As requested by BLinD_RawR. I think I'll be looking into the one Konadora mentioned as well, later... Keep spamming me on PM if you want something, I forget about them a lot, hehe. Thanks to the above people for keeping up with the scene and keeping us (TL) informed!
Again, summary with original article links, feel free to grab it for a full translation should there be demand for it. I'm doing this from work, risking my job for you guys xD
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Best of Seven? Progamers "Yes" vs. Fans "Maybe" Source: DES Original article by reporter Sora Lee
Summary: The opinions of progamers and the fans are somewhat split regarding the implementation of Bo7's last season. Based on a survey, over 82% of progamers - including Stork and Flash - wanted to keep the Bo7 format for the upcoming season. Bo7 for the progamers means more opportunities for games, especially for the lesser known players and rookies. Most management staff and coaches were in agreement with the progamers, saying that Bo7 was better for rookie development and team atmosphere in general. Many fans, however, expressed their opinions that they weren't getting the match-ups they wanted [T/N: fans want more epic TBLS head-to-head stuff]. Notably, Leta was with the fans on this one, saying that the Bo7 in regular season took away the excitement and intensity of post-season games. KeSPA added that they have learned many lessons from the last season and are continuing to explore diverse options to make eSports better for everyone.
Issues Regarding the 5-Day Week Source: DES Original article by reporter Sora Lee
Summary: For once, everyone - fans, progamers, broadcasting stations, coaching staff, management staff, and other eSports personnels - was in agreement on a particular issue. That issue was that the 5-day SPL week was simply too much. There were too many broadcasted games [T/N: in this context, strictly SCBW] and fans started losing interest as the value in each game decreased. The 5-day week was a movement from KeSPA to accommodate all 12 teams when the scene was at its peak. Fans complained that it became too hard to keep up with their favourite players/teams due to too many games. Broadcasting stations complained that too much time was dedicated to SCBW and other games suffered. Progamers complained that the schedule was too intense, and some of them added that the reason for so many generic [macro-fest] games were that there wasn't enough time to practice fine-tuned strategic builds. Flash, noted for his wrist injury and recent surgery, agreed that the 5-day week was too much work.
SPL: How many days per week? Source: DES Original article by reporter Sora Lee
Summary: Similar with the article above, but with more inputs. One of the key problems identified with the overloaded schedule was that the quality of games deteriorated. Few key players that were active in 2006 mentioned that to perfect a particular strategy on a particular map, it takes about 3-4 days of dedicated practice. In a 5-day SPL week and with individual leagues as well, some players have to prepare for 14 or more games each week. Progamers and fans both want one game per week [for a team]. One eSports personnel suggested that in the unfortunate scenario of a team needing to play two games on a particular week, it should be scheduled so that the games are on back-to-back days so that players can prepare for three days, play for two, then rest for a day or two. Samsung Khan's head coach, January, added that scheduling back-to-back games on the week could create additional focus for that particular team and develop more interesting storylines.
The Fate of WL Format? Source: DES Original article by reporter Sora Lee
Summary: Winner's League format was meant to be more interesting for the fans who can see their favourite players win more than one set on a given day. In the 10-11 however, the league stretched the SWL to two full rounds and was criticized for "losing steam" in the overall SPL picture. Coaches generally agreed that there were more losses than gains in the SWL 10-11: rookies were underused and they lost pace, while ace players were overused and fatigued in the subsequent rounds. KT's head coach Jihoon Lee maintained that SWL should not be taken out entirely, and he suggested that alternative scheduling should be considered to keep SWL for the fans.
Eclat's Director Lee: Branding of SPL is urgent. Source: DES Original article by reporter Sora Lee
Background: Eclat Entertainment (http://www.eclatnt.com) is a Korean broadcasting company that owns broadcasting rights to most of the major sports in Korea. It has a stake in eSports broadcasting as well. Beyond broadcasting, Eclat works with its partners to a promote positive future for the various sports in Korea.
Summary: Director Lee of Eclat Entertainment points out some key issues with the current eSports scene in Korea. In his experience dealing with the Korean Baseball League, arguably the most popular sports league in Korea right now, he experienced how a few broadcasting changes can turn around the viewership and popularity. He is encouraging popular portal sites such as Naver (www.naver.com) to invest in eSports as a partner. He identifies the global appeal of eSports is one of the core strengths that should be more widely utilized than right now. He recommends branding of SPL and that in order for that to be done successfully, more games need to achieve a balance in the scene [right now, it is heavily dependent on SCBW]. Continual investment, partnership, promotion, and dedication will bring only brighter future ahead.
Balance Question: SPL vs. Individual Leagues Source: DES Original article by reporter Sora Lee
Summary: OGN expressed their concerns regarding the SPL vs. OSL balance, which is being somewhat ignored by KeSPA and team managers amidst the current mess. The two leagues should be mutually beneficial, one creating excitement for the other in both ways, but recently the balance has been broken and too much priority has been placed on SPL. Numerous progamers stated in the past that the combined load is too much to handle, including the popular progamer Bisu who directly said last year that the team is putting too much emphasis on SPL practice, not giving him enough time for individual league practice. In a broader view, quality of games in individual leagues are on a decline and new stars aren't rising in the scene. As an example, the most recent Jin Air OSL was held for the most part during the offseason, which produced one of the most dramatic tournament stories and the finals in the history of eSports. Director Park of OGN sincerely hopes that KeSPA will look into this issue before the start of upcoming season.
FEATURED ARTICLE THIS IS TEH AWESOME Can someone do a full translation? >_< I am too busybusybusy~ Park Wan Gyu: "eSports in danger, not at the fault of the progamers and fans." Source: *Gasp* a FOMOS source! - Only providing summary and the original link, that's OK right? Original article by Reporter Younghoon Kang
Background: Park Wan Gyu is a popular singer/rocker in Korea, noted for his brief stay with the legendary rock group "Revival." [Personal opinion: this guy rules, and his voice is so manly AND smoothly hot. Drooling all over thinking about his singing right now. OK /fanboy but in all seriousness, he is perhaps the #1 supporter of eSports (especially SCBW) amongst the celebrities in Korea, and he approached OGN first to give special performances at YellOw's retirement as well as the Jin Air OSL. True eSports fan.]
Summary: Recently, elected member of goverment Mr. Kang submitted and publicized a government report outlining the jeopardized state of current eSports scene in Korea. His key criticism was worded like "eSports, once a sizable popular culture that threatened to overtake the pro baseball in terms of popularity amongst teenagers and young adults, has fallen rapidly and is now being challenged for its very existence due to unprofessional practices, stubbornness, and lack of effort from its managing bodies."
As an avid fan and supporter, PWG expressed his opinions regarding this issue. He pointed out that when the management people shifted focus from providing entertainment and inspiration to its fans to simply "managing," the downfall began. He acknowledged that SC2 cannot be forever ignored by KeSPA and the general eSports scene. While he maintains that the SCBW scene is where his heart is at, he recognizes that both games should be allowed to flourish to their full potentials. Progamers and fans should be free to choose which game they want to play and watch. He was appalled at how "legends" of SCBW, namely BoxeR and YellOw, were being called filthy traitors by the SCBW community as soon as they switched over to SC2. Even so, PWG does not blame the fans - rather, it's the fault of the entire eSports system currently in place.
