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SC2 in Proleague? - Page 39

Forum Index > BW General
1399 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 37 38 39 40 41 70 Next
ChriS-X
Profile Joined June 2011
Malaysia1374 Posts
October 20 2011 06:15 GMT
#761


User was warned for this post
djbhINDI
Profile Joined June 2011
United States372 Posts
October 20 2011 06:15 GMT
#762
I just don't think this is going to turn out well. How will Proleague be? SC and then SC2 teams? It seems there will be a lot of logistics issues, as well as half the crowd changing between the different sports. Ofc, I don't know how big the SC2 scene in Korea is.
You can't emphasize enough how much you need to be a paradigm shifter. - Savior
domane
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Canada1606 Posts
October 20 2011 06:18 GMT
#763
I doubt another a second SC2 team league (competing against GSTL) that involves only KeSPA teams would be successful. They would need several top BW players to switch over.

On October 20 2011 09:25 baubo wrote:
SC1 will keep its prime-time slots, as it's obviously the most popular spectator e-sport in Korea. SC2 will play 2nd banana for now while OGN gauge its ratings. The future of both sports will depend, again, on ratings. If OGN and Kespa find more money in SC2, they'll switch. But before then, BW is still the cash cow. Even a diminishing BW scene is much larger than SC2 right now.

... if BW fails too quickly, the transition to SC2 from fans may not happen in South Korea. But if SC2 is given time to get tweaked and become stable(perhaps after all 3 games have been released), then it could be a smooth transition from BW to SC2.
chogoling
Profile Joined April 2009
Australia173 Posts
October 20 2011 06:26 GMT
#764
On October 20 2011 15:15 djbhINDI wrote:
I just don't think this is going to turn out well. How will Proleague be? SC and then SC2 teams? It seems there will be a lot of logistics issues, as well as half the crowd changing between the different sports. Ofc, I don't know how big the SC2 scene in Korea is.


It will probably work the same way the Special Force proleague works and there aren't many issues with that.
[TA] Terror Australis
Fanatic-Templar
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada5819 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-20 06:30:34
October 20 2011 06:27 GMT
#765
On October 20 2011 14:35 Pelopidas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 20 2011 07:48 Captain Peabody wrote:
On October 20 2011 06:01 Pelopidas wrote:
I played SC2 for a while but stopped once I realized that Blizzard was more concerned with the way casuals view the game than the actual game play experience. Now it seems that something I tried to get away from has chased me to my last refuge, and set it on fire. I just want BW to be left alone. Why is it so important that BW players switch to SC2? Why can't you SC2 fans just be happy that you get constant coverage of games from players all over the world?

It really irritates me that Blizzard has managed to astroturf a commercialized imitation of the eSports scene that sprung up spontaneously in Korea. By funding huge prize pools, and by using the name Starcraft, Blizzard managed to have the entire noncompetitive foreigner scene, many B teamers, and washed up pros switch to SC2. In my opinion many fans were duped into feeling like they were participating in something like the early days of Brood War, like they were blazing a trail for an eSports scene in the west. Instead it feels as if Blizzard is using the scene as a gigantic advertisement to sell more copies of SC2, while collecting a large percentage of tournament profits on the side. Blizzard, in attempt to parallel the way they were able to dominate the MMO genre with WoW, has created an RTS with its edges worn off, and have enriched their coffers, while gaining publicity, and recognition, with a competitive scene that attempts to parrot.

To me the game is far too different from Brood War to be its true successor. Even so, I would be willing to accept and tolerate it as long as Brood War was left alone. Now, however, Blizzards tendrils have started to touch something I hold dear, I don't know what to do. It seems I am forced to sit idle while something I enjoy is torn apart in the name of Activision-Blizzard's bottom line.

Are you kidding me? You're actually trying to pretend that it's BLIZZARD that is creating the Western e-sports scene, that they're just 'astroturfing' a fake scene? Blizzard has barely been keeping up with things; it's been the many, many sponsors, the many dedicated fans, and the many dedicated community figures like Day9, Artosis, Tasteless, Husky, and the like, who have built and continue to build the modern SC2 e-sports scene. Blizzard has barely lifted a finger.

Now, with the Korean scene, you at least have a digit to stand on, since Blizzard seems to have subsidized GOM, at least at first; but even there, GOM has done 95% of the work, and the fans and the players have worked and dedicated their hearts out to make it successful.

See, this is where I get a little bit angry. I don't mind when BW fans (among which I definitely count myself) say that BW is a better game than SC2. I don't really mind (though I think it's stupid and wrong) when they say that Blizzard is greedy and doesn't care about e-sports. But when you go and insult the sweat, passion, hard work, and dedication of millions of fans, players, casters, sponsors, and organizers...well, kark that.

