On October 20 2011 16:31 Jenia6109 wrote: So, does this news mean that MVP, GanZi, ZergBong, Iron, SaiR and the others will return to BW?
They might play for fun, but BW is so much more mechanically demanding than SC2 that I doubt prolonged exposure to an "easier" game would result in them having solid mechanics for BW. I don't mean to start an argument over the games by saying that; just pointing obvious things like limited unit selection, requiring selection of individual units to cast spells individually, etc.
It's different than you're portraying it. In BW you have to perform complex actions using a very limited system. Imagine trying to drive a car which had half of a steering wheel and only one awkwardly combined gas and brake pedal. Driving that car professionally would be very difficult.
In SC2, you have to perform equally as complex actions using a very available system. Perhaps too many options exist. Imagine driving a car with 3 steering wheels which operated independently of each other and all had unique and necessary uses.
They both require an extreme amount of skill at the top levels, while SC2 simply allows for an easier time in the bottom levels. BW was extremely difficult for low level players, and moving up in your ranking meant a lot more. But at the end of the day, the top 5% of each are on an almost equal level, I would like to think.
I don't know man . I still think that an active A teamer's mechanics from BW will blow anyone in SC2 in to the middle of last week .
On October 20 2011 16:31 Jenia6109 wrote: So, does this news mean that MVP, GanZi, ZergBong, Iron, SaiR and the others will return to BW?
They might play for fun, but BW is so much more mechanically demanding than SC2 that I doubt prolonged exposure to an "easier" game would result in them having solid mechanics for BW. I don't mean to start an argument over the games by saying that; just pointing obvious things like limited unit selection, requiring selection of individual units to cast spells individually, etc.
It's different than you're portraying it. In BW you have to perform complex actions using a very limited system. Imagine trying to drive a car which had half of a steering wheel and only one awkwardly combined gas and brake pedal. Driving that car professionally would be very difficult.
In SC2, you have to perform equally as complex actions using a very available system. Perhaps too many options exist. Imagine driving a car with 3 steering wheels which operated independently of each other and all had unique and necessary uses.
They both require an extreme amount of skill at the top levels, while SC2 simply allows for an easier time in the bottom levels. BW was extremely difficult for low level players, and moving up in your ranking meant a lot more. But at the end of the day, the top 5% of each are on an almost equal level, I would like to think.
this isnt true. sc2 is almost only a strategy (build order) game at the top level. or atleast compared to bw it is. decision making is also way easier in sc2 since your not so overwhelmed with tasks and you can keep a clear head.
On October 20 2011 16:31 Jenia6109 wrote: So, does this news mean that MVP, GanZi, ZergBong, Iron, SaiR and the others will return to BW?
They might play for fun, but BW is so much more mechanically demanding than SC2 that I doubt prolonged exposure to an "easier" game would result in them having solid mechanics for BW. I don't mean to start an argument over the games by saying that; just pointing obvious things like limited unit selection, requiring selection of individual units to cast spells individually, etc.
It's different than you're portraying it. In BW you have to perform complex actions using a very limited system. Imagine trying to drive a car which had half of a steering wheel and only one awkwardly combined gas and brake pedal. Driving that car professionally would be very difficult.
In SC2, you have to perform equally as complex actions using a very available system. Perhaps too many options exist. Imagine driving a car with 3 steering wheels which operated independently of each other and all had unique and necessary uses.
They both require an extreme amount of skill at the top levels, while SC2 simply allows for an easier time in the bottom levels. BW was extremely difficult for low level players, and moving up in your ranking meant a lot more. But at the end of the day, the top 5% of each are on an almost equal level, I would like to think.
this isnt true. sc2 is almost only a strategy (build order) game at the top level. or atleast compared to bw it is. decision making is also way easier in sc2 since your not so overwhelmed with tasks and you can keep a clear head.
I think you are dumbing down SC2 a bit too much, it certainly is not as complex as BW but it is definitely not as bland as you make it out to be. The greatest difference between both games in required toolset is that BW has much more micro mechanics then SC2 does.
On October 20 2011 16:31 Jenia6109 wrote: So, does this news mean that MVP, GanZi, ZergBong, Iron, SaiR and the others will return to BW?
They might play for fun, but BW is so much more mechanically demanding than SC2 that I doubt prolonged exposure to an "easier" game would result in them having solid mechanics for BW. I don't mean to start an argument over the games by saying that; just pointing obvious things like limited unit selection, requiring selection of individual units to cast spells individually, etc.
