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Read this at SCLegacy(http://www.sclegacy.com/showthread.php?t=259) and I already stuck to the idea a while ago that SC is just for fun, even for casual players, but not sure if most of the SC community was.
Quote:
Hi,
Wanted to mention that I really enjoy your website and all of the great Starcraft content that you provide. In my spare time, Starcraft is by far my favorite activity.
I wanted to quickly get your perspective on playing BGH. Now, I know that all the expert and progamers all consider BGH a newbie map. But for some of us, it's just the map that is the most fun to play. Granted, for my friends and I who play, our profile isn't typical for Starcraft. I'm a 32-year-old senior executive in a large consulting company. I have two kids and limited time, plus I'm old (for the SC community). I know that I'll never be able to micro well enough to be a really effective player on limited resource maps. However, that does not mean that I don't truly enjoy playing SC on BGH. I've hooked up with a number of younger plays who love BGH as well, and we all have a great time competing against others who also like playing that map.
BGH may not take the same skills, or as much micro skills as limited resource maps, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't take skill in order to win consistently on it. Having teams of 3 or 4 just adds to the complexity and management of the game. You may have more minerals to work with, but EVERYONE ELSE also has more minerals with which to use. You still need to manage your economy well, make sure you use all minerals quickly, as well as manage individual units. When I watch replays of losses, oftentimes the losing team couldn't multitask as well as the winning team, managing individual battles while at the same time keeping production going. SC is about balancing macromgmt and micromgmt. There's no doubt that limited resource relies on great micro skills, but BGH requires more macro skills.
The pimpest plays for 2004 were, as usual, great plays and innovations for expert play. However, in the BGH environment, many of those tactics have been used for a long time. I know, as it is mentioned on the website, that there is a huge difference in doing something on BGH versus in a progaming situation. But, I'd like to mention that we've been doing the arbiter/hallucination/recall for over 4 years. Cannon rushes using pylons to block-in have also been used for well over a year or two. Using lings (popping up from underground), volt mines or archon/DA merges to get past walls are also established moves.
Don't get me wrong. I can't even begin to compare the BGH micro skills with those of the true top limited resource players. But at the same time, it's very annoying when some of the SC community looks down upon BGH players. I enjoy the game of SC as much as anyone else and I hope that it stays around for a long, long time. Often, we'll create a '3v3 BGH EXPERT' game and someone will pop in to shout 'You can't be expert and play BGH' and then quickly exit the game join screen. I, personally, disagree. You can be an expert at playing BGH maps. It doesn't mean you'll be any good at LR maps, but it just means that you understand how the manage the game in the context of a specific map/resource profile.
Obviously, this email ran much longer than I intended when I first sat down to write it. But, I'd like to put out there that BGH players are as legitimate a user group in SC as anyone else, and it seems like it's a decently large group as well (at least on BNet). It would be great if there was some content specifically tailored towards BGH players. I don't want this to sound like a pansy 'Can't we all just get along?' email, but I do know that all of us are interested in extending the life of SC and the SC community, so our goals should/could be aligned.
Thanks and best regards,
--T
What are your thoughts?
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the thing is.... yes playing BGH takes skills...... but playing 'real' maps take the same and _more_
people look down at moneymaps because they _are_ worse
its like lets "hey, lets play twister with 2 colors"
and when he talks about how they already use hallucination/recall "strats" i mean.. lol... the whole point it was a pimpest play because it was so impressive in a progame match with "limited" resources, although i prefer to consider it "normal" resources and moneymaps "excess" resources
oh and finally, you really can't be an expert and play BGH, although you could sortof be a "BGH expert" lol
final edit (really): also its REALLY FUCKING COOL that some 32 y/o senior company president plays starcraft and reads up on an sc website
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Money-map games are just watered down normal games. Watered down macro, nearly no micro, and it's imbalanced to boot. The games are nothing like normal games. I can understand not caring about what you are doing, but liking the starcraft atmosphere, but most of us love starcraft because of its speed, strategy, and intense multitasking.
Oh, and the PP didn't include anything new for melee players, either.
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I dont see anything wrong with BGH. Its like Hunters, except with a few more mineral nodes and almost 15x more minerals. Granted, you wont run out for a while, but its still limited, unlike moneymaps where each base probably has upward to 50 nodes each. And BGH still allows you to expand, and holds many aspects that kept it an adequate melee map.