If this is what it means to support BW, then you can count me out. I enjoy both games. If you don't like one, then fine, don't watch it. But don't you dare slander the fans on the other side.

That goes for you too, "I want BW to die" people.


Without Blizzard pumping money into GOM, SC2 would be no where near it is today. It would have been very difficult to operate a high profile tournament in Korea with SC2s poor reception. With many pros no longer able to compete in the increasingly competitive world of Brood War, a large prize pool, and an easier game would obviously draw converts regardless of actual game quality or watchability. Without Blizzard's infusion into the GSL, SC2 would not be where it is today in the foreigner scene. The GSL is the worlds most high profile SC2 tournament, and believe it or not very foreigner oriented, with its English casts, and its foreigner players. It also provides a great deal of prestige, with its Starleague like atmosphere and the image of professionalism to the SC2 scene as a whole.

Without the GSL being kept on life support by Blizzard, SC2 would never have achieved any type of prime time atmosphere, it would remain one game among many. Another Dawn of War, or LoL to be played at marathon Lans with low level players who never push its boundaries to any extent, if those boundaries are even capable of being pushed. Aside from GOM, we can't forget NASL, its large prize pool and its mystery sponsor (Blizzard). Without GSL, its adequate but not extraordinary pros, and the prestige that comes with being a "genuine" Korean eSport, there is absolutely no way that there could be any challenge to Brood War's throne, or even a foreigner scene with any degree of sustainability.

To their credit, Blizzard did a good job at marketing SC2. The name of Starcraft, carrying with it fond memories of Brood War from a decade ago would have been enough for reasonable success. Add in a highly hyped beta, with people hungry for any scraps of media, a game years in development, compounded with faint whisperings of a pro scene populated with mystical Koreans, and a foreign community eager for the glory denied to them by the invincible robotic koreans, and tournaments were bound to crop up. Sponsors would be eager to cash in on the prestige of a game called Starcraft regardless of its actual quality. With even the Koreans coming on board with the Blizzard spawned GSL, why wouldn't fans jump on the bandwagon. It doesn't matter if they don't know who Jangbi and Hydra are, ZergBong, and Iron are just as good right? I hear they played Flash in practice once that obviously makes them Starleague material.


You say that in a derogatory fashion. Nothing can be detached from its circumstances. For example, had StarCraft: Brood War's popularity not coincided with the Asian financial crisis, Brood War might never have achieved any type of prime time atmosphere, it too could have remained one game among many. It sounds like you are blaming StarCraft II for achieving by design what Brood War achieved by chance. Which is something I don't quite understand. Is it not the results that matter?
I bear this sig to commemorate the loss of the team icon that commemorated Oversky's 2008-2009 Proleague Round 1 performance.
Chargelot
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
2275 Posts
October 20 2011 06:44 GMT
#766
I like this idea, but how come there are so many positive reactions to SC2 now that KeSPA isn't trying to ensure its demise? Hasn't this idea been brought up by some SC2 passerby or 30 who were then repeatedly and metaphorically beaten into a bloody pulp and banned?
if (post == "stupid") { document.getElementById('post').style.display = 'none'; }
thepuppyassassin
Profile Joined April 2011
900 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-20 06:56:10
October 20 2011 06:55 GMT
#767
This all happened because Flash heard MVP was going to make 100k in a single day.

"Nuh-uh" said Flash. "That's way too much money for a nub"

called up Kespa and was like "Hey, it's me... You know why I'm calling... Take care of it."
Jacopana
Profile Joined September 2009
El Salvador210 Posts
October 20 2011 07:03 GMT
#768
shit got serios here! what a great new, so thats why jd, bisu, fantasy and jangbi are coming... hehehe
Gamegene
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States8308 Posts
October 20 2011 07:18 GMT
#769
rofl people thinking A teamers and top players like Flash are going to play.

They just hear their names on SOTG and think that they're good players who will be awesome at SC2. That's all they care about, they don't even bother to watch them in their natural setting.
Throw on your favorite jacket and you're good to roll. Stroll through the trees and let your miseries go.
firehand101
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Australia3152 Posts
October 20 2011 07:23 GMT
#770
Flash please come over, please we need you!
The opinions expressed by our users do not reflect the official position of TeamLiquid.net or its staff.
Ikonn
Profile Joined October 2009
Netherlands1958 Posts
October 20 2011 07:23 GMT
#771
On October 20 2011 14:27 Za7oX wrote:
Not trying to troll. Just an honest question

Let's say a few years or more from now, Kespa drops BW and go's with solely SC2. Will the BW elitist that say SC2 is for idiots/boring game/bad design/no skill, decide to start watching or will you just stick with BW VoD's because SC2 is soo unbearable


I'd go down with the ship (as in I'd stop watching pro gaming, as BW is the only game I like to watch anyway. Maybe dota 2? idk)
thepuppyassassin
Profile Joined April 2011
900 Posts
October 20 2011 07:26 GMT
#772
On October 20 2011 16:18 Gamegene wrote:
rofl people thinking A teamers and top players like Flash are going to play.