It's different than you're portraying it. In BW you have to perform complex actions using a very limited system. Imagine trying to drive a car which had half of a steering wheel and only one awkwardly combined gas and brake pedal. Driving that car professionally would be very difficult.
In SC2, you have to perform equally as complex actions using a very available system. Perhaps too many options exist. Imagine driving a car with 3 steering wheels which operated independently of each other and all had unique and necessary uses.
They both require an extreme amount of skill at the top levels, while SC2 simply allows for an easier time in the bottom levels. BW was extremely difficult for low level players, and moving up in your ranking meant a lot more. But at the end of the day, the top 5% of each are on an almost equal level, I would like to think.
I don't know man . I still think that an A teamer's mechanics from BW would blow anyone in SC2 in to the middle of last week .
The mechanics are very different. One doesn't necessarily translate into the other. Sticking with the car metaphor, it's like driving a sedan vs. a semi truck. In theory they're the same, but in reality that's not true. Being great at driving one doesn't make you great at driving the other, it just makes you capable.
I don't think that the issue is with BW skill vs. SC2 Skill, I just think that BW, because of its limited mechanics, has a significantly lower theoretical maximum than SC2 with its mechanics not being half as limited.
In a sense, I believe it's easier for Flash to be Flash in BW than it would be for Flash to be a Flash in SC2. It isn't entirely about the players, but rather the games. Flash is approaching the speed of light in BW, while we can't even define the speed of light in SC2. Not because the players are bad, but because the game has a higher theoretical maximum.
On October 20 2011 16:31 Jenia6109 wrote: So, does this news mean that MVP, GanZi, ZergBong, Iron, SaiR and the others will return to BW?
They might play for fun, but BW is so much more mechanically demanding than SC2 that I doubt prolonged exposure to an "easier" game would result in them having solid mechanics for BW. I don't mean to start an argument over the games by saying that; just pointing obvious things like limited unit selection, requiring selection of individual units to cast spells individually, etc.
It's different than you're portraying it. In BW you have to perform complex actions using a very limited system. Imagine trying to drive a car which had half of a steering wheel and only one awkwardly combined gas and brake pedal. Driving that car professionally would be very difficult.
In SC2, you have to perform equally as complex actions using a very available system. Perhaps too many options exist. Imagine driving a car with 3 steering wheels which operated independently of each other and all had unique and necessary uses.
They both require an extreme amount of skill at the top levels, while SC2 simply allows for an easier time in the bottom levels. BW was extremely difficult for low level players, and moving up in your ranking meant a lot more. But at the end of the day, the top 5% of each are on an almost equal level, I would like to think.
this isnt true. sc2 is almost only a strategy (build order) game at the top level. or atleast compared to bw it is. decision making is also way easier in sc2 since your not so overwhelmed with tasks and you can keep a clear head.
I feel like you haven't watched much professional SC2. Not being overwhelmed by a 12 unit selection limit doesn't mean that you aren't overwhelmed by something else.
On October 20 2011 14:35 Pelopidas wrote: Without Blizzard pumping money into GOM, SC2 would be no where near it is today.
SC2 is what it is today primarily because it's gone international, which has little to do with any cash that Blizzard may be shoving into the GSL. Hell, GSL is pretty much the only SC2 tournament I don't watch (even when there's no BW clashing with it). SC2 would do fine if GOM disappeared off the face of the earth, would probably be better actually
On October 20 2011 14:35 Pelopidas wrote: Without Blizzard pumping money into GOM, SC2 would be no where near it is today.
SC2 is what it is today primarily because it's gone international, which has little to do with any cash that Blizzard may be shoving into the GSL. Hell, GSL is pretty much the only SC2 tournament I don't watch (even when there's no BW clashing with it). SC2 would do fine if GOM disappeared off the face of the earth, would probably be better actually
I wouldn't say better that would be terrible. Think of it as there would be like no koreans EVER, they would get almost no exposure and if GOM didn't exist we wouldn't know of the gosu players like MVP/Nestea as they don't have sponsors to fly them to events.
God just thinking of it would be bad don't know how you can say it would be better >>.
On October 20 2011 14:35 Pelopidas wrote: Without Blizzard pumping money into GOM, SC2 would be no where near it is today.