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theres nothing wrong with BGH.
its not twister with two colours, it'd be twister with different colours - there are different aspects to the game play that you wouldn't see normally otherwise.
and with the expert thing... you might be pretty good at other maps and consider yourself good, but you won't be a BGH expert :D, just like a BGH expert won't be an expert on other maps. Its often a totally different dynamic.
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who cares about "skills" in this context.
BGH = FUN! 
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BGH is just for fun
just like UMS
15 infinite mineral nodes, 2 infinite geysers, no other balance changes and boom there ya go
it's just like altered starcraft
now that's a fun ums! cept not the gay gas level one, the one thats purely like BGH cept with price/hp/build time changes
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there are really good bgh players, and really good "non money map" players. to each their own right?
and i do believe that it does take skills in playing bgh...not the SAME SKILL as in non money maps, but to an extent some skill. the first 3-5 minutes are ALMOST the same as play on LT.
u can use micro on bgh.. but the map was designed more for a all out macro battle.
i just played this 3v3 bgh game where i went a LT reaver rush build and raped two people badly, then i forgot i was on bw and some dts killed me (by the 3rd guy)
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I have no problem with BGH, and I believe that the popularity of BGH is one of the biggest reasons why Starcraft still manages to have 30K+ people on bnet at any one time. It is less intense and more forgiving than limited resource maps, while still retaining a strategic element and decent balance, which makes it better suited for a leisure activity, as opposed to a competitive sport.
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you might be pretty good at other maps and consider yourself good, but you won't be a BGH expert :D, just like a BGH expert won't be an expert on other maps. Its often a totally different dynamic.
That's like saying a starcraft expert isn't a pokemon card game expert, and vice-versa. However, in both cases being a starcraft expert requires 100x more skill.
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On April 18 2005 21:20 ihatett wrote:Show nested quote +you might be pretty good at other maps and consider yourself good, but you won't be a BGH expert :D, just like a BGH expert won't be an expert on other maps. Its often a totally different dynamic. That's like saying a starcraft expert isn't a pokemon card game expert, and vice-versa. However, in both cases being a starcraft expert requires 100x more skill.
What? Youre suddenly comparing two completely different things, when we're still talking about the dynamics of two different styles of the same gameplay. And no, Im not taking the post literally, but it still makes little sense to me.
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Baltimore, USA22254 Posts
I don't mind people who play BGH for fun at all... I just get annoyed by the ignorance displayed by some BGH player who consider themselves "good/experts" at the game, when they generally have horrible micro/macro/decision making/etc. I guess I just find non-money map players much less ignorant of the game as a whole. It's kind've like the post that was originally quoted, when he's claiming all the PP have been done before in money maps, etc... he's very ignorant of the level of play that some of those moves were done on... for example, I would love to see him go PvT against GF and be able to pull that move off. ^_^
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BGH can be fun, it's a totally different kind of game though. Different, but still very fun, depends on the kind of player. As a randomer I love every matchup on any map, so I'm wierd in that way. I put my foot down on micro maps, or those fastest possible maps, those are just plain crap.
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On April 18 2005 21:26 EvilTeletubby wrote:
I don't mind people who play BGH for fun at all... I just get annoyed by the ignorance displayed by some BGH player who consider themselves "good/experts" at the game, when they generally have horrible micro/macro/decision making/etc. I guess I just find non-money map players much less ignorant of the game as a whole. It's kind've like the post that was originally quoted, when he's claiming all the PP have been done before in money maps, etc... he's very ignorant of the level of play that some of those moves were done on... for example, I would love to see him go PvT against GF and be able to pull that move off. ^_^
I was trying to say all that in my post, but you did it better.
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Blah. Playing Shogi takes more skill than playing Starcraft. Therefore, Shogi is better.
Btw, though, do you think that there are any virtues that a "serious" SC player (or one wanting to improve) could gain by practicing BGH? Macro, maybe?
