about bw is that we don't have balance patches anymore. are you serious ? why do people have to talk trash for no reason? or maybe you don't understand english well enough. it's been said both at the panel and in that interview that the % is close to 50 everywhere (at high levels too, including master and grandmaster) but korea. this means protoss players are doing fine outside of GSL code S and KR gm. recently there has been a PvP final at MLG orlando yet people like you post bullshit all around the forums. yes, i would like to see more P in code S too... but your joke is just stupid and not funny because he obviously was addressing the balance answers in the right way, he never mentioned that he had to sacrifice balance at high level to make it playable for lower leaguers which is what your jokes makes it sound like. get a clue please winrate is 50% because of the matchmaking system not the balance roflmao Blizz's balancing approach is a joke. Not intended by design? Fuck waiting to see what happens, patch it out! Say bye bye to muta micro, vulture micro, drone drills, mineral hopping and all the cool stuff that made BW's skill ceiling so high. The fact they even consider lower level player's opinion on balance is retarded, because if they did then Terran would receive various buffs for the D level players who fail at TvP, which would end up breaking the matchup at higher levels. Its not gone, its in BW. You can play BW and not SC2 if thats what you want. I am happy with the fact we have 2 more expansions and that over the last year the game has consistently improved. Its not going to be SC2:BW. Its not going to be different, for better or worse. Stop waiting for the BW patch to SC2. Its not coming. Make due with what we have and try to push the game as hard as BW fans pushed BW. SC2 will develop its own skills, its own glitches, and its own tactics. You want to complain SC2 is not BW? Better start complaining apples are not oranges while your at it. Way to miss the point. Theres nothing in that post about wanting SC2 to be BW. It was a criticism about Blizzard's patching mindset. Selling out to casuals who don't have the skill to effectively use certain units and methodically removing them is stupid. Lets reduce the 3-point line distance in the NBA because there are some kids who can't shoot the distance in primary school. You want they too take a BW-type patching stance. And when legacy of the void comes out, yeah. But right now its more important to create a balanced and yet diversified game for a self-perpetuating metagame to grow. Its not like they are patching against the will the community.
I'm not sure i understand what your saying or where you are going... Your post has literally nothing to do with mine i wonder why u quoted me 0.O.
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I thought the BW community was a lot more respectful before reading this thread. You cry when people say they hope BW dies already but you act like its fine to say how shitty and boring SC2 is and how everyone should like BW more than sc2. If you want people to respect BW maybe you should respect SC2.
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if blizzard is balancing a game because a bunch of chobos can't micro properly, then blizzard is wrong...
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After reading the op and then reading the comments, many of the comments arent relevant to the op and so will my post.
I play broodwar for a very long time. I played warcraft 3 a bit on and off and tried out sc2 for a week when it was released. I personally prefer starcraft bw more because thats what im more familiar with, don't get me wrong, i'm sure starcraft 2 has touched many people and has a huge backing but I find its like warcraft 3, They are amazing games but I wouldn't want to play it continuously because it dosent intrigue me as much. Mainly because I don't feel I have that extra edge over my opponent in terms of just playing like a mindless machine, making depots, rallying factory, producing scv non-stop,
Simply Put: BW Interface. Thats why i enjoy watching progamers play because they mastered the Interface of this rigged game, (rigged meaning not user friendly by todays standards)
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On October 26 2011 18:19 ShadeR wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 17:51 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On October 26 2011 16:48 ShadeR wrote:On October 26 2011 15:27 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On October 26 2011 14:13 ArvickHero wrote:On October 26 2011 04:07 sunman1g wrote:On October 26 2011 03:48 corumjhaelen wrote:
Pretty big strawman.
What he reproaches to the balance approach is that they are even concerned with low level play to begin with. Dustin Browder's interview with tl is pretty hilarious btw, it's more or less "Yeah, obviously there's a bit of a problem if you're a high level toss in korea, but hey, look what we have accomplished : it's perfectly balanced in EU gold league in exchange".