PWG recognizes the OGN broadcast of WCG Korea SC2 tournament as an important, symbolic step towards growth of eSports. He is thankful that BoxeR stepped up to give a special commentating appearance in the tournament. BoxeR and YellOw are perhaps the two leading figures that can help this growing scene the most.
He made it clear about his views regarding the governing/managing bodies in the scene. He demands that Blizzard Entertainment, KeSPA, OGN, and other team managers and sponsors to each compromise their greed and work cooperative for the benefit of the scene. KeSPA should have reacted more professionally and promptly to the intellectual property rights dispute. They have to learn to publicly apologize for their past mistakes and earn back the trust of the fans. Blizzard needs to step out of their western world business shell and recognize eSports something beyond simple gaming content. eSports would not be here without the countless years of dedication from Korean progamers, broadcasting stations, and the fans - and Blizzard needs to show that they respect that. OGN needs to play more of an active role in the decision-making process and tie all the relations together between the aforementioned parties.
He ended with this: "during my hardest times as a singer, I was able to endure the hardships by enjoying eSports. It is a precious cultural medium that we must not lose."
[T/N: I think I translated too much of the article... hope I don't get in too much trouble for this!]
On October 12 2011 23:18 sCCrooked wrote: wait there are people in the world who want LESS brood war available?? o_O
people who cannot keep up....its understandable.
I hope this thread doesn't go to the community news section,it would be nice if it didn't go to shit because of some guys who never followed BW comment on something they would otherwise not see/care.
On October 12 2011 23:18 sCCrooked wrote: wait there are people in the world who want LESS brood war available?? o_O
people who cannot keep up....its understandable.
No its not but then again I didn't specify which part I was referring to. I was referring to less as in Bo5 instead of Bo7. Also your assumption wouldn't make sense since if they reduce the days per week it would just mean a longer season overall since they'd move those days taken out to make new weeks. Longer season, sparser games, sounds like pretty much every other pro-sport schedule out there.
It might make for a longer shelf-life of a progamer too if the season is just overall less "ALL-AT-ONCE" style. Either that, or at least FlaSh's arm will last longer
I would have agreed that the 5 day a week format doesn't work before, but with no MSL I'm reluctant to support a second rollback without seeing how no MSL feels first.
On October 12 2011 23:18 sCCrooked wrote: wait there are people in the world who want LESS brood war available?? o_O
It also helps explain why the Korean scene is not into SC2 as much. It's pretty damn hard to follow 1500000 tournaments a week.
I think if you actually tried to keep up with EVERY league and EVERY team participating in EVERY tournament in SC2, you'd be operating on next to no sleep every day, and you better not have a job/school/life to attend to.
*sigh* I miss when BW used to have that kind of explosive growth
bo7 is pretty much needed right now with there being less teams. i mean if it went back to best of 5, things would be so, so shallow - you'd have lineups that could look like:
kt: flash, stats, hoejja, action skt: fantasy, bisu, best, soo stars: zero, soulkey, light, free ace: kal, fbh, ggaemo, great cj: hydra, leta, effort, movie khan: stork, jangbi, grape, reality stx: bogus, shuttle, calm, modesty new eighth SUPER TEAM OF SUPER FRIENDS: jaedong, baby, sea, killer
while you can argue in some situations whether that is the strongest lineup for each side, i'm sure we could all reel off quite a lot of players that are very, very good that simply wouldn't get enough time in proleague. as for the rookies, they'd be fucked
the comments about the bo7 was that a lot of fans complained they don't have that much time to dedicate, and usually if it goes to the ace match (the most anticipated match, of course), it's very late into the afternoon/approaching night, or sometimes even extends into dinner time, and people have to leave
On October 12 2011 23:47 BLinD-RawR wrote: one of the purposed measures for SWL was to have it separate like STX cup,actually it could work something like this.
Saturday-Tuesday:Regular SPL Wednesday:SWL
That would be pretty awesome. Although it'd put pressure on some of the major players because now theyd be playing high-stakes games each week, prep for starting and potentially playing up to four games in the WL, and then probably prepping and playing their Individual League games.
I would like to see the WL as a break from the regular season PL. This would give us a new format and more chances to see the best players and possibly new players (especially if the format goes back to Bo5, which I think it will). I know its already inbetween seasons but I mean a seperate WL (like STX Cup) that is apart from PL standings.
Also they'd have to make up for coverage since MBC is now longer covering BW correct?
Thank you so much for translations/gathering all this information into one place. Very interesting and I'm in agreement with most of the issues. Regarding the 7 set match up, I think it would be better as long as there are less matches per week. It was only really exhausting because of the 4 teams a day schedule. I have to admit tho, I wish they'd say something about 2v2 as I really miss it. I can see a lot of reasons why they wouldn't want it back tho, but it broke things up and kept things fresh for fans.
Does anyone know if there's an exact date when PL etc starts up?
On October 12 2011 23:18 sCCrooked wrote: wait there are people in the world who want LESS brood war available?? o_O
people who cannot keep up....its understandable.
I hope this thread doesn't go to the community news section,it would be nice if it didn't go to shit because of some guys who never followed BW comment on something they would otherwise not see/care.
I have to agree with this. I mostly just check results in SC2 nowadays because there's too many tournaments. I mainly just follow GSL and even after just a weekend of not following the news, it's a pain to find the thread I'm looking for in the tournament section here in TL.
In contrast, I still read through the BW LR threads when games happen. It's the same reason the NFL is the most popular sport here in the US. Probably 3-4 days a week might be better.
I'd love less frequent Bo7s. The schedule already has me up at 2am-4am school nights watching, would not in the slightest mind more sleep but more games (rather than bo5)
I agree that proleague felt a bit too much like a factory this past season - too many games. I think they should avoid playing two matches at the same time. This comes pretty naturally though with the closure of MBC Game. One match five days a week would be perfect for me at least. And keep it BO7 of course!
Good news that a new Proleague season is on the horizon!!
Bo7 is a much better format with more balance to teams with generally good A-teamers but no super-ace.
Regarding the Days-per-week questions, let's do some calculations:
1) When there were 12 teams (Bo5) Average games per series (assume equal chance for 3-0, 3-1, 3-2) = 4 Number of games per round = 61 series * 4 games/series = ~244 games per round
2) Last Proleague Season (10 teams, Bo7) Average games per series (assume equal chance for 4-0, 4-1, 4-2, 4-3) = 5.5 Number of games per round = 45 series * 5.5 games/series = ~247.5 games per round
3) New Proleague Season (8 teams, Bo7) Number of games per round = 28 series * 5.5 games/series = ~154 games per round (38% drop from last season)
4) New Proleague Season (8 teams, Bo5) Number of games per round = 28 series * 4 games/series = ~112 games per round (55% drop from last season)
With 2 less teams, less series to play, and one less broadcasting station, I would say OGN needs to keep the 5-day week to broadcast all the Proleague games regardless of the BoX format. However, if Eclat decides to broadcast a portion of the games, then Kespa can shrink the week to 4 days.