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I really think retards who say "I don't mind people who play BGH for fun at all" have really low self-esteem. Who the hell are you to be in the position of "not minding" what others do? Are you like the international referee for all Starcraft-related activity? If kids play soccer in your backyard, then you may or may not mind: it's YOUR backyard. When other people play Starcraft in ways that provide them with a moment of harm-free leisure, it is such a fucking stupid thing to say "i don't mind". The It's just none of your business. You sound like tough guys on a basketball court laughing at people who double-dribble and don't care. And tough guys usually laugh at others cuz they just don't have a life. "What do you think of people who play BGH?" Man, what a fucking lame question, so damn elitist. Sounds like intellectual ghettoism and eugenics put together. Sorry for my vehemence, I love to see people have fun without having to put up with others better than them who say "that's not the right way". There.
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Lol what a fag, senior executive my fucking ass, he writes like a 14 year-old.
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On April 18 2005 22:25 Sky101 wrote:
Lol what a fag, senior executive my fucking ass, he writes like a 14 year-old.
have you ever seen any essays by 14-year old kids? esp. in the u.s.?
besides, a top position like that doesn't necessarily mean anything .. hard work can place you at the top.
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On April 18 2005 22:04 Ammo wrote:
I really think retards who say "I don't mind people who play BGH for fun at all" have really low self-esteem. Who the hell are you to be in the position of "not minding" what others do? Are you like the international referee for all Starcraft-related activity? If kids play soccer in your backyard, then you may or may not mind: it's YOUR backyard. When other people play Starcraft in ways that provide them with a moment of harm-free leisure, it is such a fucking stupid thing to say "i don't mind". The It's just none of your business. You sound like tough guys on a basketball court laughing at people who double-dribble and don't care. And tough guys usually laugh at others cuz they just don't have a life. "What do you think of people who play BGH?" Man, what a fucking lame question, so damn elitist. Sounds like intellectual ghettoism and eugenics put together. Sorry for my vehemence, I love to see people have fun without having to put up with others better than them who say "that's not the right way". There.
you are cool and unique
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On April 18 2005 22:25 Sky101 wrote:
Lol what a fag, senior executive my fucking ass, he writes like a 14 year-old.
I'm sure he gives a crap about coming off as smart when he's writing an email on a whim.
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On April 18 2005 22:04 Ammo wrote:
I really think retards who say "I don't mind people who play BGH for fun at all" have really low self-esteem. Who the hell are you to be in the position of "not minding" what others do? Are you like the international referee for all Starcraft-related activity? If kids play soccer in your backyard, then you may or may not mind: it's YOUR backyard. When other people play Starcraft in ways that provide them with a moment of harm-free leisure, it is such a fucking stupid thing to say "i don't mind". The It's just none of your business. You sound like tough guys on a basketball court laughing at people who double-dribble and don't care. And tough guys usually laugh at others cuz they just don't have a life. "What do you think of people who play BGH?" Man, what a fucking lame question, so damn elitist. Sounds like intellectual ghettoism and eugenics put together. Sorry for my vehemence, I love to see people have fun without having to put up with others better than them who say "that's not the right way". There.
O.K. Freud.
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Maps with limited resources are just harder to play in all or most aspects of the game. BGH is poorer, but it can still be complex and it is different. However, for the following reasons BGH players learn less skills from playing the game
On BGH it doesn't matter if you are "denied expansion" so that strategic part is gone...
You don't need to worry about expanding yourself - there is little or no comparison with the opponent's resources and the need to get more..
The landscape is uniform - the element of holding a ramp is missing, very little higher/lower ground situations
Because of pathway structure of the map, it's easier to predict the placement of enemy forces.
Because of the said pathways, micro is more limited (flanking, spreading units, surrounding)
It is not hard to secure the workers/minerals and make them almost untouchable with cannons turrets/a few units
But BGH can still be fun, and I've played with players who suck outside of BGH but on BGH can give a fairly player a run for his money.There are skills in BGH but playing BGH doesn't train them as well as playing non-money maps. A BGHer loses a lot in playing non-money map but a player of standard maps has a more diverse experience and can much more easily adapt
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On April 18 2005 22:04 Ammo wrote:
I really think retards who say "I don't mind people who play BGH for fun at all" have really low self-esteem. Who the hell are you to be in the position of "not minding" what others do? Are you like the international referee for all Starcraft-related activity? If kids play soccer in your backyard, then you may or may not mind: it's YOUR backyard. When other people play Starcraft in ways that provide them with a moment of harm-free leisure, it is such a fucking stupid thing to say "i don't mind". The It's just none of your business. You sound like tough guys on a basketball court laughing at people who double-dribble and don't care. And tough guys usually laugh at others cuz they just don't have a life. "What do you think of people who play BGH?" Man, what a fucking lame question, so damn elitist. Sounds like intellectual ghettoism and eugenics put together. Sorry for my vehemence, I love to see people have fun without having to put up with others better than them who say "that's not the right way". There.