SC2 is what it is today primarily because it's gone international, which has little to do with any cash that Blizzard may be shoving into the GSL. Hell, GSL is pretty much the only SC2 tournament I don't watch (even when there's no BW clashing with it). SC2 would do fine if GOM disappeared off the face of the earth, would probably be better actually
I wouldn't say better that would be terrible. Think of it as there would be like no koreans EVER, they would get almost no exposure and if GOM didn't exist we wouldn't know of the gosu players like MVP/Nestea as they don't have sponsors to fly them to events.
God just thinking of it would be bad don't know how you can say it would be better >>.
Now that we know they exist, they wouldn't be left behind if GOM suddenly didn't exist. I'm pretty sure EG would buy them all.
On October 20 2011 16:31 Jenia6109 wrote: So, does this news mean that MVP, GanZi, ZergBong, Iron, SaiR and the others will return to BW?
They might play for fun, but BW is so much more mechanically demanding than SC2 that I doubt prolonged exposure to an "easier" game would result in them having solid mechanics for BW. I don't mean to start an argument over the games by saying that; just pointing obvious things like limited unit selection, requiring selection of individual units to cast spells individually, etc.
It's different than you're portraying it. In BW you have to perform complex actions using a very limited system. Imagine trying to drive a car which had half of a steering wheel and only one awkwardly combined gas and brake pedal. Driving that car professionally would be very difficult.
In SC2, you have to perform equally as complex actions using a very available system. Perhaps too many options exist. Imagine driving a car with 3 steering wheels which operated independently of each other and all had unique and necessary uses.
They both require an extreme amount of skill at the top levels, while SC2 simply allows for an easier time in the bottom levels. BW was extremely difficult for low level players, and moving up in your ranking meant a lot more. But at the end of the day, the top 5% of each are on an almost equal level, I would like to think.
I don't know man . I still think that an A teamer's mechanics from BW would blow anyone in SC2 in to the middle of last week .
The mechanics are very different. One doesn't necessarily translate into the other. Sticking with the car metaphor, it's like driving a sedan vs. a semi truck. In theory they're the same, but in reality that's not true. Being great at driving one doesn't make you great at driving the other, it just makes you capable.
I don't think that the issue is with BW skill vs. SC2 Skill, I just think that BW, because of its limited mechanics, has a significantly lower theoretical maximum than SC2 with its mechanics not being half as limited.
In a sense, I believe it's easier for Flash to be Flash in BW than it would be for Flash to be a Flash in SC2. It isn't entirely about the players, but rather the games. Flash is approaching the speed of light in BW, while we can't even define the speed of light in SC2. Not because the players are bad, but because the game has a higher theoretical maximum.
On October 20 2011 16:31 Jenia6109 wrote: So, does this news mean that MVP, GanZi, ZergBong, Iron, SaiR and the others will return to BW?
They might play for fun, but BW is so much more mechanically demanding than SC2 that I doubt prolonged exposure to an "easier" game would result in them having solid mechanics for BW. I don't mean to start an argument over the games by saying that; just pointing obvious things like limited unit selection, requiring selection of individual units to cast spells individually, etc.
It's different than you're portraying it. In BW you have to perform complex actions using a very limited system. Imagine trying to drive a car which had half of a steering wheel and only one awkwardly combined gas and brake pedal. Driving that car professionally would be very difficult.
In SC2, you have to perform equally as complex actions using a very available system. Perhaps too many options exist. Imagine driving a car with 3 steering wheels which operated independently of each other and all had unique and necessary uses.
They both require an extreme amount of skill at the top levels, while SC2 simply allows for an easier time in the bottom levels. BW was extremely difficult for low level players, and moving up in your ranking meant a lot more. But at the end of the day, the top 5% of each are on an almost equal level, I would like to think.
this isnt true. sc2 is almost only a strategy (build order) game at the top level. or atleast compared to bw it is. decision making is also way easier in sc2 since your not so overwhelmed with tasks and you can keep a clear head.
I feel like you haven't watched much professional SC2. Not being overwhelmed by a 12 unit selection limit doesn't mean that you aren't overwhelmed by something else.
I have watched pro sc2 and I've played zerg in SC2 (probably at a higher level than you). I've also watched pro BW and played tvz in BW and I can say that there is no comparison.
Having read the whole thread now I find it somewhat distressing how divided the community is. I feel like I'm doing it wrong somehow by loving both games. I respect and appreciate each game for what it is and what it is not, perhaps because I think of them as separate but related games and I can take each on it's own merit. I like to think I found SC2 by chance so I could stumble onto BW by fate.