I think 1 match per week for a team seems like a good number. all the fans should have an opportunity to see their team play at least once per week and less matches = more interest in each match.
I don't personally have anything against the WL being two rounds but maybe would be better if they switched it up instead of having it back to back.
Less games is welcome. I couldn't watch that many matches per week last season and it honestly didn't bother me because there was so much. I ended up just checking results a lot. I would still like Bo7s though.
On October 12 2011 23:39 konadora wrote: the comments about the bo7 was that a lot of fans complained they don't have that much time to dedicate, and usually if it goes to the ace match (the most anticipated match, of course), it's very late into the afternoon/approaching night, or sometimes even extends into dinner time, and people have to leave
Yeah. The one proleague match I was able to attend was the very last CJ vs. SKT back in July, and it went all 7 games, starting from 6PM to around 9PM. I was exhausted and starving by the time it was over :c
I can see from a Korean fan perspective why they would want a bo5. They're most likely not going to watch the VOD and would want to watch it live. However, they don't want to stay for 3+ hours watching a bo7. I did notice that attendance at proleague matches suffered this year and I would think it was because of the frequency in games (5 days a week, bo7).
Hey thanks for the updates, it's very much appreciated. I think switching to a 4-day week while keeping Bo7's would be the most optimal decision. Considering that there are fewer teams this season, having to play 2 matches in one week doesn't seem necessary as long as the one match they do play is long enough (Bo7), and having a 4-day week definitely seems like a reasonable desire from progamers and fans who want some downtime from the frequency of games.
Why not cut it to less than 5 day-week and change it back to bo5 for the official PL, but broadcast Dream league as well? There would be less noob stomping in the bo5 format, and a generally more competitive environment. Since the purpose of bo7 is to give rookie more experience, broadcasting DL live would give them stage exposure without embarrassing them to far superior opponents.
As for the audience, the people who don't really have enough time to dedicate to watching BW would just watch PL, while the more hardcore fans can watch DL as well.
On October 13 2011 01:22 bearbuddy wrote: Why not cut it to less than 5 day-week and change it back to bo5 for the official PL, but broadcast Dream league as well? There would be less noob stomping in the bo5 format, and a generally more competitive environment. Since the purpose of bo7 is to give rookie more experience, broadcasting DL live would give them stage exposure without embarrassing them to far superior opponents.
As for the audience, the people who don't really have enough time to dedicate to watching BW would just watch PL, while the more hardcore fans can watch DL as well.
^Seconded, great idea! I actually enjoy watching up- and coming players, but its not as fun when they get stomped for the first year or so. Could you maybe pitch this to kespa? ^^
On October 13 2011 01:22 bearbuddy wrote: Why not cut it to less than 5 day-week and change it back to bo5 for the official PL, but broadcast Dream league as well? There would be less noob stomping in the bo5 format, and a generally more competitive environment. Since the purpose of bo7 is to give rookie more experience, broadcasting DL live would give them stage exposure without embarrassing them to far superior opponents.
As for the audience, the people who don't really have enough time to dedicate to watching BW would just watch PL, while the more hardcore fans can watch DL as well.
Dream League broadcasts would be so sweet. There's much less incentive to watch them though and theyd have to get sponsors to sponsor the broadcasts and give more money. Man, we can only dream
Also I think Hightemper is right about the number of days per week, but still we're assuming there has to be less games with less teams and one less station so teams will likely onloy play once a week or twice a week at most I imagine. Plus OGN has to cover the IL.
On October 12 2011 23:18 sCCrooked wrote: wait there are people in the world who want LESS brood war available?? o_O
people who cannot keep up....its understandable.
I hope this thread doesn't go to the community news section,it would be nice if it didn't go to shit because of some guys who never followed BW comment on something they would otherwise not see/care.
Don't worry, I think staff has learned their lesson after basically destroying five threads in a row by moving it to community news lol. If it happens again I will definitely complain as loudly as I can
edit: wowow just as I say it, it's put into community news. T.T I'll reserve myself until after this turns into a you-know-what debate
On October 12 2011 23:18 sCCrooked wrote: wait there are people in the world who want LESS brood war available?? o_O
Fans want bo5 because of instead of seeing Sun vs Flash or Jaedong vs Action they want top players to play against each other more in a smaller, restricted format. Progamers and coaches want more games because they can put in players with little experience and not jeopardize the match fielding a player of lesser skill.
The only downside I can see to having it a Bo5 for SPL and broadcasting DL: Yes you can see the top tier and the DL will allow rookies to get exp. But then isn't it possibly unfair for the mid-tier who are better then the B team, but then aren't good enough to be sent out. Like low A team players.
I'm still for the idea, just thinking of possible issues(?) that could arise.
I would be content with either, but if I had to pick I would prefer to keep it bo7 just so there is more content. I also agree it gives the rookies a better chance and making a splash in the scene and gaining experience. Coaches would definitely be more inclined to send out newer players if they can spare a game or two.
Looks like good changes to me, the scene felt over-burdened by too many games played and generic builds every time. I think WL needs to stay somehow, at least one round.Also, it has to remains a Bo7, so rookies have a chance to play. The back-to-back dynamic mentioned by January is very interesting, I hope this goes through as well.
Overall nice infos, thanks Optical, always glad to have some BW news!
On October 13 2011 01:22 bearbuddy wrote: Why not cut it to less than 5 day-week and change it back to bo5 for the official PL, but broadcast Dream league as well? There would be less noob stomping in the bo5 format, and a generally more competitive environment. Since the purpose of bo7 is to give rookie more experience, broadcasting DL live would give them stage exposure without embarrassing them to far superior opponents.
As for the audience, the people who don't really have enough time to dedicate to watching BW would just watch PL, while the more hardcore fans can watch DL as well.
Anyway, thanks for the info.
Wow, this is a phenomenal solution. I hope they go with something like this!
I found that the Bo7 was often too long for me to seriously consider sitting down and watching every game. I frequently found myself checking for the recommended games / checking for players I like, and only watching those games. With the Bo5 format, I'd usually watch the entire series, even when it involved players/teams that I wasn't particularly interested in.
Change is good, and it sounds to me like the changes being discussed are going to make BW better no matter what.
My personal opinion:
BO5 Proleague, two times a week. Make Winner's League more of an STX Master's Cup, its own seperate thing
Also I feel like MyStarLeague should be broadcast on a third day, and break that off from OSL. It'd be like a rookie-courage tournament and get them TV time and practice, without having to go through and face Bisu in prelims right after haha.
Sorry guys, being hampered with last minute deadline report stuff. Will continue working on it later~ *edit: just finished the report, but going to head home soon~
As much as I love BW (and hate the lack of it) I do agree with mostly everything. 5 days is just too much. Lower it slightly so that the suspense and novelty of the games don't wear off.