I really think assholes who have thoughts on the opinions of other peoples thoughts should shut the fuck up and insert many expletives until theres a big block of text that couldve been summed up with the word "opinion". Shit.
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Hmm, I play some team games on BGH from time to time with old school nhers. It's pretty fun but only because I know the guys I'm playing with. It's hard to not have fun with people you like to play with. Still prefer the good old 1v1 on any pro map though, far more in-depth strategically and more reliant on micro/macro as has been said.
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On April 18 2005 22:25 Sky101 wrote:
Lol what a fag, senior executive my fucking ass, he writes like a 14 year-old.
He writes at a level higher than what 90% (maybe 99%?) of adult Americans are capable of. Sad, but true. Unless you are claiming to be the next Einstein, I don't see why you would claim that such a 32-yr-old is like a 14-yr-old.
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United States10774 Posts
On April 18 2005 22:25 Sky101 wrote:
Lol what a fag, senior executive my fucking ass, he writes like a 14 year-old.
If he writes like a 14 year old you write write like a 2 year old
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On April 18 2005 23:57 OneOther wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2005 22:25 Sky101 wrote:
Lol what a fag, senior executive my fucking ass, he writes like a 14 year-old. If he writes like a 14 year old you write write like a 2 year old
and you 1.
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On April 18 2005 23:51 splat wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2005 22:25 Sky101 wrote:
Lol what a fag, senior executive my fucking ass, he writes like a 14 year-old. He writes at a level higher than what 90% (maybe 99%?) of adult Americans are capable of. Sad, but true. Unless you are claiming to be the next Einstein, I don't see why you would claim that such a 32-yr-old is like a 14-yr-old.
Lol stop pulling shit out of your ass. Gosh retard why don't you back up your statistic with something instead of running your mouth like that.
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When I first started playing SC I hated BGH. If you played too much of it, it would obviously corrupt your skills on normal resource maps. But after a while I started to change my attitude about BGH for the following reason: at the end of it all, SC/BW is just a game and you payed money for it and therefore deserve to play it how you wish. It's wrong to try to tell someone what maps they should (or should not) play when it's their own money at stake. It's kind of like going to a restaurant and telling someone not to order their favorite meal. Even if you know that their favorite meal is not necessarily healthy and you personally like other meals better, what right do you have to say to someone what they should order?
Let the BGHers live in their own world. Let the "normal resource" players live in their own world. They already can, and will, co-exist. And if BGHers help maintain the popularity of SC, then so much the better for the rest of us. Long live SC!
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I've always been struck by how so many non-money map players think that expanding is not an issue on BGH. Expanding has nothing to do with increasing your total resource potential on this map, it has to do with increasing the rate at which you gather resources. I enjoy playing 3v3s with friends and family who don't take the game too seriously and I find in big macro games, it's critical to have an expansion up and going by mid game. You simply can't gather resources fast enough at that point to stay competitive troop count wise off of one base even when saturated. A few situations where it's particularly noticeable is if you wall-in as T and metal + mass dship or as P when you are forced into the 3 tech trees because of what your opponents have. In fact I find sometimes I even need to grab a second expansion purely for economic reasons. This comes into play late game when trying to balance probe efficiency and the unit cap. Expanding also has huge strategic value in terms of map control, and even by providing fodder so you can launch counters late game.
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I think lack of space in the main is a good reason to expand on BGH
Anyhow, I treat BGH like a UMS. I find people who go on vitrolic rants about how Starcraft is declining because of money maps to be funny though. Do they object to UMS games too?
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bgh is the funnest map on sc hands down.i still get those streaks where i want to go play some bgh.its where i started 
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On April 19 2005 00:06 Sky101 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2005 23:51 splat wrote:On April 18 2005 22:25 Sky101 wrote:
Lol what a fag, senior executive my fucking ass, he writes like a 14 year-old. He writes at a level higher than what 90% (maybe 99%?) of adult Americans are capable of. Sad, but true. Unless you are claiming to be the next Einstein, I don't see why you would claim that such a 32-yr-old is like a 14-yr-old. Lol stop pulling shit out of your ass. Gosh retard why don't you back up your statistic with something instead of running your mouth like that.