I honestly think that there is a higher chance of good coming from this than bad but it's impossible to know unless a deal is struck and solid details emerge.
On October 20 2011 14:35 Pelopidas wrote: Without Blizzard pumping money into GOM, SC2 would be no where near it is today.
SC2 is what it is today primarily because it's gone international, which has little to do with any cash that Blizzard may be shoving into the GSL. Hell, GSL is pretty much the only SC2 tournament I don't watch (even when there's no BW clashing with it). SC2 would do fine if GOM disappeared off the face of the earth, would probably be better actually
I wouldn't say better that would be terrible. Think of it as there would be like no koreans EVER, they would get almost no exposure and if GOM didn't exist we wouldn't know of the gosu players like MVP/Nestea as they don't have sponsors to fly them to events.
you really think that either the teams themselves, an existing tournament promoter, or whoever, wouldn't get on the phone to (insert Korean-facing conglomerate) and say "hey, we're starting up an sc2 tournament, chuck us a few grand kthnx?"
no, that wouldn't happen at all obviously. mvp/nestea are clearly broke and cannot afford to fly anywhere. mkp doesn't have reddit bankrolling him. puma, rain, hero haven't signed with foreign teams. mc and nada don't have an agreement with SK to cover their expenses. Korean sc2 is clearly completely reliant on GOM. clue - unless you're at least in the top 8 of code S you're probably better of out of Korea as the prize money is lol top heavy
On October 20 2011 16:31 Jenia6109 wrote: So, does this news mean that MVP, GanZi, ZergBong, Iron, SaiR and the others will return to BW?
They might play for fun, but BW is so much more mechanically demanding than SC2 that I doubt prolonged exposure to an "easier" game would result in them having solid mechanics for BW. I don't mean to start an argument over the games by saying that; just pointing obvious things like limited unit selection, requiring selection of individual units to cast spells individually, etc.
It's different than you're portraying it. In BW you have to perform complex actions using a very limited system. Imagine trying to drive a car which had half of a steering wheel and only one awkwardly combined gas and brake pedal. Driving that car professionally would be very difficult.
In SC2, you have to perform equally as complex actions using a very available system. Perhaps too many options exist. Imagine driving a car with 3 steering wheels which operated independently of each other and all had unique and necessary uses.
They both require an extreme amount of skill at the top levels, while SC2 simply allows for an easier time in the bottom levels. BW was extremely difficult for low level players, and moving up in your ranking meant a lot more. But at the end of the day, the top 5% of each are on an almost equal level, I would like to think.
I don't know man . I still think that an A teamer's mechanics from BW would blow anyone in SC2 in to the middle of last week .
The mechanics are very different. One doesn't necessarily translate into the other. Sticking with the car metaphor, it's like driving a sedan vs. a semi truck. In theory they're the same, but in reality that's not true. Being great at driving one doesn't make you great at driving the other, it just makes you capable.
I don't think that the issue is with BW skill vs. SC2 Skill, I just think that BW, because of its limited mechanics, has a significantly lower theoretical maximum than SC2 with its mechanics not being half as limited.
In a sense, I believe it's easier for Flash to be Flash in BW than it would be for Flash to be a Flash in SC2. It isn't entirely about the players, but rather the games. Flash is approaching the speed of light in BW, while we can't even define the speed of light in SC2. Not because the players are bad, but because the game has a higher theoretical maximum.
On October 20 2011 16:57 puppykiller wrote:
On October 20 2011 16:47 Chargelot wrote:
On October 20 2011 16:38 FuRRyChoBo wrote:
On October 20 2011 16:31 Jenia6109 wrote: So, does this news mean that MVP, GanZi, ZergBong, Iron, SaiR and the others will return to BW?
They might play for fun, but BW is so much more mechanically demanding than SC2 that I doubt prolonged exposure to an "easier" game would result in them having solid mechanics for BW. I don't mean to start an argument over the games by saying that; just pointing obvious things like limited unit selection, requiring selection of individual units to cast spells individually, etc.
It's different than you're portraying it. In BW you have to perform complex actions using a very limited system. Imagine trying to drive a car which had half of a steering wheel and only one awkwardly combined gas and brake pedal. Driving that car professionally would be very difficult.