Perfect example: GSL. There is a new champion crowned every fucking month. It was amazing the first time, really fun the second, but by now its just semi-interesting.
Allowing for less games allows for more HYPE! OSL takes like 3 months to complete. This gives fans a chance to follow a player closely and also allows them to get to know all the players (rather than just the stars like Nestea or MVP). OSL example from last season: Killer. Daim it was amazing to watch him tear through everyone till he got DQed and was unfortunately knocked out. But his rookie run, and more importantly the time it took for it to happen allowed for fans to hype him and connect with his play. I'm pretty sure 80-90% of TL was rooting for that kid (:
I do like the BO7 format. It gives recognition to the up and coming players. The next generation of stars need their time in the spotlight so fans can get to know them. If PL is going to drop to 8 teams, I don't really see that big a problem. They can just have each team play 1 round a week. That would mean 4 days of games.
On October 13 2011 01:22 bearbuddy wrote: Why not cut it to less than 5 day-week and change it back to bo5 for the official PL, but broadcast Dream league as well? There would be less noob stomping in the bo5 format, and a generally more competitive environment. Since the purpose of bo7 is to give rookie more experience, broadcasting DL live would give them stage exposure without embarrassing them to far superior opponents.
As for the audience, the people who don't really have enough time to dedicate to watching BW would just watch PL, while the more hardcore fans can watch DL as well.
Anyway, thanks for the info.
Wow, this is a phenomenal solution. I hope they go with something like this!
I found that the Bo7 was often too long for me to seriously consider sitting down and watching every game. I frequently found myself checking for the recommended games / checking for players I like, and only watching those games. With the Bo5 format, I'd usually watch the entire series, even when it involved players/teams that I wasn't particularly interested in.
Just skip the first 2 games. BO5 means no Hyuk, so no thx... It's already quite hard for the non-stars to play, why make it harder while putting more work on the stars?
Imagine CJ in a BO5. Effort and Hydra, then 1 or 2 guys more out of Leta, Snow, Horang2, Movie and Skyhigh, and then if necessary Effort or Hydra again for ace. It's pretty ridiculous to imagine Leta only playing every third game.
On October 12 2011 23:18 sCCrooked wrote: wait there are people in the world who want LESS brood war available?? o_O
Fans want bo5 because of instead of seeing Sun vs Flash or Jaedong vs Action they want top players to play against each other more in a smaller, restricted format. Progamers and coaches want more games because they can put in players with little experience and not jeopardize the match fielding a player of lesser skill.
I understand this quite well. My opinion is that I like the Bo7 format, I like seeing new blood in the PL because any other show they had showing the amateur scene has pretty much been declared "done". If there's no opportunities for new faces to shine through on televised matches, its safe to say that BW won't be lasting much longer than the current generation of top players.
I can see how people want to see only the best playing each other, but seriously does anyone remember all the bitching about so much FlaSh vs Jaedong matches? I didn't mind it, but apparently other people did. Oversaturate with nothing but the gosus and pretty soon they'll run out of tricks to show everybody. They already have enormous pressure on them and as someone who has spoken to several progamers, coaches, commentators, and managers face-to-face, I put it out there that they don't need a heavier workload than what's already being put on them.
I'm a big fan of the idea of cutting down PL matches per team per week. 2-3 matches a week is fine and would give the players a little more time to relax, practice, or whatever they want instead of being on a vehicle traveling somewhere where a large sum of money, your team's and your reputation is at stake, and the pressure of "win win win only win".
I think it's pretty much a win-win situation! Bo5 - More live viewers Bo7 - more games from which awesomeness can spawn. However, I do kind of miss the Bo5 format due to star-intensity, nostalgia effect and also the lack of any new rookies to have really impressed me. (Ssak and reality maybe meh)
I strongly prefer Bo7 over Bo5. HOWEVER, I want a first team to 2 wins of Bo7 matches during the play-offs, and perhaps a first team to 3 wins for the grand finals. It was anticlimactic to see an entire years worth of tension between SKT and KT just to see it all come down to one day, especially when the other games preceding it in the play offs were played with a first team to 2 wins.
All articles linked by BLinD_RawR are summarized now. Going to have to do some digging to find Kona's article which was awesome. Also I think I saw someone post a link in the previous pages, I'll look into it. Someone with good business and marketing knowledge should translate the Eclat one for sure, that one has some real good insights but I don't think I'll do it justice (infrastructure engineering FTW).
with bigger teams it makes sense to have bo7 > bo5, but it also makes sense to have less matches (4 days / week > 5)
wait how long have they been broadcasting two matches at the same time? it has been like that for as long as i can remember... I don't necessarily think that should change.
however i think 1 round of winners league will probably happen . idk that's the only thing that seems reasonable.
lol at this being spolighted, against op's request.
What if they alternated between bo5 and bo7 for different rounds (e.g., round 1 bo5, round 2 bo7, round 3 bo5, etc). This would be kind of experimental for future seasons.
thanks for sharing this! i love reading updates on bw scene!
i can't wait for the next SPL and OSL... oh wait! is there any update on msl? are they still doing it or it's totally scrap now since mbc will be shut down by jan?
On October 13 2011 07:58 reincremate wrote: What if they alternated between bo5 and bo7 for different rounds (e.g., round 1 bo5, round 2 bo7, round 3 bo5, etc). This would be kind of experimental for future seasons.
Bo7: I liked it. Gave the lesser known players more opportunities to play. Also made having a deep lineup more important rather than just relying on your superstar player. For TBLS matches we always have...
Winner's league: I love it. Practically guarantees matches between the best players. Plus there's the tension of whether your favorite player can manage the all-kill. I understand if some people thought it dragged on too long. Maybe if the WL rounds weren't back-to-back it would have been more tolerable to fans who don't like WL
Days per week: Definitely cut it down. With only 8 teams next year there's no need for too many games. It would make each individual match more meaningful.
bo7 is so much better than ob5..ive seen a lot of new players this past proleague season who ive never really payed attention to before, the bo7 format allowing them more time to get over their nerves and come into their own. Also it gives me more bw to watch, which is ofc always good
On October 13 2011 10:00 FyRe_DragOn wrote: bo7 is so much better than ob5..ive seen a lot of new players this past proleague season who ive never really payed attention to before, the bo7 format allowing them more time to get over their nerves and come into their own. Also it gives me more bw to watch, which is ofc always good
Surely having less teams will make less games anyway. Once a week for each team where possible sounds fine to me. I'm more worried about the lunchtime scheduling, I just don't understand why they put games on when the majority of the fan base is gonna be in school/college.
I fully understand the reason some people like BO5 you are gonna get slightly more exciting games if only the best 3-4 players from each team play. But I really prefer BO7 its nice to see the rookies coming in and see how they develop. You still get good games and there's more room for more players.
I think bo5 is better cause it's much better to see the highest skilled players play. A lot of the games last year were just low quality and thus boring to watch because some of these people being sent up just aren't good enough yet.