G'night, kid.
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Im dead serious when i say that
BGH is one of my favorite maps haha
i've encountered some people who are actually very good at BGH, and i think the standard P>T>Z>P goes out the window. It's a very different kind of game and I think it does require alot of skill to be REALLY good at BGH. LoL, i remember asking trek if he wanted to 2v4@BGH and he said "No thx, people who play BGH are good at BGH." Its actually quite true. Although ALOT of people suck, i've been fucked over pretty hard by some :D
Nonetheless, low resources do take a shitload more skill than BGH. A very different kind of skill, but a shitload more skill regardless.
Also, i think other people have said this too: Pimpest Plays is implicitly referring to low resource games. Of course people have used arbiter/hallucination before. Hell, i did it on the single player before I could even get online. It's not "someone thinking up a play" way before anyone else, but rather then using it in a game EFFECTIVELY. Obviously, if i donkey punch some 3rd rate newbie in a BGH game w/ arbiter/hallucination, it doesn't really impress anyone. But, Nal_rA using it as THE game winning move against GoodFriend, THAT deserves a pimpest play award.
:D
BGH > LT hah
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On April 18 2005 22:04 Ammo wrote:
I really think retards who say "I don't mind people who play BGH for fun at all" have really low self-esteem. Who the hell are you to be in the position of "not minding" what others do? Are you like the international referee for all Starcraft-related activity? If kids play soccer in your backyard, then you may or may not mind: it's YOUR backyard. When other people play Starcraft in ways that provide them with a moment of harm-free leisure, it is such a fucking stupid thing to say "i don't mind". The It's just none of your business. You sound like tough guys on a basketball court laughing at people who double-dribble and don't care. And tough guys usually laugh at others cuz they just don't have a life. "What do you think of people who play BGH?" Man, what a fucking lame question, so damn elitist. Sounds like intellectual ghettoism and eugenics put together. Sorry for my vehemence, I love to see people have fun without having to put up with others better than them who say "that's not the right way". There.
I play BGH alot and i have alot of fun playing it
I totally see why other people play it for fun and i encourage them to continue to do so
I have high self-esteem
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On April 19 2005 00:06 Sky101 wrote:
Lol stop pulling shit out of your ass. Gosh retard why don't you back up your statistic with something instead of running your mouth like that.
Pot.... kettle, etc
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On April 18 2005 22:04 Ammo wrote:
I really think retards who say "I don't mind people who play BGH for fun at all" have really low self-esteem. Who the hell are you to be in the position of "not minding" what others do? Are you like the international referee for all Starcraft-related activity? If kids play soccer in your backyard, then you may or may not mind: it's YOUR backyard. When other people play Starcraft in ways that provide them with a moment of harm-free leisure, it is such a fucking stupid thing to say "i don't mind". The It's just none of your business. You sound like tough guys on a basketball court laughing at people who double-dribble and don't care. And tough guys usually laugh at others cuz they just don't have a life. "What do you think of people who play BGH?" Man, what a fucking lame question, so damn elitist. Sounds like intellectual ghettoism and eugenics put together. Sorry for my vehemence, I love to see people have fun without having to put up with others better than them who say "that's not the right way". There.
I MIND when you post retarded crap like this. Please refrain from doing this. Ever. Again. I hate misinformation and when people think what they're doing is "the best" or "right". Granted, if they're doing it for fun, who gives a shit. It's when BGH players start saying nonmoney has less skill, or they like playing FPM because it's "more intense and fast paced and strategic where I have a problem. I like this e-mail regardless of if he is pretending to be someone, becuase it was nicely written, wasn't condescending (like the above post), and further, he was knowledgable about the level of Starcraft is played at on the highest level.
My Aunt has some coworkers and they like to play 4v4 games on 256x256 maps, and last year when I played with them I would always bitch and whine about how the big maps took no skill and it took 15 minutes to walk from place to place therefore it was more luck based and less timing. Fact of the matter is, those people just want to fuck around, I'm sure they would be impressed if they saw some progamer replays, when I offered, they declined. "Why would I want to watch someone do something that I can do myself?" It still brings me a little bit of nerd fury even today.