They just hear their names on SOTG and think that they're good players who will be awesome at SC2. That's all they care about, they don't even bother to watch them in their natural setting.



Too true. I think most A teamers migrated from the Galapagos Islands.
Jenia6109
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Russian Federation1613 Posts
October 20 2011 07:31 GMT
#773
So, does this news mean that (T)MVP, (T)GanZi, (Z)ZergBong, (T)Iron, (T)SaiR and the others will return to BW?
INnoVation TY Maru | Classic Stats Dear sOs Zest herO | Rogue Dark soO
ProxyResearch
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Poland16 Posts
October 20 2011 07:35 GMT
#774
This would be so awesome... I hope. Don't want to say it has to be connected to the appearance of some BW pros at Blizzcon but it certainly would be cool if that was the case.
man and machine, power xtreme!
Chargelot
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
2275 Posts
October 20 2011 07:36 GMT
#775
On October 20 2011 16:31 Jenia6109 wrote:
So, does this news mean that (T)MVP, (T)GanZi, (Z)ZergBong, (T)Iron, (T)SaiR and the others will return to BW?


I couldn't imagine that it's likely. They've all gone a very far way in SC2, and I feel like you have to pick one and dedicate yourself.
if (post == "stupid") { document.getElementById('post').style.display = 'none'; }
raga4ka
Profile Joined February 2008
Bulgaria5679 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-20 07:48:58
October 20 2011 07:37 GMT
#776
I am all for a SC2 divison in PL like that Special Force game , but only if the players still have to pass the BW courage tournament to get a progaming licence to play on a team . It would be a good measurement for skill so that the scene will be fairly professional , that and probably only code - S winners from GSL can get a progaming licence from Kespa , after all i don't want PL to become an amaturish league , and remain a professional sport .
mansa
Profile Joined May 2011
Philippines336 Posts
October 20 2011 07:38 GMT
#777
BW and SC2 are two different games enough that the best player in BW might suck at SC2. :D
FuRRyChoBo
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States218 Posts
October 20 2011 07:38 GMT
#778
On October 20 2011 16:31 Jenia6109 wrote:
So, does this news mean that (T)MVP, (T)GanZi, (Z)ZergBong, (T)Iron, (T)SaiR and the others will return to BW?


They might play for fun, but BW is so much more mechanically demanding than SC2 that I doubt prolonged exposure to an "easier" game would result in them having solid mechanics for BW. I don't mean to start an argument over the games by saying that; just pointing obvious things like limited unit selection, requiring selection of individual units to cast spells individually, etc.
Chargelot
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
2275 Posts
October 20 2011 07:47 GMT
#779
On October 20 2011 16:38 FuRRyChoBo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 20 2011 16:31 Jenia6109 wrote:
So, does this news mean that (T)MVP, (T)GanZi, (Z)ZergBong, (T)Iron, (T)SaiR and the others will return to BW?


They might play for fun, but BW is so much more mechanically demanding than SC2 that I doubt prolonged exposure to an "easier" game would result in them having solid mechanics for BW. I don't mean to start an argument over the games by saying that; just pointing obvious things like limited unit selection, requiring selection of individual units to cast spells individually, etc.


It's different than you're portraying it.
In BW you have to perform complex actions using a very limited system. Imagine trying to drive a car which had half of a steering wheel and only one awkwardly combined gas and brake pedal. Driving that car professionally would be very difficult.

In SC2, you have to perform equally as complex actions using a very available system. Perhaps too many options exist. Imagine driving a car with 3 steering wheels which operated independently of each other and all had unique and necessary uses.

They both require an extreme amount of skill at the top levels, while SC2 simply allows for an easier time in the bottom levels. BW was extremely difficult for low level players, and moving up in your ranking meant a lot more. But at the end of the day, the top 5% of each are on an almost equal level, I would like to think.
if (post == "stupid") { document.getElementById('post').style.display = 'none'; }
Oktyabr
Profile Joined July 2011
Singapore2234 Posts
October 20 2011 07:54 GMT
#780
On October 20 2011 16:31 Jenia6109 wrote:
So, does this news mean that (T)MVP, (T)GanZi, (Z)ZergBong, (T)Iron, (T)SaiR and the others will return to BW?


Highly doubt so, and it's for the very same reason why the established giants in BW won't switch over. They're having so much success in whatever they're doing now, there is no incentive to switch.
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