In SC2, you have to perform equally as complex actions using a very available system. Perhaps too many options exist. Imagine driving a car with 3 steering wheels which operated independently of each other and all had unique and necessary uses.
They both require an extreme amount of skill at the top levels, while SC2 simply allows for an easier time in the bottom levels. BW was extremely difficult for low level players, and moving up in your ranking meant a lot more. But at the end of the day, the top 5% of each are on an almost equal level, I would like to think.
this isnt true. sc2 is almost only a strategy (build order) game at the top level. or atleast compared to bw it is. decision making is also way easier in sc2 since your not so overwhelmed with tasks and you can keep a clear head.
I feel like you haven't watched much professional SC2. Not being overwhelmed by a 12 unit selection limit doesn't mean that you aren't overwhelmed by something else.
I have watched pro sc2 and I've played zerg in SC2 (probably at a higher level than you). I've also watched pro BW and played tvz in BW and I can say that there is no comparison.
You don't compare to the top 5% of either. Your experience is invalid. Have a nice day.
On October 20 2011 16:31 Jenia6109 wrote: So, does this news mean that MVP, GanZi, ZergBong, Iron, SaiR and the others will return to BW?
They might play for fun, but BW is so much more mechanically demanding than SC2 that I doubt prolonged exposure to an "easier" game would result in them having solid mechanics for BW. I don't mean to start an argument over the games by saying that; just pointing obvious things like limited unit selection, requiring selection of individual units to cast spells individually, etc.
It's different than you're portraying it. In BW you have to perform complex actions using a very limited system. Imagine trying to drive a car which had half of a steering wheel and only one awkwardly combined gas and brake pedal. Driving that car professionally would be very difficult.
In SC2, you have to perform equally as complex actions using a very available system. Perhaps too many options exist. Imagine driving a car with 3 steering wheels which operated independently of each other and all had unique and necessary uses.
They both require an extreme amount of skill at the top levels, while SC2 simply allows for an easier time in the bottom levels. BW was extremely difficult for low level players, and moving up in your ranking meant a lot more. But at the end of the day, the top 5% of each are on an almost equal level, I would like to think.
I don't know man . I still think that an A teamer's mechanics from BW would blow anyone in SC2 in to the middle of last week .
The mechanics are very different. One doesn't necessarily translate into the other. Sticking with the car metaphor, it's like driving a sedan vs. a semi truck. In theory they're the same, but in reality that's not true. Being great at driving one doesn't make you great at driving the other, it just makes you capable.
I don't think that the issue is with BW skill vs. SC2 Skill, I just think that BW, because of its limited mechanics, has a significantly lower theoretical maximum than SC2 with its mechanics not being half as limited.
In a sense, I believe it's easier for Flash to be Flash in BW than it would be for Flash to be a Flash in SC2. It isn't entirely about the players, but rather the games. Flash is approaching the speed of light in BW, while we can't even define the speed of light in SC2. Not because the players are bad, but because the game has a higher theoretical maximum.
On October 20 2011 16:31 Jenia6109 wrote: So, does this news mean that MVP, GanZi, ZergBong, Iron, SaiR and the others will return to BW?
They might play for fun, but BW is so much more mechanically demanding than SC2 that I doubt prolonged exposure to an "easier" game would result in them having solid mechanics for BW. I don't mean to start an argument over the games by saying that; just pointing obvious things like limited unit selection, requiring selection of individual units to cast spells individually, etc.
It's different than you're portraying it. In BW you have to perform complex actions using a very limited system. Imagine trying to drive a car which had half of a steering wheel and only one awkwardly combined gas and brake pedal. Driving that car professionally would be very difficult.
In SC2, you have to perform equally as complex actions using a very available system. Perhaps too many options exist. Imagine driving a car with 3 steering wheels which operated independently of each other and all had unique and necessary uses.
They both require an extreme amount of skill at the top levels, while SC2 simply allows for an easier time in the bottom levels. BW was extremely difficult for low level players, and moving up in your ranking meant a lot more. But at the end of the day, the top 5% of each are on an almost equal level, I would like to think.
this isnt true. sc2 is almost only a strategy (build order) game at the top level. or atleast compared to bw it is. decision making is also way easier in sc2 since your not so overwhelmed with tasks and you can keep a clear head.
I feel like you haven't watched much professional SC2. Not being overwhelmed by a 12 unit selection limit doesn't mean that you aren't overwhelmed by something else.