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On April 19 2005 00:15 splat wrote:
When I first started playing SC I hated BGH. If you played too much of it, it would obviously corrupt your skills on normal resource maps. But after a while I started to change my attitude about BGH for the following reason: at the end of it all, SC/BW is just a game and you payed money for it and therefore deserve to play it how you wish. It's wrong to try to tell someone what maps they should (or should not) play when it's their own money at stake. It's kind of like going to a restaurant and telling someone not to order their favorite meal. Even if you know that their favorite meal is not necessarily healthy and you personally like other meals better, what right do you have to say to someone what they should order?
Let the BGHers live in their own world. Let the "normal resource" players live in their own world. They already can, and will, co-exist. And if BGHers help maintain the popularity of SC, then so much the better for the rest of us. Long live SC!
Good analogy, but it's like someone who eats imitation meat sushi when there is fucking roast eel (or the real thing, although some people may definitely prefer the imitation). I had a friend whose brother would only eat soy sauce and rice. I went out with their family to a totally elite restaurant that was really good, and then near the end he finally 'conceded' to trying some of it. He was bitching the entire way back about how there was none for him.
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On April 19 2005 01:47 Day[9] wrote:
LoL, i remember asking trek if he wanted to 2v4@BGH and he said "No thx, people who play BGH are good at BGH." Its actually quite true.
yeh bgh and fastmap players can be damn god on those maps even when they suck insanely on normal maps its like a completely different style
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On April 18 2005 23:36 useless wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2005 22:04 Ammo wrote:
I really think retards who say "I don't mind people who play BGH for fun at all" have really low self-esteem. Who the hell are you to be in the position of "not minding" what others do? Are you like the international referee for all Starcraft-related activity? If kids play soccer in your backyard, then you may or may not mind: it's YOUR backyard. When other people play Starcraft in ways that provide them with a moment of harm-free leisure, it is such a fucking stupid thing to say "i don't mind". The It's just none of your business. You sound like tough guys on a basketball court laughing at people who double-dribble and don't care. And tough guys usually laugh at others cuz they just don't have a life. "What do you think of people who play BGH?" Man, what a fucking lame question, so damn elitist. Sounds like intellectual ghettoism and eugenics put together. Sorry for my vehemence, I love to see people have fun without having to put up with others better than them who say "that's not the right way". There. I really think assholes who have thoughts on the opinions of other peoples thoughts should shut the fuck up and insert many expletives until theres a big block of text that couldve been summed up with the word "opinion". Shit.
Best post I've read in days.
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I've always played low-resource maps, but since a few months, on the request of my friends, I've been playing 3v3 BGH with them. At the same time I convinced them to give LT a try.
After a few months of play, I'm actually BETTER at BGH than them, while they're still struggling to learn LT. I suppose one way to look at this would be to conclude that LT gameplay incorporates in it everything BGH gameplay has, plus more, thus making it easier for a low-resource map player to adapt to BGH than vice versa.
No doubt low resource maps are superior strategically / manual skill wise, but team BGH games are pretty fun, and I'll often play them now. And yeah, BGH has its own set of strats, some of which wouldnt be viable on a low-resource map.
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Well to be honest guys, I'm pretty sure 90% of the BGH and $$$ map players out there aren't even aware that there are real maps, much less organized professional gaming and such. They log onto battle net the first time, and see 19/20 games are "$$$ 3v3 NO RUSH". They assume it's the norm.
I'm curious though, am I the only one who occasionally joins a game called "1v1 $$$ YOU CAN'T BEAT ME", and then procedes to thoroughly trash the poor guy who thinks he's unbeatable? These poor kids are utterly confused by micro, and quite often I'm accused of hacking for dancing goons around.
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On April 18 2005 20:32 MuShu wrote:
What are your thoughts?
he is right.
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Canada9720 Posts
I've played many, many 3v3's on bgh with friends, and it's always fun. I don't know, I get bored of temple pretty easily, these days I pertty much fucking hate playing it. But i've played probably more games on bgh then lt, and i still dig bgh from time to time. maybe the larger map, and more players makes it more dynamic.
skill from standard resource maps will lend themselves to bgh, but the reverse usually isn't true.
but on the other hand, what day said was pretty true. the guys who hang in motel 24/7 playing 1000's of bgh are pretty damn good at it.