The rookies can have their time to play but only once they've shown themselves to be ready
Bo7: Definitely a keeper. I want to see players like Wooki, Turn, Reality be able to play more often and also up-coming rookies.
SPL Scheduling: Well, for us bored mofo's of course we'll like 5 days a week (maybe because i live in australia n time difference is perfect for me), but for the players perspective, I think 4 days a week would seem viable since there will be (speculation) 8 teams, therefore making 4 matches possible hence 1 match a week per team would seem smart.
Winner's League: Just 1 round of Winners League, just enough so we get to see Bisu raking in all-kills for those avid fanboys/girls and I get to see Flash.... being Flash, the final boss. Oh and also alot of those random all-kills by stats, magikarp, Baby.
Pretty much everything I want to say has been said except for using the Dream League format for playoffs. For those who don't know what that is it's a Bo9 with 5 games of regular PL format, and 4 games of Winner's League format with only those who won their PL format games allowed to play. Since both formats count towards regular season standings I'd say this makes the most sense.
On October 13 2011 13:28 jalstar wrote: Pretty much everything I want to say has been said except for using the Dream League format for playoffs. For those who don't know what that is it's a Bo9 with 5 games of regular PL format, and 4 games of Winner's League format with only those who won their PL format games allowed to play. Since both formats count towards regular season standings I'd say this makes the most sense.
Wait they are planning to implement these in the next proleague ???? O.O
On October 13 2011 13:28 jalstar wrote: Pretty much everything I want to say has been said except for using the Dream League format for playoffs. For those who don't know what that is it's a Bo9 with 5 games of regular PL format, and 4 games of Winner's League format with only those who won their PL format games allowed to play. Since both formats count towards regular season standings I'd say this makes the most sense.
Wait they are planning to implement these in the next proleague ???? O.O
On October 13 2011 13:28 jalstar wrote: Pretty much everything I want to say has been said except for using the Dream League format for playoffs. For those who don't know what that is it's a Bo9 with 5 games of regular PL format, and 4 games of Winner's League format with only those who won their PL format games allowed to play. Since both formats count towards regular season standings I'd say this makes the most sense.
Wait they are planning to implement these in the next proleague ???? O.O
we're just spit balling here.
TBH, if they hypothetically do reduce the number of games and implement these systemic changes, than these are quite reasonable and would be dabest.
The Dream League is ideal for the rookies/ B-teamers of course and it would give more variety to the viewers as well. So that's a good idea and hopefully Kespa/ ProLeague thinks the same.
Although , isn't in the proteams, rookies or B-teamers are used basically as helpers to A-teamers who has games coming up. They are told to do the same build over and over and basically adjust their practice routines to "serve" the A-teamers who are preparing for PL or Individual Leagues. If i'm not wrong that's why either Ret/Idra/Tyler really disliked the B-team system. Because they are basically servants to the A teamers.
So not sure if Dream League will get priority there since what has been mentioned points to the fact that A-teamers need more preparation. So probably all the rookies/B-teamers will be freed up to help this preparation especially if the whole A -team is busy.
Thanks for the updates. Fewer games would be ok, and bo5 would be fine too. I would like WL to stay in the circuit in some way as well.
There is some merit to going back to bi-yearly finals. Why did that get the axe? In the current system, I think the overall season is too long. Every game has more weight, and is more exciting if the end is in sight.
Winners league could be separated from the normal league if there were biannual finals, but I don't know if it would be as interesting then. Maybe just toss in a WL style round robin in each season. I think that'd be ideal.
I dont care if the lessen the frequency of games a little bit....its this long breaks i cant take TT.
I have to admit it always seemed a little odd that the individual competitions seemed to to take less importance in recent years...I certain get the feeling thats what most foreign viewers care the most about...and certainly the stars must bring in some advertising money for their teams by being baller in individual tournaments. BW is first and foremost a game of one versus one afterall.
Park Wan Gyu also performed live at the last MSL finals. he did a good show but the audience wasn't really into it. Didn't know he really supports E-sports, I assumed he was just some random act. sorry T.T;;
On October 13 2011 20:06 tenacity wrote: Park Wan Gyu also performed live at the last MSL finals. he did a good show but the audience wasn't really into it. Didn't know he really supports E-sports, I assumed he was just some random act. sorry T.T;;
i think at least since they did a show together he's always there when bisu plays! how can you miss him haha?! (or you don't watch enough bisu, bad you!) a really cool guy, if only everyone was like that.
BI~G thanks to OP (OS? ;D), Kespa management should pay all those TLers keeping BW alive!
mmm i kinda want to keep Bo7 and as many matches a week as possible. if teams in the premier league can play saturday-wednesday-saturday week for week why not BWers, it's PL all the same? even though Bo7 does drag on forever and i only watch really interesting matches because it's just soo long with no mbc there will automatically be less matches no? have to make up for that and the missing starleague. i'd rather have the rookies in PL proper, i don't think they can grow if they only keep playing dreamleaguers, but getting to watch DL would be sweet either way.
still don't know what to feel. seemed like most pros had lost the will to really fight and PL/BW was getting stale and OSL would be BWs last hurrah, and what a hurrah that was. it's just hard to see BW wither away ever so slowly, and when a fatal strike seemed to be dealt people/KESPA stepped in and somehow necroed it again. xp
If you want to see more rockies, why don't they broadcast some of the internal matches that determine who goes into the A-team? I bet that would be interesting as well, especially for the fans of each respective team.
On October 13 2011 23:03 JustPassingBy wrote: If you want to see more rockies, why don't they broadcast some of the internal matches that determine who goes into the A-team? I bet that would be interesting as well, especially for the fans of each respective team.
You think the team managers are going to allow that ? lots of in game secrets could be flying out probably strats of the team being shared commonly. Other teams can use these as an advantage and may figure out a strategy to counter the said build .
On October 13 2011 23:03 JustPassingBy wrote: If you want to see more rockies, why don't they broadcast some of the internal matches that determine who goes into the A-team? I bet that would be interesting as well, especially for the fans of each respective team.
You think the team managers are going to allow that ? lots of in game secrets could be flying out probably strats of the team being shared commonly. Other teams can use these as an advantage and may figure out a strategy to counter the said build .
There's a 2008 show called HERO X-Files, where they broadcast past intra-house ranking games/practice games from MBCGame HERO. I think that's the only instance when intra-house ranking games were ever broadcasted.
Bo7 is good. Players like Jaehoon and Killer benefited greatly last season from getting regular play due to the Bo7 format. But 2 and sometimes even 3 matches a week for each team is too much. 1 round of WL is also more than enough.
On October 13 2011 23:03 JustPassingBy wrote: If you want to see more rockies, why don't they broadcast some of the internal matches that determine who goes into the A-team? I bet that would be interesting as well, especially for the fans of each respective team.
You think the team managers are going to allow that ? lots of in game secrets could be flying out probably strats of the team being shared commonly. Other teams can use these as an advantage and may figure out a strategy to counter the said build .