Anyway, one of the nicest thing about bw is that we don't have balance patches anymore. are you serious ? why do people have to talk trash for no reason? or maybe you don't understand english well enough. it's been said both at the panel and in that interview that the % is close to 50 everywhere (at high levels too, including master and grandmaster) but korea. this means protoss players are doing fine outside of GSL code S and KR gm. recently there has been a PvP final at MLG orlando yet people like you post bullshit all around the forums. yes, i would like to see more P in code S too... but your joke is just stupid and not funny because he obviously was addressing the balance answers in the right way, he never mentioned that he had to sacrifice balance at high level to make it playable for lower leaguers which is what your jokes makes it sound like. get a clue please winrate is 50% because of the matchmaking system not the balance roflmao Blizz's balancing approach is a joke. Not intended by design? Fuck waiting to see what happens, patch it out! Say bye bye to muta micro, vulture micro, drone drills, mineral hopping and all the cool stuff that made BW's skill ceiling so high. The fact they even consider lower level player's opinion on balance is retarded, because if they did then Terran would receive various buffs for the D level players who fail at TvP, which would end up breaking the matchup at higher levels. Its not gone, its in BW. You can play BW and not SC2 if thats what you want. I am happy with the fact we have 2 more expansions and that over the last year the game has consistently improved. Its not going to be SC2:BW. Its not going to be different, for better or worse. Stop waiting for the BW patch to SC2. Its not coming. Make due with what we have and try to push the game as hard as BW fans pushed BW. SC2 will develop its own skills, its own glitches, and its own tactics. You want to complain SC2 is not BW? Better start complaining apples are not oranges while your at it. Way to miss the point. Theres nothing in that post about wanting SC2 to be BW. It was a criticism about Blizzard's patching mindset. Selling out to casuals who don't have the skill to effectively use certain units and methodically removing them is stupid. Lets reduce the 3-point line distance in the NBA because there are some kids who can't shoot the distance in primary school. You want they too take a BW-type patching stance. And when legacy of the void comes out, yeah. But right now its more important to create a balanced and yet diversified game for a self-perpetuating metagame to grow. Its not like they are patching against the will the community. I'm not sure i understand what your saying or where you are going... Your post has literally nothing to do with mine i wonder why u quoted me 0.O.
I would also like to add that with the constant patching, the Metagame isn't really growing per se, more like getting tossed around randomly at the whim of the developer. >.< Theres not much possibility of "growing" anywhere when the foundation upon which you are rooted get smashed every so often.
@mewby
You are in the Brood War forum, it should be reasonable to expect people to prefer Brood War over other games, and some would, naturally, voice this opinion. If you want to hear people piling heaps upon heaps of praise on Blizzard, i suggest you move to Sc2 forum.
Hopefully this wont be viewed as a personal attack, but you aren't the first guy who came into this section of TL saying "I used to think BW people is <insert cool quality> until i read this thread, im so thoroughly disappointed." I don't care what you tried to gain by saying those, but i feel entitled to say something is bad when i think it's bad (most of those opinions were actually rather informed, backed with good reasonings and i dont remember any being outragously offensive). At least i don't go onto Sc2 forum and smash that opinion on your face. Feel free to discuss BW's imminent death on your Sc2 haven.
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On October 26 2011 02:13 ArvickHero wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 19:24 hellbound wrote:On October 25 2011 13:22 chongu wrote:On October 25 2011 13:11 nalgene wrote:
There is a street fighter game that was remade with higher resolution textures at some point ( but it looked like they made changes to the game though... but they could have just kept everything the same but with only aesthetic changes... ) shouldn't be too hard to do the same for bw either... And some minor balance fixes and online capabilities. Pretty sure they've tossed ideas about making a HD version of BW hahaha. But definitely not soon enough to see it on TV/streams anymore ;_; Less graphics discussions please. I like my video games with edgy squares : P  please, don't go there. ohohohhohoho I can see it now .. Zealot build time nerf because 2gate proxy too strong at the D level, Barracks requires supply depot because proxy rax bunker rush too hard to defend at the D level, Siege Tank nerfed and marines buffed because more unit diversity is wanted in TvP, DT build time increased by 30 seconds because DT rush too strong at the D level THE POSSIBILITES ARE ENDLESS WITH BROWDER REBALANCING BW
Marauders
+ Show Spoiler +
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On October 26 2011 18:27 mewby wrote:
I thought the BW community was a lot more respectful before reading this thread. You cry when people say they hope BW dies already but you act like its fine to say how shitty and boring SC2 is and how everyone should like BW more than sc2. If you want people to respect BW maybe you should respect SC2.
There's a massive difference between wanting a game and its community to die out and having an opinion that another game just isn't good enough. -_-
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On October 26 2011 19:14 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 18:27 mewby wrote:
I thought the BW community was a lot more respectful before reading this thread. You cry when people say they hope BW dies already but you act like its fine to say how shitty and boring SC2 is and how everyone should like BW more than sc2. If you want people to respect BW maybe you should respect SC2. There's a massive difference between wanting a game and its community to die out and having an opinion that another game just isn't good enough. -_-
and BW Guys dont randomly go on SC2 forums and go "LOL UR GAME SUCKS"
While SC2 guys just come 2 the BW forums and say "*insert random pro* switch plz OGMGOMGMOGMOG" or "BW die already. had a good run but its time to move on".
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United States7639 Posts
On October 26 2011 18:27 mewby wrote:
I thought the BW community was a lot more respectful before reading this thread. You cry when people say they hope BW dies already but you act like its fine to say how shitty and boring SC2 is and how everyone should like BW more than sc2. If you want people to respect BW maybe you should respect SC2.
I definitely don't agree with people who go out of their way to insult SC2, but seriously? This is the BW forums. You don't come into a BW thread and say shit like "herp derp bw is dead" "all your players are switching to sc2" and then expect BW fans to be anything less than defensive, if not nasty. Get your cause and effect straightened out. I've never seen BW fans specifically go into SC2 threads to talk shit about it. But if it happens, then yes, they certainly deserve to be banned.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/IIffG.png)