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Well, the guy clearly says that normal maps require a lot more than BGH. He also said that he has poor micro and can't do well on normal maps, and thus has got into the BGH community. So I'm pretty sure he IS aware of the skill level of the really high level games.
And yeah, micro'ing in a money map is funny. I used 4 goons and picked on a guy's non-speed lings, and after I pounded him, he's like "Nice Control!!!" Hehehe.
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pro gamer league should pick bgh as official map
2006 Ever League Maps!!
1. Ride of Valkyrie
2. Nostalgia of Nostalgia
3. Gaemagowon Again
4. Fortesimo
5. Big Game Hunters
I want to see pro gamers' bgh skills ^^
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Canada9720 Posts
Better yet they should put bgh into the team league, and a 3v3 section. now that would rock
Reach, yellow, ra v boxer, oov, kingdom? booya
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Nada and Oov would just steamroll over everyone with their 20 fac mech macro..
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There are vods of progamers playing on money maps. It's like korean 3v3/4v4 on hunters but on a larger scale.
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sc/bw is dynamism
money maps make the game static.
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I play BGH to screw around I pretty much play that map twice a year
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Most of the time on bgh, you're either playing 3v3 or 4v4, so its going to be a low econ rush game anyway (unless its NR, which reduces the game by a lot). So the shit lot of resources don't really make much of a difference imo, making bgh similar to the hunters in the early game, which approximately more than half of the games don't last beyond.
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I told a friend that I would go to WCG2005 only if they put BGH as an official map
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yesterday i lost a 2v2v2v2 game
after tons of time
me and my partner vs another couple still left
we lost coz they used mind control to have another race and was with a 600 suply vs our 400
we tried everything, every spell etc but damn
he was so smart kakakak
in some way, bgh players think different...
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On April 19 2005 10:47 Kacas wrote:
yesterday i lost a 2v2v2v2 game
after tons of time
me and my partner vs another couple still left
we lost coz they used mind control to have another race and was with a 600 suply vs our 400
we tried everything, every spell etc but damn
he was so smart kakakak
in some way, bgh players think different...
They can smell fear..
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I play 3v3 BGH on east with friends, It's alot of fun :D
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Yeah 3v3 BGH is fun 
Hey Matt :D 3v3 BGH today?
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On April 19 2005 10:47 Kacas wrote:
yesterday i lost a 2v2v2v2 game
after tons of time
me and my partner vs another couple still left
we lost coz they used mind control to have another race and was with a 600 suply vs our 400
we tried everything, every spell etc but damn
he was so smart kakakak
in some way, bgh players think different...
I lost a BGH FFA once because one of the players was protoss, turtled up, massed carriers, mind controlled a drone and then proceeded to mass hydras out of 12 hatcheries
200 supply vs 400 supply = impossible
but the mind control nuance aside, for 3v3 money maps are the shizzle
3v3 FASTEST is the funniest thing on earth... kill someone's nexus and it's GG
and there's also the funny trick where you float an engineering bay over their mineral patch so they can't right click to gather and send workers to mine...
and omg storm/reaver drops on fastest are the funniest thing on earth, those noobs shit themselves with frustration... I have so many screenshots of people complaining that i cheated because my one templar killed 50 probes
GG!!!
I think money maps are fun but for 1v1 or 2v2 I much prefer limited resources for the greater strategic involvement. In 3v3 this is kind of lost anyway since its usually the team who attacks first wins in a quick mop-up of the other team.
By the way playing fastest map ever is COMPLETELY different than playing limited resource maps, the builds and timing etc, it definitely takes a bit of time to get used to (but nothing any decent limited resource player can't do in two games)
edited many times
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I was playing some BGH the other day. Instead of MC:ing a peon to get another 200 supply, I wanted player A to make only DA and player B to make constant carrier/BC with player A MC:ing player B:s units as they came out to get unlimited supply (exept that limit on total units/buildings). Every single guy I tried this with got mad at me for "stealing their units". This is proof enough for me that BGH:ers are stupid.
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everyone has its favorite,and everyone has its slant.
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money maps are a different rts
an inferior one to starcraft
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takes some skill..most of the pussies who say it is for newbies, are newbs themselves that can't keep up with a decent bgher's macro, and get owned because of it
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is awesome32274 Posts
On April 19 2005 00:05 Sky101 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2005 23:57 OneOther wrote:On April 18 2005 22:25 Sky101 wrote:
Lol what a fag, senior executive my fucking ass, he writes like a 14 year-old. If he writes like a 14 year old you write write like a 2 year old and you 1.
