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United States10500 Posts
On October 14 2011 07:20 sataNik[pG] wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2011 07:08 ArvickHero wrote:
It sounds like you're saying strategies are stagnant nowadays, which is definitely not the case. Excuse me? 9/10 games pvz toss opens up with forge nexus. where are the numerous 1 base strats? or 2 gate exp? 4/5 games tvz terran goes 1 rax cc into mass m&m or mech. Where are the amazing 1 base plays: 1 rax acad fact pushes? 2 rax fact acad? or the 3 rax +1 sunk break timing? or the 2 rax m&m + dropship? or the vessel rush +1 m&m + tanks scoop? if u think these are invalid or weak strategies let me prove you wrong. almost every zerg goes for mutalisks tvz. nuff said
LML. nuff said.
but in all seriousness, do you want to put yourself at a disadvantage every game? forge fe + lml build are like the only viable options for you to still be competitive in. same with mech/1 rax cc bio. 2 rax puts you so behind cause all zerg has to do is pump lings and sunken and then you have no econ left...
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Watch his replays, man. Look up the records of the people he's playing. B level players with pretty good records, and he tosses them around like a bag of oreos. "If he still wants to be competitive" is an understatement. iCCup is weaker than it was, obviously, with so many good players moving to SC2 in the foreign scene, but Satanik plays well.
I think what needs to be realised is that standard modern play that professionals use—the FEs, the aggressive macro, the being everywhere—is a really, really hard style to play. You have to be pretty perfect to do it, and it's not just noobs who don't know the builds or have ok macro that are losing to the old school style, it's B level players who theoretically at least know the basics. I find myself that every time I go back to my old tactics I do much better. The new style is really hard, but the old style punishes it so much that you almost might as well leave it to the pros/aspiring pros.
People used to say corsair reaver is so hard to play, but then everyone did it anyway in their own half assed way. That's sort of what all modern builds have become. It is SO much easier to do the old builds and actually put your concentration to good use instead of spreading it so thin you lose track of everything.
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Exactly, the style of the pros is -maybe- suitable for them, not for all. It is very demanding and extremely difficult to execute properly. Their capability with the keyboard and mouse is inhuman.
I just came back after 4 years absence, playing on a 20ms response ancient tft and a 2001 MS
ball mouse, unmotivated, with my zero multitask, controlling mutalisks the same way i did in 1999,
but i got no problem at all to be competitive. But! My concentration is complete, my thinking crystal clear, my surrounding is serene (i live alone in the forest), my knowledge is vast and i can control 9 groups of units. I warm up by playing some extra chilled fun games and then im all set. I really enjoy this game very much, thats why i started again to play.
Why people so commonly like to waste tremendous amount of energy to useless actions instead of preserving it is beyond me.
Here are some really nice in house games:
http://www.2shared.com/file/oKjENsHP/inhouse.html
Star.Love is sasin)yeon A+ PGT with 90% pvz, random user, but he is rusty
Nam[2] is a highly skilled new age korean terran
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Nice topic. always agree with at least people trying out things instead of the same over and over.
Personally although im crap and low level i've been trying various bio builds in TvP, mixing it up with various rax and fac numbers, dropships, going from 1rax cc with range or going 1rax cc tank as normal and hiding the rax. It's just fun to mess about with really and i think people should do it more. In TvZ just been trying an 'everything goes' kinda build with biomech the whole way through the game, reacting by switching between various units at different times, just trying to be annoying everywhere. I don't know much fun to try with other races unfortunately, i was trying various speed shuttle stuff in PvT such as a sorta mass elevator instead of recall; I was thinking maybe hydra/queen w/ ensnare in ZvT maybe, mixed in with lurk/ling of course.. just a hell of a lot to control.
Although i am a low level player better people can do things too no doubt, i think people just don't want to experiment and take losses before maybe finding a fun strategy that at least can work sometimes.