Are you actually arguing that SC2 somehow allows for higher skill growth despite being "dumbed" down to casual level and having gameplay mechanics that are not as complex and difficult to handle as BW? Simply taking an action away from the game (forcibly having to control two control groups) doesn't automatically allow the user to perform an equally difficult action elsewhere (such as something tactically). BW forced the user to do those two actions whereas SC2 is simply eliminating one. By design SC2 is meant to be a much easier game than BW (and wc3 players will argue easier than that game too).
I could argue till I die that SC2 has no where near equally complex actions BW does. Look at all the tricks and techniques that have developed in BW over the many years; muta stacking, moving shot, cloning, micro techniques (think air vs scourge), magic box, hold pos lurkers. Those examples don't even scratch the surface of what BW allows. SC2 doesn't allow for near as many of these abilities because the framework SC2 is built on is so inflexible.
I would like to know what your ideas of complex actions in SC2 are. Is it the amount of builds that are currently available? The hard-counter design of the units? Given the relatively bland and simplistic unit design of the majority of SC2 units coupled with the raise the skill floor and lower the ceiling I have a hard time seeing where all these complex actions are coming from.
Doesn't GOM have the exclusive rights to broadcast SC2 in Korea? If Blizzard approves OGN's broadcast Blizzard would have to pay an amount of money to GOM right?
On October 20 2011 16:31 Jenia6109 wrote: So, does this news mean that MVP, GanZi, ZergBong, Iron, SaiR and the others will return to BW?
They might play for fun, but BW is so much more mechanically demanding than SC2 that I doubt prolonged exposure to an "easier" game would result in them having solid mechanics for BW. I don't mean to start an argument over the games by saying that; just pointing obvious things like limited unit selection, requiring selection of individual units to cast spells individually, etc.
It's different than you're portraying it. In BW you have to perform complex actions using a very limited system. Imagine trying to drive a car which had half of a steering wheel and only one awkwardly combined gas and brake pedal. Driving that car professionally would be very difficult.
In SC2, you have to perform equally as complex actions using a very available system. Perhaps too many options exist. Imagine driving a car with 3 steering wheels which operated independently of each other and all had unique and necessary uses.
They both require an extreme amount of skill at the top levels, while SC2 simply allows for an easier time in the bottom levels. BW was extremely difficult for low level players, and moving up in your ranking meant a lot more. But at the end of the day, the top 5% of each are on an almost equal level, I would like to think.
I don't know man . I still think that an A teamer's mechanics from BW would blow anyone in SC2 in to the middle of last week .
The mechanics are very different. One doesn't necessarily translate into the other. Sticking with the car metaphor, it's like driving a sedan vs. a semi truck. In theory they're the same, but in reality that's not true. Being great at driving one doesn't make you great at driving the other, it just makes you capable.
I don't think that the issue is with BW skill vs. SC2 Skill, I just think that BW, because of its limited mechanics, has a significantly lower theoretical maximum than SC2 with its mechanics not being half as limited.
In a sense, I believe it's easier for Flash to be Flash in BW than it would be for Flash to be a Flash in SC2. It isn't entirely about the players, but rather the games. Flash is approaching the speed of light in BW, while we can't even define the speed of light in SC2. Not because the players are bad, but because the game has a higher theoretical maximum.
On October 20 2011 16:31 Jenia6109 wrote: So, does this news mean that MVP, GanZi, ZergBong, Iron, SaiR and the others will return to BW?
They might play for fun, but BW is so much more mechanically demanding than SC2 that I doubt prolonged exposure to an "easier" game would result in them having solid mechanics for BW. I don't mean to start an argument over the games by saying that; just pointing obvious things like limited unit selection, requiring selection of individual units to cast spells individually, etc.
It's different than you're portraying it. In BW you have to perform complex actions using a very limited system. Imagine trying to drive a car which had half of a steering wheel and only one awkwardly combined gas and brake pedal. Driving that car professionally would be very difficult.
In SC2, you have to perform equally as complex actions using a very available system. Perhaps too many options exist. Imagine driving a car with 3 steering wheels which operated independently of each other and all had unique and necessary uses.
They both require an extreme amount of skill at the top levels, while SC2 simply allows for an easier time in the bottom levels. BW was extremely difficult for low level players, and moving up in your ranking meant a lot more. But at the end of the day, the top 5% of each are on an almost equal level, I would like to think.
this isnt true. sc2 is almost only a strategy (build order) game at the top level. or atleast compared to bw it is. decision making is also way easier in sc2 since your not so overwhelmed with tasks and you can keep a clear head.