There's a 2008 show called HERO X-Files, where they broadcast past intra-house ranking games/practice games from MBCGame HERO. I think that's the only instance when intra-house ranking games were ever broadcasted.
Bo7 is good. Players like Jaehoon and Killer benefited greatly last season from getting regular play due to the Bo7 format. But 2 and sometimes even 3 matches a week for each team is too much. 1 round of WL is also more than enough.
That's what I thought , teams won't risk exposing much of their team builds on tv shows thanks for the info ryo.
I prefer Bo5. I also want to see 2v2s come back, but that won't ever happen ):
I really hope they reduce the number of PL games, though. I barely watched any games this past season because I knew there would just be no way to keep up.
Dream League Format for Playoffs would actually benefit players with very strong Aces, or it can wear those aces out against very deep teams... but I wouldn't be disappointed seeing the best players almost surely getting matches against each other. Just imagine KT demolishing SKT T1's BBF with Flash or a back and forth match between the new team (hopefully Jaedong, Sea, Killer/Baby) vs CJ's Hydra, Effort, Leta and one of their Tosses.
On October 14 2011 14:14 PH wrote: I really hope they reduce the number of PL games, though. I barely watched any games this past season because I knew there would just be no way to keep up.
Yeah, even just watching all the highly recommended games was pretty hard if you had any life whatsoever...but I did it anyway to a certain extent (no life lol). Watching live is especially hard; I just watched VODs for 90% of the games last season.
It's great that the OPs of almost all LR threads contain polls now. For games that didn't feature Flash or some other player I wanted to see, I'd just watch games that over 80% of pollsters recommended. When I was super busy with school I'd have a list of like 15+ games that I'd watch eventually.
On October 14 2011 14:14 PH wrote: I really hope they reduce the number of PL games, though. I barely watched any games this past season because I knew there would just be no way to keep up.
Yeah, even just watching all the highly recommended games was pretty hard if you had any life whatsoever...but I did it anyway to a certain extent (no life lol). Watching live is especially hard; I just watched VODs for 90% of the games last season.
It's great that the OPs of almost all LR threads contain polls now. For games that didn't feature Flash or some other player I wanted to see, I'd just watch games that over 80% of pollsters recommended. When I was super busy with school I'd have a list of like 15+ games that I'd watch eventually.
If you follow Football or Hockey, do you watch every game? No. I can't see how "too many games" can be a bad thing. We all have our favorite teams and favorite matchups. I mainly follow SKT, KHAN and CJ. If OZ plays KT I don't care who wins, so I just skip the games, or I watch individual games between players that I find interesting.
For the sake of the players health though I think they should decrease the amount of matches. It doesn't make any sense to start playing Bo5 though. That would just give more pressure to Bisu and Flash, and it would lead to less snipes, because most teams would just send their top players.
I'm actually really confused with the playing format. From what I can gather, the least season had a shit ton of games (which seems about right considering I streamed less and watched more last season), and now they're trying to limit those games to make it easier on the viewer...
Okay, that part I get, but can anyone explain to me some of the details behind the actual formats/schedules for how these teams play?
Like are teams playing every other day....or are they playing on a weekly basis? I'm confused. :[
On October 14 2011 20:49 Zergneedsfood wrote: I'm actually really confused with the playing format. From what I can gather, the least season had a shit ton of games (which seems about right considering I streamed less and watched more last season), and now they're trying to limit those games to make it easier on the viewer...
Okay, that part I get, but can anyone explain to me some of the details behind the actual formats/schedules for how these teams play?
Like are teams playing every other day....or are they playing on a weekly basis? I'm confused. :[
Nothing is certain yet but here are the problems:
Both players and fans thought there were far too many matches (between teams) last season. MBC dropped starcraft from its broadcasting, so they've lost half of their TV broadcasts. Three teams are gone and are being consolidated (maybe), or being drafted up by other teams. Nonetheless there is only 8 teams next year, so there are less games to be played.
They really don't have a choice to have less games, but nothing is official yet and we're waiting (ever so eagerly) for the official announcement regarding the eighth team, number of games, format, etc.
The best option to take is to keep the BO7 format and then decrease the days of games being played for 1 team/week. Or do it like Bo5 for two days to give chances to rookie when veterans are busy in indis. But the last news is good, looks like we might have another gaming channel joining in.
On October 14 2011 14:14 PH wrote: I really hope they reduce the number of PL games, though. I barely watched any games this past season because I knew there would just be no way to keep up.
Yeah, even just watching all the highly recommended games was pretty hard if you had any life whatsoever...but I did it anyway to a certain extent (no life lol). Watching live is especially hard; I just watched VODs for 90% of the games last season.
It's great that the OPs of almost all LR threads contain polls now. For games that didn't feature Flash or some other player I wanted to see, I'd just watch games that over 80% of pollsters recommended. When I was super busy with school I'd have a list of like 15+ games that I'd watch eventually.
If you follow Football or Hockey, do you watch every game? No. I can't see how "too many games" can be a bad thing. We all have our favorite teams and favorite matchups. I mainly follow SKT, KHAN and CJ. If OZ plays KT I don't care who wins, so I just skip the games, or I watch individual games between players that I find interesting.
Yeah. If you follow team(s) or players, there actually aren't that many games. I mainly follow Khan since Stork and FBH were my favorite as I began to watch. So I would watch a lot of Khan streams/vods, and Khan players in SLs. Otherwise, I don't bother unless I have free time and a game/match seems interesting. i.e. I might tune into a KT vs Ace match to root for Ace as a David vs Goliath story.
Never was someone who just want to see epic games. Because no matter how epic a game, if I don't have rooting interest, I really don't care that much.
@folks saying there's not too many games to keep up:
Yeah, but if you watched BW back in the past few seasons before BO7s and all this, there was few enough games a week where you could stay up late on Thursday and Saturday and see all of the games going on. Keep in mind while some of us do have favorite teams/players that doesn't mean we don't like to watch or don't want to watch other players and other teams. How else are we supposed to find other players we enjoy and such?
Restricting yourself to only watching one or two teams in Proleague is missing a lot of storylines, rivalries, and so on. I'd much rather have them go back to their old schedule (like 08 09 old, lol) but with BO7 instead. It was so easy to watch all of the BW.
Thanks for the update. I think the less games per week is definitely going to help. I had difficulty keeping up with all the games when there were so many new videos every day. Hope everything works out!
On October 14 2011 14:14 PH wrote: I prefer Bo5. I also want to see 2v2s come back, but that won't ever happen ):
I really hope they reduce the number of PL games, though. I barely watched any games this past season because I knew there would just be no way to keep up.
I would love to see 2v2s, maybe in the penultimate set of each match?
It'd be really weird if 2v2 came back, especiallly since no progamers have practiced much 2v2 in like 3 years. the problem with 2v2 was that it was almost always pz vs pz, and i felt like sometimes it became way too for the observer to follow all the action.
although during a bo7 it would become a lot less annoying I think since it sucked when 1/4 of the games were 2v2s (at least for me). or maybe if they just make the maps better 2v2 could be awesome.