AND YOU 0!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I prefer "regular" maps. But I used to BGH a lot. I also spent like a full year playing "Fastest Possible Map" only. Playing that map is like playing a different game entirely; most strategies on "regular" maps are not viable here, and vice versa. It's almost pure macro. The difference between FPM and BGH: players who only use "regular maps" would never beat me or any other decent money-mapper on FPM.
But I really hate FPM because it is grossly unbalanced, and the people who play FPM excusively tend to have bad sportsmanship.
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I play bgh on a semi-regular basis. I don't pretend its a competitive map. But I play it with my Real Life friends that don't take starcraft as seriously, and its fun. To be truthful, I never would have been able to counter carriers well if I didn't play a little bgh.
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On April 18 2005 20:46 ihatett wrote:
Watered down macro.
What? We have all agreed that BGH is a mucho money map right? So how is it logical that macro is easier with more money, please?
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lol pseudo
just because warcarft 3 is more micro focused doesn't mean its harder to micro
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lol radial
so it's not harder to macro 8 gates instead of 2? dumbass
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are you saying that macro is more complex on BGH than on normal maps?
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On April 19 2005 19:51 radiaL wrote:
are you saying that macro is more complex on BGH than on normal maps?
I think it kind of is, you're getting more minerals and such and there is pretty limited space to build unit producing buildings and since you never run out of minerals or gas, the cash keeps coming and building.
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this thread is hailarious.
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On April 19 2005 19:57 cAtAcLySmIc wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2005 19:51 radiaL wrote:
are you saying that macro is more complex on BGH than on normal maps? I think it kind of is, you're getting more minerals and such and there is pretty limited space to build unit producing buildings and since you never run out of minerals or gas, the cash keeps coming and building.
what you said doesn't help your point at all
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Sorry, it made sense to me. What I was trying to say is that in BGH the minerals and gas never run out so the resources will keep increasing therefore making macro harder than on a normal map which has limited resources.
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Well I personally platy bgh everytime I've been away from bw for a long time, I use it to try and get my macro back, trying to keep minerals <500 on bgh 15-20 min into the game is pretty hard =/.
But BGH gamers are smart also, I played a 2v2 BGH, we scouted and saw they were just going heavy defense, scanned protoss he was just massing sairs, thought it was just to stop my wraiths cause I was going straight wraiths to support mass reaver drops, scanned terran just making factories. So we were like well, lets just fuck around they don't look too good. Couple of min later they come out with mass tanks and sairs for support, totally unprepared for it mass webbed everything while terran tanks pushing forward. You really can't stop that =/. Specially since we fucked around partner had mass reavers they were rendered useless since he coulnd't drop due to sairs and coulnd't move because of sieged tanks and web.
But they can't macro for shit so that will always be there downfall.
~_~
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not hard to comprehend..more money, more production..the more money you have to spend while microing, the harder it is to spend
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On April 19 2005 07:31 Bard wrote:
pro gamer league should pick bgh as official map
I want to see pro gamers' bgh skills ^^
Didn't the pros do a money map for fun game at some point? Like a terran player, I think it was Elky, tried to repeatedly nuke everyone. Not sure when though...
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But if you micro less, then would it be easier to macro? Then again, it's hard to get out of the habit of microing, hehe
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Message me, I'm FukkYouCheater on East for a 1:1 BGH game. Not enough good people play 1:1 bgh.
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BGH....meh , it owns fastest
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protoss has huge advantage on money maps
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"2v2 fastest, experts only"
always laughing at those gamenames on bnet
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On April 20 2005 05:34 poor newb wrote:
protoss has huge advantage on money maps
I feel the same way just because they're easier to macro then any other race. Zerged gets $*#&ed hardcore on fastest money maps because the use of drones in building instead of mining slows them down so much compared to toss.
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On April 20 2005 05:52 jtan wrote:
"2v2 fastest, experts only"
always laughing at those gamenames on bnet
Hehe I prefer the "expertz nr20" games, or the "1v1 $$$ you can't beat me". I sometimes feel obligated to join the latter and embarrass the poor guy.
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