I feel like you haven't watched much professional SC2. Not being overwhelmed by a 12 unit selection limit doesn't mean that you aren't overwhelmed by something else.
I'm really having a hard time understanding your post, are you saying SC2 has a higher skill cap than BW?
On October 20 2011 16:31 Jenia6109 wrote: So, does this news mean that MVP, GanZi, ZergBong, Iron, SaiR and the others will return to BW?
They might play for fun, but BW is so much more mechanically demanding than SC2 that I doubt prolonged exposure to an "easier" game would result in them having solid mechanics for BW. I don't mean to start an argument over the games by saying that; just pointing obvious things like limited unit selection, requiring selection of individual units to cast spells individually, etc.
It's different than you're portraying it. In BW you have to perform complex actions using a very limited system. Imagine trying to drive a car which had half of a steering wheel and only one awkwardly combined gas and brake pedal. Driving that car professionally would be very difficult.
In SC2, you have to perform equally as complex actions using a very available system. Perhaps too many options exist. Imagine driving a car with 3 steering wheels which operated independently of each other and all had unique and necessary uses.
They both require an extreme amount of skill at the top levels, while SC2 simply allows for an easier time in the bottom levels. BW was extremely difficult for low level players, and moving up in your ranking meant a lot more. But at the end of the day, the top 5% of each are on an almost equal level, I would like to think.
I don't know man . I still think that an A teamer's mechanics from BW would blow anyone in SC2 in to the middle of last week .
The mechanics are very different. One doesn't necessarily translate into the other. Sticking with the car metaphor, it's like driving a sedan vs. a semi truck. In theory they're the same, but in reality that's not true. Being great at driving one doesn't make you great at driving the other, it just makes you capable.
I don't think that the issue is with BW skill vs. SC2 Skill, I just think that BW, because of its limited mechanics, has a significantly lower theoretical maximum than SC2 with its mechanics not being half as limited.
In a sense, I believe it's easier for Flash to be Flash in BW than it would be for Flash to be a Flash in SC2. It isn't entirely about the players, but rather the games. Flash is approaching the speed of light in BW, while we can't even define the speed of light in SC2. Not because the players are bad, but because the game has a higher theoretical maximum.
On October 20 2011 16:57 puppykiller wrote:
On October 20 2011 16:47 Chargelot wrote:
On October 20 2011 16:38 FuRRyChoBo wrote:
On October 20 2011 16:31 Jenia6109 wrote: So, does this news mean that MVP, GanZi, ZergBong, Iron, SaiR and the others will return to BW?
They might play for fun, but BW is so much more mechanically demanding than SC2 that I doubt prolonged exposure to an "easier" game would result in them having solid mechanics for BW. I don't mean to start an argument over the games by saying that; just pointing obvious things like limited unit selection, requiring selection of individual units to cast spells individually, etc.
It's different than you're portraying it. In BW you have to perform complex actions using a very limited system. Imagine trying to drive a car which had half of a steering wheel and only one awkwardly combined gas and brake pedal. Driving that car professionally would be very difficult.
In SC2, you have to perform equally as complex actions using a very available system. Perhaps too many options exist. Imagine driving a car with 3 steering wheels which operated independently of each other and all had unique and necessary uses.
They both require an extreme amount of skill at the top levels, while SC2 simply allows for an easier time in the bottom levels. BW was extremely difficult for low level players, and moving up in your ranking meant a lot more. But at the end of the day, the top 5% of each are on an almost equal level, I would like to think.
this isnt true. sc2 is almost only a strategy (build order) game at the top level. or atleast compared to bw it is. decision making is also way easier in sc2 since your not so overwhelmed with tasks and you can keep a clear head.
I feel like you haven't watched much professional SC2. Not being overwhelmed by a 12 unit selection limit doesn't mean that you aren't overwhelmed by something else.
I'm really having a hard time understanding your post, are you saying SC2 has a higher skill cap than BW?
Has Blizzard changed their patching methodology? At one stage they were patching the game based on silver level play, have they changed this?
On October 20 2011 16:31 Jenia6109 wrote: So, does this news mean that MVP, GanZi, ZergBong, Iron, SaiR and the others will return to BW?