On October 14 2011 14:14 PH wrote: I prefer Bo5. I also want to see 2v2s come back, but that won't ever happen ):
I really hope they reduce the number of PL games, though. I barely watched any games this past season because I knew there would just be no way to keep up.
I would love to see 2v2s, maybe in the penultimate set of each match?
I want it to be the third set like it used to be. That was fun.
They should do some kind of league, similar to winner's league where it could be about show matches, 2v2s, special events, etc.
Just one short season a year maybe, to show off rookies or something. Maybe make the rookie tournaments more of a "season-thing" so that while we get to meet and see new players play, we get to see them mingle and interact with the old guard too.
Or hell, like....2v1s against FlaSh and Bisu by the newcomers.
I guess I'm just asking for more things like BNETAttack because I love that show. Or that round table discussion I saw after the match fixing scandal.
Oh, and if they're talking about seasons and dieing support...god it's so blatantly obvious they need a translator and they need an english caster. Or just CCTV and sub dat sheet.
On October 15 2011 05:19 TheGlassface wrote: They should do some kind of league, similar to winner's league where it could be about show matches, 2v2s, special events, etc.
Just one short season a year maybe, to show off rookies or something. Maybe make the rookie tournaments more of a "season-thing" so that while we get to meet and see new players play, we get to see them mingle and interact with the old guard too.
Or hell, like....2v1s against FlaSh and Bisu by the newcomers.
I guess I'm just asking for more things like BNETAttack because I love that show. Or that round table discussion I saw after the match fixing scandal.
Oh, and if they're talking about seasons and dieing support...god it's so blatantly obvious they need a translator and they need an english caster. Or just CCTV and sub dat sheet.
Once again, I'm reminded of another past MBCGame show. It was called "The Rookie". The best amateurs and practice partners played against one another on MBCGame.
I mentioned this back in Kona's thread and I'm going to mention it again as a personal comment (therefore not going to add it to the OP, which should be just news). My suggestion for spicing it up next season is:
Set 3: random vs. random
Okay, so this may require KeSPA to really bend against their iron will. Random vs. random has a crazy element of luck, or rather, a lot of luck-based elements everywhere in every dimension. But come on, wouldn't this be a heck lot of fun? Who wants to see Stork 4pool Hyun's 12nex (I DO I DO I DO)? This is going to require revolutionary changes in record-keeping (possibly the need to report all 9 possible match-ups for each player) if it is meant to be recorded. But that's too complicated, right? So I'm suggesting that this game to only count towards the game's score, but not towards the personal score (even if both players land their main races). This way: players don't feel bad about playing this coin-toss set because their personal records won't be ruined, a TON of hilarious cheese and failures are going to entertain everyone, and maybe random rookies that are good at all 3 races will get a spot. Keep this for WL format, and now you got a whole new meaning to "all-kill."
Just an idea *shrug* anybody got opinions on this?
I think keeping the Bo7 format is fine if they also decrease the number of days. Bo7 AND 5 days a week is too much, but a Bo7 every other day or something is great.
On October 15 2011 05:30 OpticalShot wrote: I mentioned this back in Kona's thread and I'm going to mention it again as a personal comment (therefore not going to add it to the OP, which should be just news). My suggestion for spicing it up next season is:
Set 3: random vs. random
Okay, so this may require KeSPA to really bend against their iron will. Random vs. random has a crazy element of luck, or rather, a lot of luck-based elements everywhere in every dimension. But come on, wouldn't this be a heck lot of fun? Who wants to see Stork 4pool Hyun's 12nex (I DO I DO I DO)? This is going to require revolutionary changes in record-keeping (possibly the need to report all 9 possible match-ups for each player) if it is meant to be recorded. But that's too complicated, right? So I'm suggesting that this game to only count towards the game's score, but not towards the personal score (even if both players land their main races). This way: players don't feel bad about playing this coin-toss set because their personal records won't be ruined, a TON of hilarious cheese and failures are going to entertain everyone, and maybe random rookies that are good at all 3 races will get a spot. Keep this for WL format, and now you got a whole new meaning to "all-kill."
Just an idea *shrug* anybody got opinions on this?
I agree with this idea but no so sure about putting set 3 at R vs R though lol
I think that PL have to add in new ideas. Like sending out who to play at REAL time.
So like no pre-selected players to play on the map. This could potentially increase the drama on the team, coaches saying "By the way XXXX you are going next." This will allow the team to adjust their plan accordingly to the current result. To make it fair on the players, they should have 3 person deciding on who to send out so the decision won't be monopolized.
Also I could just see this, coaches going into the back room discussing strategies with the players and the camera just zoom on them. They come out and player go up to the booth, this creates suspense and drama.
Another thing I wanted for so long is that the players should be allowed to have more freedom in race choosing. For example, if player X tell player Y that he is planning on choosing Zerg on this map (when he was originally a Terran), if player Y confirms and give permission to player X, then this should be allowed. I can see Jaedong going offrace vs Flash offracing at the same time.
More flexibility in the matches, create that drama going, fans will appreciate that. Do we still have that anti-ceremony rule on? If yes, take it off. I've noticed that back in the old days when legends would win a game, they would show GENUINE joy instead of that -_- face (recently watched Jaedong vs Calm, not the Avalon MSL one but after the winner won, I really couldn't tell by their facial expression which Zerg pulled through). When a player is happy, I feel warm and fuzzy inside lol
I also want them to re-experiment 2 vs 2 games. I absolutely do feel the potential in that matchup. Maybe a whole separate round containing it.
Holy, that's a lot of rambling by me. But for TL;DR guys, I want to say that PL/WL needs variability, flexibility, emotions and drama.
On October 15 2011 09:33 OpticalShot wrote: PWG article summarized. Uh, more like 75% translated lol. Please save me from the wrath of Fomos (if it ever happens)!
I truly appreciate your hard work translating that most excellent article.
PWG basically speaking common sense in a diplomatic, unbiased fashion. He seems like such a pleasant, appreciative person, and I wish more fans of esports could be as open and frank as him.
Man, I really enjoyed reading that summary of that article, and I'll be really sad if the semi-translation gets taken down, as there just so much good content in there.
On October 15 2011 09:33 OpticalShot wrote: PWG article summarized. Uh, more like 75% translated lol. Please save me from the wrath of Fomos (if it ever happens)!
These pwg guy I have my respects for him especially these part
PWG recognizes the OGN broadcast of WCG Korea SC2 tournament as an important, symbolic step towards growth of eSports. He is thankful that BoxeR stepped up to give a special commentating appearance in the tournament. BoxeR and YellOw are perhaps the two leading figures that can help this growing scene the most.