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On October 16 2011 08:36 sataNik[pG] wrote:Here are some really nice in house games: http://www.2shared.com/file/oKjENsHP/inhouse.htmlStar.Love is sasin)yeon A+ PGT with 90% pvz, random user, but he is rusty Nam[2] is a highly skilled new age korean terran
All very good games. If you get a chance to play vs MannerGuy or Rhythmical, I hope you upload replays for that too. They seem to be the most dominant on the ladder right now (rather, Rhythmical is basically the only person MannerGuy has lost to).
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I respect and understand what sataNik is saying. I managed to win a few games vs him by doing what he called " cheese " builds. I did some 1 base pvz and won. He's better than I am, but by changing things up and doing different builds, it throws the opponent off. He is quite good after being inactive for so long, and am sure he can reach A- A rank with ease, just look at his matchlist and see some of the players he won vs, Draw, TopStar, etc etc..
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On October 14 2011 07:08 ArvickHero wrote:
It sounds like you're saying strategies are stagnant nowadays, which is definitely not the case.
Exactly. The past 1-2 years have been SUPER dynamic.
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We need to do a Satanik ICCUP attack!
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On October 17 2011 09:27 sluggaslamoo wrote:
We need to do a Satanik ICCUP attack!
GOGO
ch op starteam
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On October 16 2011 04:07 Jumperer wrote:
I will play a showmatch series against satanik.
op starteam
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Who did you play, and results?
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On October 18 2011 10:10 EndingLife wrote:
Who did you play, and results?
I just watched the replays and the guy was called Caffine.
Results:
+ Show Spoiler +
Also question about game 1:
+ Show Spoiler +If he did anything other than 1 gate expand, isn't he going to beat you here or have an advantage? If he one gate robos into obs he can see what you're doing way earlier, if he goes reaver he rapes rines, if he goes 2 gate expand he has enough goons to stop the attack.
Edit: Fun games to watch, I want to see more showmatches! Thanks for sharing.
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Wohmfg
+ Show Spoiler +The biggest fear of this build is dts->psi which can make you run out of scans, hence the very fast scanner and not using scans both to save them and to not warn him. At the timing that i scouted the 4 dragoons it was indication that he had neither robotics nor early citadel. Dragoons < ranged m&m + tank. Vs reaver it is playable, as you got the siege tanks for big range and if you spread out the marines you may snipe the shuttle and the reaver without too many casualties. This build can easily punish anyone whose % of "safely" expanding with dragoons is too high. In pro play it was used once in a while, usually with success.
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On October 18 2011 11:55 sataNik[pG] wrote:Wohmfg + Show Spoiler +The biggest fear of this build is dts->psi which can make you run out of scans, hence the very fast scanner and not using scans both to save them and to not warn him. At the timing that i scouted the 4 dragoons it was indication that he had neither robotics nor early citadel. Dragoons < ranged m&m + tank. Vs reaver it is playable, as you got the siege tanks for big range and if you spread out the marines you may snipe the shuttle and the reaver without too many casualties. This build can easily punish anyone whose % of "safely" expanding with dragoons is too high. In pro play it was used once in a while, usually with success.
Nice answer thanks. 
You think you will have more replays of showmatches soon?
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Its not up to me, as i won't turn down any offer ^^
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I'll gladly get wooped the hell out of by sataNik. D- 4 lyfe mang, let's do this!
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i love you dude. hope at least some ppl listen to you :D
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Oh i remember satanik's ZvZ game in WCG, immediately become his fan lol.
Glad to know hes still around.
I play at low levels iccup and I think it seems good to practise your marco then after u have reached a certain level you play more attention to strategies. Problem is its very hard to have perfect marco and I do agree with u that the balance nowadays is heavily shifted towards playing a marco game.
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sataNik, i was talking to michael he said he would like a RvR showmatch, he's SL]..Rainbow- used to be michael(OD)
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EPT