They might play for fun, but BW is so much more mechanically demanding than SC2 that I doubt prolonged exposure to an "easier" game would result in them having solid mechanics for BW. I don't mean to start an argument over the games by saying that; just pointing obvious things like limited unit selection, requiring selection of individual units to cast spells individually, etc.
It's different than you're portraying it. In BW you have to perform complex actions using a very limited system. Imagine trying to drive a car which had half of a steering wheel and only one awkwardly combined gas and brake pedal. Driving that car professionally would be very difficult.
In SC2, you have to perform equally as complex actions using a very available system. Perhaps too many options exist. Imagine driving a car with 3 steering wheels which operated independently of each other and all had unique and necessary uses.
They both require an extreme amount of skill at the top levels, while SC2 simply allows for an easier time in the bottom levels. BW was extremely difficult for low level players, and moving up in your ranking meant a lot more. But at the end of the day, the top 5% of each are on an almost equal level, I would like to think.
I don't know man . I still think that an A teamer's mechanics from BW would blow anyone in SC2 in to the middle of last week .
The mechanics are very different. One doesn't necessarily translate into the other. Sticking with the car metaphor, it's like driving a sedan vs. a semi truck. In theory they're the same, but in reality that's not true. Being great at driving one doesn't make you great at driving the other, it just makes you capable.
I don't think that the issue is with BW skill vs. SC2 Skill, I just think that BW, because of its limited mechanics, has a significantly lower theoretical maximum than SC2 with its mechanics not being half as limited.
In a sense, I believe it's easier for Flash to be Flash in BW than it would be for Flash to be a Flash in SC2. It isn't entirely about the players, but rather the games. Flash is approaching the speed of light in BW, while we can't even define the speed of light in SC2. Not because the players are bad, but because the game has a higher theoretical maximum.
On October 20 2011 16:31 Jenia6109 wrote: So, does this news mean that MVP, GanZi, ZergBong, Iron, SaiR and the others will return to BW?
They might play for fun, but BW is so much more mechanically demanding than SC2 that I doubt prolonged exposure to an "easier" game would result in them having solid mechanics for BW. I don't mean to start an argument over the games by saying that; just pointing obvious things like limited unit selection, requiring selection of individual units to cast spells individually, etc.
It's different than you're portraying it. In BW you have to perform complex actions using a very limited system. Imagine trying to drive a car which had half of a steering wheel and only one awkwardly combined gas and brake pedal. Driving that car professionally would be very difficult.
In SC2, you have to perform equally as complex actions using a very available system. Perhaps too many options exist. Imagine driving a car with 3 steering wheels which operated independently of each other and all had unique and necessary uses.
They both require an extreme amount of skill at the top levels, while SC2 simply allows for an easier time in the bottom levels. BW was extremely difficult for low level players, and moving up in your ranking meant a lot more. But at the end of the day, the top 5% of each are on an almost equal level, I would like to think.
this isnt true. sc2 is almost only a strategy (build order) game at the top level. or atleast compared to bw it is. decision making is also way easier in sc2 since your not so overwhelmed with tasks and you can keep a clear head.
I feel like you haven't watched much professional SC2. Not being overwhelmed by a 12 unit selection limit doesn't mean that you aren't overwhelmed by something else.
i think you're creating too much a difference between bw and sc2.
since we're comparing to cars, bw to sc2 is like Ferrari F40 to Nissan GTR. Going from manual transmission, no ABS, no TC, no computer aid to double clutch, AYC, TC, ABS, etc. etc. GTR(sc2) allows you to get the best lap time possible around a track without having to worry too much about things like throttle/break control and miss shift since the computer does it for you.
its just difference of technique and method. MBS, unlimited selection, queue makes sc2 easier compared to bw, however that doesn't mean bw is that much harder. different technique and methods are used in bw which doesn't compare to sc2. for example, grouping everything in one in bw would be a horrible idea as they would move in a line for long distance. building units in bw is similar to warping in wg units in sc2. cloning instead of smart cast, etc.
if your mechanic is good in bw, you'll be good in sc2. can't say the same for other way around for the same reason i've described with the F40 to GTR comparison.
It was pretty obvious that this would turn into a SC2 vs BW/BW vs SC2 thread. Granted, I'd imagine it's allotted a lot of leniency given the content. What I do find bizarre is that this was slapped into the BW General forum. This isn't BW news, I'm actually quite sure that the majority of the people in the TL:BW community don't have any interest in changes to proleague outside of BW.
EPT
Have a nice day.