He made it clear about his views regarding the governing/managing bodies in the scene. He demands that Blizzard Entertainment, KeSPA, OGN, and other team managers and sponsors to each compromise their greed and work cooperative for the benefit of the scene. KeSPA should have reacted more professionally and promptly to the intellectual property rights dispute. They have to learn to publicly apologize for their past mistakes and earn back the trust of the fans. Blizzard needs to step out of their western world business shell and recognize eSports something beyond simple gaming content. eSports would not be here without the countless years of dedication from Korean progamers, broadcasting stations, and the fans - and Blizzard needs to show that they respect that. OGN needs to play more of an active role in the decision-making process and tie all the relations together between the aforementioned parties.
On October 15 2011 08:07 Hinanawi wrote: I want to see an offracing tournament. I hear Flash's Protoss is pretty scary.
Reach said that Flash's muta micro is the best in the team.
He did not say that. After saying that Flash was the best off-race player on KT, he further clarified it by saying he is the best at offrace Z and offrace P. Then, anecdotally, he said that Flash sometimes beats the zergs on the team at muta micro. Sometimes being the operative word. It's still fucking impressive but he's definitely not the best at muta micro in KT; That would be ridiculous and basically confirmation that KT zergs are completely awful at ZvZ.
Thanks for these translations, OpticalShot <3
Pretty grim stuff from PWG but hopefully it can motivate some kespa people or team staff into making SCBW even better.
I think what we need is some additional leagues that stray away from normal proleague, while keeping the number of games in proleague lower.
as mentioned in this thread, kinda like non-ranked fun leagues but still with prize pools like: 1) random race league 2) off-race league 3) intra-team games 4) forced to play on ridiculous maps (DMZ, Battle Royale) as showmatches 5) map-test (why isn't this broadcast yet?????)
On October 15 2011 12:13 konadora wrote: I think what we need is some additional leagues that stray away from normal proleague, while keeping the number of games in proleague lower.
as mentioned in this thread, kinda like non-ranked fun leagues but still with prize pools like: 1) random race league 2) off-race league 3) intra-team games 4) forced to play on ridiculous maps (DMZ, Battle Royale) as showmatches 5) map-test (why isn't this broadcast yet?????)
1. Would be very viable and actually something they could consider. 2. I'm not sure how this will work; so since players have a declared main-race with KeSPA, they're not allowed to use that race? If yes, I want to see Flash's P, and the hilariousness that is FBH and Fantasy's Z. 3. KotH specials could showcase intra-team games. 4. Definitely workable, use Proleague/Starleague maps from 3 years ago or further in random drawings to prevent practice. 5. Probably won't happen since some teams use map-tests for their exploratory planning for map strategies.
On October 15 2011 09:33 OpticalShot wrote: PWG article summarized. Uh, more like 75% translated lol. Please save me from the wrath of Fomos (if it ever happens)!
The problem is that OGN's schedule is absolutely packed for the upcoming season. With all the other esports leagues being broadcast, there's no room left for new SC events.
On October 12 2011 23:18 sCCrooked wrote: wait there are people in the world who want LESS brood war available?? o_O
people who cannot keep up....its understandable.
I hope this thread doesn't go to the community news section,it would be nice if it didn't go to shit because of some guys who never followed BW comment on something they would otherwise not see/care.
yes alienate the bw community a little more please.
On October 12 2011 23:18 sCCrooked wrote: wait there are people in the world who want LESS brood war available?? o_O
people who cannot keep up....its understandable.
I hope this thread doesn't go to the community news section,it would be nice if it didn't go to shit because of some guys who never followed BW comment on something they would otherwise not see/care.
yes alienate the bw community a little more please.
not at all what I meant,and whatever what I said then is just me bitching about how SC2ers usually take BW news.
thanks to Manifesto7 I don't need to feel that way anymore.
Unfortunately for BW, I think that growth in SC2 scene keeps hurting the brood war scene because it's only a matter of time before the sponsors jump ship (especially since I think that younger up and comers are primarily going to the sc2 scene to make their name). We'll see if the BW scene can at least stabilize, even if it becomes secondary to SC2.
On October 15 2011 22:33 jsemmens wrote: Unfortunately for BW, I think that growth in SC2 scene keeps hurting the brood war scene because it's only a matter of time before the sponsors jump ship (especially since I think that younger up and comers are primarily going to the sc2 scene to make their name). We'll see if the BW scene can at least stabilize, even if it becomes secondary to SC2.
Which sponsors? The current BW scene is sponsored solely by Korean companies. If SC2 remains unpopular in Korea, those companies have no reason to switch over, because the main audience of SC2 are foreigners, and I don't see CJ or SKT looking at foreign nerds as a target group for their marketing. And don't think that the future of Korean gaming lies in SC2. Korea's future are MMORPG's.
On October 15 2011 22:33 jsemmens wrote: Unfortunately for BW, I think that growth in SC2 scene keeps hurting the brood war scene because it's only a matter of time before the sponsors jump ship (especially since I think that younger up and comers are primarily going to the sc2 scene to make their name). We'll see if the BW scene can at least stabilize, even if it becomes secondary to SC2.
You gotta point out to me the growth in the SC2 scene in terms of major non-niche sponsors. More chicken shops? Big salaries are indicative of a sponsors commitment (Flash 400k). Proleague finals recorded something like 8/10 males aged 15-19 watching or some other insane number. Seems to me you are way off base here and vastly over estimating sc2 popularity in korea
On October 16 2011 01:27 Sawamura wrote: Blindrawr I am raging inside again by reading intelligent sc2 post in here what can I do ? please stop me ...................
On October 16 2011 01:27 Sawamura wrote: Blindrawr I am raging inside again by reading intelligent sc2 post in here what can I do ? please stop me ...................
they probly should take it back to 2 days max 3 days a week move to best of 7, there would be bigger audiences and less audience fatigue as it is not so common as to create the attitude that well i could just watch it tommorrow.
On October 15 2011 22:33 jsemmens wrote: Unfortunately for BW, I think that growth in SC2 scene keeps hurting the brood war scene because it's only a matter of time before the sponsors jump ship (especially since I think that younger up and comers are primarily going to the sc2 scene to make their name). We'll see if the BW scene can at least stabilize, even if it becomes secondary to SC2.
You gotta point out to me the growth in the SC2 scene in terms of major non-niche sponsors. More chicken shops? Big salaries are indicative of a sponsors commitment (Flash 400k). Proleague finals recorded something like 8/10 males aged 15-19 watching or some other insane number. Seems to me you are way off base here and vastly over estimating sc2 popularity in korea
indeed if you look at the main (but not major i.e. no large corporations) sponsers of teams some are well known but they are mainly international brands (cocca cola., pepsi, etc) any way while the number of dedicated korean sponsers is quite low and the ones that do exist are usually relatively small companies (keyboard resellers, chicken take away places etc). Also a lot of korean sc2 teams form alliances with non-korean teams mainly as they dont have the money to send their players to foriegn tournaments (flights and such + the logistcal challenges translators)
To a certain extent though i think that people tend to overhype their respective sport likes or dislikes due to personal bias e.g. in australia a rugby fan will make it seem like it is the biggest sport ever, while an australian football fan will do the same ignoring the fact that both are popular but draw their fan bases from 2 different areas.
EPT
